Manipulation at its best?
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Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 93
Manipulation at its best?
I get a text message from my husband with a picture of the church service pamphlet and the topic was ...marriage and learning to work through the thick and thin. He said it was hard to sit through the service this morning. For those of you don't know, we are separated and I have decided to file for divorce. Maybe not this exact moment but it is 100% my intent as soon as I get on my feet financially.
I felt bad for about 5.5 seconds but I have to remind myself that I have given a lot of years and lots of tears, hard work and dedication to a marriage that he did not because he feels it was fine and that I was expecting too much. I need to start to recognize these things as being manipulating.
I have told him I am done beating my head against the wall and even if that means me being alone, I am fine with it. I felt alone a lot of the time during the last few years.
He would argue that it wasn't ALL bad and no it wasn't ALL bad but when your partners needs are not being met and you just don't care, that chips away at the love and respect.
I felt bad for about 5.5 seconds but I have to remind myself that I have given a lot of years and lots of tears, hard work and dedication to a marriage that he did not because he feels it was fine and that I was expecting too much. I need to start to recognize these things as being manipulating.
I have told him I am done beating my head against the wall and even if that means me being alone, I am fine with it. I felt alone a lot of the time during the last few years.
He would argue that it wasn't ALL bad and no it wasn't ALL bad but when your partners needs are not being met and you just don't care, that chips away at the love and respect.
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Probably just me, but I am sort impressed that you can even do both sides . . .
He would argue that . . . Really THAT is impressive.
Here is what I do when I find myself in those situations.
Hand puppets.
Really, No Joke.
That way I can do the whole dialogue (really a monologue) myself.
My best version is for getting the kids burgers. (being veggie and all)
Used to annoy me, now we have great fun, as I am doing my hands like puppets behind my back where the kids can see and are counting the times we say "no meat."
================
Goes like this --
Hammer: I would like 3 kids' meals hamburgers, no meat, please.
Burgerfolks: No Meat?
Hammer: Correct, No Meat. They would like everything else, just no meat, french fries, and small sodas.
Burgerfolks: No Meat?
Hammer: (just in case there is a language problem) Si, no carne.
Burgerfolks: (now annoyed) You want hamburgers for your kids with No Meat?
Hammer: Yes, please, no meat. Sort of like a veggie sandwich.
(by now the kids are rolling on the floor laughing, as my hands are doing the puppet motions behind my back and they are counting the number of times we have used the phrase "no meat").
Burgerfolks: Ok, so we would just give you hamburgers with no meat . . . .
Hammer: Yes, please, no meat.
Then we wait awhile, and the burgers come out about half the time with meat on them, so we send those back.
================
Like I say, it used to be annoying, but the hand puppeting and counting makes it fun. Maybe would be good around here, too.
Since you already know both sides of the conversation in advance, and all.
Originally Posted by asm505 
He would argue that . . .
Here is what I do when I find myself in those situations.
Hand puppets.
Really, No Joke.
That way I can do the whole dialogue (really a monologue) myself.
My best version is for getting the kids burgers. (being veggie and all)
Used to annoy me, now we have great fun, as I am doing my hands like puppets behind my back where the kids can see and are counting the times we say "no meat."
================
Goes like this --
Hammer: I would like 3 kids' meals hamburgers, no meat, please.
Burgerfolks: No Meat?
Hammer: Correct, No Meat. They would like everything else, just no meat, french fries, and small sodas.
Burgerfolks: No Meat?
Hammer: (just in case there is a language problem) Si, no carne.
Burgerfolks: (now annoyed) You want hamburgers for your kids with No Meat?
Hammer: Yes, please, no meat. Sort of like a veggie sandwich.
(by now the kids are rolling on the floor laughing, as my hands are doing the puppet motions behind my back and they are counting the number of times we have used the phrase "no meat").
Burgerfolks: Ok, so we would just give you hamburgers with no meat . . . .
Hammer: Yes, please, no meat.
Then we wait awhile, and the burgers come out about half the time with meat on them, so we send those back.
================
Like I say, it used to be annoying, but the hand puppeting and counting makes it fun. Maybe would be good around here, too.
Since you already know both sides of the conversation in advance, and all.
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 350
I once asked my counselor what the best way to combat manipulation is (plus, I thought about how people say you can have wool over your eyes about it and I wanted to know how to protect myself), he replied, "Just really know who you are and follow that."
I felt confused when he first said it, but understand it more now. One particular red flag of manipulation is when a person tells you that you are thinking/feeling differently than you really are. For example, "hey, I'm tired and going to bed" - "no, you aren't tired".
When your husband says "it wasn't all bad" and the other things he says, he is speaking from his experience and not yours. Relationships have two people in it. You and him. He may have a completely different perspective on the situation. But you - you have a right to feel completely different than he does, including how YOU felt in your marriage. He can't sit in your brain and tell you what you're thinking, or in your entire body and spirit and tell you what you are (or should be) feeling. What you think and how you felt about your marriage comes completely from you. Maybe he truly felt it wasn't that bad and it's something that could have been worked out - in his mind and heart. This would be especially true if he has trouble truly seeing you as a separate person with different thoughts and feelings and doesn't realize that you could see things very differently. The manipulation from him - saying that you should think and feel as he does. Manipulation from you would be saying that he should think and feel as you do.
I still have trouble with this and am working hard on it. Often times when I'm manipulating (yep, I do it too! I'm human), I also think what's happening is that I feel a lot of pain in the situation and I want it to go away. Sometimes I will try to convince someone to think differently (or even feel differently) but only because I don't like the feeling I'm experiencing when hearing how they've been affected by my behavior. Or, I just don't like the feeling I have based on what they've said (even if it has nothing to do with me). Thus, I believe the manipulation is often (if not always) more about that person and not you. Perhaps asking once or twice is attempting to give the person the opportunity to change their mind, but a third time is when we're trying to change their mind for them. Coercion.
Just my thoughts. I totally understand the feeling of frustration when someone just doesn't seem to get (to understand) that what they've done has hurt you. Maybe they just don't like feeling the pain of it? Which means the response is about their fear, not their lack of love.
I don't know all the details of your story or his, so take what you like and leave the rest.
I felt confused when he first said it, but understand it more now. One particular red flag of manipulation is when a person tells you that you are thinking/feeling differently than you really are. For example, "hey, I'm tired and going to bed" - "no, you aren't tired".
When your husband says "it wasn't all bad" and the other things he says, he is speaking from his experience and not yours. Relationships have two people in it. You and him. He may have a completely different perspective on the situation. But you - you have a right to feel completely different than he does, including how YOU felt in your marriage. He can't sit in your brain and tell you what you're thinking, or in your entire body and spirit and tell you what you are (or should be) feeling. What you think and how you felt about your marriage comes completely from you. Maybe he truly felt it wasn't that bad and it's something that could have been worked out - in his mind and heart. This would be especially true if he has trouble truly seeing you as a separate person with different thoughts and feelings and doesn't realize that you could see things very differently. The manipulation from him - saying that you should think and feel as he does. Manipulation from you would be saying that he should think and feel as you do.
I still have trouble with this and am working hard on it. Often times when I'm manipulating (yep, I do it too! I'm human), I also think what's happening is that I feel a lot of pain in the situation and I want it to go away. Sometimes I will try to convince someone to think differently (or even feel differently) but only because I don't like the feeling I'm experiencing when hearing how they've been affected by my behavior. Or, I just don't like the feeling I have based on what they've said (even if it has nothing to do with me). Thus, I believe the manipulation is often (if not always) more about that person and not you. Perhaps asking once or twice is attempting to give the person the opportunity to change their mind, but a third time is when we're trying to change their mind for them. Coercion.
Just my thoughts. I totally understand the feeling of frustration when someone just doesn't seem to get (to understand) that what they've done has hurt you. Maybe they just don't like feeling the pain of it? Which means the response is about their fear, not their lack of love.
I don't know all the details of your story or his, so take what you like and leave the rest.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,426
a desperate act to try to guilt you with religion into compliance.
glad you saw right through it.
thotful's points about your AH's perspective and yours being very different are excellent I think.
Keep moving forward.
Expect more of the same as it is sinking in to him now that
you aren't backing down this time.
glad you saw right through it.
thotful's points about your AH's perspective and yours being very different are excellent I think.
Keep moving forward.
Expect more of the same as it is sinking in to him now that
you aren't backing down this time.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 93
He came to pick up the girls and while it was civil he was still talking in front of the girls....why can't we try again? Our problems weren't that bad? This can be fixed. I think there is someone else. Why are you willing to throw this away?
Blah blah blah.....I am to the point that I almost have to be cold and mean.
when he was leaving he asked what I was doing, I should have told him that I have a hot date. ok, ok, ok, that was snarky! what is it any of his business what I am doing? He is just mad because he doesn't have control anymore.
Also I said to him that this wasn't important enough for him to want to fix before and his response, well I am here now. Well guess what? I'M NOT! DONE DONE DONE
Blah blah blah.....I am to the point that I almost have to be cold and mean.
when he was leaving he asked what I was doing, I should have told him that I have a hot date. ok, ok, ok, that was snarky! what is it any of his business what I am doing? He is just mad because he doesn't have control anymore.
Also I said to him that this wasn't important enough for him to want to fix before and his response, well I am here now. Well guess what? I'M NOT! DONE DONE DONE
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Posts: 873
This is interesting since I use to tell xAH that he doesn't care about me. He would say he does but his actions showed else. Then he would say it pisses him off when I say that . I guess from your post I was manipulating him...
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Join Date: May 2014
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Originally Posted by Radiant
This is interesting since I use to tell xAH that he doesn't care about me. He would say he does but his actions showed else. Then he would say it pisses him off when I say that . I guess from your post I was manipulating him...
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Originally Posted by Radiant
Im sorry I must of his had feelings stiring in me. My ah use to do stuff like that and I feel for it 100 times. Good for you for not falling for it.
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