Lies they tell our children...
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Lies they tell our children...
My STBXAH has been out several weeks. I haven't seen him since he moved out... our contact is all via email/text or the rare telephone call. DD14 spends one night/week alone with her father (oldest ds goes over for dinner that night but does not stay.) I try not to ask questions about their time together because I don't want her to feel like I'm 'fishing' for information. Mostly, I just try to listen if she cares to share any information. Recently, she's told me several things that her father's 'told' her, that I know to be untrue. How do I handle this??? Do I tell dd the truth? Say something to STBXAH? Or, just let it go?? Most are little stuff that really doesn't matter. But, some of the things are important to me.
Example: He was in a very popular local band when we met/first years of our marriage. The band ended up disbanding due to various reasons... one member leaving after another. STBXAH was actually the 2nd member to leave because of personality conflicts with someone else.... he told DD that he quit the band because *I* wanted him home with me & oldest ds. Totally not true!
Another example: STBXAH went back to school after he was laid off several years ago. I was actually preparing to go back to grad school at the time but *we* decided that he should go back first since he wasn't working. He quit school last year (did not graduate.) He told DD he never wanted to go back, just chose to because I told him if he didn't, he had to move out. Also not true.
Do I tell her the truth or just let it go? I want to tell her the truth because both lies make me sound bad... but I don't know if my motive is truth or pride?? What would you do & why?
Example: He was in a very popular local band when we met/first years of our marriage. The band ended up disbanding due to various reasons... one member leaving after another. STBXAH was actually the 2nd member to leave because of personality conflicts with someone else.... he told DD that he quit the band because *I* wanted him home with me & oldest ds. Totally not true!
Another example: STBXAH went back to school after he was laid off several years ago. I was actually preparing to go back to grad school at the time but *we* decided that he should go back first since he wasn't working. He quit school last year (did not graduate.) He told DD he never wanted to go back, just chose to because I told him if he didn't, he had to move out. Also not true.
Do I tell her the truth or just let it go? I want to tell her the truth because both lies make me sound bad... but I don't know if my motive is truth or pride?? What would you do & why?
Stoic
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wash D.C.
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This is really difficult, because trying to set the record straight with the lies that an A partner tells the children could end up making the child feel like a ragdoll, and cause them to withdraw away from both parents.
Each child is different, of course, and only you know your child well enough to predict how she’d react…but before you decide on what you’re going to do, make sure you take stock of your own feelings and the importance of why you might tell her the truth?
Are you telling her the truth just so that you look good in her eyes, moreso than your STBX? To make yourself feel better…a “clean slate” as it were? To make him look bad to your DD, showing that he is a liar?
I’m not saying any of these reason are wrong. Each child reacts differently to being in the middle of an Active A and a non-A butting heads.
Just…make sure that whatever you decide is in the best interest of your DD and her long term mental well-being…even if it means it might (silently) hurt you.
We are the strong ones, the ones that (have to) endure, and the ones that need to maintain our strength in order to protect our children as much as possible from the insanity of an A partner.
Each child is different, of course, and only you know your child well enough to predict how she’d react…but before you decide on what you’re going to do, make sure you take stock of your own feelings and the importance of why you might tell her the truth?
Are you telling her the truth just so that you look good in her eyes, moreso than your STBX? To make yourself feel better…a “clean slate” as it were? To make him look bad to your DD, showing that he is a liar?
I’m not saying any of these reason are wrong. Each child reacts differently to being in the middle of an Active A and a non-A butting heads.
Just…make sure that whatever you decide is in the best interest of your DD and her long term mental well-being…even if it means it might (silently) hurt you.
We are the strong ones, the ones that (have to) endure, and the ones that need to maintain our strength in order to protect our children as much as possible from the insanity of an A partner.
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JustAgirl---I can tell you what I would do. Being as she is 14yrs. old and SHE brought it up---means, to me, that she really wants to know........
I would say something general....Like: "Your Dad often sees things one way and I see them another" Or "Your dad and I have had a lot of trouble seeing things eye-to-eye; that is one of the reasons we no longer live together"
If she wants to know more--specifically---she has the open door to ask. If she does ask--I would give her a simple statement of facts from your point of view.
I would, also, gently remind her that you don't expect her to have to take sides--and, that you don't expect her to defend you.
Once, my 6yr. old told me that his dad and (new wife) said "bad things" about me when he was at their house and that it made him feel bad. (he felt bad because he was too afraid to defend me--and then felt guilty. I just hugged him and said "honey, that is o.k. When people say bad things about me that aren't true--I don't pay any attention to them! Don't worry--just ignore the things that they say" That seemed to do the trick. He seemed veery relieved.
dndylion
I would say something general....Like: "Your Dad often sees things one way and I see them another" Or "Your dad and I have had a lot of trouble seeing things eye-to-eye; that is one of the reasons we no longer live together"
If she wants to know more--specifically---she has the open door to ask. If she does ask--I would give her a simple statement of facts from your point of view.
I would, also, gently remind her that you don't expect her to have to take sides--and, that you don't expect her to defend you.
Once, my 6yr. old told me that his dad and (new wife) said "bad things" about me when he was at their house and that it made him feel bad. (he felt bad because he was too afraid to defend me--and then felt guilty. I just hugged him and said "honey, that is o.k. When people say bad things about me that aren't true--I don't pay any attention to them! Don't worry--just ignore the things that they say" That seemed to do the trick. He seemed veery relieved.
dndylion
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I totally agree. I usto try and cover up things until I found out it was making my 14 year old have alot of resentment b/c there were things she wanted to know and I was not telling her. I don't tell her all the gory details, but I do tell her generalized statements and I talk to her about it as long as she wants. I put the focus on us and how we can take charge of our own recovery. I have found this has brought us very close and she knows I am there for her, always.
Kids are much better than we adults are at looking at actions, not words. I am sure in time your DD will look at his actions and know what is what, if not already. They are quite observant and if he is lying about these things, he is likely lying about other things that she will, sadly, realize in her life.
It's a sad thing, the best we can do is prepare them so they know that that hurt does not have to overtake their own lives and help them handle the pain as it comes.
God Bless.
Kids are much better than we adults are at looking at actions, not words. I am sure in time your DD will look at his actions and know what is what, if not already. They are quite observant and if he is lying about these things, he is likely lying about other things that she will, sadly, realize in her life.
It's a sad thing, the best we can do is prepare them so they know that that hurt does not have to overtake their own lives and help them handle the pain as it comes.
God Bless.
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Once, my 6yr. old told me that his dad and (new wife) said "bad things" about me when he was at their house and that it made him feel bad. (he felt bad because he was too afraid to defend me--and then felt guilty. I just hugged him and said "honey, that is o.k. When people say bad things about me that aren't true--I don't pay any attention to them! Don't worry--just ignore the things that they say"
When my kids have asked me direct questions ("Dad said this -- is that true?"), I have responded truthfully.
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I agree with Dandylion's approach, general, gentle correction... but if she outright asks, I'd outright give her the full truth.
DD has even asked in the way of saying, Dad said x,y,z but it just doesn't seem likely to me based on his own bad decision making.... that the words he sometimes used didn't hold up to her own impressions, gut instinct, etc. She told me at one point that she trusted me more based simply on the the way I made "good" decisions.... she based her definition of his "bad" decisions on things like being with him when he was pulled over for speeding (many times), being so late {always}, missing appts, making excuses, etc.
She'd go so far as to say, "This sounds more like the way HE would handle a situation like this, Mom, not you". In those cases I wanted to make SURE to validate her own opinions/instincts as correct because that helps her build her own trust in herself too.
DD has even asked in the way of saying, Dad said x,y,z but it just doesn't seem likely to me based on his own bad decision making.... that the words he sometimes used didn't hold up to her own impressions, gut instinct, etc. She told me at one point that she trusted me more based simply on the the way I made "good" decisions.... she based her definition of his "bad" decisions on things like being with him when he was pulled over for speeding (many times), being so late {always}, missing appts, making excuses, etc.
She'd go so far as to say, "This sounds more like the way HE would handle a situation like this, Mom, not you". In those cases I wanted to make SURE to validate her own opinions/instincts as correct because that helps her build her own trust in herself too.
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It's such a rocky place to be. Can I just say how much it stinks that we spend SO much time possibly even avoiding conversations our older children NEED out of fear of it putting the A in a bad light? Or being "parental alienation"?
Then on the flip side is often the slamming, blaming, projecting...coming our way via the kids.
I'm constantly treading water here to find the right balance. But one approach that's worked very well (my kids are 12 and 14) is "You know, when I think back I find it interesting how people have different perspectives based on what was going on in their minds at the time. But remember this...we are all in charge of our own future. When I'm 80, I can't cry that my life was horrible because dad had an affair. When you're 30 you can't cry that your life is horrible because your parents divorced or dad is an A. At the end of the day, always remember, each of us is the sole architect of our future."
Usually I realize my desire to say more is my need to not look bad, and at the end of the day (good God tell me that's true) my actions will show them that I'm a good person. So instead I try to shift it to focusing on self-responsibility (which they may hopefully eventually recognize is absent in dad, and not allow it to grow in themselves--one of my biggest fears).
Maybe it's my subtle way of training them when they hear things like this to think- nope! We're all in charge of ourselves!
By the way, they usually roll their eyes. One of them said it before I could the other day..."I know, I know, we create our futures..." I view this as a success.
Then on the flip side is often the slamming, blaming, projecting...coming our way via the kids.
I'm constantly treading water here to find the right balance. But one approach that's worked very well (my kids are 12 and 14) is "You know, when I think back I find it interesting how people have different perspectives based on what was going on in their minds at the time. But remember this...we are all in charge of our own future. When I'm 80, I can't cry that my life was horrible because dad had an affair. When you're 30 you can't cry that your life is horrible because your parents divorced or dad is an A. At the end of the day, always remember, each of us is the sole architect of our future."
Usually I realize my desire to say more is my need to not look bad, and at the end of the day (good God tell me that's true) my actions will show them that I'm a good person. So instead I try to shift it to focusing on self-responsibility (which they may hopefully eventually recognize is absent in dad, and not allow it to grow in themselves--one of my biggest fears).
Maybe it's my subtle way of training them when they hear things like this to think- nope! We're all in charge of ourselves!
By the way, they usually roll their eyes. One of them said it before I could the other day..."I know, I know, we create our futures..." I view this as a success.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
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Was so thick around here when Mrs. Hammer came back from Rehab, that the kids and I started a "God Box" we called it "100 Lies in 100 Days," sort of a joke of the 90 meetings in 90 days that Mrs. Hammer was supposed to doing.
After it got so nutz that 10 year old daughter wound up in Alateen to deal with it . . . daughter and I got smart and started praying for God to remove Lies and Evil from our house.
The next week, Mrs. Hammer got a job at a Rehab Clinic, herself. Very intense one that specialized in a 1 year "lock down" and intense 12 Step Indoctrination for the inmates -- specializing in chronic Relapsers with underlying Mental Health issues . . . Mrs. Hammer was gone 60 hours a week or more for the next nine months on that. Funny part was daughter looked up at me one day right after that job started and said . . . "It Works -- the Lies are gone from the house, now."
Now, 15 months back from the Rehab, and working at a different local Rehab, the surface seems much calmer. But we (Mrs. Hammer and I) have barely, lightly, started into some discussions of this, and it is still pretty whacky under the surface. When she persona flips, she does not seem to have complete memories of what she has said and done in other personas.
Ok. Spring Break has started, it is my birthday, and the 9 year old Cub Scout just came by. He was reading this and just sort of laughing and giggling, too. He wound up in Alateen, too, trying to sort out all "mom's" lies.
However, he requested I put some of the various smiley faces on . . . so from our Cub Scout to you all . . .
(well he picked out about 20, but the system only lets you put on 5, so if you wish for fun, pick some more and send back to him).
Love you all.
After it got so nutz that 10 year old daughter wound up in Alateen to deal with it . . . daughter and I got smart and started praying for God to remove Lies and Evil from our house.
The next week, Mrs. Hammer got a job at a Rehab Clinic, herself. Very intense one that specialized in a 1 year "lock down" and intense 12 Step Indoctrination for the inmates -- specializing in chronic Relapsers with underlying Mental Health issues . . . Mrs. Hammer was gone 60 hours a week or more for the next nine months on that. Funny part was daughter looked up at me one day right after that job started and said . . . "It Works -- the Lies are gone from the house, now."
Now, 15 months back from the Rehab, and working at a different local Rehab, the surface seems much calmer. But we (Mrs. Hammer and I) have barely, lightly, started into some discussions of this, and it is still pretty whacky under the surface. When she persona flips, she does not seem to have complete memories of what she has said and done in other personas.
Ok. Spring Break has started, it is my birthday, and the 9 year old Cub Scout just came by. He was reading this and just sort of laughing and giggling, too. He wound up in Alateen, too, trying to sort out all "mom's" lies.
However, he requested I put some of the various smiley faces on . . . so from our Cub Scout to you all . . .
(well he picked out about 20, but the system only lets you put on 5, so if you wish for fun, pick some more and send back to him).
Love you all.
Not waving, but drowning
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 423
Happy Birthday Hammer Not to hijack the thread.
As to honesty---I agree with gentle correction and keeping the door open to more specifics. As an ACOA I remember wanting truth, since so much of reality was being molded and distorted by my AF.
I remember one conversation with my father, when he sat me down over lunch, and very believably told me that my mother was a very very (mentally) sick lady, and probably should be put in an institution. He was on his 3rd whisky at the time. I almost believed him and I was in my 20's at the time!! (My mom is a vibrant 85 year old now, and he is long dead of alcohol-related causes).
But I guess this goes to show how hard it is to resist their belief in their own lies and reality. I think correction (not angry, just straightforward) is a good idea with an older child.
Not to hijack the thread.As to honesty---I agree with gentle correction and keeping the door open to more specifics. As an ACOA I remember wanting truth, since so much of reality was being molded and distorted by my AF.
I remember one conversation with my father, when he sat me down over lunch, and very believably told me that my mother was a very very (mentally) sick lady, and probably should be put in an institution. He was on his 3rd whisky at the time. I almost believed him and I was in my 20's at the time!! (My mom is a vibrant 85 year old now, and he is long dead of alcohol-related causes).
But I guess this goes to show how hard it is to resist their belief in their own lies and reality. I think correction (not angry, just straightforward) is a good idea with an older child.
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Originally Posted by ResignedToWait 
This is really difficult, because trying to set the record straight with the lies that an A partner tells the children could end up making the child feel like a ragdoll, and cause them to withdraw away from both parents.
I think I will follow dandylion's approach. We have discussed how people perceive things differently and how our perceptions and past experiences color our memories so it definitely won't be a stretch to apply it to STBXAH's & my memories. If she flat out asks, I will tell her what I remember and let her judge by our actions whom to believe.
And, yes, Praying, it does suck! It's one thing to have different perceptions... I'll agree that AH may have felt like I would ask him to leave if he quit school but it's quite another to state his feelings as truth when I in no way said or implied such a thing!
I leave encouraging notes or quotes on the dry erase board in the kitchen for the kids... next week when he picks up dd, I'll add "Feelings are NOT facts" to the dry erase board and hope that STBXAH reads it
Happy Birthday, Hammer!!!!
You guys do spring break early down in TX! (I'll add some relevant smilies for your kiddo) 
2
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Also, probably should have added that I think a major motivation for wanting to tell dd the truth is because it felt like an attack on my character and I wanted to set it right. She spends one night/week with him and 6 with me. Their time is all 'fun time' and I'm feeling a bit like the mean parent! So, basically, all about me, lol. Definitely not the right reason for me to share! This is why I've decided not to go out of my way to set the record straight. If it comes up again, I'll just mention that our perceptions are different and she can ask or not ask. If not, I'll address the 'difference in our perceptions' when the next lie comes up (which at his current rate of lying will be the next time he talks to dd )
)
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I bet that these aren't "lies" so much as him having convinced himself that this is what really happened (woe is me, kind of thing). My AH has himself convinced of some "truths" that he will drag out every so often. Your choice to gently bring up "different perceptions" is good - no blaming, just a reminder that not everything he says will be the gospel truth.
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Originally Posted by Missus
I bet that these aren't "lies" so much as him having convinced himself that this is what really happened (woe is me, kind of thing). My AH has himself convinced of some "truths" that he will drag out every so often. Your choice to gently bring up "different perceptions" is good - no blaming, just a reminder that not everything he says will be the gospel truth.
The worst part was how many of the lies I believed for so long Engineer Things; LOVE People
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Looking at the title again in passing . . .
Lies they tell our children...
Sort of makes me laugh.
You know what Mrs. Hammer is maddest at me about?
Any Truths I told our children.
Cannot get any clearer than that, I suppose.
Lies they tell our children...
Sort of makes me laugh.
You know what Mrs. Hammer is maddest at me about?
Any Truths I told our children.
Cannot get any clearer than that, I suppose.
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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When my XH moved abroad & was texting my 10 yr old nasty stuff about me & trying to force her to give me a hard time she ignored it. When I found out about it we talked about it & she said she didn't like what he was saying & she chose to ignore it. We agreed between us rather than take the phone away when this was not her problem she was to continue ignoring these remarks if that's what she chose to do. She did not feel comfortable telling him not to say these things. We also discussed that if he was saying these things in person face to face then the best course of action was just to agree with him or say nothing, not take it on board & move on.
What I would advise is to take note & record these conversations on paper because I did & I printed out texts etc & certainly I did need them when he returned home & started court proceedings against me for custody!
I have a running record & proof & it is all with the lawyer now.
It proves defamation of character & if it came to it, I would use it.
I wouldn't read too much into what he is feeding your child because your child will make their own decisions.
I would maybe tell her though that it is not appropriate for Dad to be saying horrible things or untruth about you to your child & leave it at that.
By the way after my daughter kept ignoring the text remarks he eventually gave up texting them.
What I would advise is to take note & record these conversations on paper because I did & I printed out texts etc & certainly I did need them when he returned home & started court proceedings against me for custody!
I have a running record & proof & it is all with the lawyer now.
It proves defamation of character & if it came to it, I would use it.
I wouldn't read too much into what he is feeding your child because your child will make their own decisions.
I would maybe tell her though that it is not appropriate for Dad to be saying horrible things or untruth about you to your child & leave it at that.
By the way after my daughter kept ignoring the text remarks he eventually gave up texting them.
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Honestly (pun intended!), if she's asking you about it at all, I think it's because she's questioning the validity of what he said anyway. I bet your daughter can probably predict and make her own assumptions of "that does or doesn't sound like something mom would say or do" and go from there.
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Oh Hammer my AH was absolutely furious when I started telling the children the truth about the drinking.
In his mind, all I was doing was telling them lies.
Of course he forgets that they can see and hear everything. He must have thought they were blind and deaf too.
Sue
In his mind, all I was doing was telling them lies.
Of course he forgets that they can see and hear everything. He must have thought they were blind and deaf too.
Sue
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Hi. My ex dropped some crazy nonsense on our kid..."I don't want you to get sick again b/c I can't get a job if I'm sitting around every day with you." WTF. Yah, the kid's been sick 2x this year. Totally her fault he can't get a job. In the moment, I told him that was *expletive* of him and that if he felt it was all just too much to handle, to split, that I can handle it.
The next day I was talking it over with my pal in a similar situation, and she hooked me up with this article which is very helpful in dealing with this sorta thing.
My Ex Keeps Trashing Me to the Kids! What Should I Do? | Kate Scharff
I'm not sure that will work. The link, I mean. I hope you find it to be helpful!
The next day I was talking it over with my pal in a similar situation, and she hooked me up with this article which is very helpful in dealing with this sorta thing.
My Ex Keeps Trashing Me to the Kids! What Should I Do? | Kate Scharff
I'm not sure that will work. The link, I mean. I hope you find it to be helpful!
Engineer Things; LOVE People
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Originally Posted by Hammer
Now, 15 months back from the Rehab, and working at a different local Rehab, the surface seems much calmer. But we (Mrs. Hammer and I) have barely, lightly, started into some discussions of this, and it is still pretty whacky under the surface. When she persona flips, she does not seem to have complete memories of what she has said and done in other personas.
Ok. Spring Break has started, it is my birthday, and the 9 year old Cub Scout just came by. He was reading this and just sort of laughing and giggling, too. He wound up in Alateen, too, trying to sort out all "mom's" lies.
Sitting having birthday cake tonight.
Mrs. Hammer volunteered for a 12 hour day.
but all three kids made and decorated a cake, so we waited for her to come home. At any rate Mrs. Hammer was talking to the 9 y.o. Cub Scout. He stopped her. He asked her to not talk like a Therapist, but rather as a mom. She stammered but could not break out of the Persona. He explained what he meant and detailed the features right there at the table. I had no idea he has been listening and observing so carefully. He is 95% percentile, but we talk so normal between us I forget that. Really he can talk to few kids in his class. But the 9 y.o. has Mrs. Hammer figured out too.
I had no idea that he could now see through the Persona(s) and "voices" (as my daughter calls them). Guess I should have the "long talk" with him, too.
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