6,8,10 times
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6,8,10 times
On the PBS News Hour this evening, in the course of a discussion about heroin addiction, one of the guests noted that opiate addiction is an extremely hard addiction to beat and that a heroin addict relapses 6,8,10 times before achieving lasting sobriety.
It is so important that we here on the forum are direct with young newcomers about their involvement with heroin addicts, opiate addicts of all kinds, and avoid any whitewashing or false optimism regarding their addict boyfriend or girlfriend entering long-term treatment and succeeding on the first go, or even on the 3rd or 4th.
I say this because young adults are so fragile, and so much of what is set in motion follows them for the rest of their lives. If they marry an addict in their 20's or if they have a child with an addict while in their 20's or if they are arrested because they have been living in a drug house while in their 20's, the rest of their decades of life will be so damaged. There is always recovery for a codependent, but as with most things in life, it takes work, and as is common among the human species, most people would rather not. So they turn in on themselves, defeated, raise sad children who worry about their defeated parents, and all because when they were in their 20's someone gave them false hope that the addict they were romantically involved with would clean up shortly and in time for a happy life together.
Addiction is a snake that wraps itself into the interior organs and into the deepest recesses of the brain and of the soul of the addict. Recovery involves so much more than just an implant of an opiate agonist to block the effects or just the talk-therapy in a counselor's office about the addict's issues. Addiction has a grip. And so many young people come to this site hoping to find out how to save an addict, how to support an addict, how to make a relationship with an addict work out. What these young people need is the truth. The rest of their lives depend on it.
The death of Philip Seymour Hoffman shocked me in part because I did not know he was a heroin addict/alcoholic/coke addict/pill addict. His addiction apparently set in in his teens. He apparently got sober at 22. But if he drank socially between then and now--as has been reported--then he was never sober and his addiction was just shape-shifting. And if he had pain from surgery or an accident and he was given Vicodin or Percocet or Oxycontin on a temporary basis, his addiction began shape-shifting again. They say he relapsed last year, but I think it was probably years back.
I never am complacent anymore about what addiction does to the addict or to those in relationship to the addict. I never say "he is so lucky to have someone like you who believes in him." What I say is "be careful" "back away" "get a counselor" "go to Al-Anon" and "you need to wake up to the danger you're in." It is hard to cut through the romantic illusions of someone who has projected all her dreams onto a very messed up, distorted, emotionally disabled, psychologically chaotic, mentally tortured "soulmate." But I know that it is at least worth the effort.
I am a recovering codependent and my first alcoholic relationship was with a boy in college who never went anywhere without a six-pack of beer dangling from his long beautiful fingers. He had that thing that always drew me to alcoholics and drug addicts, that fluidity and fascination and the hint of torture behind the surface. He was so much more interesting than the boys majoring in government who had all their eagle scout badges lined up on the shelf. I liked alcoholics. I eventually married one. I lasted two years, the darkest, most emotionally violent two years of my life. I needed someone in my life back then who could have said to me, "He is an addict and you are going to suffer." But I had no one then to say it.
So I say it here, to others, as do most of us here:
The person you love and want to marry and to bond like glue to for a lifetime is going to make you suffer.
If an addict is not 100% clean and sober of all mind-altering substances and is not daily working a program of recovery and has not put recovery ahead of ambition, parenting, love-making, hobbies, trips, and that bike ride every morning, then that addict has a shape-shifting snake in charge of his mind and soul, and you are going to suffer.
No matter how beautiful his smile or how nice he is to children and dogs.
It is so important that we here on the forum are direct with young newcomers about their involvement with heroin addicts, opiate addicts of all kinds, and avoid any whitewashing or false optimism regarding their addict boyfriend or girlfriend entering long-term treatment and succeeding on the first go, or even on the 3rd or 4th.
I say this because young adults are so fragile, and so much of what is set in motion follows them for the rest of their lives. If they marry an addict in their 20's or if they have a child with an addict while in their 20's or if they are arrested because they have been living in a drug house while in their 20's, the rest of their decades of life will be so damaged. There is always recovery for a codependent, but as with most things in life, it takes work, and as is common among the human species, most people would rather not. So they turn in on themselves, defeated, raise sad children who worry about their defeated parents, and all because when they were in their 20's someone gave them false hope that the addict they were romantically involved with would clean up shortly and in time for a happy life together.
Addiction is a snake that wraps itself into the interior organs and into the deepest recesses of the brain and of the soul of the addict. Recovery involves so much more than just an implant of an opiate agonist to block the effects or just the talk-therapy in a counselor's office about the addict's issues. Addiction has a grip. And so many young people come to this site hoping to find out how to save an addict, how to support an addict, how to make a relationship with an addict work out. What these young people need is the truth. The rest of their lives depend on it.
The death of Philip Seymour Hoffman shocked me in part because I did not know he was a heroin addict/alcoholic/coke addict/pill addict. His addiction apparently set in in his teens. He apparently got sober at 22. But if he drank socially between then and now--as has been reported--then he was never sober and his addiction was just shape-shifting. And if he had pain from surgery or an accident and he was given Vicodin or Percocet or Oxycontin on a temporary basis, his addiction began shape-shifting again. They say he relapsed last year, but I think it was probably years back.
I never am complacent anymore about what addiction does to the addict or to those in relationship to the addict. I never say "he is so lucky to have someone like you who believes in him." What I say is "be careful" "back away" "get a counselor" "go to Al-Anon" and "you need to wake up to the danger you're in." It is hard to cut through the romantic illusions of someone who has projected all her dreams onto a very messed up, distorted, emotionally disabled, psychologically chaotic, mentally tortured "soulmate." But I know that it is at least worth the effort.
I am a recovering codependent and my first alcoholic relationship was with a boy in college who never went anywhere without a six-pack of beer dangling from his long beautiful fingers. He had that thing that always drew me to alcoholics and drug addicts, that fluidity and fascination and the hint of torture behind the surface. He was so much more interesting than the boys majoring in government who had all their eagle scout badges lined up on the shelf. I liked alcoholics. I eventually married one. I lasted two years, the darkest, most emotionally violent two years of my life. I needed someone in my life back then who could have said to me, "He is an addict and you are going to suffer." But I had no one then to say it.
So I say it here, to others, as do most of us here:
The person you love and want to marry and to bond like glue to for a lifetime is going to make you suffer.
If an addict is not 100% clean and sober of all mind-altering substances and is not daily working a program of recovery and has not put recovery ahead of ambition, parenting, love-making, hobbies, trips, and that bike ride every morning, then that addict has a shape-shifting snake in charge of his mind and soul, and you are going to suffer.
No matter how beautiful his smile or how nice he is to children and dogs.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In a good place
Posts: 4,482
That is my daughter you speak of and it's still the truth. Just for today she's still in recovery and I don't want an enabler in a relationship with her. They would both inevitably take each other down.
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,927
Yes this is the same information provided by National Institute of Drug Abuse; don't think it goes to 10.. but regardless. It is important for family / friends of all capacities to realize this, because so often they are disappointed when one rehab doesn't work, or a 10 day stay wasn't enough and a person relapses. The brain doesn't get rewired in a few weeks time....
However in sharing our own experiences we may find differences. My husbands addiction only went on for a little over a year before we led him into treatment of 90 days, and so far he is doing well 2 years out (almost) with only continued therapy. This is why I always find it important to share the importance of early treatment for those suffering with addiction. The longer it goes on, the deeper it invades a persons life structure the harder it is to put into remission so again say the experts. Regardless, there is always a risk of relapse at rates equal to other chronic medical illness.
The one thing I try to do is assume the person coming here for information is capable of making their own choices, and not necessarily codependent. I always feel they can take it all in, and breath it all out. I wish them well with whatever path they take. I don't have a crystal ball unfortunately.....
However in sharing our own experiences we may find differences. My husbands addiction only went on for a little over a year before we led him into treatment of 90 days, and so far he is doing well 2 years out (almost) with only continued therapy. This is why I always find it important to share the importance of early treatment for those suffering with addiction. The longer it goes on, the deeper it invades a persons life structure the harder it is to put into remission so again say the experts. Regardless, there is always a risk of relapse at rates equal to other chronic medical illness.
The one thing I try to do is assume the person coming here for information is capable of making their own choices, and not necessarily codependent. I always feel they can take it all in, and breath it all out. I wish them well with whatever path they take. I don't have a crystal ball unfortunately.....
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Jungle
Posts: 5,435
One of the most powerful factors of addiction is denial. The rewiring of the brain tells an addict......I'm not that bad, I'm unique, I can handle it.
Unfortunately, one of the most powerful indicators of codependence is denial. The brain gets rewired.......he/she is not that bad, our situation is unique, we can handle it. (Notice the distinct lack of "I" statements).
One of the most detrimental things anyone can do is feed into the denial of either.
Many of the addicts who have been through treatment 3, 5 or 8 times were in treatment within a few months or year of the beginning of their addiction. Complete and sustained recovery from addiction after one stint in rehab is statistically proven to be the exception. Feeding the denial of a (unconfirmed) codependent is as detrimental as feeding the denial of an (unconfirmed) addict and I'm not sure that is fully understood. Coming from someone sitting in the 2% category telling the other 98% that they can be there too if they just study a little harder, understand a little more, be more patient, be more perfect......is that really fair to them? Or is it feeding into the beast of denial?
EnglishGarden....thank you for the reality check. Recovering from addiction isn't as easy as ABC......and, IMHO, codependence is addiction.
gentle hugs
ke
Unfortunately, one of the most powerful indicators of codependence is denial. The brain gets rewired.......he/she is not that bad, our situation is unique, we can handle it. (Notice the distinct lack of "I" statements).
One of the most detrimental things anyone can do is feed into the denial of either.
Many of the addicts who have been through treatment 3, 5 or 8 times were in treatment within a few months or year of the beginning of their addiction. Complete and sustained recovery from addiction after one stint in rehab is statistically proven to be the exception. Feeding the denial of a (unconfirmed) codependent is as detrimental as feeding the denial of an (unconfirmed) addict and I'm not sure that is fully understood. Coming from someone sitting in the 2% category telling the other 98% that they can be there too if they just study a little harder, understand a little more, be more patient, be more perfect......is that really fair to them? Or is it feeding into the beast of denial?
EnglishGarden....thank you for the reality check. Recovering from addiction isn't as easy as ABC......and, IMHO, codependence is addiction.
gentle hugs
ke
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
EG...this is so so true. It is a true epidemic, and one that is very hard to beat. I will say this, how many times have we heard on this very board about our SR friends's children, husbands, wives, parents....those we love....never beating it. Even after that 10 times of rehab or jail or whatever, if they continue to use they will die.
Your analogy that it is a snake is so correct. It just takes over your entire being. I am not nor have I been a user, but I am a leader at CR and have listened to countless victims...and yes..these people are victims of drugs....cry about how awful it is and how they just cannot beat it. They cry in anguish because even as they sit there their body is crying out for this drug. So so awful.
I have a 14 year old. She goes to CR with us at times (we have kids programs). We always eat dinner before so it is a big social time, you meet alot of different people. She would ask me later on why this one or that one was there. Most times I just said they have some issues they are working on. However, (and these people don't mind, I always ask first), there have been some H users that I have told her about. I even let her sit in on one powerful testimony. I did so because I want her to see what their life is like. I want her to see what they have gone through, some at such a young age. I want her to see so she never tries it herself, because it seems like once you do life declines very very quickly.
I offer prayers to all who are dealing with an addict in their life, especially those parents who have children dealing with drug addiction. It breaks my heart.
Your analogy that it is a snake is so correct. It just takes over your entire being. I am not nor have I been a user, but I am a leader at CR and have listened to countless victims...and yes..these people are victims of drugs....cry about how awful it is and how they just cannot beat it. They cry in anguish because even as they sit there their body is crying out for this drug. So so awful.
I have a 14 year old. She goes to CR with us at times (we have kids programs). We always eat dinner before so it is a big social time, you meet alot of different people. She would ask me later on why this one or that one was there. Most times I just said they have some issues they are working on. However, (and these people don't mind, I always ask first), there have been some H users that I have told her about. I even let her sit in on one powerful testimony. I did so because I want her to see what their life is like. I want her to see what they have gone through, some at such a young age. I want her to see so she never tries it herself, because it seems like once you do life declines very very quickly.
I offer prayers to all who are dealing with an addict in their life, especially those parents who have children dealing with drug addiction. It breaks my heart.
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Join Date: Jul 2013
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I came here to talk to other family members, wasnt looking to be rescued or saved. It helps me when people shared their story, suggest things to me but go beyond that and it feels like people are trying to change or control me and I tune them out. I know people probably mean well but I think it may be their own issues that drive their strong desire to save people.
happy, joyous an free!
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Addiction is a snake that wraps itself into the interior organs and into the deepest recesses of the brain and of the soul of the addict.
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Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6
Hardest part for me is to separate the person my sister was (prior to heroin) to who she has become. I am 42 years old and I still so desperately want to believe every time she is clean, for days, weeks, even months. Yet she goes back and I find myself scrutinizing every moment, every word, trying to decipher what was truth and what was lies. I have never even smoked pot and only drink occasionally. It is impossible for me to understand the powerful grip, bewildering for me that anyone would choose the great loss that comes with being an addict. And yet here we all are. Thank you for all your words, thoughts and most importantly truths. It helps us all.
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Originally Posted by EnglishGarden 
If an addict is not 100% clean and sober of all mind-altering substances and is not daily working a program of recovery and has not put recovery ahead of ambition, parenting, love-making, hobbies, trips, and that bike ride every morning, then that addict has a shape-shifting snake in charge of his mind and soul, and you are going to suffer.
No matter how beautiful his smile or how nice he is to children and dogs.
No matter how beautiful his smile or how nice he is to children and dogs.
●▬๑۩۩๑▬●
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,405
Originally Posted by Twofish
How did that happen...TF
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Join Date: Sep 2013
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Thank you for this post! We refused to see the truth for the following reasons ... you don't know him like we do, he's going to love his son, his son is going to change everything, our situation is different than anyone else's, the baby needs his dad. After joining SR it was clear that our situation wasn't so unique and his ways were the ways of an addict.
happy, joyous an free!
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: northeast
Posts: 693
Yet she goes back and I find myself scrutinizing every moment, every word, trying to decipher what was truth and what was lies.
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,384
Thanks for sharing EG. It can be easy to delude ourselves into thinking that this time the addict will get clean. My abf is on his 3rd recovery from pain pills. The death of Philip Seymour Hoffman is a reminder that no matter how "functioning" somebody is, relapse is always a possibility. It can happen next week, or 20 years from now.
It scares me because my stepdaughter is still out there using heroin. She has had near OD's before, and we never know when the fatal one will occur. I read in the article that somebody recently posted on addiction, that OD's often occur in people in their 30's. They have often had many near misses before that.
Yet, they keep using. The grip on them is so strong, that they still use even with the risk of death and the experience of near-death. It amazes me how powerful it is.
It scares me because my stepdaughter is still out there using heroin. She has had near OD's before, and we never know when the fatal one will occur. I read in the article that somebody recently posted on addiction, that OD's often occur in people in their 30's. They have often had many near misses before that.
Yet, they keep using. The grip on them is so strong, that they still use even with the risk of death and the experience of near-death. It amazes me how powerful it is.
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
My son has been missing, lost in his addiction for 10 years, prior to that he had another 10 years of the revolving door of addiction/recovery. He is my foster son, all his birth family are dead now, from addiction except one sister and I'm not sure how she is.
When I took him to his first rehab, long ago, I thought he'd do 30 days and get clean forever and we could all live happily ever after. I wish I knew then what I know now, I almost died myself trying to save him and spent thousands of dollars trying to buy his recovery. I didn't know that love could not save our addicted children.
For a long time here, I hated to share that because I thought I would steal the hope from somebody's heart and bring darkness to the forum. There is always hope for any addict, no matter how deep he has dug his hole. I have seen the miracles with my own eyes and it is that which keeps my candle of hope burning in my heart, because I know it can happen to my son too. What I don't know is if it will or when. I have left all that between my son and God.
I have learned that sharing how I survived is more important today, it brings light and hope to those who feel defeated and beaten.
The truth is hard, the reality heart breaking. But that's why we are here, to walk together and share together and survive that insidious disease called addiction and the impact it has on families and loved ones.
Thank you EnglishGarden for having the courage to tell it like it is. The truth will set us free.
Hugs
When I took him to his first rehab, long ago, I thought he'd do 30 days and get clean forever and we could all live happily ever after. I wish I knew then what I know now, I almost died myself trying to save him and spent thousands of dollars trying to buy his recovery. I didn't know that love could not save our addicted children.
For a long time here, I hated to share that because I thought I would steal the hope from somebody's heart and bring darkness to the forum. There is always hope for any addict, no matter how deep he has dug his hole. I have seen the miracles with my own eyes and it is that which keeps my candle of hope burning in my heart, because I know it can happen to my son too. What I don't know is if it will or when. I have left all that between my son and God.
I have learned that sharing how I survived is more important today, it brings light and hope to those who feel defeated and beaten.
The truth is hard, the reality heart breaking. But that's why we are here, to walk together and share together and survive that insidious disease called addiction and the impact it has on families and loved ones.
Thank you EnglishGarden for having the courage to tell it like it is. The truth will set us free.
Hugs
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