Understand

I am engaged to an active drinker. He's the front man of a band and is very talented with his music. On the stage he shines, in groups of people I'm so proud of him. He makes people laugh and everyone is drawn to him. A true performer.
Is this the drink?
Why does everyone think he's so great if he is drunk?
It's just like so many performers we all loved the Beatles, the stones, led zeppelin, Elvis,the list goes on and on. They all battled with drink and or other substances.
None of them were any good at relationships and family life though were they, yet we all have musical heros that were probably just the same as our drinkers.
There must be some reason why we admire the drunk performer? Maybe it's the illusion of freedom from responsibility. Maybe it's the false confidence they have, or the way they are totally in the moment with the music.
I wonder why they can't put that same enthusiasm into their families?

killerinstinct

maybe it's because they love attention and they know how to get everyone to give them what they want? I don't know.. but my ex was/is an actor and really captivated people, loved being centre stage wherever he went.. but behind the scenes he burnt so many bridges in that industry... lied, stole money, missed appointments, cheated etc.. had a bad reputation.

Liberator4EVA

It's a difficult one. Growing up in the UK in the 80s, the general culture was that alcohol transforms you into the life and soul of the party, grants instant charisma to bookish, studious types etc.

Sometime later I learned the truth, which is that being drunk makes me more appealing to and better able to tolerate other drunk people. But one time when working nights, i came home and had a couple bottles of beer, then realised the shops had just opened so thought i'd leave my mountain bike in for a service before heading to bed. Somehow i ended up really offending the guy and being told to get the F out of his shop, which is not like me at all. I think when a drunk person interacts with a sober one in a normal, daytime situation they come across as boorish, arrogant, insensitive, unconciously violating boundaries etc. I must have been exhibiting the same behaviours that used to irritate me about alcoholics, the ones where they're not doing anything obviously wrong.

Understand

Such a shame and double edged sword that something that is so appealing Is also so destructive.

Seren

'Wounded Bird' ????

Although my ex-husband did not drink, he was what you might call the poor, misunderstood, wounded bird. In my own dysfunction, I thought I could 'save' him. *shakes head*

Hammer

Just my observation. Ever see any Russell Brand? He is a very extreme case of what you describe. My observation is it is a reward thing. The "crowd" or new people are like a new fresh "reward" to the stimulus/drug they are seeking.

But more towards your situation -- NOT partner material.

readerbaby71

My dad always tells me I have "wounded bird syndrome". It used to **** me off but now I say to him, "where do you think I learned that?" LOL. My mom is a wonderful person but has a lot of issues. Their relationship is beyond codependent.

Stung

My husband is in sales, people LOVE him. He's charismatic, and charming and witty and sooooo funny! He's also arrogant but the arrogance is a façade. I know that the more arrogant my husband is acting its usually a sign that he's feeling pretty crappy about himself.

Why am I attracted to him? Because when he's sober I revel in having his attention and focus all to myself. We've been together for 11 years and the vast majority of our time together he wasn't an alcoholic and he wasn't arrogant towards me but humble and self depreciating and made unexpected romantic gestures just because he wanted to be sweet for no reason.

Have you known your finance only when he's been an active alcoholic? My husband has always been a ham and a lover of the spot light, even before his alcoholism people have always loved him. From my own observation, the alcoholism has strained relationships but people still gravitate towards the man that they originally met and were fond of.

HealingWillCome

^^The alcoholic/addict men in my life (af, xah, xabf) each have this in their own arenas.^^ All high profile, life of the party, attractive, charming, witty, funny, charismatic, everyone is drawn to each of them...same as what you describe with your musical performer. I like your question, Understand. It's made me do some self-reflecting this morning.

Just like Stung, I reveled in having the attention and focus all to myself. Pretty flattering, right? When the guy everyone else wants picks you?

And when you're alone as a couple...and they're sober and let their guard down...and you get to see the real man...sweet, caring, vulnerable, loving...well, that's even more attractive to a girl like me.

The problem with a guy like that (for me anyway) is that everyone ELSE still wants a part of him. Which is fine if the guy is sober, HEALTHY, and not attention-addicted. In other words, committed. A guy who can ignore the predators, so to speak.

Xah and xabf were (are) both just as addicted to the rush of attention, especially from women, as they are alcohol. That makes commitment just about impossible.

That's why now, at whatever point a relationship comes my way again, I'll be looking for character traits like healthy self-esteem (not the same as arrogance) and healthy self-love. As in, so much love for one's self that it's overflowing and ready to be shared with me in a healthy way.

Florence

"My husband... people LOVE him. He's charismatic, and charming and witty and sooooo funny! He's also arrogant but the arrogance is a façade. I know that the more arrogant my husband is acting its usually a sign that he's feeling pretty crappy about himself."

Ditto about my ex. Also he was cool and I put a high priority on coolness once. And I like the arrogance. It was a sexy challenge to me.

Not anymore. This was basically the poster boy for "emotionally unavailable." I don't find any comfort in always chasing somebody anymore.

53500

My dad, who passed away four years ago, was charming, funny and could be the life of any party. Especially when he drank. He did not get drunk that I'm aware of but maybe I was not aware. He was a handsome man until bad health took its toll.

His charm in public hid a very bad temper in private. He yelled, a LOT. His temper was so destructive. My mom said she *never knew* he had a temper when they were dating so he was entirely able to control it, he just didn't bother to with his family.

But I can see why she and so many others were attracted to him, particularly when he was charming and attentive. He'd tell every woman in a room she was beautiful without showing disrespect to my mom. What woman does not enjoy a handsome guy telling her she's beautiful? Buzzed or otherwise?

NYCDoglvr

addicts are self-centered in the extreme, self-involved, have enormous egos coupled with low self-esteem. Their higher power is alcohol, it comes before everyone else in their lives. Impossible to have a real relationship ... the reason we're attracted to them is that we're codependent (Alanon does wonders in helping us recover from our own muddled thinking. It's much easier to point the finger at someone else than deal with our own issues. Alcoholics are addicted to booze/drugs, codependents to people.

Bullfrog

Yeah, I totally get that addicts both have huge egos and low self esteem. I see it. But would someone please EXPLAIN to me how that exists in the same person? What creates that? I see it but I don't understand it.

NYCDoglvr

You can be arrogant, think you know better than everyone else, while still feeling self-hatred. They're not mutually exclusive. "His majesty the child". I think the first few years are about growing up, becoming responsible people who stop acting by instinct alone. Doing the steps is what makes the big difference. Alcoholism is a mental illness described perfectly by Bill Wilson in the Big Book: grandiose, selfish, self-centered in the extreme, perfectionist. Denial and rationalization aid our irresponsibility. It takes decades to change, it's a process: two steps forward, one step back. Codependents also suffer from many of these same qualities which is why they get into relationships with alcoholics who are among the most destructive people out there, especially before they stop drinking.

Seren

Ahhhh....an egomaniac with a self-esteem problem. That's how the codependent thought process was explained to me once.

Katchie

What a great question, one I've asked myself many times. I saw something in my husband when I first met him that I didn't have within myself that I admired -- confidence and charisma. I was a painfully shy and immature kid when I met him and he exhibited all I wished I was. I just didn't know it wasn't real; I didn't know that he had a very low self esteem and a lot of pent up anger over a physical injury that ended his ball career that could have been -- something that was very important to him and i think he still struggles with because his brothers made a career out of it making a lot of money. I don't care. I married him not for the money,, heck, I didn't even know who his family was so it made no difference to me! I just admired him. Maybe those weren't good reasons for being initially attracted to him, I don't know, but I'm thankful he is in recovery and doing well. It must have been my own personal flaws that caused me to be attracted.

aborkie

My guess is it's not the drink. Your fiance is just talented and he would perform even better with a clear head.

Understand

You've all raised some great points.
Charisma egocentric arrogance craving attention healingwillcome you seem to have a few xa's in your life. My xh was a alcholic and drug user. Not a charismatic man or a people pleaser but an addict. Seems there is something I need to look at.
I'm not able to attend meetings as I have two babies and can't take them along. If someone could explain the whole codependency thing to me I think that might be really helpful.
By the way!!
Both Friday night and sat night my fiancé had gigs and came home! Didn't sleep out didn't drink drive!
Was there present in the morning with the boys!
Took a bit of pleading before he left, but this time he heard and did! Feels good.
Gives me hope.
I hope he can see that infact not only is he just as good sober, he can get more out of it as he is clearer to remember the whole night. I know the band are always happy when he is not really drunk.

ladyscribbler

Codependency. There's quite a few stickies at the top of the page, but I will explain a bit based on your post. He came home for a couple of nights, was sober and attentive to the family. You think this is because he heard your pleading and is maybe finally "getting it." Now you have hope.
He came home sober because he chose to, not because of some magic words from you. It was a nice couple of days, and now you are hanging future hopes on what is essentially a bare minimum of decent, normal behavior from him. These crumbs are nourishing you because you have been starved for so long. There are men who come home to their families sober every night and spend quality time with their wives and children.
Codependency comes in when you think that something you say or do has an effect on his choices and behavior and when you are so used to unacceptable behavior that those little crumbs and scraps of kindness and normalcy seem like a feast. Also when you choose to ignore all past evidence to the contrary and cling to the idea that this time is totally different. He has somehow changed into the husband of your dreams overnight and will now stay that way forever.
I did that stuff for years, so I'm not criticizing you. Sometimes it is easier to understand something if the examples are drawn from our own behavior and experiences.
It is really tough to get out of the house with little ones. Especially if you cannot rely on your partner for safe, stable,child care. A trip to the grocery store becomes like an expedition to the wilds of Borneo. My kids are older, but I sure remember those days.
Keep reading and posting here. Big hugs to you and your precious babies.

HealingWillCome

It started for me as a little girl with an alcoholic father. He left us. My mom married a completely different kind of man the second time around, but the damage was already done in my little self. I just didn't know it until decades later when I took a serious look at why I was subconsciously choosing alcoholic men in my adult life (looking for someone like alcoholic father who would love me and not leave me.) I'm on a different path now, but it took counseling, educating myself about the illness of addiction and relationships with addicts, and this site. The people here and their collective wisdom were my lifeline many, many times a few years ago.

Ladyscribbler is dead on about the alcoholic throwing you morsels and scraps that taste like a feast. One good night lets you believe you/he are on the right track. But the roller coaster ride won't be over based on one good night, I'm so sorry to say. Brace yourself for the next crazy turn because it will happen. The secret in making it manageable is taking your focus off of him and it putting it on yourself.

Learning about codependency is a good start, and so is reading as much as you can about the illness of addiction and relationships with addicts. You said it best above..."Seems there is something I need to look at." Once you start to tackle your own issues, you'll start to understand the pattern you've developed in choosing alcoholics.

You'll see how it becomes about healing yourself as opposed to trying to fix the alcoholic. Because that will just never happen unless he chooses it for himself. Sorry to say, but it is what it is. We just don't have that power, no matter how much love we pour into a relationship. Healing yourself is where the real power is. And with babies to care for, it's a priority. It doesn't mean you have to stop loving your guy, it's just about learning to love yourself in a healthy way, first and foremost. No judgment from me at all...just a lot of support and encouragement. All of us here know how hard it is.