kiki1988

Hi guys,

I'm very much a newcomer to recovery and I'm the kind of person who is never able to hold their feelings back.

In my first meetings everyone told me it didn't matter that I didn't believe in god or a higher power, that I should just keep coming back. I just don't have a spiritual side. Keep coming back they said. So I did, and I've been sober since the 15th.

At my last two meetings, I've gotten really angry and ranted about how I feel like I have been lied to. At my 12 and 12 meeting on Saturday we read step 11 and I got really angry because it is ALL ABOUT GOT. And it isn't a god of your understanding, or a higher power, it's clearly about a Christian god - look at the prayers in the step or use of words like 'Amen' and 'Our Creator'. I spoke up and told everyone I felt cheated. Some people congratulated me after and told me I should keep being honest.

So last night there were two major themes at my As Bill Sees It meeting. One was rigorous honesty and the other was God/higher power. I spoke up again. I told the meeting I can only do one or the other. I can be rigorously honest and say I think all the HP stuff is bollocks or I can do the higher power stuff but it will be a lie because I just don't believe it. I think I offended some people and I'm not sure what to do about that.

Some people keep telling me the god stuff isn't important and just keep coming back but it is EVERYWHERE in the Big Book and at the meetings. I like going to AA meetings because I meet people like me, but I feel like everyone's just going to hate me because I keep shitting on their path to recovery (I don't mean to do this but I think I have by accident because this stuff really upsets me and then I run my mouth)

Dee74

I'm not in AA but if noones come up to you and told you they're not happy then you're probably good

I did read the Big Book cos I liked the Steps, but I did have a massive God Chip on my shoulder back then - I decided my HP could be Group Of Drunks and that worked out well for me - I had faith in the people here at SR and they didn't let me down

Still, if it bothers you so much, when you get back to the States it might be good to check out some atheist/agnostic AA meetings though if you have them in your area - you might feel more comfortable?

D

Aarryckha

Maybe try going to different meetings?

kiki1988

I'm Irish. I'm going home for a month in May but I'm pretty sure all the meetings near me there are also faith-based.

I try to think of it as Group Of Drunks but it doesn't really help because in the 12 traditions at the start of the meeting it literally says "probably no human power" can help us - but I don't really believe in any other kind. I will never be able to participate fully - read the preamble, traditions, do service etc while this is an issue and that makes me feel like I'm never going to stay sober with AA.

Posting here helps.

kiki1988

I've been to a whole bunch of ones but it is the same people you see again and again as Dubai has a relatively small number of alcos by the looks of things.

Dee74

There are secular groups too outside AA - SMART and LifeRing are both secular and meeting based and active in parts of Ireland - they have online meetings too.

LifeRing Ireland: LifeRing in the Irish Times
SMART Recovery - SMART Recovery UK
http://www.smartrecovery.org/meeting..._countryie.php

D

Notmyrealname

I sing in a church choir. This generally involves going to church regularly. Yet, I don't believe in God or gods.

It all works out. I don't debate theology with people there, because that would be asinine, considering the locale. I just go there for the joy of singing with a group, the music and the fellowship. I get what I came for, and I go home.

kiki1988

My issue isn't so much about debating theology... It's more that I don't see how the programme can work for someone who doesn't believe in such an important aspect of it and that scares me and makes me think i won't be able to stay sober.

diffingo911

Something is Manipulating the Universe. Scientists are calling it "Dark Matter" and
"Dark Energy"-Something that doesn't fit into their Mathematics and Equations.

Whatever it is, I "Certainly" didn't make the Sun Rise today...It was a POWER Greater than Myself that did...I was Atheist for Many Years. But just like the Scientists have, I HAD to realize that I did not make all of this...the Universe, Gravity, all the Animals...NOPE Not Me-Something Greater than Myself did. We can call it Evolution/Fate/Dark Energy - Whatever "IT" is, it's Beyond "ME" and that seems to be the whole Point, really - Getting out of One's "Self" and the Act of Reaching Out...

I Hope this Helps...

kiki1988

Thanks Diffingo911,

A few people have tried to explain it to me like this and to an extent it does help. But as I said earlier, the book is SO grounded in Christianity that it makes it really hard for me to relate it to the universe, or dark matter or any other kind of power - which of course, is greater than my own.

LadyBlue0527

As much as I might not agree with some aspects of the program I have a tremendous amount of respect for the fact that it's helped as many people as it has. Also, no one ever told me when I started going that this program was going to be tailored to my needs. What doesn't make sense to me in a meeting might to someone else. Again, all these people are not there to make me happy, that's something that I need to do for myself.

So I came to the conclusion that where I have every right to have my own opinion I decided to keep my mouth shut and listen. I learn from what I can and if it doesn't apply so be it. I'm happy that it might help someone else.

Not everyone's journey is mine and I don't expect them to adhere to what I believe. Nor do I have the right to pass judgement on what they think their journey is.

I'm of the same exact mindset as you. I do feel that in many circumstances the meetings and steps are referring to what some would perceive as the Christian God. So what? That doesn't mean that I have to make it that for me.

There are pieces of this program that are life changing and so extremely valuable and they've helped me remain sober and lead a better life for almost 10 months. It helped me to find the true source of my anger and why I spent so much time worrying about what everyone else was doing and thinking rather than what I needed to do. Focus on my own recovery.

Maybe AA isn't for you?

Sparkos

Hi Kiki.
I've been to many AA meetings and a residential 12 step based recovery program. In the beginning I tried to accept the higher power aspect of the God bit and found that I simply could not. It was a major stumbling block for me and I, like you, found myself rebelling against the whole language and ethos of the programme.
This was a real shame because on an intellectual basis I could see the benefits, but could not commit myself on a spiritual nor emotional level.
I would suggest you keep trying AA. Even being in the company of fellow recoverers and sharing is beneficial.
For me, I found that in the end it was too frustrating and I would get angry and rebellious and use that as a relapse excuse.
But, AA isn't the only path. As Dee suggested there are other groups.
For me I found AVRT, meditation, mindfulness, acceptance, regular posting and reading on SR and joining the "Class of March 2014" to be of huge benefit.
I genuinely think I've found something that works for me personally. But, we're all different and Iknow that you will find a path that's suitable for your recovery.
Good luck with everything.

kiki1988

After the meeting I felt really upset that I might have offended others. That's not the kind of person I am but I just spoke from the heart. I hadn't intended to speak last night, I wanted to just come and listen, but another guy started talking about it so I couldn't not.

I respect AA and how it is kept so many people sober, but I think you might be right that it is not for me. But that leaves me back at the worst part of trying to sober up - the lonliness. I just wish there were alternatives here. I'm seeing a therapist tomorrow so I think that will help.

GreenEggsAndHam

This is great and really how I think of my higher power. I call it an "energy" as I have no better way of explaining it. My sponsor and I have a little fun and call her Mother Energy. My friend in recovery says he feels I will one day come to call this energy God for lack of another word. I'm fine with that, but HP is where I'm at now. I am keeping an open mind this time and it's made the WORLD of a difference.

Some people go on about God, some mention Jesus, whatever. We all have a different understanding of our HP and I don't have to relate to theirs, only mine.

(I thought exactly the same way as you, kiki, when I first went to AA many months ago)

CAPTAINZING2000

Hate to burst your bubble but you're not powerful enough to control the way I feel.

As far as a AA being a Christian group, you don't have to pray. That's your right not to pray in something you don't believe in.
If I were you though, I'd be open to suggestions in how to get sober an stay sober.
Wishing you all the best

LadyBlue0527

There are alternatives Kiki but I urge you not to give up on AA if you think it's helping you. Seriously. There's nothing wrong with having questions. Just don't throw the baby out with the bathwater if you think that AA is helping you. Some would tell you that it's all or nothing with this program. I'm living proof that's not the truth. This program has changed my life for the better even if my thinking is the same as yours.

Still, it wouldn't hurt to do some research for yourself. Have you checked out the forums here for other methods?

By the way, SR is a must have!

I wish you the best no matter what you decide.

kiki1988

I really wish people would stop giving me this kind of advice because it is really not helpful (no offence)

I can't choose to believe in God any more than you could choose not to. I got down on my knees last night because that is what they tell you to do and I felt just plain ridiculous.

LadyBlue0527

I'm just going to stop after this post but I wanted you to know that I also don't do this. My higher power doesn't require that I get on my knees in order to communicate. Heck, we communicate on and off all day long!

This is exactly what I mean by not throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

kiki1988

I guess the reason I don't want to go back now is half fear that I have alienated them and half my own pride because I feel stupid for what I said. I mean, I'm fine with saying my piece, but I feel like I did it in a really over the top and stupid way.

I wish there were other newcomers at my meetings, everyone already seems so settled in sobriety and sure of themselves and they all know each other.

instant

My God was light and reflections- I was guided by the phases of the moon- still am

I don't go to AA

My God don't speak English