Lilliput

Hello, I'm new here. Have been reading the forums anonymously for some time and found them to be so encouraging and helpful.

I have a question about whether anyone has seen their A's face or eyes change when they drink. I don't mean the usual physical changes, such as swelling, redness, bloodshot, etc. I mean that his or her face changes and turns into something frightening, almost malevolent or evil. Twice, when my A fiance was drinking, I have noticed this. When the Mr Hyde character comes out (he is an otherwise kind and sensitive person), there is a darkness in his eyes. One evening I can recall his face actually changed and seemed to morph into something almost... I don't know... reptilian?

(I realize how this must sound, but I am not kidding nor am I imagining things. Nor am I crazy. I hope. lol.)

I dunno - I was just wondering if I was the only one who has experienced this, and if anyone has an explanation for it. It was uncanny to say the least when I saw it.

Thanks in advance for any advice/input!

SparkleKitty

There can be a great deal of temptation to separate the evil drinker from the person we believe we know and love. Make no mistake: it's still the same man.

Lilliput

Thank you for your reply. Yes, that is too true. I was just wondering if this kind of "morphing" was an unusual thing or not.

PippiLngstockng

Lilliput,

Yes, I have.

Since then I don't buy for a second his nice guy charade, either.

He has a lot less power over me now that I recognize that xah is a slithering beast. I keep him a continent away when possible, only communicate via email and keep things purely business like.

Works pretty well.

Keep your distance, too, hey Lilli?

dandylion

I have not had an alcoholic partner, myself......but, I can say that I have heard many, many people who have-- describe the same thing you are talking about......

dandylion

Lilliput

So - is it essentially that this... whatever IT is... IS who the person is? Even if he is, as I said, kind and compassionate while sober? And is this because the booze just brings out what is already there, inside? I suppose we all of us have two sides to us, but this seems just so marked a difference that it's hard to think that they are one and the same person. Even though we know they are. You know? (Now I"m confused...) lol

BTW my fiance (the one with the morphing face lol) has committed as of Sunday to a path of 100% sobriety (no middle ground or trying to "manage" his drinking). We shall see...

ladyscribbler

Yes, and as long as they are active in their disease that dark side will show itself more and more frequently, and as the disease progresses it will start showing up when they are sober as well.
I don't know if you have a date set, but I for one would recommend waiting until he has at least one full year of sobriety under his belt before you marry. For now, it's a year from Sunday, unless he slips and resets it.
During this time, you might benefit from attending Alanon. Learn some skills for managing your own life and meet people who have married an alcoholic, even for those whose husbands have chosen sobriety, it is a daily struggle.
Good luck.

Lilliput

Yes, the wedding is postponed until I feel confident in the sobriety. Not sure that will ever happen, though, or if that's even possible. If he remains sober we can always be "together"/perpetually dating without marrying. Not sure I want to put myself in that kind of situation - linking myself legally, financially, etc. - when there is such a huge X-factor to consider. Ugh, I did not plan on this. But does anyone? :/

Thanks again for the input, it is appreciated!

firebolt

So sorry you're dealing with that.

I've seen the reptile look - dark eyes, no one home, evil ogre troll look...just GONE.. lol. Scared the crap out of me. I can no longer separate nice sober morning guy from reptile guy, even though I've only seen reptile guy a couple of times. Come to think of it, I've probably only seen nice sober morning guy a couple of times too.

I don't have any other explanation than this:

Man take drink.
Drink take drink.
Drink take man.

-Chinese Proverb

PippiLngstockng

No, I didn't intend to marry a snake!

Just wanted to add that when I treat xah like the beast he has shown himself to be, I am safe. He can't mess with or manipulate me and I never feel guilty or unclear in my behavior towards him.

When I used to think the snake-eyed beast was my imagination, or just the booze talking, I was vulnerable, in trouble, lost.

Your A has shown you who he is. Believe it.

Sounds melodramatic on my part, but hey, you started this thread! Normally I don't try to explain these things to people, but you've lived it, too!

Carlotta

I have seen the "morphing" in my ex many times, I have also seen it with other alcoholics including my best friend who is an alcoholic, he can have half a bud light and his whole face, demeanor and energies will shift this is why I will not be around him when he drinks (let alone when he uses drugs).
I have never seen that kind of physical change on non alcoholics when they have a glass of wine or a beer and not all alcoholics will change that fast and that radically but some do.

honeypig

Lilliput, I have seen the morphing also, and I would describe it as "reptilian", too. It is frightening. Your question has made me remember some incidents from many, many years ago w/an ABF and how utterly terrifying it was to see that happen. I've seen it happen w/RAH, too--not often, but it scared the hell out of me when it did. I know exactly what you mean.

lillamy

Absolutely. And like Sparklekitty said -- it's difficult to reconcile that this is the same person who is, in a sober state, nice and sweet. My experience was that as the years went by, I saw less and less of Dr. Jekyll and more and more of Mr. Hyde.

Yurt

I could always tell when AH had his "sneer on", that we were in for a bad night. Interestingly enough, the sneer would often appear before he even had his first drink of the day. There were other signs as well; the eyes, the hunched shoulders...I knew that this was NOT the Disney Channel!

Worried0810

My XABF used to change! I can't describe it, it was like he had a bad taste in his mouth and that's when I knew that he had had too much. He was a happy drunk up until the 7th bottle and then he would change - it was like two different people. The man who hugged me and loved me, and the man who emotionally and sometimes verbally abused me, surely they couldn't be the same man? But it was! You mustn't forget that - I thought that for ages that it was the drunk BF who was horrible, not the sober BF. But I realised it was the same man, and when he started to do the same things when sober - I knew that the game was up.

Liberator4EVA

AM had a thin outer shell that could be reasoned with, but it seemed alcohol dispelled that more and more often, exposing at her core the same two or three issues she would use over and over to pick fights/upset people with/get upset over. When most drunk it would be more obviously "broken record"-like, but the words never really lost their impact. I guess this is where you need therapy to try and close up your own vulnerable spots.

I've known heavy/problem drinkers who'd turn aggressive beyond a certain level of drunkenness, turn on anyone who happened to be close at hand, and not remember in the morning. Maybe if I drank enough I'd behave like that too, but the problem is I start vomiting and pass out before I'm even halfway to the alcohol level required.

With my mum it was different though. I remember going to visit one Christmas. The day itself was drama filled and chaotic as per usual, but early the folllowing morning she seemed sober and normal, one of those what had become rare moments when i could not detect any intoxication. We had a normal conversation, sharing observations about life etc while she went about the house doing bits of housework.

Gradually the tone changed. It became less of an interaction between two equals, two adults, she started to dominate, tell me what i should be doing with my life and why she wasn't happy with how i'd done, increasingly berating me and becoming more and more hostile. Eventually, as things transitioned from monologue to rant, I started to detect the glazed eyes and slurred speech that told me she'd been sneaking drinks while doing "housework". But the hostility came in gradually before the drunkeness was apparent (and with plenty of practice, i'm quite good at spotting it).

In a way this is harder for me to deal with, it feels like the hostility more closely reflects her true feelings. She never really retracts these statements either. She sometimes switches over to drunkenly protesting "But you're my only son! You know how much I LOVE you ! I WORRY about you!" which don't help at all !

All I really ever wanted from her was for her to say one morning, "Don't worry too much about the things i say when drunk", but it never happened. Knowing that her son had anxiety issues, she must have known this would have helped?

But such a statement never came. I can only think she truly believes and stands by the things said to me while intoxicated, or maybe she's just not capable of making that statement because it requires admitting that she drinks, which is the elephant in the room we never talked about.

HopefulinFLA

Hi Lilliput

Welcome to SR!

Yes, I've seen that in my AH too. In Rational Recovery they talk about "The Beast" which is the primal part of our brain responsible for motivating us to obtain all that we need to survive. RR says that an alcoholic's brain has identified alcohol as a survival necessity.

I do see that in my AH. Dark eyes, he even growls. Eeeesh, it's creepy. But I don't feel though that the sweet kind loving man that he is when he's sober is insincere. It's just that when he drinks, the beast takes over. This doesn't, however, absolve him of any responsibility for his actions when he drinks, as the sweet kind loving guy did make the choice to drink. Just my point of view.

Lilliput

Thank you to all who have chimed in here. It helps a bit to know that I am not the only one who has seen this firsthand. It's the damnedest thing, and I swear I will never understand it. I suppose it all comes back to how the alcohol interacts with the A's brain when that "switch flips" and everything goes straight to h***. :/

One other good thing: I have said to fiance that if he drinks again, even "just" a drop, I will be gone. No questions, no explanations, no rehashing things ad infinitum. Everyone has their limit, and I reached mine this past weekend. I am fortunate in that my folks are willing to help me to get on my feet on my own if I need it. I have a good job but I live in a high COL area, so some initial help may be needed. At least I know I'm not stuck or in any way trapped in this situation. I am luckier than most, in that respect.

Thank you, again, for listening and for the input.

Worried0810

Lilliput - it's great to have your parents there to help you. I packed a bag and walked out two weeks ago and I have been staying with my dad since then. He has been amazing and invited me to stay as long as I need to. I'm going to move to England to be with my mum in a few weeks time and she has said the same thing.
Be sure to stick to your guns though - even a drop and you go. Otherwise he'll take it as free rein and that you don't really mean what you say. And then he'll continue to drink.

Lilliput

Thank you. I am very sorry you've had to uproot yourself like that, but I am glad you have a sanctuary to go to.

Yes I know that my boundary must have "teeth" - otherwise it means nothing. I am prepared for that eventuality - I think. It is a hard place to be in, to be always waiting for the other shoe to drop. I want to have hope for him that he will make good choices and get well, but hope and reality in this case don't dovetail very well.