What Codependents Do

Old 03-16-2014, 11:51 PM
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What Codependents Do

What Codependents Do
~All About Counseling

Hi my name is ________ and I am codependent. I will not stop telling you what you should do and how you should do it. I will spy on you, I will monitor exactly how much alcohol you drink and drugs you consume. I will lie awake at night and listen to your drunken crashing and vomiting and I will seethe with disappointment and rage. And then you will hear about it for three days.

Until I decide that this time is different, I will tell you time and time again just what I see you are doing wrong, how much you are hurting me and the children, how you are destroying our family. I will allow my finances and my social life to be destroyed. I will use your behavior to justify my frustration, depression, paralysis, and anger.

I don't love you, I cannot love you, because I pity you and don't respect your right to be exactly whom and what you are. I refuse to accept you the way you are because it would mean I will have to change. I am incapable of loving you because I feel superior to you, I would never say it out loud, but when I look at you and your problems I am assured of all the ways that I keep it together. My good qualities become exaggerated in my mind because I have your handy example to compare them to.

I refuse to step off of my constant attention to your problems because it means I will have to see that I myself have serious problems that I refuse to address and change. I need to convince myself on a daily basis that I know you so well and what's best for you because I don't know myself at all, and because of that I don't know what's good for me.

My behavior cannot and will not change until I make a decision to stop behaving and thinking this way, until I make a decision to focus on my own problems and the consequences of my own decisions in this life, and then follow it up with a plan of action.

And until I make that decision, I will hurt you and myself again and again and again.

Stop being surprised.

I am codependent, and that's what codependents do.
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Old 03-17-2014, 02:00 AM
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Thank you for your insightful piece, really helped me understand some things.
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Old 03-17-2014, 02:42 AM
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The more I learn about addictive behaviors, the more "alike" codependents and addicts appear to me.
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Old 03-17-2014, 04:20 AM
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That is superb. Thanks for sharing
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Old 03-17-2014, 09:06 AM
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I think it's also important to note that although the codependent may be hurting the addict (as the above letter implies)......they are hurting the other people who love them.

Just as the addict is doing what they do, thinking the whole time that they aren't hurting anyone except for themselves and they have no real clue as to the anguish they are causing their loved ones, the codependent does the same thing. They continue in the unhealthy, often destructive, interaction with the addict thinking that THEY are the ones being hurt.....THEY are the ones in anguish. They are often completely oblivious to the anguish they are causing others who love THEM as they observe the obviously unhealthy relationship the codependent has with the addict. This would include parents, siblings, and perhaps most importantly.....children.

The codependent is expecting the ADDICT to change....but so much can be accomplished when the codependent stops expecting (or trying to force, cajole, or shame) the addict to change and begins to do some very important work on themselves.

I understand that not everyone is codependent. My dear husband does not have a codependent bone in his body.....at all. But the thing that is sad, is that most codependents are stuck in deep, deep denial of the unhealthy nature of their own behaviors. Just as the addict is the last one to admit they are addicted yet everyone else around them knows......the codependent is often the last one to understand that they are a codependent.

There was a thread a long time ago that was like the Jeff Foxworthy thing of you may be a redneck if......There's a long list of codependent traits.......you may be a codependent if...... Personally, I can laugh at myself....but as I was in the initial stages of realizing that I was codependent.....I was wickedly, vehemently denying it.

I am not suggesting that anyone on this forum is or is not codependent. That is for each individual to decide.

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ke
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Old 03-17-2014, 09:15 AM
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I actually have thought of myself as codependent and this makes me doubt that I "actually" am. I'm more just weak. Scared. Nervous. I see my faults. I worry about him too much, but this shows codependency goes beyond just worrying about someone else too much.
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Old 03-17-2014, 09:18 AM
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I often wonder if my codependent traits would have laid dormant for years or come out at some point in my life WITHOUT my daughter's help. Or was I even codependent at all until this situation with her?

I've always said it's sooooooooooo not fair that I feel I'm paying for HER addiction. That my life is so out of control because of HER addiction. That I feel totally helpless and unable to get it together because of HER addiction.

Would I have gone along fat and happy without her illness, or am I fooling myself into thinking I was emotionally healthy, and really wasn't? Was it simply the nature of our relationship (parent/child) that was the catalyst?

Maybe I'm blowing smoke up my you-know-what, but I honestly think if it wasn't my child (or probably my husband) I could walk away, no problem. Is that the denial talking...or truth?

This is so crazy-making!!
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Old 03-17-2014, 09:31 AM
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I think it's also important to point out that being codependent or having codependent behaviors is nothing to be ashamed of. It doesn't make one "lesser than". It's just maladaptive behaviors learned in childhood, previous relationships, or may be developing in currant relationships. One could also just have situational codependency or codependent behaviors.

I know during the "year of my insanity" that I behaved in ways I never behaved before or since. I know during that same year I compromised and abandoned myself over and over again. And, again during that year I ALLOWED myself to be treated in ways that a healthy person would never allow.

Sure, I can pick out dozens of things I didn't do, or didn't allow and think that I was terminally unique or even worse "better than". But, just like with the addict, take the use of drugs out of it, was my behavior acceptable or not. And, for me...no it wasn't.
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Old 03-17-2014, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by KF85 View Post
I actually have thought of myself as codependent and this makes me doubt that I "actually" am. I'm more just weak. Scared. Nervous. I see my faults. I worry about him too much, but this shows codependency goes beyond just worrying about someone else too much.
KF85......I would agree with you that a codependent isn't "weak". If anything they are almost the opposite of weak. I also think that stating that you are "weak" is a harsh and perhaps unfair self assessment......or perhaps not....only you can decide. I would use words like "kind hearted" or "overly fair to others" (often to their own detriment).

Often a codependent considers themselves (and others do too) as "strong enough to handle it" and they will go to some unusual lengths to "handle it". I "handled it" for everyone around me. Everyone depended on Kindeyes.....she was the steady one.....the dependable one.....the one who always came through.....the one who knew the answers.....the one who tried to control all that was negative and turn it into a positive. Until she just couldn't do it anymore......my life became unmanageable.

“If ever there is tomorrow when we're not together.. there is something you must always remember. you are braver than you believe, stronger than you seem, and smarter than you think. but the most important thing is, even if we're apart...... I'll always be with you.” ~Winnie the Pooh

Just like talking about addiction brings light to the subject, talking about codependence brings it out of the closet. It is nothing to be ashamed of. I know a lot of codependents and they are some of the nicest people you'd ever want to know.....

Codependents who understand, admit, and work on their codependent traits are some of the most authentic people I know.

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ke
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Old 03-17-2014, 10:00 AM
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Kindeyes - I suppose at one point I would say simply kind hearted or overly empathetic, to a fault, and I still am. But I'm worn down so I have to add weak as well.
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Old 03-17-2014, 10:32 AM
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this is so insightful! I always thought that my biggest strength was the ability to "handle it" and that is what I do! With JJ's addiction, this became my obsession, to handle his trials, tribulations and successes! I finally think I am coming to terms with the fact that my son is a grown man, he has a good strong head on his shoulders, and HIS addiction is HIS burden. I am reminding myself daily to not pick up this cross, not take this burden and not worry that I didn't do enough.
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Old 03-17-2014, 10:35 AM
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Yes, I do think someone extremely tender-hearted and able to be very empathetic is more at risk, I really do. They tend to put themselves in other's situations and, in this case, can feel the suffering of the addict (especially if it's their child) much too well. It's a perfect storm to ALLOW them to treat us this way and fuels our codependent actions, that might otherwise never come to light. Maybe?

Add in a people-pleaser and you've got a big emotional mess waiting to happen. (And I think people-pleasing comes from a different place than empathy and tender-heartedness. For me, it's not wanting to rock ANY boat, EVER.)

In my way of thinking alleviating my daughter's trauma, sadness, loneliness - and, thus, her consequences - was the humane thing to do.

UN-learning those behaviors is so hard, especially when I don't want my NOT helping her to make her addict-life more miserable. To make her think mom doesn't care anymore and that she has nowhere else to turn - as she tells me, repeatedly, so it must be the truth!! - hurts my heart. THAT is the driving force behind my codependency, I believe.
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Old 03-17-2014, 10:54 AM
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Wow. It is so easy to start slipping backwards in my recovery. Thank you so much for posting this, as I have been sitting here pouting...Not realizing I was a slippin' and a slidin' right back down!
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Old 03-17-2014, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by cynical one View Post
What Codependents Do
~All About Counseling

Hi my name is ________ and I am codependent. I will not stop telling you what you should do and how you should do it. I will spy on you, I will monitor exactly how much alcohol you drink and drugs you consume. I will lie awake at night and listen to your drunken crashing and vomiting and I will seethe with disappointment and rage. And then you will hear about it for three days.

Until I decide that this time is different, I will tell you time and time again just what I see you are doing wrong, how much you are hurting me and the children, how you are destroying our family. I will allow my finances and my social life to be destroyed. I will use your behavior to justify my frustration, depression, paralysis, and anger.

I don't love you, I cannot love you, because I pity you and don't respect your right to be exactly whom and what you are. I refuse to accept you the way you are because it would mean I will have to change. I am incapable of loving you because I feel superior to you, I would never say it out loud, but when I look at you and your problems I am assured of all the ways that I keep it together. My good qualities become exaggerated in my mind because I have your handy example to compare them to.

I refuse to step off of my constant attention to your problems because it means I will have to see that I myself have serious problems that I refuse to address and change. I need to convince myself on a daily basis that I know you so well and what's best for you because I don't know myself at all, and because of that I don't know what's good for me.

My behavior cannot and will not change until I make a decision to stop behaving and thinking this way, until I make a decision to focus on my own problems and the consequences of my own decisions in this life, and then follow it up with a plan of action.

And until I make that decision, I will hurt you and myself again and again and again.

Stop being surprised.

I am codependent, and that's what codependents do.
What I'm wondering is how a NON codependent would sound if dealing with an addict.

Hi, my name is ______ and I am NOT codependent. I..........

How would it go?

I'm asking because when someone first discovers their loved one has a problem wouldn't they, at first at least, do the same things a codependent would do? Wouldn't anyone at first be sympathetic, try to 'talk' to the addict, offer advice on where to get help, bail them out (at least once anyway), etc.?

I guess I am wondering how a person who is not a codependent handles the first signs that there is a problem. Do they normally just say "You do drugs. I want nothing to do with you until you stop" and leave them on their own? I guess some do but would that be typical?

Kari
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Old 03-17-2014, 05:40 PM
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The non codependent dinner table:

Day 1
You drink too much. Pass the peas.

Week 3
If you want to keep drinking that's fine for you. I'm not okay with it. I'm deciding what that means for me. Sorry I burned the steak. Don't forget dinner with the Smiths on Saturday.

Month 2
Yep, I'm done with your controlling deceitful behavior. I leased an apartment and am leaving. Here, have some pasta. I left a few meals in the fridge and my number on the wall in case you decide to change before I find someone new. Love you.



IMHO, you can't be in an addictive relationship for long before you develop some codependent behaviors, even if you didn't have them to begin with. And I'm the queen of denial on this one!
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Old 03-17-2014, 05:47 PM
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I thankfully had more 'normal' people in my life during my formative years than codependents.

Originally Posted by KariSue View Post
Do they normally just say "You do drugs. I want nothing to do with you until you stop" and leave them on their own?
That's pretty much what they all said to me about drugs and alcohol, and I wasn't an addict/alcoholic. I was experimenting and abusing.

I remember one of my friends mom's telling me she didn't want her daughter around me because I started smoking cigs. The mom was also one of my teachers and she continued to treat me with respect. I respected her for the honesty, and everyone else for that matter.

The thing is, everyone these days are always surprised when I share those memories and about how people distanced themselves from me. People today are surprised that I respected the honesty in my past. To me that means these people I know today are enablers.
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Old 03-17-2014, 05:58 PM
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Wow! Awesome post! Thank you so much for sharing! I learned to be co-dependent probably in my very early years. Even after seeing several counselors over the years and finally finding a good one who was CBT therapist whom I saw for over a year, I still struggle with it.
I agree with Greeneyes, how much difference is there really between a co-dependent and an addict? We are both trying to change a habit that is extremely hard to change and the behaviors can be similar. Always a work in progress.
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Old 03-18-2014, 07:00 AM
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Just because you don’t take drugs doesn’t mean you aren’t chasing some fix to make it all ok in your own head.

I find codependency is an addiction. Does it matter if ones voice in their head is driving them to use or driving them to save, there is the same level of impulsive/compulsive need, same level of desperation and helplessness and fear, the same level of this need to control something and the denial is running the show. Codependents and addicts alike have no problem with masks.

Each side justifies its own behavior in a desperate need to shut their own head off, and alleviate the pain they feel. You lose yourself no matter which side you sit on.

Most addicts are codependent too, and codependents run a real risk of switching from people to food, to alcohol, drugs or getting wrapped up in another person…although many who are codie have seen that they have issues with just more than the addict in their life.

Oh cynical, what we allow … I so allowed, ugh.

And what you wrote needingabreak, I am so sure my codependent patterns were set early on. But I was an addict through my teen years, so leaving drugs behind and then marrying an addict … well that all tends to make sense now.

I remember days thinking omg can’t anyone see how sick he is … duh, so missing how sick I was. I also remember being in the doctors with him in the very beginning and his partial confession of a problem with pills, he left the heroin out. The doctor turned to me and asked if I need help too, maybe because I looked worse than he did?

Also I don’t think I could dismiss the fact that as soon as I really started to switch the focus back onto me, I also started drinking again. Never really left much room for this being all his fault, as if I wasn‘t there. Did show how unhealthy I was, that is for sure. I could have stayed in the anger in blame, but all that really did was keep me chained.
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Old 03-18-2014, 07:08 AM
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I think this would be a great sticky.
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Old 03-18-2014, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by incitingsilence View Post
Just because you don’t take drugs doesn’t mean you aren’t chasing some fix to make it all ok in your own head.

I find codependency is an addiction. Does it matter if ones voice in their head is driving them to use or driving them to save, there is the same level of impulsive/compulsive need, same level of desperation and helplessness and fear, the same level of this need to control something and the denial is running the show. Codependents and addicts alike have no problem with masks.

Each side justifies its own behavior in a desperate need to shut their own head off, and alleviate the pain they feel. You lose yourself no matter which side you sit on.

Most addicts are codependent too, and codependents run a real risk of switching from people to food, to alcohol, drugs or getting wrapped up in another person…although many who are codie have seen that they have issues with just more than the addict in their life.

Oh cynical, what we allow … I so allowed, ugh.

And what you wrote needingabreak, I am so sure my codependent patterns were set early on. But I was an addict through my teen years, so leaving drugs behind and then marrying an addict … well that all tends to make sense now.

I remember days thinking omg can’t anyone see how sick he is … duh, so missing how sick I was. I also remember being in the doctors with him in the very beginning and his partial confession of a problem with pills, he left the heroin out. The doctor turned to me and asked if I need help too, maybe because I looked worse than he did?

Also I don’t think I could dismiss the fact that as soon as I really started to switch the focus back onto me, I also started drinking again. Never really left much room for this being all his fault, as if I wasn‘t there. Did show how unhealthy I was, that is for sure. I could have stayed in the anger in blame, but all that really did was keep me chained.
Bingo....incitingsilence.......yes....I too believe that codependence is a form of addiction.....similar to other behavioral addictions such as overeating, gambling, anorexia, excessive shopping, etc. Codependent "tendencies" aren't a problem.....unless they go into overdrive and reach that stage of "addiction". I have to substitute my "addiction" for another addiction. If I don't take that energy and expend it in a very positive way, I'll head right back into the abyss. For some, it may be meetings....for me (right now) it's learning another language.

An addict in recovery once told me that stopping the use of heroin was the "easy part" for him....it was changing all of the behaviors that got him there that has been really tough.

A great book....Addictive Thinking: Understanding Self Deception by Abraham Twerski MD is a great book to help understand the subtleties of the way the brain works when addiction/codependence is involved. It provided an "aha" moment for me to link the two.

gentle hugs
ke
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