wpainterw

In today's N.Y. Times Letters to the Editors there is a discussion of the pros and cons of moderation management vs. complete abstinence. It's an interesting exchange of views but completely irrelevant to my personal situation. For I have proved, beyond a doubt, in experiments conducted over forty years, that for one reason or another (this too, namely the supposed "reason", is also irrelevant) I simply cannot drink in moderation. It seems that way at first but the slippery slope gets steeper and more slippery with each try. The amazing thing is that it took forty years for me to be convinced of this. But the bottom line is that I did become convinced and as a consequence I am alive, not dead. 2 plus 2 is 4 but, for an alcoholic, 1 plus 1 equals 100 or 1000- whatever it takes, and equals disaster. I'm an alcoholic. End of story. Or is it the beginning?

W.

Dee74

I tried every wrinkle of moderation I could...I always ended up back at square one.

For me the ending (of my drinking) was also the beginning of me as I am now

D

ChrissieB

Always wanted to moderate just couldn't do it, had to stop completely, attending AA has been so helpful

ScottFromWI

I actually tried the official "moderation management" plan. It did not work for me. Total abstinance has been the only thing that works to date for me.

PurpleKnight

A new story can't begin until the old one ends!!

I don't think debating the pros and cons is very relevant to anyone other than those that can actually manage moderation. For alcoholics it's irrelevant and not a decision to weigh up, there's only one answer, abstinence!!

autan

Moderation is such a flexible term isnt it ?

I would have considered the following to be a moderates night drinking.

8 x cans of Stella Artois Larger
1 Bottle of Red Wine
1 Bottle of Vermouth/Martini
3 shots of Vodka
A Turkish Kebab on the way home.

Just 6 months ago, this would have been cutting back a little and drinking in moderation for me.

PurpleKnight

The Kebab would have definitely been a deal breaker!!

I always considered if I had eaten during the night then clearly I was being sensible and drinking in moderation, despite not remembering much about arguing with a guy about the lack of generosity with the chilli sauce!!

Nonsensical

Moderation Management didn't work for it's founder, Audrey Kishline, either. She killed two people while driving drunk.

Moderation Management - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dee74

...when she had left and repudiated MM and was back in AA.

I think there's more than enough to draw on from our own moderation experiences without misleadingly including second hand stories.

D

wpainterw

Suppose one ate the Turkish kebab before doing all the "moderate" drinking? Would that help? An alcoholic might say, "Yes! And eat two kebabs and then you can drink twice as much! Well, let's make it three, four, whatever it takes!" The only thing that would save an alcoholic would be a trip to the ER to have all the kebabs pumped out, a trip which took place before he got to the booze.

W.

autan

Its funny you said this. I tried to start a fight with a Turkish Man, with a very large Kebab knife over the chicken breast content of a Lamb Kebab.

It went something like this :

"You cannot be serious, what do you mean, theres no chicken breast meat in your lamb kebabs. Thats fraud, thats cheating, just providing chicken legs and thighs. I have a good mind to take you outside and thrash you for not putting chicken breast in you lamb kebabs. When he said theres no chicken meat in the lamb kebab, apparently I hit the roof with him.

If I had drank as much as I had wanted to, I would have been much more pleasant and chilled out regarding my ignorance regarding lamb kebabs.

KateL

I have never been able to moderate.

ACT10Npack

Moderation never work for me. Once I start drinking, I stop caring how much I want to drink and go on a binge for days. Thats how I am and don't think I could change that.

nicole100

I think I agree with you--no moderation for me. Of course, this is day two of being normal..and by that I mean I had 2 Bud Light yesterday and two today. That is all and I feel good. But this is just till I go to my doctor to get her help in stopping officially. The fact that I was looking forward to the 2 Bud Lights is scary enough. I can see where that will lead me back to if I thought I could do that forever. Given it is part of my plan--and one that I am sticking to (and feeling better)..well, it will work for a couple more days. But after re-reading my initial post here, I'm fairly certain that I can never be a "normal" drinker and that it may in fact kill me if I were to continue on for any significant time. And if it didn't outright kill me, it would leave me fat, bloated and out of shape--as last year (2013) I replaced 2 hours an evening at the gym with more hours sitting home drinking. Definitely a poor trade.

To be honest, a good grueling workout was a lot more fun.

bigsombrero

Agreed. I'd drink a bottle of wine or a 6-pack of beer as a "warm up" or a "change of pace" drink just to get me back to normal when I got home from work. That gave way to as much vodka as I could stuff in my face before I passed out, which was a frightening amount. And that would just be a regular Tuesday night. I'd be shaking at work until 10am, panicking by 1pm, and then rushing home early to start all over again. That is, until I could no longer go into work and quit my job. Then I drank full time.

There is no such thing as moderation for me. Good post wpainterw. I am done listening to the finer arguments on moderation. They do me no good. We are in a situation which has no cure, except abstinence. We're lucky we have this chance, no need to play with fire.

autan

Well said !!!

bloss

Moderation in drinking was impossible for me, I drank till I passed out or blacked out, it took me years to realize that for myself, I had to not take the first drink.

least

Tried many times to moderate, always failed miserably.


Happier sober.

wpainterw

I'm very uneasy about any implication that having more to drink might reduce the chances ("chill out") of a fight with a Turkish man with a large Kebab knife over the meat content of a Kebab. My own experience on that is only tangential. Once, while working a summer job baling hay in Wyoming I was sitting at breakfast eating pancakes. These pancakes had been made by a chef who had arisen at 4:00 a.m. and who had immediately started drinking vodka. At breakfast he became upset because he said i had failed to eat all the syrup on my plate. He hovered over my back with a large carving knife. He was very drunk but this did not cause him to "chill out". He glowered and cursed at me and began to lower the fateful knife. My life was saved by a companion who arose from his seat beside me and grasped the knife wielding arm before it descended upon me. Some might say that if the chef had had more to drink he might have "chilled out" over my laxity with the syrup. There is always room for difference of opinion. Had I been drinking I might have smiled amicably up at him and we might have become fast friends. That morning I was not inclined to any experiments along these lines. My life was saved. Wisely I consumed the offending syrup surplus and commenced baling hay.

W.

silentrun

Never tried to moderate myself. Tried not to get caught and was good at it. I don't know if I have the ability to moderate or not. I know for sure I have no desire to. I'm with you W. No point to it for me. If your drinking is out of control why not just quit?