Minimizing your painful experiences

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Old 03-19-2014, 09:38 AM
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Minimizing your painful experiences

Do you do it? Emotional? Physical?

It occurred to me this morning as I started crying when I couldn't get my leg into the bathtub to take a shower -- I fight with recurring bouts of sciatica -- that how I handle physical pain is a remnant of my marriage to an A.

It was actually my new husband who connected the dots for me. He told me I was ashen-faced and looked terrible, and I insisted I was going to go to work because I wasn't sure if I was really in as much pain as I thought I was.

His take on it was this: "You spent 20 years pushing down your emotions and your emotional pain, and probably your physical pain as well. And now that you are feeling those emotions again, you don't trust your own judgment and experiences. You want someone else to tell you whether you are in enough pain to warrant not doing what's expected of you today. Only you can do that. And you need to trust your own experiences. But I can tell you the way you look, anyone can see you're in pain."

He said "It's not YOU telling you the pain is not bad enough. It's your ex."

I hadn't thought of it that way but I do think he's making a valid point. Because the voices in my head say, "What a pathetic loser you are. A little bit of tweaking your back and you're behaving like you lost a limb or something. You need to woman up and get your rear in gear. A little pain never killed anyone. You're totally exaggerating and your pain is ridiculous."

Hm. Interesting. I kind of recognize that voice. And it's not mine.

I've accepted and worked on the fact that AXH's voice ridiculed my emotional pain, and when those voices pop up, I can tell them to shove it. But physical pain? It never occurred to me that I'm pooh-poohing that as well because that's what he would do.
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:46 AM
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when i stopped drinking i was so worn out that i don't think anything could hurt me anymore...stuff that would ruin my world is now just like meh..thats pretty much what I expect. I always saw my emotional pain as my fault..and how dare i have it..i still very much feel that way..i was taught that i deserve to suffer..its pretty deep in my sub conscious.
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:48 AM
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I always saw my emotional pain as my fault..and how dare i have it..i still very much feel that way..i was taught that i deserve to suffer..its pretty deep in my sub conscious.
Cabo, that made me shiver. You put your finger right on it. I deserve to suffer. That's it. Thank you.
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:55 AM
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O absolutely. Even over the weekend after all the blow up with my AH, my daughter said, "Mom, you need to talk about this so you get it out. You cannot be ok."

Even now, I am willing to overlook all of my pain and just want to have a good relationship with him so we can coparent together. One thing I won't do however is ever go back, no way.

Luckily I have a wide support system and they know I stuff my feelings alot so they stay on me about it, and of course that helps.

I hope your leg feels better. My sister is a highway patrol woman and since she is in the car so much she suffers with the same thing. I know it is quite painful. Take care of yourself, physical and emoational my friend!
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:00 AM
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At review time, twice a year for me, one or two of the sixteen people I support makes the comment, "She seems to take a lot of sick days."

Never mind that there are multiple pages of positive comments besides that one, this is what I focus on. First off, I sure do take sick days...when I'm sick. I also never take as many days off as I'm allowed (i.e., I always end the year with unused PTO, which does not roll over and which I am not compensated for). No matter how many times my folks are reminded of these things, I still get the same comments.

To me, this is a society issue on top of being part of the aftermath of abuse and neglect. The message is that doing what you need to do to take care of yourself inherently means letting down those who count on you. In my case, the negative review reinforces the long-held belief that I am a disappointment and a failure. You know, because I stayed home for a week when I had the flu.
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:03 AM
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I've accepted and worked on the fact that AXH's voice ridiculed my emotional pain, and when those voices pop up, I can tell them to shove it. But physical pain? It never occurred to me that I'm pooh-poohing that as well because that's what he would do.

For me it's my mom's voice ridiculing and minimizing. Since I was little I was called a whiner, a worthless brat, or told I was exaggerating and lying whenever I dared to complain about anything. "Nothing in YOUR soft little life is that bad!" and "I'll give you something to cry about!" were familiar refrains to my childish ears. Only SHE truly knew what pain and suffering were and she was always ready to remind me if I forgot and showed I was hurting.
I still question myself- Am I milking it? Am I just trying to get attention? Is it really as bad as I think it is? I too try to "power through" things when I know I am truly hurting, just because I hear that voice (her voice) trying to make me doubt my reality.
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:46 AM
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I'm in a book study on "How Al-Anon Works" and the topic this past week was self-care. My confession was that while my RAW was drinking I didn't go to the dentist for 13 years. Lucky for me, I've (still) got good teeth! But I've spent the last 4 years working on taking better care of myself one tiny step and one day at a time.

There is a phrase in the Al-anon Welcome that says: "without such spiritual help, living with an alcoholic is too much for most of us." I believe that statement is true without reservation.

"That voice" that we hear inside us that's "not us"? Well, it really is us. Just another of the (many?) dysfunctional behaviors we've adopted and internalized to deal with the crazy, crazy world we live in. The good news is that there is a better way of living, there is recovery. But that means there is work to be done. Action to be taken.

I really like the analogy of putting the oxygen mask on ourselves first if the airplane loses pressure, because we can't care for anyone else until we've taken care of ourselves. We have to learn that its OK to take care of ourselves first. So...what have you done for yourself lately?
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:53 AM
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I've known for a long time that I push down the emotional pain, but it had honestly never occurred to me that I pushed down physical pain, as well, until a couple of years ago when I was relating to my new doctor the story of how I drove myself to the emergency room with appendicitis 6 years earlier.
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:53 AM
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This whole thread is really moving and this post below nails it for me. Even in the middle of my divorce my family was angry with me and not at all supportive and I was and continue to be mocked like you describe below lady scribbler....

Expressing any hurt or pain just results (or did with my family and xAH) in being told I'm playing victim and that I have no idea how hard others lives are...

I still shy away from letting friends know how I actually am because I fear that once I let it out I won't be able to hold it all in again if that makes any sense...


Originally Posted by ladyscribbler View Post
I've accepted and worked on the fact that AXH's voice ridiculed my emotional pain, and when those voices pop up, I can tell them to shove it. But physical pain? It never occurred to me that I'm pooh-poohing that as well because that's what he would do.

For me it's my mom's voice ridiculing and minimizing. Since I was little I was called a whiner, a worthless brat, or told I was exaggerating and lying whenever I dared to complain about anything. "Nothing in YOUR soft little life is that bad!" and "I'll give you something to cry about!" were familiar refrains to my childish ears. Only SHE truly knew what pain and suffering were and she was always ready to remind me if I forgot and showed I was hurting.
I still question myself- Am I milking it? Am I just trying to get attention? Is it really as bad as I think it is? I too try to "power through" things when I know I am truly hurting, just because I hear that voice (her voice) trying to make me doubt my reality.
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ladyscribbler View Post
For me it's my mom's voice ridiculing and minimizing. Since I was little I was called a whiner, a worthless brat, or told I was exaggerating and lying whenever I dared to complain about anything. "Nothing in YOUR soft little life is that bad!" and "I'll give you something to cry about!" were familiar refrains to my childish ears. Only SHE truly knew what pain and suffering were and she was always ready to remind me if I forgot and showed I was hurting.
My mom has BPD...and I ALWAYS heard that, "I'll give you something to cry about!" line. I was a fitness instructor for a year and a half until I simply HAD to take a break, and then they replaced me. During that year and a half I taught with a hairline fracture in my heel - teaching ZUMBA while wearing a "boot". I used to finish my class and then cry all the way home because I was in so much pain.

Now I work harder at taking care of myself...I take days off when I need to, and feel less and less guilty when I do this (although I still feel guilty). Obviously this is something I still need to work on.
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:59 AM
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My mom has BPD too and trained me well to marry an abusive alcoholic and blame myself...

I would be VERY interested in research about how many children of BPD mothers get into abusive relationships. My guess is its high.

Originally Posted by Mellybug View Post
My mom has BPD...and I ALWAYS heard that, "I'll give you something to cry about!" line. I was a fitness instructor for a year and a half until I simply HAD to take a break, and then they replaced me. During that year and a half I taught with a hairline fracture in my heel - teaching ZUMBA while wearing a "boot". I used to finish my class and then cry all the way home because I was in so much pain.

Now I work harder at taking care of myself...I take days off when I need to, and feel less and less guilty when I do this (although I still feel guilty). Obviously this is something I still need to work on.
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Old 03-19-2014, 11:02 AM
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Cabo, that made me shiver. You put your finger right on it. I deserve to suffer. That's it. Thank you.
Yes.

For me it's that suffering happens. It happens to me, and I don't deserve relief.

One of the most confounding things to me is how much I suffered in my life for many years, and my family actively turned away, mocked my suffering, or told me I deserved it. I still don't understand that.

At the same time, I see that I am really handicapped when it comes to expressing support for others during difficult times. I literally don't know what to do, say, feel, or even, like, how to hold my hands.

I learned that you suffer alone, and you shut up and hoof through it. So that's what I do. I have people in my life now who want to help and give me soft places to rest, and I don't know how to handle that. It makes me very sad when I think about it. After all this "recovery" I finally learned how to calm and comfort myself, but haven't figured out how to transfer all this nervous energy to calm and comfort my loved ones.
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Old 03-19-2014, 11:24 AM
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Wow, this really strikes a chord with me! I can still hear my dad telling me to quit whining, stop complaining, etc. I can still hear his voice(he's dead, by the way) saying, "Aww, geez, Liz, would you just shut up and deal with it quietly?" 10 minutes later I was throwing up in the bathroom.

I remember, when I was 18, having part of my right rib cage removed because I had a tumor there. They had to actually remove the ribs, too, so I have a hole on my right side. I was in the hospital for 3 days and my dad never visited me. A few days after rest at home, I took a drive and got a speeding ticket. I was still in pain from the surgery but I came home in tears, not because of the surgery pain but because I was afraid of my dad reaming me for feeling pain at all. Well, that, and the fact that I was afraid of what he'd do to me for getting a ticket.

Like Florence said, I learned to shut up and hoof through it. I turn away from support constantly because I feel that I don't deserve it. If the people closest to me in my life didn't feel I was worthy of support, than I certainly shouldn't take it from acquaintances or friends. I learned that I was on my own and that's how I've handled many relationships since. Obviously, something I need to work on and do practice especially with my Al Anon supportive friends, etc.
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Old 03-19-2014, 11:49 AM
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All I can say is wow...I'm going to have to think on that a while. Oh, and what a catch you have to point that out to you so lovingly! :-}
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Old 03-19-2014, 11:50 AM
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For me it is a voice (mine is from much longer ago then the loved one that got me here). I think it might have been a voice of someone else, long ago, but now it is my voice that takes over the actual talking.

It is more about what I let "filter" through. I do so much to not let it get in that the contortions I do to prevent the feeling in are much more dangerous than the feeling itself.

Emotional pain....nope I should not have it so I don't let it perculate in. Physical pain, or other "hard" or "bad" emotions, nope they don't come in either.

I also don't let the really good stuff come in either....becaue I feel I don't deserve it. The filter that is in place to protect from pain, does not allow the good stuff in either. I am just FINALLY starting to get that.

Sometimes I feel like I have spent my life in the land of grey....and recovery has been about helping me to value, solidify and embody the hard stuff to be able to allow the good stuff in.

This is also stuff I had way before meeting my ex.....recovering from my ex has just forced me to examine it.
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Old 03-19-2014, 12:04 PM
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I definitely do this, too. For me, it started as a kid, trying to emulate my father's work ethic (workaholic) in order to get his attention. It worked, too. I remember being dropped off at school with a raging fever, mono, or some other malady and having my dad compliment me on my work ethic. As for stuffing emotional pain, that was just a given as an ACOA. Hide anything negative, show the world a facade. Being married to an A just affirmed and amplified all those traits.

Lillamy, I hope you feel better soon!!
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Old 03-19-2014, 12:25 PM
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Oh, this is the stuff that drives so much discomfort and many unwise choices. And so true, don't know it until we know it.

A few years back, a work colleague said to me "you have no idea how to take care of yourself, do you?" as I blundered on, through hellfire and brimstone, unwittingly taking on burdens I had no means or resources to cope with, and ignoring any reasonable discomfort or discomfiture. The cap fitted, and learning how not to, is a work in progress, and have a feeling as this stuff is hard wired now, it always will be.

Lillamy, thank you for sharing, starting the thread, and hope the pain subsides soon. Am so glad you're all here. It is so good not to feel alone with this stuff.
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Old 03-19-2014, 12:25 PM
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I can definitely relate to this, but I've gotten much, much better about it since starting my own recovery. For a long time if I had taken a sick day I would spend the first half of the day wondering if I was justified in doing so & the 2nd half kicking myself because by then I'd convinced myself I was being indulgent. The result (of course) no rest, feeling no better.

The roots of it are odd for me, my parents never really gave us a hard time about this kind of stuff intentionally. I started getting migraines & tunnel vision in early puberty as my body was changing. They started with minimal pain but a lot of issues with my vision/nausea & then grew in frequency & size over the years - my middle school nurse harrassed me terribly about "faking " it to get out of classes (awful woman, she couldn't "see" my symptoms so to her they weren't real.... nevermind that I literally walked into walls & would vomit uncontrollably) & then my mother would have to be called to leave work to pick me up.

As a child of an A, it was just not OK for me to inconvenience mom like that (in my mind) and I felt guilt over her getting in trouble for missing work due to her needy kid & then wondered at how I was screwing the family monetarily out of her missed wages. I always felt like I was letting everyone down when I needed ANYthing, healthcare or otherwise. So, not so much that I "deserved to suffer" so much as I was undeserving of what I considered "special treatment"... and by my defintion, EVERYthing qualified as special treatment.

No 10-yr old should be thinking of stuff like that while they are dealing with excruciating (& scary) pain.

Nowadays, I've even been known to take a "Mental Health Day" which is what I call it when I am taking a day off purely for my own mental health - all projects at work & home caught up & even though I'm not sick, I take a day off & ENJOY it.
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Old 03-19-2014, 01:18 PM
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Great thread lillamy! Wow. Wanted to quote but there was something in each and every post that spoke to me. I hope you're feeling better btw.

Some things that struck me. Deserve my struggles. Can't accept help let alone ask for help. Minimize all discomfort, convince self I'm exaggerating.

I am AA, ACOA and now Al-anon. I really thought I had moved through a lot of early behaviors and unwanted traits with recovery work in the first two. It wasn't until my codie exploded all over my life with RAS's struggles that I have learned how seriously not understanding 'self care' was impacting the way I live. In fact 'self care' was a truly alien term for me. Oh I've done many things to improve my life and take care of how I live so serenity can thrive - but 'self' care….. It may be that I am finally ready to embrace this 'self' who I don't really know yet and it is this growth which is shedding light on an understanding and willingness to recover. To silence early voices once and for all. To accept help when offered.

Whenever someone comments on how hard - pick one of many!, physical, emotional, financial, etc - different issues are in my life and how well I manage…. I am sincerely baffled because I don't acknowledge the difficulties, I don't see them as difficulties. I think because I believe I deserve to struggle? That struggling has become the norm for me?

As hard as this early codie recovery work is, and it is very painful in so many ways at the moment, I am truly grateful to have had my eyes opened. I now have the desire to find true ease and peace for myself. Pain is an indicator of the need to improve something. Pain is not something to consider the norm. Neither physical nor emotional. And I am learning to like myself enough to change deep rooted beliefs and behaviors. (I tried to type 'love' myself but couldn't - yet!) My son's struggles - a strangely wrapped gift indeed. Now I am fully here for me. Wow. That took long enough!!!

Extremely grateful for SR and each and everyone of you!
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Old 03-19-2014, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mattmathews View Post
I'm in a book study on "How Al-Anon Works" and the topic this past week was self-care. My confession was that while my RAW was drinking I didn't go to the dentist for 13 years. Lucky for me, I've (still) got good teeth! But I've spent the last 4 years working on taking better care of myself one tiny step and one day at a time.

There is a phrase in the Al-anon Welcome that says: "without such spiritual help, living with an alcoholic is too much for most of us." I believe that statement is true without reservation.

"That voice" that we hear inside us that's "not us"? Well, it really is us. Just another of the (many?) dysfunctional behaviors we've adopted and internalized to deal with the crazy, crazy world we live in. The good news is that there is a better way of living, there is recovery. But that means there is work to be done. Action to be taken.


I really like the analogy of putting the oxygen mask on ourselves first if the airplane loses pressure, because we can't care for anyone else until we've taken care of ourselves. We have to learn that its OK to take care of ourselves first. So...what have you done for yourself lately?
This is a great point. I am now able to recognize these thoughts when they come up and am able to treat them accordingly, because, as you said, they are MY thoughts now, and I am developing the tools to deal with them.
My mom suffers from paranoid schizophrenia, and I think others are right on when they say growing up with mentally ill or personality disordered parents primes you for abusive relationships later in life. Even if my father hadn't been an alcoholic, growing up with my mother would have still done plenty of damage.
Funny you should mention the dentist, Matt. I have my first dentist appointment in six years scheduled for next Monday. Hope my teeth are as good as yours!
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