Happy Beginning

Old 01-17-2014, 12:56 AM
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Happy Beginning

Just a hopefullly quick update from the land of the normal not-on-holiday anymore world.
After a tumultous holiday you may remember, my AH has been sober with Rational Recovery since December 31. I would say December 30, but I am not sure if he had a drink that day.
He for the first time on the 30th said he would not drink again (comments like that were always tempered with "just a beer" and "i will TRY") and he has not. He finally hit bottom that day and I hit mine and was 100 percent ready to walk. I dont feel like that anymore, but if there were a slip up soon, I am sure that I would have that feeling again.

I wanted him out almost as soon as he arrived home, but we went to therapy together and since he was willing to work and fight for our relationship, the therapist advised against that as we were in a crisis we should wether together if that was agreeable to me. It was.

I know we are in a honeymoon phase, so please no reminding me how wrong it can go. I know that. What I also know is that I am living with a man that I hardly recognize. I mean that in the best possible way. He has always been kind in his words, and a good man in his action, but thwarted by alcohol and his choice to pick up a drink which would start on a quick downwards spiral. He has not picked one up. He says he hardly thinks about it.

His mood has improved, he is not withdrawn, he is not ashamed in front of people to order an iced tea or a water.
I feel like a new person. I know that RR is not for everyone, but it's the program that he has chosen (after more AA meetings than I knew about) and I support his decision. I am not going to Al-Anon, but despite RR's policy, if I feel I need it, I have np problem going if I decide that is what I need.


Right now are are doing a very strong focus on each other, the "we" that we have neglected, through excercizes given in therapy, which are difficult at times, but worth while.

As we ALL know, the A is not the ONLY problem in a relationship. We add to it and take it all on and deal with it in various ways, not all good. So the therapy is not just for him, but for me and for us.

This is the happiest I have felt in years.
As the title says, this is not a happy ending, but it is SUCH a happy beginning.

I pray as always, that I can continue to learn, grow and I hope post positive updates so that others MIGHT see that there MIGHT be a happy future.

This has been a long time coming, it took hitting HARD, I dont recommend this bottom as the way to happiness, but maybe in the end, it will all be worth it for me. At this moment in time, it is. Whew. Not easy to say. Here's to a brighter future for us all..
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Old 01-17-2014, 01:38 AM
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I hope things continue to get better for you.
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:48 AM
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Hi Booo;
I was wondering how things were going.

I'm glad you are happy and I hope so much things continue to work out.

Big big hugs and thank you for the update!
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Old 01-17-2014, 07:02 AM
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Hey Booo. THAT was really interesting.

Thanks for mentioning RR -- I had never read much of its details or concepts.

I was a little surprised on No Alanon for you (or I guess *us,* if thinking in terms of Friends and Family), because I am not sure how it conflicts, but if that is part of the RR system, and it works, good for you.

I am not going to Al-Anon, but despite RR's policy, if I feel I need it, I have np problem going if I decide that is what I need.
Good for you on the independent thinking part. Both ways and all ways.

Since we have been doing the 12 step side of things, with some -- but limited -- success, it is really interesting to hear and talk with other folks about what work(s/ed) for them (talking about Real People -- not Program Promoters -- from either or any side).

I think what may be missing from all the various perspectives is that not All Addicts or All Alcoholics have the same causes (and therefore not the same cures) behind their Addictions.

Even or maybe especially in our case. Mrs. Hammer has had addiction problems since she was 10 or 11 y.o. Found that first bottle, and oh, baby, oh. But as far as I can tell, she most likely has an underlying brain hardware problem (Hyperactive Amygdala) which goes WWWAAAAYYYY beyond just an Alcohol or any of the other *mere* Addiction Issues. It is just the various mood altering Drugs, Alcohol, Behaviors tend to calm the Hyperactivity and sedate the condition -- at least for a while -- so that becomes the new Self-Treatment program.

That is more of a Hardware Medical Research Model -- and I do not see THAT in any common program. Other than to group it in a Personality Disorder type Mental Illness, and consider it generally un-treatable.

But SO GLAD your stuff is working for you all. If is *just* an addiction you all are dealing with -- sounds great and VERY HAPPY for you.

Many Happy Trails ahead to you.
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Old 01-17-2014, 07:24 AM
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Boo...I was just thinking about you and wondering how things have been going. I am so glad to hear you are both working on you and your relationship. Who cares what program it is...it's a program and it is progress....that is what counts!

I hope it continues to go well for you guys!

Hugs!
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Old 01-17-2014, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by hopeful4 View Post
Who cares what program it is...it's a program and it is progress....that is what counts!

I hope it continues to go well for you guys!
And the choir said: AMEN!
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Old 01-17-2014, 08:25 AM
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I hope things continue to improve Booo!

I don't know much about the programs; can you explain a bit about RR's against Al-Anon "policy" you were referring to?
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Old 01-17-2014, 10:44 AM
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My RAH read up a lot on RR and it really appealed to his logical side. From all that he's told me it sounds like it makes a lot of sense. I never heard anything about it being anti alanon. I'm curious about that too.

So glad to hear of your happy beginning. Things sound promising.
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Old 01-17-2014, 10:58 AM
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Just what I read . . .

=================

https://rational.org/index.php?id=1

Zero-Tolerance Ultimatum for Your
Addicted Spouse or Significant Other (ASS)
©2010, Jack Trimpey. All rights reserved.

Addiction is insatiable, and will consume all of any family’s emotional and financial resources, and still demand more. In contrast to the addict-centered, disease/treatment way of thinking that puts the addict at the center of a family support system, AVRT-based recovery, is family-centered, requring the addicted family member to guarantee permanent abstinence as a condition of the benefits of family life. Families exercise their legitmate authority to force the addicted member to choose between his addiction and Plan B, an exact plan of self-protective action the family will take if and when the addict persists with self-intoxication.

Plan B may include disownment, termination of family membership, separation, divorce, ending financial support, or other means of family protection. Accordingly, we heartily endorse the zero-tolerance ultimatum, in which a family spokesman confronts the addict with, "Today you must choose between your addiction and (Plan B)." Refusal to guarantee lifetime abstinence, including the promise of recovery group participation or addiction treatment services, should be interpreted as "Yes, I will have yummy relapses any time I really feel like it," and set in motion Plan B.

Families are the source of legitimate, moral authority at the base of public law. Thus, families have powerful means at their disposal to deal directly and effectively with addiction within the ranks. Sadly, fellowships of addiction have conspired for over eighty years to dominate their families so that they become the political center of family life, requiring support, tolerance, and patient understanding in order to avoid continuing drunkenness, abuse, criminality, financial downfall, and mayhem. The culprit is the bogus disease concept of addiction, which transforms the ugliness of addiction into alarming symptoms of a major medical disease, makes addictive self-indulgence into innocent behavior, changes sociopathic addicts into disease victims worthy of compassionate attention, understanding and care. In short, the disease concept of immorality transforms the family's perfect ass into a sacred alcoholic at the center of family life.

The result of this medically-sponsored deception is that families of addiction feel unauthorized to deal logically and effectively with their adult, addicted family members. Following mainstream cultural beliefs and values, they interpret the ugly betrayal of addiction as a medical mystery and seek outside advice and professional advice. Eagerly awaiting them is an inverted family system, Al-Anon, a fellowship based upon the beliefs and values of addicted people, that views addiction/alcoholism as a family disease. Al-Anon is a auxilliary of AA that changes the real victims of addiction, innocent family members, into “enablers” and “codependents” who are largely responsible, genetically and psychologically, for the onset and perpetuation of addiction. In AVRT-based recovery, however, enablers and codependents are considered suckers, falling for the most transparent excuse for self-intoxication, the disease concept of addiction. Fellowships of addicted people, gathered separately as addicts and families, then spawn an endless stream of clinical-sounding excuses, e.g., triggers, stress, depression, isolation, missing meetings, hunger, anger, lonliness, fatigue, "untreated addiction," etc. The over-arching threat to families is that, if an addicted person under duress "relapses," comes to harm or dies, then responsibility lies with the self-protective acts of the family. In other words, the disease concept of addiction is the foundation of emotional blackmail of individual families and the larger human family that makes up society and the nation.
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Old 01-17-2014, 11:18 AM
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wow. i just read hammer's excerpt from the rr webpage. i think i said about 50% of that stuff to my exA because i was giving ultimatums (notice the "s"). unfortunately for my situation none of it worked.

it does make logical sense though if you give someone an ultimatum and they don't adhere to it, then you leave them to their devices and take care of yourself. but the family has to be prepared to carry out ultimatum rules without exception.
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Old 01-17-2014, 11:26 AM
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Hey boo
Lovely to read your post. When that happens it's the most wonderful and exciting feeling in the world. Seems all is finally going to be sorted out. Think sticking to your programmes even in the good times is so important. You can see any signs of weakness and be aware enough to deal with it.

I had a few experiences like you and unfortunately things didn't work out prob due to no programme work at the time and prob not enough knolage on recovery on my part. It's pretty crushing when the ah relapses. Anyway it's too late for us now too much has happened.

This is just to share my experience on the subject and not to dishearten you but how important it is to keep working and be aware. The very best to you both and I hope it works for you both
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Old 01-17-2014, 11:29 AM
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Sure.

And a lot of the "cure" stuff IS NOT Universal.

I Think PohsFriend said -- One Size Fits One -- or something like that.

What I learned as Mrs. Hammer's Master of Science for Social Work study buddy -- in Social Work Therapy stuff -- any particular cure that hits 33% is Very Successful. So you need a menu of various "cures" that fit the wide variability that we humans are.

One thing I have found is that folks' who claim THE ONLY WAY or in converse THAT OTHER WAY TOTALLY SUCKS . . . . usually are not too well informed about that which they speak.

Even if AA hit 33% (I think the typical numbers are a little less than that, dunno), and AVRT/RR hit 33% (dunno what their claims are), you would still need a whole other method/approach to deal with remaining 34%.

The entire I AM RIGHT -- THEREFORE EVERYONE ELSE IS WRONG routine is what tends alienate so many from religion to start with.
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Old 01-17-2014, 12:21 PM
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Whoa - it definitely reads like the Perfect Ultimatum. I could not/would not have been ready to issue such a declaration in early recovery & been able to stick to it. I couldn't have even clearly identified what the "fix" was, necessarily.

What really popped out at me is

Families are the source of legitimate, moral authority at the base of public law. Thus, families have powerful means at their disposal to deal directly and effectively with addiction within the ranks.
Well, suuuuure. But without any REAL authority to enforce anything except their own ultimatums. For my qualifier, it sounds as though a program like this would pit us against each other frequently & double my duties as Family Warden. Maybe because my RAH has issues with authority so I try to avoid ever being in that position. It's like throwing the first figurative punch - as soon as he feels he is being "managed" he's going to (over) react like a tool.

This is getting better for us on all sides due to recovery tools we are both learning through our respective resources.... AA, SR, etc. I wonder what kind of tools RR offers in this way? Maybe I'll have to do some reading up this weekend just out of curiosity.

Definitely learned something new today, sorry to de-rail your thread, Booo!
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Old 01-17-2014, 12:26 PM
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This ultimatium thing for me, actually seeemed to make the most sense. I was not ready for that a few years or even a few months ago. But for me, at this time, it DID make sense, and maybe because he was at last ready (who knows what is REALLY happening inside our heads) I dont understand the RR bias against AA, the founder cant go 5 sentances without slamming AA, so in a way, Hammer HE himself seems as bad as the "we are the only way" people.

But by the time i threw my hands in the air, AH was already DEDICATED to stopping drinking.(it was about a 5 minute revelation--very fast) Very swift and very easy for me to hop on board. There is more on RR on the secular boards here on SR and since AH is a secular guy, and HIGHLY logical and rational (unlike myself) first the name of the program drew him in, and so did the thought behind it. After all this time I was not about to second guess him or direct him another way. I am just relieved that the day that I am not worried about is drinking is ACTUALLY here. Whew.
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Old 01-17-2014, 12:42 PM
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http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-part-5-a.html

There is one of the threads. I also notice there is a new "secular" friends and family forum.

The one thing about this, your A HAS TO BE READY TO QUIT or they will be out the door in minutes. YOU need to be able to make and keep that promise/contract. Other than that, at this point, there's not much to do, except get on with your own life. I can see how this is IMPOSSIBLE for many, especially if you have kids, financial needs from the A, etc.

I will just say, when it clicks--it clicks. its LOUD click which is immersed in the idea that the A MADE THE CHOICE, the A PICKED UP THE DRINK. and the A must not do that again--not one day at a time, but FOREVER. Radical? I guess not, logically, but it SOUNDS radical to us emotional Codies. (whoops. RR says not to use that term, but I am sure they will get over it
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Old 01-17-2014, 12:56 PM
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I will say again...as long as he is committed to recovery and to a program who cares which one it is. You are working on you, he is working on him.

I would agree that for me I did not agree with every single thing in the definitions. I don't have the power to fix my AH, if I did I would have done it a long time ago. And for one who is getting ready to give such ultimatiums, I hope they also address the financial and family concerns it gives to give an ultimatium to someone like that.

I don't like the idea of putting down another program. I go to CR. That is the one for me. I would never knock another program. For me, I needed a program that would let me work on myself and not have total focus on the alcoholic in my life. That is what it gave me.

I will reach out here and say I beleive recovery is mostly in your mind. If you set your mind to it, you can recover. These programs just give you the tools to help you do it. I believe alot the same about church. I don't think God cares which church I go to. He can read my heart. Going to church is a tool to keep me with like minded people to keep my faith journey on the right path. It is just easier to walk that path with people who have the same general way of thinking and faith system as I do.

Boo..you are doing fabulous! Have a wonderful weekend!
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Old 01-17-2014, 02:00 PM
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Hopeful, you actually set the terms in your "contract" you make with your partner. Anything from "you get out" to "you get and and give up the house" Im not kidding.
Of course, me, I am not so rational. :o) Making a contract is pretty emotional for me. Of course it's one I hope to never need to enforce.
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Old 01-17-2014, 02:04 PM
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Yes, I guess that is it. The contract I think is a good thing. Our heart is always what gets in the way. It sounds like tough love type of thing which has proven to work. I guess for me it would be preparing myself to "walk the talk" so to speak. That is always the hard part, no matter what program you are working! I am doing that just now, and it is hard and I have been working the program for 4 years. I have changed so much though, so no matter the outcome of my marriage, I like who I am right now. I make mistakes and do things wrong, but at the end of the day I try my best and that is all I can do.
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Old 01-17-2014, 02:49 PM
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Hopeful, i like who you are too.
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Old 01-17-2014, 06:18 PM
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I think that it's possible to take a little bit from different programs and make one that works for you, take what you like and leave the rest. I see lot of that in my RAH. He doesn't go to AA, doesn't like or agree with a lot of it, but I see him putting into practice some of the concepts.

The same goes for me, I haven't dived into Al Anon head first(I do attend meetings) because it just doesn't all work for me, but I do get a lot out of it.

We are both doing much much better then we were a year ago, both as individuals and as a couple.
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