He's losing it...
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: London
Posts: 10
He's losing it...
This is my first time posting on any forum like this, but I'm in a tricky situation and I'm not entirely sure what to do.
This is about my brother-in-law (husband's brother, also a childhood friend of mine).
He's been an alcoholic for years now, bits and pieces of sobriety but never more than a few months at a time. His withdrawal is always absolutely frightening, so it's always been medically supervised. He was a police officer for about seven years and, though he won't admit it, I think he's been very traumatised and could possibly meet the criteria for PTSD. He's clearly quite damaged even besides the chronic alcoholism. For example, I've never ever seen him raise his voice. I know that sounds like a virtue but it's very unsettling, because you can see that he's boiling with rage but he physically can't express it.
In the last six months, he's moved into our house (me and my husband's). I was extremely hesitant but he had nowhere else to go, and would have quite literally been on the streets.
In those six months, he has completely lost any semblance of control. He easily drinks a 35 fl oz bottle of vodka a day, and I suspect quite a bit more. He's basically emaciated and always covered in bruises that he can't (or won't) tell me the origin of.
My husband is a colossal enabler, and pays for it all because he's terrified the withdrawal will be fatal if he cuts him off again. I keep asking him how long this can possibly go on for and he has no answer.
What prompted my post (as I've been pretending this wasn't happening for about six months) was a fight I had with my husband this morning. He broke down and cried. I've never seen him cry in the almost 30 years I've known him, and the 13 I've been married to him. He said, and I quote, "I feel like I'm holding a gun to my little brother's head."
I'm sorry for the long, rambling post. My thoughts are very disorganised and I really don't know what to do anymore. My brother-in-law won't make it another year if this continues, and he's only 33.
This is about my brother-in-law (husband's brother, also a childhood friend of mine).
He's been an alcoholic for years now, bits and pieces of sobriety but never more than a few months at a time. His withdrawal is always absolutely frightening, so it's always been medically supervised. He was a police officer for about seven years and, though he won't admit it, I think he's been very traumatised and could possibly meet the criteria for PTSD. He's clearly quite damaged even besides the chronic alcoholism. For example, I've never ever seen him raise his voice. I know that sounds like a virtue but it's very unsettling, because you can see that he's boiling with rage but he physically can't express it.
In the last six months, he's moved into our house (me and my husband's). I was extremely hesitant but he had nowhere else to go, and would have quite literally been on the streets.
In those six months, he has completely lost any semblance of control. He easily drinks a 35 fl oz bottle of vodka a day, and I suspect quite a bit more. He's basically emaciated and always covered in bruises that he can't (or won't) tell me the origin of.
My husband is a colossal enabler, and pays for it all because he's terrified the withdrawal will be fatal if he cuts him off again. I keep asking him how long this can possibly go on for and he has no answer.
What prompted my post (as I've been pretending this wasn't happening for about six months) was a fight I had with my husband this morning. He broke down and cried. I've never seen him cry in the almost 30 years I've known him, and the 13 I've been married to him. He said, and I quote, "I feel like I'm holding a gun to my little brother's head."
I'm sorry for the long, rambling post. My thoughts are very disorganised and I really don't know what to do anymore. My brother-in-law won't make it another year if this continues, and he's only 33.
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 15
Oh wow - that is quite a situation. Your BIL sounds passive aggressive - I live with one, my husband. It IS unsettling. And crazy making.
You do not say why he is traumatized (and you don't have to) but he is YOUNG!
Can you and your husband facilitate another medically supervised withdrawal?
*hugs* addiction is a demon to deal with.
You do not say why he is traumatized (and you don't have to) but he is YOUNG!
Can you and your husband facilitate another medically supervised withdrawal?
*hugs* addiction is a demon to deal with.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2014
Location: London
Posts: 10
Thank you so much for your replies, this is the first time I've really talked about it to anyone that wasn't my husband or psychologist.
I'm shaking reading back over what I wrote because it's become so real. And I feel so terribly guilty for having let it go on this long. Why didn't I come here six months ago???? Five years ago????
I will continue to try and get him into hospital, but he's being so self-loathing and defeatist.
A number of things could have traumatised him (not entirely sure which one, or all, or what). (ABUSE TRIGGER WARNING) He occasionally speaks of a situation he responded to where a young girl had been sexually abused so savagely that she died on scene. I know that memory plagues him.
And yes the passive-aggressiveness is ridiculously hard. I almost wish he'd just go around yelling and punching holes in walls.
I'm shaking reading back over what I wrote because it's become so real. And I feel so terribly guilty for having let it go on this long. Why didn't I come here six months ago???? Five years ago????
I will continue to try and get him into hospital, but he's being so self-loathing and defeatist.
A number of things could have traumatised him (not entirely sure which one, or all, or what). (ABUSE TRIGGER WARNING) He occasionally speaks of a situation he responded to where a young girl had been sexually abused so savagely that she died on scene. I know that memory plagues him.
And yes the passive-aggressiveness is ridiculously hard. I almost wish he'd just go around yelling and punching holes in walls.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
He needs professional help. You and your husband are in over your heads.
Find an ALAnon meeting near you and go!
You can also contact any medical professional and get ideas about local detox/rehab. He is going to die and/or he's going to destroy your husband psychologically. Find help. Once you start looking for options you'll feel better. I wouldn't discuss it with the BIL, just start doing it.
Find an ALAnon meeting near you and go!
You can also contact any medical professional and get ideas about local detox/rehab. He is going to die and/or he's going to destroy your husband psychologically. Find help. Once you start looking for options you'll feel better. I wouldn't discuss it with the BIL, just start doing it.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: somewhere south
Posts: 510
Can you and your husband attend an Al-Anon meeting in your area? I think you both may benefit from the support. It is for family and friedns of alcoholics. You will learn valuable skills in dealing with your brother-in-law. It is so tough to watch someone you love destroy themsleves. You have to remember the 3 C's. You didnt Cause it, You can't Cure it and you can't Control it. He has to be willing to want help and recover for anything to change. Nothing you or you husband do will matter if he doesnt want it.
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
I am so sorry for you and your husband and for your BIL too. What you are living with is too much for anyone to handle... Will your BIL go to the hospital for help detoxing or go to AA or rehab? The stress his illness is imposing on you and your husband sounds unbearable.
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: London
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I've found an Al-Anon not a mile away, it's on Tuesday so I'll be sure me and my husband go along. Don't really know what to expect, and I must admit I'm very worried we'll be judged (not openly, I know all these meetings profess to be judgment-free, but still). We've handled this so poorly, probably exacerbated it to the Nth degree. And I'm embarrassed to say I feel like the BIL might be the worst case.
The last time I broached the topic of detox/rehab/AA or even just a visit to the clinic (about a week ago), he flat out refused. I wish they could just section him to the mental health ward, but logically I know it wouldn't do him any good unless he wanted to recover.
Ugh, I'm so sorry for ranting like this. I really can't stress how much all your kind words mean, I'm really astonished at the warmth and generosity of all of you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
The last time I broached the topic of detox/rehab/AA or even just a visit to the clinic (about a week ago), he flat out refused. I wish they could just section him to the mental health ward, but logically I know it wouldn't do him any good unless he wanted to recover.
Ugh, I'm so sorry for ranting like this. I really can't stress how much all your kind words mean, I'm really astonished at the warmth and generosity of all of you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,778
Wow, I really feel for you and your husband. Your brother-in-law too. Has either of you talked to him about detox/rehab? It sounds like he's pretty close to the end-stages. Don't beat yourself up. There's nothing wrong with wanting to help a loved one. It's just probably better to put it in the hands of professionals now.
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,295
You do hold the power here, he holds none. But you have some guilt trip hanging over your head.
Now if you supply the alcohol, and that leads to his death, but you gave in and gave him a home to live in and alcohol supply, are you less or more guilty than if you kicked him out?
See the problem? You're guilty either way as long as you believe you are responsible for the outcome of another person's choice to destroy themselves.
So if he can be sectioned to the mental health ward, I don't think you would have done him any harm in doing that, do you?
Now if you supply the alcohol, and that leads to his death, but you gave in and gave him a home to live in and alcohol supply, are you less or more guilty than if you kicked him out?
See the problem? You're guilty either way as long as you believe you are responsible for the outcome of another person's choice to destroy themselves.
So if he can be sectioned to the mental health ward, I don't think you would have done him any harm in doing that, do you?
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,778
Originally Posted by BlueSkies1 
You do hold the power here, he holds none. But you have some guilt trip hanging over your head.
Now if you supply the alcohol, and that leads to his death, but you gave in and gave him a home to live in and alcohol supply, are you less or more guilty than if you kicked him out?
See the problem? You're guilty either way as long as you believe you are responsible for the outcome of another person's choice to destroy themselves.
So if he can be sectioned to the mental health ward, I don't think you would have done him any harm in doing that, do you?
Now if you supply the alcohol, and that leads to his death, but you gave in and gave him a home to live in and alcohol supply, are you less or more guilty than if you kicked him out?
See the problem? You're guilty either way as long as you believe you are responsible for the outcome of another person's choice to destroy themselves.
So if he can be sectioned to the mental health ward, I don't think you would have done him any harm in doing that, do you?
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 15
If he is a clear threat to himself or others you can have him involuntarily admitted, for 3 days. I think he can be kept longer if deemed medically necessary. That is a worst case scenario. I have been there. It is tough to prove. I asked my therapist to have someone "302'd".
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Join Date: May 2012
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Maybe I was unclear, or, you read it incorrectly, I'm not sure which, and it doesn't matter. I will try to clarify.
My point was that we tend to feel responsible for the choices that they make and the lives they lead, and in the case of enabling financially, provide a safe warm home, food, and alcohol for someone who isn't working, and is destroying themselves.
Feeling responsible for them is linked to guilt if we don't provide these things for them.
Does that help clear up what I am saying?
My point was certainly not to invoke any feelings of guilt. It was to point out this is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
My point was that we tend to feel responsible for the choices that they make and the lives they lead, and in the case of enabling financially, provide a safe warm home, food, and alcohol for someone who isn't working, and is destroying themselves.
Feeling responsible for them is linked to guilt if we don't provide these things for them.
Does that help clear up what I am saying?
My point was certainly not to invoke any feelings of guilt. It was to point out this is a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: London
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Originally Posted by Blythe
If he is a clear threat to himself or others you can have him involuntarily admitted, for 3 days. I think he can be kept longer if deemed medically necessary. That is a worst case scenario. I have been there. It is tough to prove. I asked my therapist to have someone "302'd".
It's funny (read: not funny, quite sad) how I waited 6 months to seek help, but I don't feel like I can wait until Tuesday for an Al-Anon meeting.
I'll talk to the BIL tomorrow about all this (would love to talk to him sooner but there's really only a 2 hour window between 8am-10am when he makes any sense at all, and I've missed that boat).
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Join Date: May 2014
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Originally Posted by abitlost
I'll have to look up what the policy is in the UK (we're North London). I hope something similar, because I really am getting close to considering worst case scenario options.
It's funny (read: not funny, quite sad) how I waited 6 months to seek help, but I don't feel like I can wait until Tuesday for an Al-Anon meeting.
I'll talk to the BIL tomorrow about all this (would love to talk to him sooner but there's really only a 2 hour window between 8am-10am when he makes any sense at all, and I've missed that boat).
It's funny (read: not funny, quite sad) how I waited 6 months to seek help, but I don't feel like I can wait until Tuesday for an Al-Anon meeting.
I'll talk to the BIL tomorrow about all this (would love to talk to him sooner but there's really only a 2 hour window between 8am-10am when he makes any sense at all, and I've missed that boat).
Actually, I will confess too. My husband had been taking a sleeping pill with a six pack and ½ a bottle of whiskey every day for six months. It took me a while to figure out the sleeping pill part.
He was a First Class Jerk. I thought that I was over reacting until my sister in law called a spade a spade - domestic violence does not always include punches. So I told him I was calling Crisis Intervention. They could have him removed from the home. The pills and booze stopped like magic.
It does not sound as if you have an adversarial relationship going on. Or domestic abuse. Domestic turmoil?
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: USA
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Please take action. Get him into detox then a program but know that only he can want to get help in order to get better. STOP supplying the alcohol (and get him into detox). To be blunt, he IS dying as long as you are supplying him with the alcohol. The bruises show he's starting to bleed internally. His organs will start shutting down if you don't get him into detox.
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I'd suggest not talking to your brother in law about this yet. First talk to some professionals -- licensed addiction specialists, in patient rehabs. Find some rehabs that do dual diagnosis and then keep asking questions and look into them further. The longer the rehab the better; after care programs like sober housing would give him a reason to care for himself and keep working on his recovery with a support system for him.
The rehab and specialists should be able to guide you and your husband in how to talk to his brother. Detox will be needed first, but rehab should be set up before that. At any point in time, he'll have the right to choose whether to accept the help or not. If you flat out ask him, he'll likely refuse, or accept and later change his mind. The disease will try to keep him out. Having guidance in getting there is a big thing. No expectations, just knowing who and how to hand this over to others to deal with.
I'm so glad you're going to Alanon. One step at a time.
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One thing I've been told time and again, is look at what he needs, not what he wants. During family week at rehab I learned that it doesn't matter what gets them there, just that they are there. Some who check themselves in may relapse immediately; some who are forced in may decide to fully work at their recovery. Rehab is just the start. Without alcohol as the coping mechanism, things get really hard from there. The greater the support system, the better the chance at long term recovery.
The rehab and specialists should be able to guide you and your husband in how to talk to his brother. Detox will be needed first, but rehab should be set up before that. At any point in time, he'll have the right to choose whether to accept the help or not. If you flat out ask him, he'll likely refuse, or accept and later change his mind. The disease will try to keep him out. Having guidance in getting there is a big thing. No expectations, just knowing who and how to hand this over to others to deal with.
I'm so glad you're going to Alanon. One step at a time.
--------------
One thing I've been told time and again, is look at what he needs, not what he wants. During family week at rehab I learned that it doesn't matter what gets them there, just that they are there. Some who check themselves in may relapse immediately; some who are forced in may decide to fully work at their recovery. Rehab is just the start. Without alcohol as the coping mechanism, things get really hard from there. The greater the support system, the better the chance at long term recovery.
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Santa Rosa CA
Posts: 240
Originally Posted by abitlost
I've found an Al-Anon not a mile away, it's on Tuesday so I'll be sure me and my husband go along. Don't really know what to expect, and I must admit I'm very worried we'll be judged (not openly, I know all these meetings profess to be judgment-free, but still). We've handled this so poorly, probably exacerbated it to the Nth degree. And I'm embarrassed to say I feel like the BIL might be the worst case.
The last time I broached the topic of detox/rehab/AA or even just a visit to the clinic (about a week ago), he flat out refused. I wish they could just section him to the mental health ward, but logically I know it wouldn't do him any good unless he wanted to recover.
Ugh, I'm so sorry for ranting like this. I really can't stress how much all your kind words mean, I'm really astonished at the warmth and generosity of all of you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
The last time I broached the topic of detox/rehab/AA or even just a visit to the clinic (about a week ago), he flat out refused. I wish they could just section him to the mental health ward, but logically I know it wouldn't do him any good unless he wanted to recover.
Ugh, I'm so sorry for ranting like this. I really can't stress how much all your kind words mean, I'm really astonished at the warmth and generosity of all of you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Al Anon is saving me on a daily basis!
One of my brothers is very similar to your BIL
I hate to say it but I am so glad my brother lives 100 miles away and has no vehicle or I would find myself in the same situation
Sadly there is nothing you can DO FOR HIM
Al Anon, try it!
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