FourTwentyOne

STBEXAH has been out of the house for 6 weeks now. The first two weeks were filled with making necessary arrangements for the kids and I, so we could continue going to school and work, living in our home, and getting on with things.

During that time AH pretty much stayed away, didn't call and didn't come over much. It was quiet and the kids and I began to work on healing. I know that will be a long process, but the school and daycare both made comments about the kids' improved behaviour during that second week.
For the past 4 weeks we have been riding the drama-coaster. AH has been doing all sorts of delightful things to get to me. He says he loves me and wants me back but then he tries to threaten and guilt me into having him come home.

I got to thinking -- if I had done something wrong, and was truely sorry, I would try appologizing, I might send an I'm sorry card, or nice texts and say nice things. I would not tell my children that AH is a bad person and won't let me come home. I have not said one nasty thing about him to the children - it is not their fault, and not their responsibility to try and make things right between the adults in their lives who are supposed to love and care for them.

So, I have been working on not taking up the fight when he throws down the glove. I am practicing my meeting chair skills! Keeping the conversation on topic, avoiding taking the bait when he tries to accuse me of things in order to reopen the debate over staying married, and eventually I end up having to say "okay, meeting over". It would be easier to avoid him all together, but we have 3 children together, and the law says he has the right to access. Theory says that kids need to bond with and spend time with both of their parents. I wonder about that, especially when he is not able to be civil to me, and keeps saying hurtful things to the kids.

So, today I made an appointment with a lawyer. I will file for custody, so that I can at least register my youngest for school, decide where we will live etc.

Any thoughts on visitation? How do you handle dealing with the kids, with your EXA?

No matter how many times I said to him I would give him the time to work through his therapy, I would wait while he started a program of recovery, but that I would not live with him and the kids would not be allowed to ride the drama-coaster anymore, but that we would wait and take it one day at a time and see how things progressed, he won't hear me. He kept calling and harassing me, pressuring me and trying to make me feel like it is my fault he is the way he is, he did the things he did, and that our marriage is falling apart because of me, not him, not his addiction. So I have had enough, and I told him he isn't working on his issues, he keeps telling me he won't wait for 6 months, if it will take 6 months he wants a divorce now. I keep telling him I don't know how long it will take.

The more he calls and comes over and continues to behave in the same ways, the more I remember the bad times, the reasons I asked him not to come home after he left. And now I have decided I just am not willing to wait anymore. I wanted to give him time, but I can't do this anymore. I am breaking down crying daily, he is influencing the kids in a horrible way, we need healing and the kids need to find out how people are supposed to behave. I told him I am done, I don't want him to be my husband anymore, and I cannot live with him any more. He won't hear me. He keeps saying he is not done, he doesn't want this to be over, he wants to fix things.

He keeps saying why are you doing this to me? You are causing me to be depressed, to lose weight, not to sleep etc. I don't understand what I did wrong.

Okay, so I didn'T start this to complain about him and his behaviour, I just wanted to say what it has been like. I have made my decision, I will file for custody, and then see if I can get mediation started for separation.

Anyone have any advice on how to help the kids through this? My 6yo DS feels abandoned by AH, because of what AH has told him, he thinks I am the reason Daddy can't live at home, that I am just mean and Daddy has said he is better now, and Mommy has to say he can come off time out. DS wants to sleep in my room at night, can't sleep without a hand or foot on me, I think he is afraid I will be gone in the morning too. He keeps packing a bag and saying he is going to live with Daddy, says that everyone hates him, and he doesn't feel welcome in the house anymore (all things he has heard AH say).

DD who just turned 5 is openly defiant. She lies constantly, and is very moody. The kids all saw AH lie to me, using my poor vision against me; I couldn't see that he was lieing, although I am not stupid and there are other ways to tell, but they could see he was lieing. She has learned very well how to do things Mommy can't see and lie about it.

My youngest is starting to argue with me. She is 3, and has always been my little ray of sunshine. She is helpful and loving and smiley and dancey But she is starting to lose that.

I don't know how to explain to them about why Daddy can't live at home anymore. I keep reassuring them that Mommy loves them, Daddy loves them, they didn't do anything wrong.

DG0409

Hey 4:21,

Been a while since I've seen a post from you, so I'm glad to read an update from you, although I'm sorry things are so tough for you right now. All things considered, it does seem that you are moving in a very positive direction, even though it may not feel like it to you right now.

Keep being the rock you are for your kids. I think with time they will see what the real deal is.

Kudos to you for trying not to engage in his arguments. And hugs.

As they say, this too shall pass.

February13

I think you should look into supervised visitation.
I don't know much about it though.
I was told that kids who don' t see their dads tend to idolize them.

I took my daughter to a play therapist ( I got a subsidized spot) my daughter loved it, I
think it helped her some and it helped me understand where she was at better . Also the
therapist was able to help me figure out what to tell my daughter about us not living
with Daddy anymore.

cynical one

12 Steps to Divorcing a Drug Addict

FourTwentyOne

Thanks for the 12 steps!

AH says he is no longer using. He is attending anger management therapy sessions, and says he is going to NA meetings. He thinks he is working on himself, and now I need therapy because I am psychotic apparently. Not sure where that came from.

I saw something else in another post:ç
Blame = Denial
Whoa. . . good words. When I think of AH, I picture his name with a giant red stamp over it, that says FAULT! like you might see PAID or SOLD! on a paper. He is all about blame.

I have lost all trust in him. I cannot believe anything he says. He continues to lie to me, he lied to me on the weekend about me, I called BS. I said don't you dare tell me that when you and I both know that is a complete lie. So I know he is not "fixed" like he says. He keeps saying he is so sorry and he wants me back. I keep saying "I don't believe you, I will never trust you again, I'm getting off the drama-coaster".

hopeful4

It is really great you are making this decision. Get your children into therapy...now. Once you file, because he cares more about himself than saying hurtful things to the kids, it will get worse.

You can try for supervised visitation, but if he is actively working a program (or can convice someone he is), it is likely they will give him unsupervised. So..document, document, document every single thing he says, what time he said it, and the date. You need to establish facts if you will have to fight for custody.

Do not accept any blame, his actions are his. Only one of you is going to put the kids first, and that person is going to be you. Your kids will eventually be old enough to realize his actions don't match up with his words. However, at their young age they will not, so the therapy ASAP is critical.

I hope you are also getting lots of support for yourself.

Tight Hugs.

Praying

I'm so, so sorry that you're going through this right now.

I agree with others--document, document, document. To me it sounded like cheating on him, or giving up, but I'm so glad I kept doing it, for multiple reasons. One, to have if needed in a battle pending how things progressed. Two, for myself, to contradict his claims that I'm crazy (I needed to see truths recorded in black and white because his manipulation and blame had me confused about my memories at times). Three, because as I watched it unfold on paper, it was very hard to keep my hopeful denial in place...it kept me very grounded in what was actually happening, not falsely clinging to the good stuff.

I feel so much for what your kids are going through, and I understand how painful and terribly frustrating (that word doesn't do it justice) it is to take the high road while dealing with your kids' anger and uncertainty over what he is saying about you and the situation...as well as just dealing with the situation itself.

My two kids were preteen through this experience, so it's a little different in how they responded, but in many ways similar. Both pulled inward socially. One started sleeping with me every night. The other cried himself to sleep each night while I sat with him. One couldn't eat, one ate too much. They struggled to attend school. They were all over the place, and they'd lash out periodically with statements like "that's not what Dad said!" or other things. Honestly, I don't think Dad even remembered half of what he said. While much of it trickled out from the kids, some I will never know.

I can tell you that as much as I hated it (and of course felt cynical and angry about it all), I'm still glad I managed to stay on the high road. People have said that our kids will see the truth, and respect us more for our position. It's hard to trust in that, but I can tell you they probably already see more than you know, even at their young ages. It's just so confusing and their worlds are being rocked. My kids...they knew a heck of a lot more than I did. Even if they didn't have the words for it.

Trust in yourself. You are their rock and their safe space. It's a horribly lonely, demanding, unappreciated place to be! For now, that is. I always tried to keep my mind on the "someday".

My kids are a little over a year out from it all. We still have a LOT of work to do, and a lot of their anger to work through. Things keep unfolding and changing just when they get their feet under them. But I see it improving. (Un)fortunately in my world Dad has less and less credibility based on his actions, and they bounce back each time more quickly as they lose faith and trust in him.

But it does get better. Though I still think of "someday", my kids are eating again, mostly sleeping well (in their own beds), and socializing again. Nothing compares to the torture of watching them crumble. But the joy of watching them heal, knowing that they'll be even stronger... And if there's a silver lining in this cloud, it's the closeness that I know will be there between my kids and me at the end of it all. That is love.

I don't know how to let them have an unsupervised visit, nor how to prove the drugs in court as he's VERY sharp. I'm navigating that as we speak. When we left, I thought it was "just alcohol" (yes, I know that's crazy talk in itself-it's ADDICTION!!!), but the progression to drugs has made him much scarier and volatile, and I refuse to send the kids there. When I told him I wanted to leave with them, I think he saw the fight in my eyes, and coupled with his desire to keep hiding things...he let me do it. Because he couldn't look at me, and couldn't bear if I fought in court. (I was expecting the blame rage.) I'm hoping the same will work regarding his already limited visitation. The courts seem so willing to force kids in these situations. It terrifies me.

Stay strong! I will be with you, hoping and praying for the best outcome for you and your kids, wherever it may take you. Message me if you'd like to chat more.

((Hugs))

jjj111

4:21, I think it's very courageous of you to make changes that will bring you and your children some peace. It sounds like your kids have already picked up some of your STBX's behaviors. My guess is that with some time and some distance from him, they will get some perspective on their Dad and find a more peaceful way of relating to you. My father was an alcoholic/rageaholic, and I definitely picked up some of his attitudes toward my Mom without even realizing it. It was only later, as an adult, that I realized that I had learned to have such a sh***y attitude toward her by watching my Dad, and when I did realize it, I felt so much guilt. Your children are very lucky to have a mother who is willing to find her own path and break free of an unhappy marriage while they are young enough to grow past it. Big hugs!

FourTwentyOne

Thank you all again! This is really hard. STBEXAH came by again last night to take DS to hockey. He stood there, told me he is so sorry. He said his therapist dropped him, and referred him to an intensive program for abusive partners. He got all teary and said he is so broken, and he doesn't want to lose me. It is so hard not to give in at moments like that.

But after he left, I thought about it, how he stood there looking like he was trying not to cry, and then I thought no, he was standing there trying to cry. ...trying to look pathetic. Then i felt horrible for thinking that. Then I felt stupid for second guessing myself. Then i berated myself for getting back onto that drama-coaster. Grrrr!

If he was actually upset, or if he was pretending to be upset, it doesn't matter. My good Catholic upbringing teaches me I have to forgive, always have to give people another chance, and another. I have to give myself and my kids a new chance at happiness, and to hell with him -- and if I don't post anymore, start checking Canadian news for a woman struck down by lightning for saying that!!! *grin*

Today I have an appointment with the lawyer to try and file for custody. That will give me the legal right to decide where the kids and i will move to this summer, and where they will go to school. I believe it will also allow me to get travel documents for them, and we will be able to take a much deserved vacation somewhere, if it takes me selling some things I don't need anymore to raise the funds to afford it.

Because I can't drive, and live too far to walk to anything but the mailbox, I can't take the kids to therapy now, but I plan to ask the school if they offer any counselling services at all. I know they have some sort of a social worker. As far as help for me goes, I keep reading everything i can on SR for now. Once we move I will be able to take the kids to play therapy and myself to some sort of groups or seminars etc.

The doubt I feel now about taking this big step - legally filing for custody -- is due to the claim that AH has stopped using. He has not, as far as I have proof, actually had any professional help to treat his addiction. I worry that I am abandoning him, when he has finally seen the light. .... but so far his behaviour towards me is angry and spiteful. While my original reasons for asking him to stay out of the house after he left were because of his active addiction, and his anger, my reasons for continueing down the path are because of his current attitude. Is his current attitude a direct result of me keeping him out of the house. ... what a vicious cycle of doubt. I will go forward with my plans, and hope that I don't feel horribly guilty for the rest of my life!!!

jjj111

4:21, when I hear that his therapist dropped him--to me that is a huge red flag! He may have presented it in a very pitiful way, but most therapists don't drop clients without a very good reason. She may have been alarmed by things he was saying, or he may have acted out toward her. In fact, you might even want the therapist to provide information on your behalf if that's possible when you file for custody. Maybe ask your lawyer if that's possible and/or a good idea? My own therapist was telling me the other day that therapist's do get involved in these things sometimes.

penny9175

4:21, good luck to you. It sounds like you're set and know your game plan, and that's great. It's a hard time for you and your kids, and I am sending hugs your way.

FourTwentyOne

That was what he was telling me when he was standing there "trying not to cry". That his therapist dropped him, and told him he needed more than what he could offer. But since everything he says is a lie, I don't know if I believe him. Maybe he decided not to pay the bill, or maybe he just decided to stop going. .. I am putting the therapy through my insurance, since we are still legally married, and he has to give me the receipts. He lied about the number of times he went to therapy and had to confess when he only had two receipts to claim. We argued about that again on the weekend, and so of course my mind jumps right to wondering if he is just covering up for not still going. ... and then I decided I don't care. I just don't care. The proof is in the pudding, and so far there is nothing but rotten apples. He has not shown that he can act like a mature human being, he could not even put his resentment aside for 5 minutes at our daughter's birthday party on the weekend, could not even say one word to me that was not dripping with hate, and tried to engage everyone else at the party into talking about us, our failing marriage, and my unwillingness to "give him a chance".

hopeful4

Don't analyze his therapy or anything else about him. Just keep moving forward. Contact the school social worker immediately, they can be of immense help.

Be prepared for him to either give in and say you can have custody and do what you want or to lie like a dog about using, this is why I say document EVERY SINGLE THING. Pull the claims and prove he has only used therapy very limited. Be prepared to establish he has a drug problem, that will be first.

For now, relax. I think it's great you are going to go on a vacation. You deserve some rest and peace as do your children. It is a baby step at a time and I think you are doing great. We here are SR will walk this with you!

Praying

You are so, so brave! I can so relate to that very moment--the teary brokenness, the urge that you need to forgive, the questioning his motives, the guilt afterwards... we can probably thank the catholic upbringing for that part too

Peace and strength to you. You're doing a great job of looking at actions, not his words. And you still have your sense of humor!

If it helps in times of doubt-- I DID pause due to the tears and remorse and claims of sobriety, due to so much doubt, the need to "forgive", and the fear that I was abandoning him in his time of need when he was finally turning the corner. However, the true colors eventually showed through his actions, which never seemed to match his words.

In my experience, the anger/spite/tears cycle is all part of the addiction. It's an obvious sign he's not healed, even if he's not using. It can't be a healthy environment for your family. I finally told myself--if I don't know where we're headed, which is worse if I'm wrong? Then I put the blinders on and charged forward. (The doubt remained, I just forced it to sit behind me on the bus- I'm driving this thing!!)

And you've already decided the answer to that question for your family. Trust yourself. It's a tough, tough time, but when the doubt creeps in, keep kicking it aside.

Hugs to you!

FourTwentyOne

I met with the lawyer. I feel so much better, but nervous at the same time.

My #1 concern was custody. That is what prompted me to go today. I need to move into the city over the summer, and I will need to register the kids in a new school. Here, you technically need both parents to register a child for school, so if he were to put up a fuss, without my having full custody, it might cause problems. I asked about how the system works, what it will mean if I do have full custody or if I don't, etc.

We went over all the threats STBEXAH has been making -- you will have to pay me spousal support, I will get half your pension, I will fight you for custody etc. The lawyer assured me that the way our finances sit now, because we owe so much money, and based on what we had when we got married compared to what we had on the day he moved out, he will not get my pension, I will not have to pay him spousal support, and I will get custody because he moved out and left the kids with me. PERIOD

The process starts with an e-mail! That was shocking really. No serving of papers, no registered mail. The lawyer will send AH an e-mail to say we need to speak to his lawyer about Access and selling the house.

On the subject of Supervised Access, he said that really if we got it, AH's parents would end up being the supervisors more than likely, even if we were able to make a case for an Access Centre, it would be for the period of 6 months or a year, and if in that time he was able to keep his cool, he would be awarded regular access anyways. since I don't think he is a physical danger to the kids, it is better to try to leave it at regular Access right now.

On the subject of debts, since AH is unemployed, he said suck it up. For what we owe, it would cost me a lot of money to fight him in court to have a judge order him to pay half the debts, and you can't get blood from a stone - he is not working, so he can't pay.

I am nervous about how he will react to the e-mail. I hope it doesn't cause him to call me up raging, or worse come over raging. Earlier this week he had agreed to try to find a neutral third party to work out the details like property division and custody. I just went ahead and did that, through a lawyer rather than third party mediation. You can't effectively use mediation with someone who is being spiteful. The lawyer recommended going this route.

Put your seat backs and trays in the upright and locked position, we are taxying down the runway in preparation for take-off to a new brighter future. ....

cleaninLI

4/21 you are an amazing woman! Just reading this new thread of yours moves me to tears! I remember you from way back when....in fact it wasn't so long ago. But it may as well have been....because the strides you've made in your life are astronomical!

Are you sure you are the same woman? Ha!

"Put your seat backs and trays in the upright and locked position, we are taxying down the runway in preparation for take-off to a new brighter future. ...."

Wow, if this is your strength for take off....I can hardly imagine what it will be through out the flight!

hopeful4

Good for you for taking charge and moving forward.

Tight Hugs!

jjj111

4:21, good for you for talking to a lawyer! It must be very empowering to have a better idea that the law is on your side in many ways, as far as custody, spousal support, etc. I just want to ask: do you feel really confident that he isn't a danger to the children? You have described some kind of scary behavior in past posts: reckless driving with the children in the car, biting himself in a fit of anger, putting a hole in a wall with his head, possibly using hard drugs as well as pot. I'm just wondering whether it would be worth having some kind of supervised access? Even if he did keep his cool for a year and ultimately get unsupervised, it would still be a relief to have that trial period. Also, do you think you might be able to get some kind of arrangement that would keep you from having to interact with him over custody, like some kind of third party hand off for his visits? It seems like it might be easier for you if you could get a break from his manipulations. You shouldn't have to live in fear that he will show up at your house in a rage! Good luck, and good work!

Praying

...and let's not forget, shortly after takeoff you hit 10,000 feet, where you can kick back, watch a movie, and be served snacks.

FourTwentyOne

I feel like while he was living at the house, I was living in some sort of thick bubble that clouded my thinking and slowed my actions. Now that I am not with him every single day, and I keep reading posts here that I might as well have written about his words and behaviour instead of the actual poster, I know that I am right, and I am doing the only thing that I can in good conscience for my kids.

The lawyer explained that since I don't have any previous records with the police about his behaviour, and I don't have any proof of any drug use other than MJ, I probably would not get supervised visits, and if I did, they would not be at a centre, they would be done by most likely his parents. Right now both of them have been living with AH for over 6 weeks, and since he is unemployed and they are retired, they have had a lot of time to spend assuring themselves that I am in the wrong. So I feel that is probably not the best solution.

While I don't like AH driving the kids around, or being unsupervised with them, it would seem I don't have a lot of choice just at the moment. So, what I can do is control how he gets to spend time with the kids. So he will take DS to hockey, and DD2 to ballet one night a week each. He has to have them directly back home because they need to get to bed as soon as they get home. On the weekends, he can come to visit at the house one night each weekend for now, and I will stay in the back half of the house and get some laundry done and actually get to read my book! That way he can visit with the kids, but he and I don't have to be in eachother's faces.

Once we live where I can get around by bus, I might be able to work something out where I drop the kids off to him for visits, or maybe he really is working his recovery and he will be safer. That remains to be seen.