amy55

I think some people might be getting tired of seeing my threads and posts today. But, I promise, this is my last one.

You see, I started with this forum in Aug 2011. I remember my first post here. It was in the Newcomers Section. I was drinking that day. I think I was on my 4th or 5th beer of the day. It wasn't noontime yet.

I'm doing really well now. I started to coming to the family and friends section. I felt a lot more at home in this section. The problems that I was facing was the problems that people here are facing. Or so I thought.

The more I was here, the more I was beginning to feel out of place. You see, I never blamed my marriage on my ex's alcoholism, yea sure he drank, he drank a lot. He started fights with me when he drank. He raged at me at those times, so I took up hiding in the garage, and doing my own drinking, (self medication). I know I can call it whatever I want to call it, the truth was I couldn't deal with life and I used alcohol to help me with this. Isn't this what most, if not all alkies do?

But, (and I know you shouldn't start a sentence with the word but), BUT, I saw many situations that involved abuse. That was something that I could associate with. I never would have left my ex because he was an alcoholic, (even though, if he was an alcoholic, but not abusive, I may have had to make a decision on that). What I was dealing with was someone who was extremely abusive, who just so happened to also be an alcoholic. To me that is two separate, identifiable things. I hope that makes sense??? idk?

I was beginning to believe that I didn't belong here. I almost felt like I was a fraud, because the drinking didn't bother me too much, because the abuse just overpowered that.

I have been reading here, and there are so many posts that are about abuse, and yes they mention drinking, but it seems that the abuse is the bigger problem. Also, that if you just get rid of the alcohol, that the abuse will disappear.

Like I said, I was a drinker, I have had blackouts, but what I do remember is that with blackouts, I may not have remembered doing something the next day, but I can assure you, I knew what I was doing while I was doing it.

So I don't know what I am even trying to say here. I think it is a really good thing to keep giving out the DV hotline # 1-800-799-SAFE (7233), and I do think it is equally important to suggest al-anon because I'm sure anyone who is in an abusive situation has co-dependency issues.

For anyone who is reading here, what I want to say is, if you feel safe speaking here, venting here, seeking support here, then this is the place for you, whether your situation is more about alcoholism or about abuse.

I'm not going anywhere, even though yes, my ex was an alcoholic, but that is not what I felt the bigger problem was, I felt it was the abuse side of things. My ex started out abusing me only when he was drinking, then it progressed year after year, till he abused me every day, and it was irregardless of whether he was drinking or not.

And I do promise, this is the last thread that I start tonight. (lol)

Hammer

Folks come, folks go

Just Do Good no matter where or what you are doing.

------------------------

Sort of funny. Comparing notes with you.

In my world -- She was 4 years AA when we met. The day she relapsed, a few years later, I was not even there. Never seen her drunk.

But have seen WAY Too Much "Dry Drunk," since.

And WAY Too Much Crazy.

Praying

Thank you for this! The drinking itself didn't bother me much for a long time either, because he was HFA for so long. The companion behavior... aaaaarrgh!!! I don't care what's the chicken or the egg with my alcoholic, addict, narcissistic, abusive ex... but it sure as heck is a problem and I find solace, support and wisdom here...

amy55

Did want to clear up one thing about my post. Yes I am an alcoholic, my drinking didn't destroy the marriage. I was a self medicator. I was perfectly happy not drinking, I drank at the end of my relationship to shut the voices up in my head. His voices. Problem was, I left my marriage in 2008, and I was still drinking heavily in 2011 when I joined here. Note, this isn't an excuse, just a more accurate picture of what I meant. At first I blamed the r/s for my drinking, but we all know that was an excuse, because I continued even though I got out of that r/s.

Katiekate

Don't most alcoholics drink to self medicate???

You can separate the abuse from the alcoholism, but the reality is, is that abuse and alcoholism go hand and hand, the abuse will escalate as the disease progresses.


Not saying that is true in your case.

amy55

I glad to hear that Praying. My ex was also HFA. Went to work everyday, or at least I think he did. Never got a DUI, but was arrested for DV because I called 911. There is alot of support here, compassion and wisdom here. Glad to see you are sticking around.

(((hugs)))

HopefulinFLA

Amy, you do belong here. You have so much relevant experience to share. I for one, appreciate that you do!

amy55

in

I think I need to disagree with abuse and alcoholism go hand in hand. I do agree that they are both progressive though. Not every alcoholic is abusive, and not everyone who is abusive is an alcoholic. To me, they are 2 separate issues, and I will not disagree that someone who is drinking will not get abusive, but the definition of abuse is that it is a constant pattern of control.

I for one, was someone who wanted no confrontation, and usually hid in the garage out of fear.

amy55

Don't worry, or maybe you should. I'm not going anywhere. I think I needed to post this because sometimes I have heard that people didn't feel this was the right place for them, because the issue was more abuse then alcoholism.

This place can't get rid of me that easy !!!!!!!!!!

Katiekate

I did not mean to imply that all alcoholics are abusive or that all abusive people drink.

Stung

I think the majority of us have extra stuff going on in addition to the alcoholism. Sometimes the alcoholism is the most destructive, sometimes its not.

I'm very grateful for the wide mix of people on here and all of the issues that are discussed in addition to alcoholism because it has helped me understand what exactly is going wrong in my own life.

I think the seasoned peeps are invaluable in helping us newer ones. You belong here as much as anyone else does.

amy55

Thanks, and I understand that. I do know when I was drinking like that I thought I was not being abusive, but I was in fact. I had children living at home, they were teenagers then, but I wasn't there for them, and that is abuse. I will not and don't give myself an excuse for that. I was suffering in my own pain, and I wasn't seeing theirs.

theuncertainty

Thank you, Amy. I come and go from here quite a bit. Between here and a forum for SA survivors. I worry that I blur the lines here because I'm not always sure of what is attributable to his alcoholism vs his abusive behavior. Sometimes it's quite clear for me, other times the two issues are so inter-connected...

amy55

I had a really long post for you, but I lost it. It's after 2 in the morning here, so I need to get back to this tomorrow.

LightInside

My idea is that, if a person has a problem or a character defect, the disease will bring it out and exacerbate it. That problem would just worsen as the disease progresses. I think that's even true for me as a codependent (my problem being depression, clutter, and lack of cleaning).

My example with my X is lying. We all know that most alcoholics lie, but do they all? Not all pathological liars are alcoholics. My X probably started lying in high school before or at the same time that he started drinking (I mean beyond the typical childhood/adolescent "normal" stuff). We all know that lies beget lies, but I can no longer see what is true or false about my X and who he is, what he really thinks and feels. He is a chameleon. Some of his lies are huge. Some are so tiny and unnecessary ( Well, they're all unnecessary, right?).
I don't know. This is all just me wondering, speculating. The narcissism part too - are all alcoholics narcissistic? I don't think so. Is my X? Absolutely! Has it progressed parallel to his disease? I think so...

About who belongs where - I have found a little help at the surviving infidelity site that had forums much like here. I found a lot of relief recently by going to psychopathfree.com and looking at their articles and forums. I don't think my X is a true psychopath or NPD, but the feelings of the survivors are what I could relate to. I think that is the point for me.

We've heard of this concept, "terminal uniqueness." I definitely have less similar feelings with people whose beloved addicts are their children. I also seek out people who were left/abandoned/dumped by their A's, because that is the biggest thing I try to make sense of or resolve in my heart.

My sponsor just told me today that if I would go to more meetings, I would probably find more people who have had the same experience of being left by the A. She doesn't think it's as uncommon as I do.

A question I have had regarding the failure of my relationship with the A and the poor treatment I have received from him is, "How much can I blame on the alcoholism?" [I don't mean this in the context of my contributions to the scenario.] It almost feels too good/relieving to just blame it all on alcohol/addiction.

Seren

You are always welcome here, Amy....

lillamy

Good thread!!! I've often asked myself the same question -- what is what here?

But your experiences are so useful, for me and for many others I'm sure. I, for one, am very happy you are posting here.

BlueSkies1

Alcoholism is abusive, period. Even an angel that drank their "share" daily would be abusive, if to nobody but themselves. It feels abusive to me just watch it, watching someone abuse mostly only themselves, their brain, their health.

It's all tied in.
Most here suffer from mental abuse and it can be just as damaging as physical abuse.

I don't think you can separate your ex's drinking from his abuse. There's a slight chance that if he had been sober, he might have questioned his behavior. That he hurt you while sober sometimes doesn't mean that he wasn't thinking from his drunk selfish self-this was the path he was on. Rewiring the thought patterns to a different path, sober takes years...not hours, to think--I should respect my wife, I should be grateful for my wife, I should cherish my wife, I should protect my wife...etc., change the behavior, and mean it.

You belong!

wellnowwhat

Amy: I am always glad to see you post your E, S & H to a newcomer who needs it, especially when abuse is involved.

You are always able to post credible advice with empathy and in language that does not re-victimize the newcomer.

Thank you for sharing all your hard won wisdom.

JustAGirl1971

Amy, the event that brought me here wasn't really about the alcohol either. I came here after my ds left my house because of verbal & emotional abuse (plus threat of physical abuse) by his father. Things had escalated in our home to the point that we never knew each day who we would get - the nice guy, or the verbally abusive guy. The verbally abusive guy appeared frequently enough when my STBXAH was sober, and the nice guy could be present when he was drunk. Just depended on the circumstances and his frame of mind that day. He also has some history of physical abuse... most of it earlier in our marriage... It was a counselor who suggested that it wasn't just signs of depression or mental illness that he was exhibiting, but signs of alcoholism, too. That's how I ended up here.

My father is also an alcoholic. He has never been physically abusive to me, my siblings, or my mother. He can, however, be verbally abusive at times... not frequently and not the norm, but I do think a certain amount of verbal/emotional abuse does occur with most alcoholics as the disease escalates.

I will also be honest and say that I can now see how some of my controlling behaviors could be seen as abusive, too.

I agree with Stung, I think there are a lot of us who are dealing with more than just plain alcoholism. I really appreciate your posts, Amy. Although I can relate on some level with those in really abusive situations, my experience is so different that I do not feel qualified to help them in any way. I really appreciate that there are posters like you and lilamy to help guide them.