Just had a codie meltdown and I know better :(
Behold the power of NO
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
Just had a codie meltdown and I know better :(
I have been struggling lately. My best friend is an active alcoholic and since Thanksgiving he has had street people crashing at his house and drinking with him and what not so I have been staying away.
Anyway, today he told me that his computer died and asked me if I could help him and that we would have diner. Today was also a good day for him because he just got approved for disability.
I came over with an old laptop and helped him set it up and gave him directions to get google voice since his phone service is getting disconnected tomorrow (for non payment of course!)
He still had one person left from the little party of the previous months who is crashing in his living room.
Well, he goes to take a nap and that woman starts smoking freaking crack right in front of me!!! and this is when I flipped out, forgot about all my Al Anon and went crazy.
I woke him up, we started arguing and he swears he did not know she smoked. I took back my puter and went home then instead of doing a step three I engaged some more with him over the phone and said that unless he kicked the crackhead out, I would call his social worker tomorrow and rat him out so she could help him.
He could lose his section 8 over that crap btw...
Anyway he swore up and down that he does not smoke crack and that he did not know but I just talked to his girlfriend who told me that the person was still there and the bottom line is that his place has turned into a crack den! How can he not know?
So I know what I should do and what to do but I am a mess, shaking and crying. I am trying to pull myself back together and let it go.
Calling his social worker is interfering and like we say: we must allow people the dignity to make their own mistake.
Him and I go way back and we have helped out each other so many time but while I am tempted to manipulate him and control him into what is good for him I am making myself sick.
The friendship is over, he chose some crack vagrant over me and it hurts and refraining from interfering "for his own good" hurts just as much.
Sorry for dumping but I had to let it out.
I need to recenter myself and get some serenity back. Any suggestion?
Anyway, today he told me that his computer died and asked me if I could help him and that we would have diner. Today was also a good day for him because he just got approved for disability.
I came over with an old laptop and helped him set it up and gave him directions to get google voice since his phone service is getting disconnected tomorrow (for non payment of course!)
He still had one person left from the little party of the previous months who is crashing in his living room.
Well, he goes to take a nap and that woman starts smoking freaking crack right in front of me!!! and this is when I flipped out, forgot about all my Al Anon and went crazy.
I woke him up, we started arguing and he swears he did not know she smoked. I took back my puter and went home then instead of doing a step three I engaged some more with him over the phone and said that unless he kicked the crackhead out, I would call his social worker tomorrow and rat him out so she could help him.
He could lose his section 8 over that crap btw...
Anyway he swore up and down that he does not smoke crack and that he did not know but I just talked to his girlfriend who told me that the person was still there and the bottom line is that his place has turned into a crack den! How can he not know?
So I know what I should do and what to do but I am a mess, shaking and crying. I am trying to pull myself back together and let it go.
Calling his social worker is interfering and like we say: we must allow people the dignity to make their own mistake.
Him and I go way back and we have helped out each other so many time but while I am tempted to manipulate him and control him into what is good for him I am making myself sick.
The friendship is over, he chose some crack vagrant over me and it hurts and refraining from interfering "for his own good" hurts just as much.
Sorry for dumping but I had to let it out.
I need to recenter myself and get some serenity back. Any suggestion?
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The planet Earth, or at least that's what I've been told.
Posts: 130
I think that what you are experiencing is perfectly normal. You are human. You saw your best friend living in an awful environment and you reacted out of panic and worry - why should you feel bad about that?
I cannot tell you what to do in that situation. I know that one time I went with a friend to Las Vegas and we were planning on staying with her boyfriend. On our way there he kept calling us nervously and asked if we could find somewhere else to stay, so right away we knew something was up. When we get there, there's about 3 people hanging out all around the apartment high on crack. It was one of the weirdest situations I've ever been in, and I had no idea how to react.
You care about this person, you're upset that he's in such a dangerous situation, and you want to help him. I for one think that's perfectly normal - rational even. But before you can help him, you need to get help for yourself and you need to educate yourself. I know that a lot of people advocate group therapy, and I know it's a big help, but personally I've found from my own experience that nothing can replace a good counselor. It's not always expensive either. There are some places you can go where they offer counseling for free.
As far as books go, Under the Influence is the best book out there for understanding your friend's disease.
C
I cannot tell you what to do in that situation. I know that one time I went with a friend to Las Vegas and we were planning on staying with her boyfriend. On our way there he kept calling us nervously and asked if we could find somewhere else to stay, so right away we knew something was up. When we get there, there's about 3 people hanging out all around the apartment high on crack. It was one of the weirdest situations I've ever been in, and I had no idea how to react.
You care about this person, you're upset that he's in such a dangerous situation, and you want to help him. I for one think that's perfectly normal - rational even. But before you can help him, you need to get help for yourself and you need to educate yourself. I know that a lot of people advocate group therapy, and I know it's a big help, but personally I've found from my own experience that nothing can replace a good counselor. It's not always expensive either. There are some places you can go where they offer counseling for free.
As far as books go, Under the Influence is the best book out there for understanding your friend's disease.
C
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
Hi Carlotta, I think your reaction was normal, and it might have helped him by giving him some perspective on having crackheads in his place.
That said, I don't see where you can go from here except to cut off contact with him. Nothing you say will make him live differently, and you certainly don't want to remain involved in his life while he's in this situation.
I don't think calling his social worker is your responsibility. Leave it to the fates; if he is dabbling in crack it will soon become obvious.
That said, I don't see where you can go from here except to cut off contact with him. Nothing you say will make him live differently, and you certainly don't want to remain involved in his life while he's in this situation.
I don't think calling his social worker is your responsibility. Leave it to the fates; if he is dabbling in crack it will soon become obvious.
Behold the power of NO
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
I am a recovering alcoholic myself and I have been in Al Anon since 2001 and I feel right now like a complete loser because I just went right back to square one, flipping out and not being able to detach.
I know better than to be half hysterical and in tears over someone else's addiction.
Ps: I am not going to call his social worker, that was my codie crazy thinking....I do not have to act out on it >trying to breathe deeply< and yes I am going no contact. No other choice
I know better than to be half hysterical and in tears over someone else's addiction.
Ps: I am not going to call his social worker, that was my codie crazy thinking....I do not have to act out on it >trying to breathe deeply< and yes I am going no contact. No other choice
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
It sounds like a pretty reasonable reaction to the situation if you ask me, but then, I'm pretty black & white about stuff like this. You reined yourself in before going too far (like calling & reporting him). You're entitled to be angry when it's still so fresh, cut yourself some slack. 
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 453
Hugs!!! Nothing wrong with dumping here. I think if I were put in that situation it would have felt like my sense of safety/security were being violated and I would have had just as intense a reaction.
You may know better than to react this way to an A, but he is also a close friend that you care very much about. It is devastating when you discover something like this about someone you love. Deep breaths...you're doing just fine.
You may know better than to react this way to an A, but he is also a close friend that you care very much about. It is devastating when you discover something like this about someone you love. Deep breaths...you're doing just fine.
Behold the power of NO
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
Thanks for all the hugs and the feedback. I am feeling physically exhausted and I cannot remember the last time I cried so hard. I think I will go to bed early tonight and tomorrow is a new day.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
Ugh Carlotta! Don't beat yourself up too bad.
"The friendship is over, he chose some crack vagrant over me and it hurts and refraining from interfering "for his own good" hurts just as much."
I think the hardest hardest hardest thing for me has always been when I slide into believing it is a choice between something unhealthy (booze, crack vagrant,whatever) and ME. Because it triggers ALL my childhood feelings of abandonment and not being good enough.
When I remember the truly daunting foe that alcoholism is, then I am reminded that I don't factor into those choices at all - the alcoholic is just choosing their DOC over everything which is what they will do till they find recovery. It could be me, a good job, an apartment, the truth, or a lampost! If it will get in the way of the addiction it has no place in the addict's decision making.
You KNOW he knows that ppl are smoking crack in his house! And so you knew he was lying right to you. And you know he knows that he is jeopardizing his housing (if not his health etc!). And all that is crazy-making - so you went a little crazy.
Dust off. Apologize for your outburst if it will help you re-set your compass. Sounds like you learned A LOT and have some new factors to consider in how you want to handle this friendship.
Peace and (((hugs)))
B.
"The friendship is over, he chose some crack vagrant over me and it hurts and refraining from interfering "for his own good" hurts just as much."
I think the hardest hardest hardest thing for me has always been when I slide into believing it is a choice between something unhealthy (booze, crack vagrant,whatever) and ME. Because it triggers ALL my childhood feelings of abandonment and not being good enough.
When I remember the truly daunting foe that alcoholism is, then I am reminded that I don't factor into those choices at all - the alcoholic is just choosing their DOC over everything which is what they will do till they find recovery. It could be me, a good job, an apartment, the truth, or a lampost! If it will get in the way of the addiction it has no place in the addict's decision making.
You KNOW he knows that ppl are smoking crack in his house! And so you knew he was lying right to you. And you know he knows that he is jeopardizing his housing (if not his health etc!). And all that is crazy-making - so you went a little crazy.
Dust off. Apologize for your outburst if it will help you re-set your compass. Sounds like you learned A LOT and have some new factors to consider in how you want to handle this friendship.
Peace and (((hugs)))
B.
Behold the power of NO
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
I think the hardest hardest hardest thing for me has always been when I slide into believing it is a choice between something unhealthy (booze, crack vagrant,whatever) and ME. Because it triggers ALL my childhood feelings of abandonment and not being good enough.
I do owe him a 10 step amend for yelling at him and basically threatening him but I am not sure I am up to doing it promptly
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Carlotta my friend im sorry you have to have this happen, but im gonna say a few things about what ya said:
"... he chose some crack vagrant over me and it hurts and refraining from interfering "for his own good" hurts just as much."
no, he didn't chose. he is an addict and very well could have lost the power of choice.
( a wee bit selfish,too maybe??)
"...I feel right now like a complete loser because I just went right back to square one, flipping out and not being able to detach."
no, you are not a loser! you are simply a human, one who actually cares about the well being of others today!!( maybe a lil bit of tryin to play God in there,too?)
"I know better than to be half hysterical and in tears over someone else's addiction."
im sure the motive is because you care.
"Any suggestion? "
start at step 1
powerless and some unmanageability
see the insanity?
turn it over
whys it bother you?
tell someone else. let god listen
wanna the junk gone?
humbly ask
hurt anyone?
make amends
accept your human
talk to god, then shut up and listen
help someone else and repeat 1-11.
"... he chose some crack vagrant over me and it hurts and refraining from interfering "for his own good" hurts just as much."
no, he didn't chose. he is an addict and very well could have lost the power of choice.
( a wee bit selfish,too maybe??)
"...I feel right now like a complete loser because I just went right back to square one, flipping out and not being able to detach."
no, you are not a loser! you are simply a human, one who actually cares about the well being of others today!!( maybe a lil bit of tryin to play God in there,too?)
"I know better than to be half hysterical and in tears over someone else's addiction."
im sure the motive is because you care.
"Any suggestion? "
start at step 1
powerless and some unmanageability
see the insanity?
turn it over
whys it bother you?
tell someone else. let god listen
wanna the junk gone?
humbly ask
hurt anyone?
make amends
accept your human
talk to god, then shut up and listen
help someone else and repeat 1-11.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
HITTING BOTTOM
Why all this insistence that every A.A. must hit bottom first? The answer is that few people will sincerely try to practice the A.A. program unless they have hit bottom. For practicing A.A.'s remaining eleven Steps means the adoption of attitudes and actions that almost no alcoholic who is still drinking can dream of taking.
TWELVE STEPS AND TWELVE TRADITIONS, p. 24
Hitting bottom opened my mind and I became willing to try something different. What I tried was A.A. My new life in the Fellowship was a little like learning how to ride a bike for the first time: A.A. became my training wheels and my supporting hand. It's not that I wanted the help so much at the time; I simply did not want to hurt like that again. My desire to avoid hitting bottom again was more powerful than my desire to drink. In the beginning that was what kept me sober. But after a while I found myself working the Steps to the best of my ability. I soon realized that my attitudes and actions were changing --if ever so slightly. One Day at a Time, I became comfortable with myself, and others, and my hurting started to heal. Thank God for the training wheels and supporting hand that I choose to call Alcoholics Anonymous.
Why all this insistence that every A.A. must hit bottom first? The answer is that few people will sincerely try to practice the A.A. program unless they have hit bottom. For practicing A.A.'s remaining eleven Steps means the adoption of attitudes and actions that almost no alcoholic who is still drinking can dream of taking.
TWELVE STEPS AND TWELVE TRADITIONS, p. 24
Hitting bottom opened my mind and I became willing to try something different. What I tried was A.A. My new life in the Fellowship was a little like learning how to ride a bike for the first time: A.A. became my training wheels and my supporting hand. It's not that I wanted the help so much at the time; I simply did not want to hurt like that again. My desire to avoid hitting bottom again was more powerful than my desire to drink. In the beginning that was what kept me sober. But after a while I found myself working the Steps to the best of my ability. I soon realized that my attitudes and actions were changing --if ever so slightly. One Day at a Time, I became comfortable with myself, and others, and my hurting started to heal. Thank God for the training wheels and supporting hand that I choose to call Alcoholics Anonymous.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Your friend may indeed not be smoking.
But folks sometimes have a hard time understanding the meaning of the Proverb -- The Fool's Companion Suffers Harm.
Good Hearted Addicts can keep the chaos around (and always risking themselves) by tolerating that stuff to remain in their lives.
I would recommend a reading of the Holy Writs of one Doctor . . . Dr. Suess.
In particular -- Thidwick the Big-Hearted Moose
Thidwick the Big-Hearted Moose - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Since you are probably not likely to really read it (although I am for real -- it IS a Good Read -- but I have a 6 year old to help me overcome my own limitations on learning)
So for anyone not inclined to actually read it, here is the Wiki "spoiler."
================
Plot
A moose with a kind heart is taken advantage of by opportunist animals who take up residence in his horns under the guise of being 'guests.' The moose undergoes various hardships as a result of these residents, including loss of his hair, his herd, and almost his life. Eventually, the moose stands up for himself, rids himself of the unwanted residents, and rejoins his herd.
/
But folks sometimes have a hard time understanding the meaning of the Proverb -- The Fool's Companion Suffers Harm.
Good Hearted Addicts can keep the chaos around (and always risking themselves) by tolerating that stuff to remain in their lives.
I would recommend a reading of the Holy Writs of one Doctor . . . Dr. Suess.
In particular -- Thidwick the Big-Hearted Moose
Thidwick the Big-Hearted Moose - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Since you are probably not likely to really read it (although I am for real -- it IS a Good Read -- but I have a 6 year old to help me overcome my own limitations on learning)
So for anyone not inclined to actually read it, here is the Wiki "spoiler."
================
Plot
A moose with a kind heart is taken advantage of by opportunist animals who take up residence in his horns under the guise of being 'guests.' The moose undergoes various hardships as a result of these residents, including loss of his hair, his herd, and almost his life. Eventually, the moose stands up for himself, rids himself of the unwanted residents, and rejoins his herd.
/
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,778
Carlotta, you are NOT a loser. I appreciate your insight and humor so much. We can't perfectly follow the "rules" of detachment all the time. You had a visceral reaction to seeing someone you love *&^%$#@ up his life and hurting you in the process. You're only human. I'm really sorry this happened.
Much love and hugs to you. xoxoxo
Much love and hugs to you. xoxoxo
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Southern US
Posts: 785
I'm sorry, Carlotta It hurts to watch people we love suffer needlessly because of their addictions and their own stupid decisions. I don't think you're a loser. I just think you're a compassionate, loving friend who just forgot temporarily to use the tools she's worked so hard to acquire. Honestly, it's all of the veterans like you, who've made so much progress who gives the hot, crazy messes like me, hope that we can do better and be better 
It hurts to watch people we love suffer needlessly because of their addictions and their own stupid decisions. I don't think you're a loser. I just think you're a compassionate, loving friend who just forgot temporarily to use the tools she's worked so hard to acquire. Honestly, it's all of the veterans like you, who've made so much progress who gives the hot, crazy messes like me, hope that we can do better and be better Behold the power of NO
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
Good morning.
I want to thank everyone for their insight and encouragement.
Tomsteve, I always love your bringing it back to the steps and this is definitely what I am going to do Hammer: I just checked out the wiki and I think I am going to check it out of the library. That's actually a really deep story and I am a big fan of Dr Seuss (and no, I will not get the book for my friend).
I have to make some amend for losing it which was really wrong of me but I am going no contact as of now. I need to trust my HP to take care of my friend. I am not God and I just cannot make myself sick like that.
Anyway, I am in much better spirit. Thanks once again to all of you for being there and also reminding me to cut myself a break
hugs
I want to thank everyone for their insight and encouragement.
Tomsteve, I always love your bringing it back to the steps and this is definitely what I am going to do
"Any suggestion? "
start at step 1
powerless and some unmanageability
see the insanity?
turn it over
whys it bother you?
tell someone else. let god listen
wanna the junk gone?
humbly ask
hurt anyone?
make amends
accept your human
talk to god, then shut up and listen
help someone else and repeat 1-11.
start at step 1
powerless and some unmanageability
see the insanity?
turn it over
whys it bother you?
tell someone else. let god listen
wanna the junk gone?
humbly ask
hurt anyone?
make amends
accept your human
talk to god, then shut up and listen
help someone else and repeat 1-11.
I have to make some amend for losing it which was really wrong of me but I am going no contact as of now. I need to trust my HP to take care of my friend. I am not God and I just cannot make myself sick like that.
Anyway, I am in much better spirit. Thanks once again to all of you for being there and also reminding me to cut myself a break
hugs
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,295
Glad you are feeling better!
I read your initial post and thought, why was Carlotta surprised? She said he is an active A.
If he was in recovery, I could understand the shock. But being an active A, he does not seek sanity, does he?
So you lost me on the distinction between crack and alcohol. That's ok, I can't see the distinction, but you felt it.
I read your initial post and thought, why was Carlotta surprised? She said he is an active A.
If he was in recovery, I could understand the shock. But being an active A, he does not seek sanity, does he?
So you lost me on the distinction between crack and alcohol. That's ok, I can't see the distinction, but you felt it.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Originally Posted by Carlotta 
Good morning.
Hammer: I just checked out the wiki and I think I am going to check it out of the library. That's actually a really deep story and I am a big fan of Dr Seuss (and no, I will not get the book for my friend).
Hammer: I just checked out the wiki and I think I am going to check it out of the library. That's actually a really deep story and I am a big fan of Dr Seuss (and no, I will not get the book for my friend).
Well, then I will be looking forward to seeing you . . . .
on the South Shore of Lake Winna-bango, with the rest of the herd,
Having a wonderful lunch, of Moose Moss to munch.
==========
I love taking the boys to the library.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
he chose some crack vagrant over me and it hurts and refraining from interfering "for his own good" hurts just as much.
sweetie, you aren't some apple that got overlooked at the produce stand. he's doing what addicts do. he's hanging with people who do what he does and don't try to change him or get him to see the light. water seeks its own level.
you do not need this. any of it. and you surely do not need to interfere in someone else's life! especially not with the misquided sense of "for their own good." live and let live.
as for amends, let that wait for now. you are willing, but i think you need more time and clarity to see how BEST those amends can be made. NO CONTACT may indeed suffice! right now you have amends to make to yourself, get YOU right first, donning the oxygen mask and all that!
sweetie, you aren't some apple that got overlooked at the produce stand. he's doing what addicts do. he's hanging with people who do what he does and don't try to change him or get him to see the light. water seeks its own level.
you do not need this. any of it. and you surely do not need to interfere in someone else's life! especially not with the misquided sense of "for their own good." live and let live.
as for amends, let that wait for now. you are willing, but i think you need more time and clarity to see how BEST those amends can be made. NO CONTACT may indeed suffice! right now you have amends to make to yourself, get YOU right first, donning the oxygen mask and all that!
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