In a weird place.

Old 02-15-2014, 08:27 AM
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In a weird place.

Good Morning Campers, I need a place to put down my thoughts and get some feedback. Any and all opinions welcome.

A little background, I left my AW almost 3 years ago. We are separated but not divorced. I have move a thousand miles away from her in that time and to be honest I am doing great and my recovery is strong, for the most part.

The first issue. I looked at us as 2 boats tied together by a bunch of ropes. So far I have cut all the ropes except for 1 little tiny rope. I think that one little tiny rope is the reason I haven't pulled the trigger on the divorce. I'm having a hard time with it because it feels to me that if I cut that rope I have to admit I wasn't able to save her. I know I can't save her, that's not the problem. I think at some deep level I am still dealing with guilt. Guilt that I couldn't save the marriage and guilt that I couldn't save her. I don't even notice it unless a spend time poking around in my head. Not too weird and I'm working my way through it. I just thought I would be beyond that by now. So, for the time being until I work this out I'll stick with when in doubt, don't. At least as it pertains to the divorce.

The weird issue is that I carry around an analog of her in my head. In the beginning of my separation I would have huge screaming fights with it/her in my head. Now, I just find myself talking to it, saying things I wish I could say to AW but know there is no way I could. I'm reaching the point where I know that I need to shut this analog off. I think it may have something to do with the guilt above. As long as I keep the analog turned on I have saved at least a little piece of her. Of course this isn't true but I am still clinging to it for some reason. To heal completely I have to let go. Not sure how I'll do this but if I come up with a way I'll be glad to share it. If anyone else has got past this I am open to advice.

For people who are early in their recovery don't let this scare you. My life is so much better that it was back then and 90 percent of the time I am solid, happy and serene in my recovery. Speaking from experience life gets so much better when you work your recovery.

Thanks for letting me share.

Edit: Perhaps I should pay attention to my own signature? I do believe I am clinging to a bit of the past, or better yet, a fantasy of how the past should have been. Detachment begins when you give up the fantasy that you can have a happier past.

Your friend,
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Old 02-15-2014, 08:33 AM
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Guilt robs you of the happiness of today. I don't have experience with this, but I wish you the best. Prayers.
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Old 02-15-2014, 08:48 AM
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Speaking only for myself, I notice when the future is uncertain and I am feeling a bit fearful about what lies ahead, that's when I want to hang on to the past. For me, it's a comfortable place to retreat when life is feeling uncomfortable, for whatever reason.

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Old 02-15-2014, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by m1k3 View Post
To heal completely I have to let go. Not sure how I'll do this
Do you pray? It sounds like over time, you've come to a significant awareness of your powerlessness over this, which is admirable and something to be proud of.

For me, recognizing powerlessness is where admitting that a power greater than myself could help me to let go. I didn't have to carry guilt or responsibility because the loving God of my understanding would carry the burden for me. So prayer was and still is incredibly freeing for me. In the moments I have those thoughts of burden in my head/heart, it helps to send up that prayer. To just turn it over and say "It's yours, not mine, do with it what you will, God. Thank you." The healing is gradual but I work with the baby steps and the relief that it gives me in that moment.
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:22 AM
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No, I don't pray but I do have a mindfulness program which works very well for me. I am fine 90% of the time. I currently have just this one hiccup with the virtual AW in my head.

I say currently because it seems like every time I clear one issue up another will pop up in the future. The good part is that I am at a point in my recovery where the issues aren't that big but seem to be much more subtle, and they don't happen near as often.

I don't want to ignore them because that's how they become big issues.

Your friend,
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:32 AM
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Mike,

Maybe you need to make a formal goodbye ritual to this analog? If I understand you, this analog is now more of a comfort and you tell her things. This is not your active A screaming back at you or ignoring you. You no longer have fights with it. Since you have recognized these last ties of guilt regarding the relationship, it seems to me you are on the cusp of divorce. That you are preparing to let go and move into your future. That is a natural point to pause I think.

Maybe write a letter and burn it? Maybe talking to your HP might help bring about an idea for a kind closure too. I wish you peace and healing Mike!
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:49 AM
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Mike-

I did a mindfullness course which I practice on my own.

My teacher for the course also did a mindfullness based therapy (as does my regular therapist).

The work I do with her is about those repeated pieces that come up that mindfullness by myself does not truly "work through." Often for me it is about the stuff that I cannot fully sit with by myself (though I often can AFTER I do it with someone else).

For me it is the stuff that I cannot sit with that sends me back into older more familiar places like I think you are describing.

Disclaimer on the above-some of what I am experience and working on right now is more about my eating disorder stuff then it is about my relationship stuff. No big deal if it does not resonate.
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:29 PM
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So far I have cut all the ropes except for 1 little tiny rope. I think that one little tiny rope is the reason I haven't pulled the trigger on the divorce. I'm having a hard time with it because it feels to me that if I cut that rope I have to admit I wasn't able to save her.

This is what kept me sick for a long time, the whole saving thing, thinking surely he will see, I had to cut that rope. It was the rope of my own dis-ease.

I know for sure that I had to do it in my own time and in my own way.

I just hated the discomfort of the whole thing.
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Old 02-15-2014, 02:51 PM
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Mike,
I remember you being one of the first repliers to one of my threads when I joined here. And I am so thankful for that.

I deal with this analog - this ghost in the machine. I have a therapist, and I also have SR. Someone wrote to me that if she is leaving me voicemail messages, even if I don't respond, she is still talking to me. It sounds a lot like your analog.

The second thing I will say is what my therapist said to me. She said that allowing this analog to talk to me is like a form of 'using'. Not using in the personal sense like using a person for something, but like using in the addiction sense. I will not apply that to you because I don't know anything, but I too feel so much guilt as well and this analogy made sense to me. But by allowing this analog to talk to me, I am 'using' and kicking myself.

This analog is not allowed to talk to me now (or at least I hit the mute button as much as I can), even though in some ways I want to talk to it, I want to listen to her, I want to hear her feelings, and I feel guilty about so many ways we did not communicate and ways I could not 'help' her. But it was never in my power. I shouldn't feel guilty - I noticed recently that she's not mad at me for cutting off contact, she's mad at me for cutting off her 'supply' and trying to get better myself. I miss her so much, I loved her so much, but she doesn't _get_ to talk to me through this analog anymore.

I can tell you have worked on this, and who am I to give any advice - my analog is still there, but in my case, it is a fire raging from afar, and I could listen to it and think 'see, you couldn't extinguish this and make a future', or I could look at it and see that it is burning the world to the ground, and I wasn't even a firefighter - I was more like a tree in the middle of it all. I'm combustible lol. It wasn't my fault that she is this way. I loved her, but I couldn't love her 'out' of this.

I carry in my heart that I always did the right thing with her (I'm not perfect but man I tried hard for her), and it just didn't work. She is immune to this, so why would her analog react any differently.

Maybe some of this makes sense. I'm working on switching off the analog myself, and sometimes it is very loud, and the guilt is tremendous. I know I couldn't help her, and my issues are a little different than guilt sometimes - it's hard to type out. It's like I know I made the right choice, but why did I make the right choice? But maybe you can take something from this, as I have from your posts.
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Old 02-15-2014, 03:07 PM
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Like Blake, I see my analog as part of my addiction to him. If I give it any power, it can easily lead to a dark place, so I try never to entertain it.

You have come so far and are such an inspiration. Thank you for sharing you recovery with all us. (((Hugs)))
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Old 02-15-2014, 03:29 PM
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Many years ago, I was in an Outward Bound type survival program. One of the "experiences" (wry smile as I write that) was to go rappelling, which I had never done. It also wasn't optional.

One my biggest life lessons ever came from that "experience."

Strapped into a hip harness, I went over the corner of the cliff, deer hide gloves over my hands, holding the rope. As I leaned backwards over the corner of the cliff, my body weight became what felt like exponentially heavier, holding the rope in my hands.

There comes a tilt point, going over a cliff, where one is first backing up horizontally to the edge, but then one transitions to vertical OVER the edge, when one's arms and feet cannot sustain the body weight. The hip harness must take the weight.

I had to come to total, shaking, muscle fatigue, before my strength failed and I had to release the weight from my hands, and let it transfer to the hip harness.

What did I learn?

That sometimes you must DO first, in order to get to that point of feeling safety. There was NO WAY my brain was EVER going to let go of that rope with my hands, voluntarily, and TRUST that hip harness.

But the instant my arms failed and that weight transferred to the hip harness, I had my proof that it would hold me, and I was fine.

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Old 02-15-2014, 03:35 PM
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How about a little troop talk?

3 years?

If you were going to think your way through this, you would have been there a while ago.

You likely need to go get some strange.

Ask Lewis for details.
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Old 02-15-2014, 04:18 PM
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Thanks for all the replies everyone. Excellent advice given. I sort of had a plan when I posted this but your replies have helped clear things up in my head.

Since I am a sci-fi geek I have come up with an approach that combines that and the good info I received here. For the next week I am going to use a visual meditation where I see myself turning off the analog/android version living in my head. I don't need it anymore. In addition I am going to focus my mindfulness on shutting down any internal conversations with the analog. I used this in the past when dealing with the fights I was having in my head with my AW. If I can break the circuit, so to speak, then the conversations will die off on there own.

I also want to make clear that this is a minor issue. I've cut 99 of 100 ropes tying us together. This is the last one and it's not the hardest. The first 30 or so where much harder than this. It's just that deep down I know it's over but if I don't cut this rope there is still a little connection with my wife, if not my AW. I hope that make sense.

It was also good to hear that I'm not the only one dealing with this. It makes it easier when you can see this is a normal part of the process and maybe isn't so weird after all.

Hammer, if I get your reference right where I'm at is just barely at the far side of the looking glass working up the courage to step back. I've been so long on the far side that it's hard to take that last step. Edit: The closest I can come to it was when I got out of the Marines. I looked forward to that day for so long and then I get home and I find out being home was scary. It's not that home had changed that much, I had.

Thanks again everyone for your help.

Your friend,
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Old 02-15-2014, 04:32 PM
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My therapist suggested writing him a letter, without sending it of course, to free myself of all ugly emotions including that undeserved guilt. I suspect I may have to that more then once because it is all very new.

For me, I struggled with compassion and guilt. The more compassionate I became regarding the disease, the guiltier I felt about savings myself.
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Old 02-15-2014, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by m1k3 View Post

Hammer, if I get your reference right where I'm at is just barely at the far side of the looking glass working up the courage to step back. I've been so long on the far side that it's hard to take that last step. Edit: The closest I can come to it was when I got out of the Marines. I looked forward to that day for so long and then I get home and I find out being home was scary. It's not that home had changed that much, I had.
Sure. You read it right.

Part of that "best way to over somebody is to get under somebody else."

Here is what I still suspect has you going -- You know the words in your head, It is your heart might not be taking deliver on the message.

3 years. Total Zombie.

Not coming back. Not the hill to die on.
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Old 02-16-2014, 04:25 PM
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Thanks, guys, especially Mike and Hammer.

Mike, like you, I am at a turning point. I do not mean to hijack your thread; I think that what I am feeling is akin to what you are writing about. It's like leaving the Marines, having dreamt of that day, and yet finding your feelings as you start the next chapter of your life to be so different than the pure joy you expected.

And just because everything is so good, I find myself freer than I have ever been from my XH and the past, yet looking over my shoulder in a way I never expected to.

It is 20 months since I fled my then abusive, rageful and alcoholic husband after 20 years of marriage. I ran away with my car, my dog, a few clothes, and some jewelry tools. I was terrified. My children helped me, and after a week, I found an apartment that was safe, in the midst of a beautiful little city, and a refuge. I borrowed an inflatable mattress, and moved in with that, a folding table, two folding chairs, a saucepan and a borrowed picnic basket. That was how I started out.

Now, I am in my own home and I have settled in. My living room has comfortable chairs, and my attic is renovated into a beautiful jewelry studio as of today. My son, daughter-in-law, their 20 month old twins, and my daughter and her boyfriend came today and moved all my heavy equipment up to my new studio. It is beautiful, filled with light, white, a most wonderful space to work in. I made homemade lasagna, and we had a family Sunday dinner. The community of having my family here in my home was heartwarming. (My XH had alienated them all and visits were scarce.)

So they went home, and I sat and found myself in tears, crying inconsolably. It was the last thing I ever expected of myself.

Catlovermi, I relate to your story of rappelling. I am over the cliff now, heading onward and I cannot stop my movement. I must begin the next edition of my life. I must earn my living again, and now I have the tools, quite literally, to do so.

Mike, when I read your post earlier, the word that came to me was nostalgia: "pleasure and sadness that is caused by remembering something from the past and wishing that you could experience it again".

What I am longing for, and what I am mourning can never be again. It is gone. That era is done. The exit door said "no return". I am so surprised to find myself looking backwards through the glass as if that were the place I wanted to be again.

Hammer, you are right: "You know the words in your head, It is your heart might not be taking delivery on the message."

I need courage to let my heart feel what I feel tonight, and accept that tomorrow I must put that aside and go to work on earning my way (both emotionally and financially) into what must no longer be the future, into what must be the now.

I hope I can get there. It seems very hard tonight. I feel worn and weary and tossed through so much tribulation, grief, and hard work to get here. And so lonely. It was so hard to have such a wonderful time with my family and then to have them leave, as they should, to go home to their own comforting lives, as they should.

More building to do. There is always tomorrow. Looking back and looking forward at the same time brings me to tears. Mike, you say that it is cutting the last tie, and I understand that. For me, it is accepting that nostalgia for what was good about the past is no longer relevant to what I must make of my future. Tonight is the pivot.

God bless us all. I will go to sleep saying "I will to will Thy will" and hope to wake in the sunlight eager to see what is in boxes of tools and gems that have been hidden for almost 2 years. And maybe an idea will come to me for what to design next.

I so value the support of this community and you who understand the travails of this passage we are taking from the depths of dysfunction and pain into health. Thank you. I have needed you often, and I need you tonight.

ShootingStar1
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Old 02-17-2014, 04:56 AM
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Shootingstar, thank you for that post ((((hugs)))). I think it's kind of funny that I'm 60 and I really didn't start growing up until I started my recovery. The program is both so simple and so hard. Seeing reality as it is and not how we want it to be.

I've made a lot of progress this weekend with everyone's help. I've done a couple of meditations were I turned off the analog, disassembled the pieces and thrown them away. It's been a lot quiter in my head because of that. It's strange but I feel some sadness and grief over that. I think the analog was more real to me than my AW.

Thanks to everyone who have been here for me during my journey. It makes it easier when you know you have such good friends who always have your back.

Your friend,
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:27 AM
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A therapist told me a long time ago that we have a little filing cabinet of explanations for anxiety and depression filed away in our heads, and we pull our "favorite" files when we are feeling general anxiety or depression to serve as our explanation tapes. I have a few: my tense relationship with my mom, my tense relationship with my sister, my self-pitying monologue I imagine delivering to my STBXAH, and all the honesty bombs I want to drop on my STBXAH's parents. Occasionally I go back to the oldest tape, the "I'm a worthless loser and nobody loves me" tape, but that's a rare day anymore.

A couple of years ago, as part of my process here, I realized none of these things were ever going to actually happen, and that some of my anger towards these people wasn't always based in reality. It was just me talking to myself, pulling files. When I start to play these tapes now, I pull back and think, okay, what's going on in my life? Where am I imbalanced? I HALT, put the tapes and files away, and take stock of where I need to focus my self-care efforts.

It's not about them -- it's my anxiety and depression spinning into action. When I'm in the shower at 6:30AM telling someone off in my mind, they have nothing to do with whatever is going on with me -- it's all me and my crazy. Thank dog I have tools now to manage it.
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Old 02-17-2014, 09:18 AM
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Florence, I know what your talking about and I agree.

OK, back into weird. In conference approved literature there is a lot of talking about how our ego or thinking gets in our way, that thoughts aren’t always true, that emotions aren't facts. In Buddhism there is the concept of “no self”. That much of our suffering comes from the internal dialogs and monologs in our heads.

So, I disassembled the analog of my wife and things got better and quieter. In the quiet I noticed another voice or analog. It seems that I have at least one analog of Mike in my head. It isn’t Me but I treat it as if it was Me. I am now in the process of hunting down and turning off the Mike analogs.

Part of this comes from reading the Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. The very first chapter is “You are not your mind”. Not that mind isn't important or doesn't have it uses it’s just that it isn't you. You are more than your thoughts and emotions. I know, common recovery stuff. But, what happens when you finally see your ego as a construct, a tool you use and why is this tool in charge. Pun intended.

Very interesting concept and it fits so well with where I am now in my recovery. My signature has “Serenity is just being yourself” and I still think that’s true. The question is who is myself. I am more than my analog, my ego, my thoughts and emotions. Since I have really started recovery I come to realize there is more to me than what I thought. I guess this is just the next step in the journey.

Your friend,
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