He said he doesn't need me to say anything
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He said he doesn't need me to say anything
Ok..I asked AH how he is doing. He responded he is good and hasn't had anything to drink since the new year. Whether thats true or not, I don't know, but guess it doesn't matter at this moment. He said everyday he wants to drink but doesn't. I told him good job..ugh, I feel like a parent saying that to my husband. Anyway, I then asked him if he had looked into help for himself and he said he didn't think he needed it. Now..that WAS NOT the deal. The deal was that he had to abstain, not drive the kids nor drive drunk, period, and get his lisence, PLUS get help. So, I said he needed to get help per our conversation on the 31st. He replied quite agitatedly he didn't need me saying anything or bringing it up...that he is so busy trying to fix all of the stressful problems (problems created because of his drinking)..Well, howdy doody! Im SOOO glad he can pick what he will actually do from our agreement! What the crud! So all was fine until I asked about him getting help. If we continued talking about how good he is doing all would have been fine. I realize he doesnt need me to say anything and I don't want to say anything; it was all layed out perfectly clear on the 31st, so I thought. But for my own self preservation and sanity I need him getting help. All the years he said he would and hasn't has not worked yet!! We will not last if he doesn't; we are already on such shaky ground.
Not sure what to do with this.
Not sure what to do with this.
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What do you want to do with that piece of information? What do you show him by not following through on your end of said agreement?
Keep focusing on yourself - start your classes, find support, talk to a lawyer, make plans to meet your & your children's needs. Let AH figure things out for himself. The more you work on yourself, the stronger you will be so you can minimize the effect his actions have on you.
After I kicked RAH out, he kept "trying" to quit on his own, but he couldn't make it past two weeks at a time. Eventually, something clicked and he went to AA which got him over that hump. He knew what the problem was, he knew what the resources were, but he had to get himself to that point of actually doing something about it. Nothing we can do will get them there.
More will be revealed. Hugs, Katchie, I really feel for you and what you are going through.
Keep focusing on yourself - start your classes, find support, talk to a lawyer, make plans to meet your & your children's needs. Let AH figure things out for himself. The more you work on yourself, the stronger you will be so you can minimize the effect his actions have on you.
After I kicked RAH out, he kept "trying" to quit on his own, but he couldn't make it past two weeks at a time. Eventually, something clicked and he went to AA which got him over that hump. He knew what the problem was, he knew what the resources were, but he had to get himself to that point of actually doing something about it. Nothing we can do will get them there.
More will be revealed. Hugs, Katchie, I really feel for you and what you are going through.
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You did fine.
Yes you were right to bring up the getting help.
He agreed to it.
A marriage is about agreements.
He wants to separate his drinking which he sees as personal business.
It's not though, is it. It's your business too.
Yes you were right to bring up the getting help.
He agreed to it.
A marriage is about agreements.
He wants to separate his drinking which he sees as personal business.
It's not though, is it. It's your business too.
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Originally Posted by CarryOn 
What do you want to do with that piece of information? What do you show him by not following through on your end of said agreement?
Keep focusing on yourself - start your classes, find support, talk to a lawyer, make plans to meet your & your children's needs. Let AH figure things out for himself. The more you work on yourself, the stronger you will be so you can minimize the effect his actions have on you.
After I kicked RAH out, he kept "trying" to quit on his own, but he couldn't make it past two weeks at a time. Eventually, something clicked and he went to AA which got him over that hump. He knew what the problem was, he knew what the resources were, but he had to get himself to that point of actually doing something about it. Nothing we can do will get them there.
More will be revealed. Hugs, Katchie, I really feel for you and what you are going through.
Keep focusing on yourself - start your classes, find support, talk to a lawyer, make plans to meet your & your children's needs. Let AH figure things out for himself. The more you work on yourself, the stronger you will be so you can minimize the effect his actions have on you.
After I kicked RAH out, he kept "trying" to quit on his own, but he couldn't make it past two weeks at a time. Eventually, something clicked and he went to AA which got him over that hump. He knew what the problem was, he knew what the resources were, but he had to get himself to that point of actually doing something about it. Nothing we can do will get them there.
More will be revealed. Hugs, Katchie, I really feel for you and what you are going through.
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Originally Posted by Katchie
I don't feel ready.
RAH had tried to quit several times. In discussing with my counselor due to the anxiety I was having because of our living situation, she told me that I may have to kick him out before anything would change...and maybe that wouldn't do it either. About four months later, I was on the phone with him while he was traveling out of state and he was completely wasted. I could tell he thought he was hiding it well but he wasn't. He'd been telling me for the last 2.5 months that he was sober. That was it for me - I had worked so hard in that time to overcome my anxiety that I was not going back to that place which meant he couldn't come home if he was in active addiction. As others have said, the decision was made calmly and firmly. Granted, I was an emotional basket case for the next few weeks but the decision came easy.
I've had to do a lot of "hard" things that I never thought I could do..and I am actively engaged in a number of things I don't want to do...alanon, counseling, etc., but I'm doing them because I need to. Our marriage has to be rebuilt if it is to survive - and that requires change on both our parts. While his drinking was a big problem, there were other problems that both of us contributed to so we both have changes to make. Each person here is in a different place...but there are underlying themes for us all. We all need recovery...every single one of us. It is up to each of us (including our A's) what that looks like, how we go about it and what resources we use.
You're doing just fine...just keep taking care of yourself and doing the next right thing - whatever that may be for you.
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I don't think it's a rush either, although I warn you; do not give ultimatiums you do not plan to keep. They are like naughty children, so if they know you are not going to stick to your word, they will take advantage of it.
I think it is good you brought it up. Wouldn't we all love it if no one called us on on committments we did not keep even though we said we would. At my job that would get me fired...just saying.
I am not trying to pressure you, more just caution you. I have been there, done that. I mean it with my AH right now. One drink, foot on the ass and out. He knows it too, it scares the beejesus out of him as it well should. Most likely will still boot him out but for now that is the deal. It's my deal and I have a right to it. However, I waited to give that ultimatium this time until I knew I was read to put my money where my mouth is. I do see a change in him but am not holding my breath. This time it's all for me and my kids.
Good luck!
I think it is good you brought it up. Wouldn't we all love it if no one called us on on committments we did not keep even though we said we would. At my job that would get me fired...just saying.
I am not trying to pressure you, more just caution you. I have been there, done that. I mean it with my AH right now. One drink, foot on the ass and out. He knows it too, it scares the beejesus out of him as it well should. Most likely will still boot him out but for now that is the deal. It's my deal and I have a right to it. However, I waited to give that ultimatium this time until I knew I was read to put my money where my mouth is. I do see a change in him but am not holding my breath. This time it's all for me and my kids.
Good luck!
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Originally Posted by hopeful4
I don't think it's a rush either, although I warn you; do not give ultimatiums you do not plan to keep. They are like naughty children, so if they know you are not going to stick to your word, they will take advantage of it.
I think it is good you brought it up. Wouldn't we all love it if no one called us on on committments we did not keep even though we said we would. At my job that would get me fired...just saying.
I am not trying to pressure you, more just caution you. I have been there, done that. I mean it with my AH right now. One drink, foot on the ass and out. He knows it too, it scares the beejesus out of him as it well should. Most likely will still boot him out but for now that is the deal. It's my deal and I have a right to it. However, I waited to give that ultimatium this time until I knew I was read to put my money where my mouth is. I do see a change in him but am not holding my breath. This time it's all for me and my kids.
Good luck!
I think it is good you brought it up. Wouldn't we all love it if no one called us on on committments we did not keep even though we said we would. At my job that would get me fired...just saying.
I am not trying to pressure you, more just caution you. I have been there, done that. I mean it with my AH right now. One drink, foot on the ass and out. He knows it too, it scares the beejesus out of him as it well should. Most likely will still boot him out but for now that is the deal. It's my deal and I have a right to it. However, I waited to give that ultimatium this time until I knew I was read to put my money where my mouth is. I do see a change in him but am not holding my breath. This time it's all for me and my kids.
Good luck!
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Katchie...when it comes to boundaries...it is not necessary that the other person agree with them or go along with them. It is up to us to enforce them--no matter what the circumstances or reaction from the other person.
Of the alcoholics that I have known--personally or in other ways---the last thing they want to face is getting help--because that implies total sobriety. Total, ongoing sobriety feels like death to an alcoholic. Thus, they try to white knuckle it; insist that they can do it alone. Frequently, acceptance of help only comes when the pain of drinking becomes so severe that they can't stand it any more. This may take a long time
if they ever do arrive at that point.
I believe that this article will give you some clarity on this--It is a thread posted by Cynical One---("10 ways to tell when an alcoholic or addict is full of crap"). It was of enormous help to me.
dandylion
Of the alcoholics that I have known--personally or in other ways---the last thing they want to face is getting help--because that implies total sobriety. Total, ongoing sobriety feels like death to an alcoholic. Thus, they try to white knuckle it; insist that they can do it alone. Frequently, acceptance of help only comes when the pain of drinking becomes so severe that they can't stand it any more. This may take a long time
if they ever do arrive at that point.
I believe that this article will give you some clarity on this--It is a thread posted by Cynical One---("10 ways to tell when an alcoholic or addict is full of crap"). It was of enormous help to me.
dandylion
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I didn't really feel ready to kick mine out, either. But, I really was out of options. My son needs to come home & AH wasn't following our agreement (to abstain & go to AA). I knew what I had to do but did not feel ready... so I prayed. I prayed for clarity and I prayed for timing. The "right" time presented itself and though I still didn't exactly feel ready (just felt resolved), I told him. He's leaving in a couple weeks. I still waver. Some days I am confident, know I am doing the right thing. Other days I am weak. But, I know there really was no other choice.
All that, just to say, if you believe in prayer or have a higher power/God, maybe consider praying for clarity? If you find your answer, then pray for timing? And, like others have said, I would think you could wait a little longer? Who knows, he could end up at AA yet, in a moment of weakness? Or, he could start drinking again and you'd have your answer loud and clear?
I'm sorry, Katchie
This totally sucks! Kicking our AH's out is definitely not on our to do list when we get married
All that, just to say, if you believe in prayer or have a higher power/God, maybe consider praying for clarity? If you find your answer, then pray for timing? And, like others have said, I would think you could wait a little longer? Who knows, he could end up at AA yet, in a moment of weakness? Or, he could start drinking again and you'd have your answer loud and clear?
I'm sorry, Katchie
This totally sucks! Kicking our AH's out is definitely not on our to do list when we get married Member
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No guilt trip for asking him about an agreement!
Yes he'd love to try some AA words on you and tell you to sweep your side of the street only!
In marriage though, just how does that work out when there's an agreement within the marriage to do something, and that something is about his drinking?
Separating them just means "white knuckling it" for you.
Yes he'd love to try some AA words on you and tell you to sweep your side of the street only!
In marriage though, just how does that work out when there's an agreement within the marriage to do something, and that something is about his drinking?
Separating them just means "white knuckling it" for you.
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Katchie...when it comes to boundaries...it is not necessary that the other person agree with them or go along with them. It is up to us to enforce them--no matter what the circumstances or reaction from the other person.
Of the alcoholics that I have known--personally or in other ways---the last thing they want to face is getting help--because that implies total sobriety. Total, ongoing sobriety feels like death to an alcoholic. Thus, they try to white knuckle it; insist that they can do it alone. Frequently, acceptance of help only comes when the pain of drinking becomes so severe that they can't stand it any more. This may take a long time
if they ever do arrive at that point.
I believe that this article will give you some clarity on this--It is a thread posted by Cynical One---("10 ways to tell when an alcoholic or addict is full of crap"). It was of enormous help to me.
dandylion
Of the alcoholics that I have known--personally or in other ways---the last thing they want to face is getting help--because that implies total sobriety. Total, ongoing sobriety feels like death to an alcoholic. Thus, they try to white knuckle it; insist that they can do it alone. Frequently, acceptance of help only comes when the pain of drinking becomes so severe that they can't stand it any more. This may take a long time
if they ever do arrive at that point.
I believe that this article will give you some clarity on this--It is a thread posted by Cynical One---("10 ways to tell when an alcoholic or addict is full of crap"). It was of enormous help to me.
dandylion
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Originally Posted by hopeful4
Katchie, I understand, I truly do. I agree, sometimes we just don't know, and that is OK too. This is not a race, it is your life.
Hugs my friend.
Hugs my friend.
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O Katchie....I totally agree. It is just awful to see. However, that you can recognize none of those things helped you is progress. You are putting one foot in front of the other, no one says you have to run!
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Katchie.....I truly get what you m ean when you talk about that nauseated feeling. I have had it before. I promise you--it will pass. This happens when you finally pull back the curtains and just see the reality--the plain truth in daylight. But, I can also promise you this---you can not live an authentic life while hiding from reality...the truth. The truth will never trick you and destroy you like living in fantasy or wishful thinking. True--it may seem like the harder way--at first---hence the "fears" and that nauseated feeling.
It is normal for us humans to fear facing the future--the unknown...we are genarally m ore comfortable with our known miseries than unknown good fortunes that lie in the future.....LOL.
We are stronger than we ever think we are. We only learn how brave we can be when there is no other option. When there is no other option---brave just shows up!!! It is like magic.
dandylion
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Katchie.....I truly get what you m ean when you talk about that nauseated feeling. I have had it before. I promise you--it will pass. This happens when you finally pull back the curtains and just see the reality--the plain truth in daylight. But, I can also promise you this---you can not live an authentic life while hiding from reality...the truth. The truth will never trick you and destroy you like living in fantasy or wishful thinking. True--it may seem like the harder way--at first---hence the "fears" and that nauseated feeling.
It is normal for us humans to fear facing the future--the unknown...we are genarally m ore comfortable with our known miseries than unknown good fortunes that lie in the future.....LOL.
We are stronger than we ever think we are. We only learn how brave we can be when there is no other option. When there is no other option---brave just shows up!!! It is like magic.
dandylion
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I understand Katchie---I think we all do various things hoping that it will be the very thing that will kick-start them into recovery.
We usually underestimate the fact that the alcoholic is more afraid of sobriety than losing something they already have. That and coupled with the fact that they tend not to believe us when we place a boundary.
They tend to believe what we do (have done) over what we say we are going to do.
dandylion
We usually underestimate the fact that the alcoholic is more afraid of sobriety than losing something they already have. That and coupled with the fact that they tend not to believe us when we place a boundary.
They tend to believe what we do (have done) over what we say we are going to do.
dandylion
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Originally Posted by dandylion
last thing they want to face is getting help--because that implies total sobriety. Total, ongoing sobriety feels like death to an alcoholic. Thus, they try to white knuckle it; insist that they can do it alone. Frequently, acceptance of help only comes when the pain of drinking becomes so severe that they can't stand it any more. dandylion
And incidentally, I have found similar to be true for me. I kept "white knuckling it" - putting up with the drinking as long as I did because the thought of being without him was unimaginable. Then, I guess when the writing was on the wall, one day I calmly heard words coming out of my mouth that were really hard for me to hear myself say, and I remember being in awe a little that I was actually saying them. Figured that somehow I must have just "known" that I WAS ready, even though I didn't always "feel" ready.
White knuckling no drinking will work for awhile. A year and a half for my hubby. When it stopped working and he was clear on my boundaries and knew I meant what I said, he got serious about treatment. Now he knew I was no longer enabling, knew white knuckling only worked for so long, and he also knew he truly was an alcoholic who could NOT get by on will power alone and could not moderate, because after 15-18 months of no drinking, he learned it was a short path from 1 drink 1 day, to 6 by dinnertime, etc. All that to say that while "doing it on his own" certainly seems to violate your boundary, maybe this is part of a process that will eventually get each of you to the place where you do what you KNOW you have to do, deep down inside.
All the best-
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I hear you Katchie. When rAH was drinking years and years ago in our marriage (maybe about 10 years ago?) I should have seen the signs that he was drinking excessively. He would drink so badly sometimes that he would stand up out of bed at night and urinate on the floor thinking he was at the toilet. First time I said 'where did all this water come from?' (not realizing it was urine) and he hadn't a clue. Second time I caught him up cleaning the floor and peeking over the bed to see if I had woken up. Third time I caught him before he actually did it. After a few incidents in those years he seemed to stop drinking pretty much and it wasn't an issue (or that I was aware of). Then two years ago hubby's old friend, another police officer, committed suicide at a nearby detachment with his work gun. Something in hubby changed when this happened. About a month later he was into a deep depression, was drinking again and attempted a suicide (but spit the pills out). He went through a lot of therapy - but not one person EVER recommended AA to him ... not even me I did make the ultimatum that I couldn't do this again. I said no more booze ....
Well ... that ultimatum didn't work now did it. Two years later boom - he's run off after an issue at work created distress for him - and he's drank a whole case of beer and looking for a place to park in a nearby city to swallow all of his pills he takes for depression. His sgt received some concerning texts and they tracked him with his cell and he was intercepted by that city's police before he could follow through.
Leading up to this he was drinking ... I had NO idea .... I never saw it at all. Now I look back and see a lot of things that I SHOULD have seen ... the cash withdrawals, all the gum and breath spray, the slurring of speech (that I attributed to his lack of taking care of his diabetes), the bloated belly, the red face, the angry outbursts especially at the girls - they were mean and they were harsh ... why I didn't see it, I just don't know He had been sending texts to the guys on shift and telling them not to tell me or I'd leave him. That is what he kept saying when he came back to the detachment (and his shift was working). He figured that I was done with him. Yet again ... I have not gone. Where is my ultimatum?
So now here I sit with him coming home next week from 8 weeks of rehab. Diagnosed with PTSD and alcoholism .... sounds like a new man and worries that he has ruined our marriage. When he thought I was going to just be done he had a breakdown at rehab and they had to sedate him. For about a month of rehab I just shut him out completely ... turned elsewhere for comfort emotionally, which as you know, I am not proud of ... but I wanted nothing to do with him and his problems at all. I went numb. Since having that breakdown we started to talk. I actually started to listen to him instead of rebuffing him at every turn. He is coming home - to the extra bedroom. We have a lot of work to do ... I am willing to try, but I feel very skeptical. I feel like I am not following through with my ultimatum by having him come home. So it is all very confusing. I also worry that I am so lonely right now, that I will immediately allow myself to fall back into the relationship rather quickly.
I do know if this ... if this marriage does survive this and we manage to work things out, I can't do this again. My ultimatum is no booze or it is done. I can't ever go through this all again. As much as I know he has worked hard and is very optimistic about all of his changes, I remain skeptical. I don't know how I open myself up to him and to these changes. If it happens again he can go to his parents and his mom can feel all sorry for him as she does now. I just won't do this ever again. This is of course if the marriage makes it ...
Anyways - that seems all about me ...
Katchie ... your AH needs to see that you are going to stand by your ultimatum. But like someone else said, be sure it is an ultimatum you can stand by and commit to. You deserve to be happy too. So do your children. Alanon may be a good first step for yourself
I need to take my own advice and try one of those too.
Good luck and (((hugs)))
K
I did make the ultimatum that I couldn't do this again. I said no more booze .... Well ... that ultimatum didn't work now did it. Two years later boom - he's run off after an issue at work created distress for him - and he's drank a whole case of beer and looking for a place to park in a nearby city to swallow all of his pills he takes for depression. His sgt received some concerning texts and they tracked him with his cell and he was intercepted by that city's police before he could follow through.
Leading up to this he was drinking ... I had NO idea .... I never saw it at all. Now I look back and see a lot of things that I SHOULD have seen ... the cash withdrawals, all the gum and breath spray, the slurring of speech (that I attributed to his lack of taking care of his diabetes), the bloated belly, the red face, the angry outbursts especially at the girls - they were mean and they were harsh ... why I didn't see it, I just don't know
He had been sending texts to the guys on shift and telling them not to tell me or I'd leave him. That is what he kept saying when he came back to the detachment (and his shift was working). He figured that I was done with him. Yet again ... I have not gone. Where is my ultimatum?So now here I sit with him coming home next week from 8 weeks of rehab. Diagnosed with PTSD and alcoholism .... sounds like a new man and worries that he has ruined our marriage. When he thought I was going to just be done he had a breakdown at rehab and they had to sedate him. For about a month of rehab I just shut him out completely ... turned elsewhere for comfort emotionally, which as you know, I am not proud of ... but I wanted nothing to do with him and his problems at all. I went numb. Since having that breakdown we started to talk. I actually started to listen to him instead of rebuffing him at every turn. He is coming home - to the extra bedroom. We have a lot of work to do ... I am willing to try, but I feel very skeptical. I feel like I am not following through with my ultimatum by having him come home. So it is all very confusing. I also worry that I am so lonely right now, that I will immediately allow myself to fall back into the relationship rather quickly.
I do know if this ... if this marriage does survive this and we manage to work things out, I can't do this again. My ultimatum is no booze or it is done. I can't ever go through this all again. As much as I know he has worked hard and is very optimistic about all of his changes, I remain skeptical. I don't know how I open myself up to him and to these changes. If it happens again he can go to his parents and his mom can feel all sorry for him as she does now. I just won't do this ever again. This is of course if the marriage makes it ...
Anyways - that seems all about me ...
Katchie ... your AH needs to see that you are going to stand by your ultimatum. But like someone else said, be sure it is an ultimatum you can stand by and commit to. You deserve to be happy too. So do your children. Alanon may be a good first step for yourself
I need to take my own advice and try one of those too. Good luck and (((hugs)))
K
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