Codependency
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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Codependency
I've struggled with the "co-dependent" label, especially in my current relationship. I don't try to fix him, and in fact, I've never even talked to him about his drinking except the one time he brought it up. From the beginning of our relationship, he'd always said (about him and his life in general, not just drinking) that he is a grown man who will do what he wants to do, and I respected his thinking from the beginning. I didn't totally see alcohol as a problem because I was drinking with him the first 5 years.
In working through what to do with us now, I've been told Codie, Codie, Codie more times than I can count, but it just didn't seem to fit. How could I be if I never complained to him, never suggested he do anything different, never took the smile off my face?
I've been thinking tonight, and I think there's another way to be co-dependent. As in NOT the "I want to be in control of our dysfunctional relationship and fix you" type. Maybe it's more an "afraid to stand on my own so I'll let you get away with anything" type.
So I was just wanting to talk that out. Any perspective that's not from the fixer mentality? And how that might be affecting me? Thanks peeps.
In working through what to do with us now, I've been told Codie, Codie, Codie more times than I can count, but it just didn't seem to fit. How could I be if I never complained to him, never suggested he do anything different, never took the smile off my face?
I've been thinking tonight, and I think there's another way to be co-dependent. As in NOT the "I want to be in control of our dysfunctional relationship and fix you" type. Maybe it's more an "afraid to stand on my own so I'll let you get away with anything" type.
So I was just wanting to talk that out. Any perspective that's not from the fixer mentality? And how that might be affecting me? Thanks peeps.
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Where are you hearing the codependent label - therapy or alanon -- friends or family? Sometimes others can see a lot that we're blind to, which is maybe a protective mechanism in overdrive. Sometimes we're not ready to give that up yet.
There are a lot of definitions and theories over what exactly codependency is, and it can vary on what it looks like. Two common symptoms of both addiction and dependency are denial and minimization. It's easiest to see the full effects of codependency while in recovery for it, and even that can take a lot of untwining. I tend to, time and again, minimize it as I continue recovering. My brain is so used to a "normal" that is NOT normal, it takes a while to relearn things in a new way.
Fixing or controlling may not apply to all codies. It doesn't even need to stem from addiction. My mom has codependent tendencies and there is no alcoholism or addiction involved. My dad is emotionally aloof and at times has been emotionally abusive. They have a seemingly great relationship, but it's out of balance and for a while in the past it was further out of balance.
There are a lot of definitions and theories over what exactly codependency is, and it can vary on what it looks like. Two common symptoms of both addiction and dependency are denial and minimization. It's easiest to see the full effects of codependency while in recovery for it, and even that can take a lot of untwining. I tend to, time and again, minimize it as I continue recovering. My brain is so used to a "normal" that is NOT normal, it takes a while to relearn things in a new way.
codependency
noun (Concise Encyclopedia)
An extreme dependency by one person on another who is suffering from an addiction. Common characteristics include low self-esteem coupled with a high need for approval. Not a formal psychiatric diagnosis, codependency is a psychological syndrome noted in relatives or partners of alcoholics or substance abusers.
noun (Concise Encyclopedia)
An extreme dependency by one person on another who is suffering from an addiction. Common characteristics include low self-esteem coupled with a high need for approval. Not a formal psychiatric diagnosis, codependency is a psychological syndrome noted in relatives or partners of alcoholics or substance abusers.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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Have you read Codependent No More by Melody Beattie? Last year this book was recommended to me by several different people. So finally one day I picked it up at a bookstore over lunch. Read it on my way home. I was looking for "proof" I was not codependent and sure enough not every chapter pertained to me. But a few chapters are now awash in highliter.
You wrote above that your partner's independence comes first. You wrote you never complain, you are always smiling, and you never ask to compromise. This sounds like servitude more than a relationship with give and take. Why do you allow this mismatch? Do you get to do whatever you want to do?
It took me a long time to accept the term. I have much more success dealing with my tendencies at work than in my marriage.
You wrote above that your partner's independence comes first. You wrote you never complain, you are always smiling, and you never ask to compromise. This sounds like servitude more than a relationship with give and take. Why do you allow this mismatch? Do you get to do whatever you want to do?
It took me a long time to accept the term. I have much more success dealing with my tendencies at work than in my marriage.
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Hello TexasAngel!
Sometimes it is a label that does not fit....and that's OK, too. We don't need to have codependent behaviors to benefit from the support offered by Al-Anon when learning how best to take care of ourselves and how not to enable our alcoholic loved ones.
If a label bothers you that is given to you by others, perhaps think about some other word in it's place.
Sometimes it is a label that does not fit....and that's OK, too. We don't need to have codependent behaviors to benefit from the support offered by Al-Anon when learning how best to take care of ourselves and how not to enable our alcoholic loved ones.
If a label bothers you that is given to you by others, perhaps think about some other word in it's place.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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TexasAngel----I understand how you feel about "label" aspect.
This is what helped me with the co-dependency concept and label: "Co-dependency is less about your relationship with someone else---and, more about the LACK of relatiohship with the self". This can show up in different ways--depending on the individual person.
dandylion
This is what helped me with the co-dependency concept and label: "Co-dependency is less about your relationship with someone else---and, more about the LACK of relatiohship with the self". This can show up in different ways--depending on the individual person.
dandylion
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I struggle with this, too, but maybe it's just helpful not to focus on the label but on your behavior. As you said, whether your modifying your behavior in an ADDITIVE way (i.e., doing things to "fix" him) or SUBTRACTIVE way (i.e., denying yourself expression of your feelings and rights), it probably all falls under the umbrella of not taking care of you, and that's simply all that matters. Who cares what we should call you?
I just read something that might be pertinent, and I was thinking of using it as my own road sign. It's by William Dewesbury, a preacher from way back when, and it's really about the idea of dying to the self, and he says:
So, I didn't know what that meant, but it had a footnote which referenced this passage in the bible:
So, to me this seems radical, but a good way to start detaching: it's simply the bible's way of telling you to stay on your side of the street. (Sorry for posting this in the secular forum, but I'm taking this to be a secular direction, for myself anyway).
"Uninvolved in her/his affairs and desires" kind of keeps it simple for me as least.
I just read something that might be pertinent, and I was thinking of using it as my own road sign. It's by William Dewesbury, a preacher from way back when, and it's really about the idea of dying to the self, and he says:
if you press after the new birth, you must use this world as if you used it not,
and live a married life as if you were unmarried,
and live a married life as if you were unmarried,
From now on those who have wives should be as though they had none; [To be as though you have no wife means to stand apart from your wife, uninvolved in her affairs and desires.]
"Uninvolved in her/his affairs and desires" kind of keeps it simple for me as least.
Its_me_jen
Join Date: May 2004
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Labels can be tough.
You're right that there are many different traits a codependent may have. You may find this helpful.
Here are some of the traits often seen in codependents:
A codependent is one who attempts to control others by coerciveness, threats, manipulation, acting helpless, making them feel guilty, or by giving advice. Some other codependency disorders center on prestige, power, possessions, status, or control.
A typical trait is that no matter how hard they work, the codependent is never happy whether their goals are met or not. There is always a need to do something else or do more. An emptiness remains and an anxious feeling, no matter if great things are accomplished or not.
Almost anyone reading the above list might see some of these characteristics such as anxiety or procrastination in their own life, and this is perfectly normal. Some of these traits in and of themselves are a normal part of human existence.
You're right that there are many different traits a codependent may have. You may find this helpful.
Here are some of the traits often seen in codependents:
- Confusion between love and pity; they love those they think they can rescue or pity
- Constantly attempting to do more than their share
- Exaggerating their responsibility for what other people do
- Difficulty with intimate relationships and moral boundaries
- Lack of trust; both in themselves and other people
- Fragile feelings that are hurt whenever their efforts aren’t recognized
- Dependence on at least one relationship, which they will do almost anything conceivable to keep
- Unhealthy need for recognition or approval
- Needing to control others
- Difficulty in making decisions
- Feeling guilty for asserting themselves
- Problems with communication
- Consistent anger and/or difficulty expressing it
- Inability to adjust to change
- Fearful of being alone or abandoned
- Problems with understanding basic feelings
- Low self-esteem
- Obsession for someone else
- The need to be a caretaker
- Chronic lying and deception
- Dependency on someone else for their own needs
- Depression
- Denial
- Procrastination
- Anxiety
- Repression of personal needs
- Perfectionism
- Compulsive talking
- Dependency on over-possessive relationships
A codependent is one who attempts to control others by coerciveness, threats, manipulation, acting helpless, making them feel guilty, or by giving advice. Some other codependency disorders center on prestige, power, possessions, status, or control.
A typical trait is that no matter how hard they work, the codependent is never happy whether their goals are met or not. There is always a need to do something else or do more. An emptiness remains and an anxious feeling, no matter if great things are accomplished or not.
Almost anyone reading the above list might see some of these characteristics such as anxiety or procrastination in their own life, and this is perfectly normal. Some of these traits in and of themselves are a normal part of human existence.
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I was never manipulative or controlling in my alcoholic marriage -- not of HIM or his drinking. But I was controlling about other things: What was for dinner, how we organized things logistically, what the kids wore, ate, did. I think I overcompensated for not being able to control his drinking by controlling Everything Else In Sight.
(Of course, I didn't see this until a couple of years after I left. Back then, I just saw it as "if I don't take control over this, everything will go sidewise and so I HAVE TO, that's not being controlling; it's just being responsible.")
(Of course, I didn't see this until a couple of years after I left. Back then, I just saw it as "if I don't take control over this, everything will go sidewise and so I HAVE TO, that's not being controlling; it's just being responsible.")
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Originally Posted by lillamy 
I was never manipulative or controlling in my alcoholic marriage -- not of HIM or his drinking. But I was controlling about other things: What was for dinner, how we organized things logistically, what the kids wore, ate, did. I think I overcompensated for not being able to control his drinking by controlling Everything Else In Sight.
(Of course, I didn't see this until a couple of years after I left. Back then, I just saw it as "if I don't take control over this, everything will go sidewise and so I HAVE TO, that's not being controlling; it's just being responsible.")
(Of course, I didn't see this until a couple of years after I left. Back then, I just saw it as "if I don't take control over this, everything will go sidewise and so I HAVE TO, that's not being controlling; it's just being responsible.")
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That's exactly how I felt, Missfixit. It was almost like a belief in magic: If I could just make everything else flow smoothly and without a hiccup, then maybe he wouldn't need to drink.
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After my mother's death, I was in a very vulnerable state (codependency-prone thinking that having a male companion would fix me + lack of experience + not wanting to fail + absolutely incapable to attribute my husbands behavior to alcoholism). I have NEVER tried to manipulate my AH, never lied to him to control him, but I did think that my love (or his love for me) could make him stop. I think that my youth, idealism, and innocence were what got me in trouble. And I was convinced I was doing the right thing. But the label did help me understand some things and put them in context.
Oh, and without this label, it would be sooooo easy for me to "fall in love" again (I am a hopeless romantic and if anything makes me codependent, that would be it), but I know it is a biiiig no-no in my case. And it is such a relief to know that it is OK to love yourself first.
Oh, and without this label, it would be sooooo easy for me to "fall in love" again (I am a hopeless romantic and if anything makes me codependent, that would be it), but I know it is a biiiig no-no in my case. And it is such a relief to know that it is OK to love yourself first.
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The first time I read Codependent No More, I actually though it didn't apply to me. At all. And I definitely did not want to be labelled THAT.
I read it again two years later, when I wasn't able to deny anymore how crappy my life had become, and go figure it was all about me! And I was so broken that I didn't care anymore about being labelled. In fact, it was kind of a relief "Ohhh, so that's why I do that! Well now I can start to change it! Whoo hoo! Go me! Codies rule!"
I read it again two years later, when I wasn't able to deny anymore how crappy my life had become, and go figure it was all about me! And I was so broken that I didn't care anymore about being labelled. In fact, it was kind of a relief "Ohhh, so that's why I do that! Well now I can start to change it! Whoo hoo! Go me! Codies rule!"
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SUBTRACTIVE way (i.e., denying yourself expression of your feelings and rights), it probably all falls under the umbrella of not taking care of you.
Co-dependency is less about your relationship with someone else---and, more about the LACK of relatiohship with the self.
Co-dependency is less about your relationship with someone else---and, more about the LACK of relatiohship with the self.
I think it's a lack of needs, lack of good or any control, lack of my own direction. Too afraid to say something crosswise that will cause our relationship to end.
I never bought the book with XAH, but ignoring the label, I decided to give it a shot. My relationship this time is FAR different than the X, but there are still issues. I started it a lunch.
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I don't like being called co-dependent either, although I would have readily agreed that I was a fixer and controlling (totally in an environmental way like LilAmy explained. It's so accurate its creepy to read. I swear I've recited that paragraph almost word for word to my counselor before.) Co-dependent has a negative connotation to me because the opposite of codependent is healthy and normal. The opposite of controlling and being a fixer is an out of control, fly by the seat of your pants type...so I once saw those attributes as positives. Now I just think I have low self confidence amid other maladies because I have some co-dependent qualities as well as ACOA and NPD descendent qualities. Fun times.
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