meggem

I'm just sitting here thinking about how I am going to be added to the list of people that have harmed him and I'm realizing he was always like that. And my family. The only family he said that ever treated him so well. They have become no good.

He hasn't drank in 7 months so I'm confused, why is he still the same?

His parents are no good.

His aunt and cousins are no good because they didn't stick up for him when his parents called the cops on him because he was threatening suicide

His one uncle is no good (they all seem to agree on this)

The government is no good

His job sucks - why do they always call him for the hard stuff? But he will never get another job - just complain about this one

Now I'm going to be no good. I'm starting to see that nobody is any good.

Oh the X is no good because he came home one day and she was completely moved out. How dare she and why was that not a red flag when we were dating - I really thought he was a nice guy that got screwed.

His friends are no good because nobody supported him (back to the incident where his parents called the cops when he threatened suicide)

He's been sober for 7 months - goes to one meeting a week - one counseling session a week - why is he still the same I don't get it.

I hung in all this time just to be no good like everyone else.

Or is there a chance he will see the light and realize this is the best move for all involved (divorce) any chance for that does anyone think?

Yurt

Meggem,
I think that playing "victim" is more of an abuser thing. After reading parts of "Why Does He Do That? and "Should I Stay or Should I Go?", both by Lundy Bancroft, this appears to be a common ploy that abusers use. And yes, the comment about the ex wife, would definitely be a red flag. Of course, we usually discover that after the fact.
Another point that Lundy makes is that even if an abuser stops drinking, without intensive therapy, they are still an abuser. The alcohol abuse is merely frosting on the cake.
This is a good time to practice detachment and to work out an exit plan. (Not that you have to use it, but for safety reasons)

SparkleKitty

The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. He hasn't given you any reason to suspect he will "see the light".

Recovery is more than not-drinking. It is self-examination and a desire to be one's best self. It is not blaming everyone else for everything one is unhappy about.

You don't have to 'get it', but you should focus on accepting it. Sending you strength and patience.

honeypig

Meggem, I thought that if my A just stopped drinking, things would be better. I've since learned that removing the alcohol from the equation is only the very beginning of recovery. Alcohol has been used to numb feelings, deaden thoughts, cope w/frustration or sadness and in general to take the place of pretty much everything.

When the A stops drinking, he suddenly has no coping mechanisms left. No clue how to deal with the world! That's why AA or some type of program can be so important--it helps them learn the skills that normal people have been using and perfecting over the course of their lives but that the A stopped using way back when they started drinking.

Also, you've probably seen many threads here where the A has underlying mental health issues or other disorders, and even though he's not drinking, he is still abusive, dishonest, cheating, or whatever.

It's a shame your A isn't benefiting from the meetings and counseling, but there is not a damn thing you can do about it. Maybe someday he'll have a blinding flash of insight, maybe he'll stumble along a downhill path for years yet. What you CAN do, and what you ARE doing, is to take care of yourself. This has to be a painful time for you, but it's first steps towards freedom and happiness. Like a member's tag line here says, "When you're going thru hell, KEEP GOING!"

Hang in. You'll make it.

Patticakes

This sounds like my AH over nine years ago when he first got sober. The first 12 months he was still full of negative attitudes about everything and everyone. Dry drunk. As he worked his program those negatives started to turn around. He became humble and thankful.

Unfortunately for him, he stopped working his program several years ago. His negative attitudes came back again and after a couple of years of dry drunk, negative attitudes and bad behavior he picked up again.

I hope your significant other grows with the program and lets go of those negative attitudes and begins to feel gratitude. This disease sucks.

dandylion

meggem--there is sooo much more to recovery than just not consuming alcohol.

There has to be a change in the alcoholic THINKING.....which leads to a change in ATTITUDES. This is generally accomplished by working an INTENSIVE program....like getting a sponsor and working through the steps. It takes a lot of committment and a lot of time to accomplish this. They have to work for this like it is fighting for their life. It has to be the first priority in their life.
While not drinking and going to an occassional AA meeting is a first step---it is rarely enough to bring about the internal changes necessary for thriving.

dandylion

CodeJob

My RAH and I take turns. When we fight, it is a fight over the victim corner of our relationship triangle.

I suppose as I work on getting more emotionally open and communicative, I should not be surprised he is taking cover in the victim corner.

lillamy

I read a book years ago about how we "write scripts" about our lives, and how we tend to write ourselves into the same "role" in every story.

Addicts, this author (whose name I can't remember) said, usually like to write themselves into the role of victim because it absolves them of responsibility. It's not really their fault that they're drinking -- it's just because [insert reason du jour here].

This guy (was a therapist) would as part of his treatment get recovering addicts to rewrite their history and give themselves another role. Like, instead of saying "I started drinking at 17 when my girlfriend left me for the quarterback 24 hours before prom" he'd have them say "When I was 17, I had my heart broken by a girl who left me for another guy. Instead of dealing with it and working on getting over a life event that happens to everyone at one point or another, I chose to start drinking."

He said getting people to start thinking of themselves as active agents in their lives, rather than victims that sh*t just happened to was incredibly helpful to their recovery. Also, when addicts put their own experiences into a context of "what happened in my life is in no way unique; people deal with that stuff all the time without getting drunk" -- stopping them from feeling terminally unique -- recovery is easier. (I guess that's kind of how AA works, too...)

AnvilheadII

He's been sober for 7 months - goes to one meeting a week - one counseling session a week - why is he still the same I don't get it.

because he has not DONE anything to bring about CHANGE. parking one's rear end in a chair once a week does not constitute recovery....anymore than sitting a college class but keeping the book closed, not taking notes, not doing any of the assignments. same with counseling...he's not WORKING on issues. he's perpetuating the same mind set. drinking was only a symptom.

CodeJob

Well I go to one meeting a week and therapy usually every other week - I am an absolute basket case of writing and reflection for at least 24 hours. A lot pours out of me in writing and then I see new connections and understandings gradually pulling into a new framework.

RAH, he is a ruminator. Drives me nuts. To be fair though when I get him to talk, he is VERY intuitive. Trouble is it to get him to open up is like operating a pile driver and I get deaf with the effort to get him to open up and on occasion I am like, "WHAT?? WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY???"

honeypig

Anvil, this reminds me of one of my favorite program sayings: Just b/c you go to meetings doesn't mean you're in recovery any more than standing in your garage means you're a car.

I found this hilarious when I first heard it--maybe b/c my A is a gearhead and absolutely DID spend his first several months of "recovery" doing the "standing in a garage" thing, going to meetings, drinking, and lying to his sponsor about it...

Bullfrog

My ex in "recovery" is way worse than when he was under the influence.

NWGRITS

Every time I hear, " he goes to his AA meetings!" I just want to say "whoopdefreakindo." Just a little story for ya: a friend of mine in high school was sent to AA after being arrested for underage drinking at a party. Sort of a Scared Straight type of approach (that worked, interestingly enough). I drove him since his license had been suspended, and he asked for moral support. As an ACoA, I was intrigued and couldn't pass up the opportunity to see what it was like where drunks actually got sober. Or so I thought. The first meeting scared the everloving crap out of me. There was a "longtime member" there who was stumbling around so badly that he fell into the Christmas tree and sent both of them tumbling to the ground. He faithfully attended AA meetings, but had probably never seen a day of sobriety. AA isn't like kindergarten where you get credit just for showing up and being able to write your name. Sobriety means doing the hard work and making changes. Doesn't sound like your AH is doing that. He may not be Christmas Tree Guy (who my friend still credits for curbing his desire to ever drink more than one beer per outing ever again), but there likely isn't much difference in their line if thinking right now.

LightInside

In short, I think, "Yes, it's an A thing," but I'm interested in what Yurt said about it being an abuser thing. Either way, I want for you to always remember that you are worth more than he gives you credit for. I was a queen in my XA's eyes until I complained too much about his drinking. I was so wonderful and worthwhile until one day the scale tipped and I was the enemy. I got treated like poop. What do you think I need to believe about myself? That I'm wonderful, or that I'm poop? I'm sorry to say that it had taken months to break free of a mentally, spiritually sick person's opinion of me. I'm still not totally free of that.

I hope it isn't as hard for you as it's been for me. Please remember that you are good, no matter what he thinks.

Stung

My husband and I use to BOTH think we were victims at the SAME TIME. Truth is that we were both victims to our own bad choices. Turns out if we're both working our respective programs (whatever that consists of) then neither of us are making self destructive decisions and voila neither of us are victims anymore either.

The victim thing is just part of being in a dysfunctional relationship.

lizatola

I know that I played victim to his victimhood. He was always at someone or something else's mercy: the government, his job, his boss, the neighbor's dog, his family, his friends, the landscapers, etc etc etc. Despite his victim mentality, I was just as unhealthy because I'd play the 'woes me' card and complain to God that I was married to someone who hates life and why am I here with him and why can't God change him? I'd complain to my friends that he was always the victim, never realizing that I was being just as much a victim as he was because I was letting his victimhood rule my attitude and perspective.

Today, I know different and I know that I don't have to take on his victimhood. To answer the actual question, though, yes they do play the victim. But, it's not just an alcoholic thing.

Stung

+1 I did the exact same thing. On one of the Codie quacking threads I wrote that "why is he doing this to me?!" has to be one of my better quacks. Lol!

LifeRecovery

meggem-

I think it is part of addiction that we play the victum role.

I think it was part of my codependency that kept me hooked in playing the rescuing role so he would not think of me as having given up on him or "being the bad guy," like frankly everyone else in his life had played.

Part of my growth in this process has been to realize that his view of me at some point was always going to go down this difficult path (me being the bad guy). Me attempting to be perfect all the time was just a way to try to stop that feeling for him (one of my foolish ways to think I could stop him from drinking).

I choose to stay a long for the ride though a lot longer than I should have. The length of time I held up the charade was mine as for me that victum part had been there a long time.

Hammer

And to step back and see the whole Theater Production . . . .

The "Victim" Drama Triangle.

This is the basis of Every Disney Princess movie.

And many "A" Princess(es) -- Male or Female.

Karpman Drama Triangle >>>

Karpman drama triangle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

ladyscribbler

... the Victim is not really as helpless as he feels, the Rescuer is not really helping, and the Persecutor does not really have a valid complaint.

I've seen the drama triangle before, but that little blurb really caught my eye. Especially "the rescuer is not really helping..."

Good insight. Thanks Hammer.