Lips sewn shut
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Lips sewn shut
Would like to know how many of you have a real hard time voicing your boundaries and such w/your A? I feel like I need to be better about outlining my boundaries but it's as if my mouth is sewn shut..no words come out. It's really hard for me to express myself. I know that even if hose words did come out my A most likely would continue on the path he is but at least he could never say I didn't say something. He can occasionally say something cutting and I just say nothing! What the heck! If you've had this problem, did you overcome it? How?
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Boundaries are for you, not him. It isn't necessary for you to voice your boundaries because boundaries don't require him to do anything other than what he would do anyway. Those would be called rules.
Your boundary might be something like:
I refuse to live with an active addict.
I will NOT argue with the addict.
I will engage in the games the addict plays.
That's the different between boundaries and rules. I may not have explained it all that clearly, but I'm sure others will be along and can do better.
Your boundary might be something like:
I refuse to live with an active addict.
I will NOT argue with the addict.
I will engage in the games the addict plays.
That's the different between boundaries and rules. I may not have explained it all that clearly, but I'm sure others will be along and can do better.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Yeah, that was a topic at church today.
The power of the tongue. For good or bad. And it is totally under own control, but not controlled so well so much of the time.
I have hard a time with Mrs. Hammer's Compulsive Lying since she back from Rehab.
Last week she had a minor one, but I had had enough. It has been a year, and my tolerance is very thin. Since "my boundary" is now I cannot control her lies, but I can speak the truth. Unfortuately part of my "truth" in that involved calling her a Dry Drunk, while asking her to: Get a Strong Local Sponsor, Work Her Program, and Get Competent Help.
All things which . . . in Full Truth are things that I should be doing, myself for myself.
=======
Not as a Bible Thump, but here is some of the church land topic, figured the content spoke pretty well to all this . . .
----------------
James 3
Taming the Tongue
1 Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. 2 We all stumble in many ways. Anyone who is never at fault in what they say is perfect, able to keep their whole body in check.
3 When we put bits into the mouths of horses to make them obey us, we can turn the whole animal. 4 Or take ships as an example. Although they are so large and are driven by strong winds, they are steered by a very small rudder wherever the pilot wants to go. 5 Likewise, the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark. 6 The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole body, sets the whole course of one’s life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.
7 All kinds of animals, birds, reptiles and sea creatures are being tamed and have been tamed by mankind, 8 but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison.
9 With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse human beings, who have been made in God’s likeness. 10 Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers and sisters, this should not be. 11 Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring? 12 My brothers and sisters, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.
Two Kinds of Wisdom
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let them show it by their good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. 14 But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. 15 Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. 16 For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.
17 But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. 18 Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness.
The power of the tongue. For good or bad. And it is totally under own control, but not controlled so well so much of the time.
I have hard a time with Mrs. Hammer's Compulsive Lying since she back from Rehab.
Last week she had a minor one, but I had had enough. It has been a year, and my tolerance is very thin. Since "my boundary" is now I cannot control her lies, but I can speak the truth. Unfortuately part of my "truth" in that involved calling her a Dry Drunk, while asking her to: Get a Strong Local Sponsor, Work Her Program, and Get Competent Help.
All things which . . . in Full Truth are things that I should be doing, myself for myself.
=======
Not as a Bible Thump, but here is some of the church land topic, figured the content spoke pretty well to all this . . .
----------------
James 3
Taming the Tongue
1 Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. 2 We all stumble in many ways. Anyone who is never at fault in what they say is perfect, able to keep their whole body in check.
3 When we put bits into the mouths of horses to make them obey us, we can turn the whole animal. 4 Or take ships as an example. Although they are so large and are driven by strong winds, they are steered by a very small rudder wherever the pilot wants to go. 5 Likewise, the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark. 6 The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole body, sets the whole course of one’s life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.
7 All kinds of animals, birds, reptiles and sea creatures are being tamed and have been tamed by mankind, 8 but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison.
9 With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse human beings, who have been made in God’s likeness. 10 Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers and sisters, this should not be. 11 Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring? 12 My brothers and sisters, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.
Two Kinds of Wisdom
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let them show it by their good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. 14 But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. 15 Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. 16 For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.
17 But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. 18 Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness.
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Originally Posted by suki44883 
Boundaries are for you, not him. It isn't necessary for you to voice your boundaries because boundaries don't require him to do anything other than what he would do anyway. Those would be called rules. Your boundary might be something like: I refuse to live with an active addict. I will NOT argue with the addict. I will engage in the games the addict plays. That's the different between boundaries and rules. I may not have explained it all that clearly, but I'm sure others will be along and can do better.
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Location: South Central USA
Posts: 1,478
Originally Posted by Hammer
Yeah, that was a topic at church today. The power of the tongue. For good or bad. And it is totally under own control, but not controlled so well so much of the time. I have hard a time with Mrs. Hammer's Compulsive Lying since she back from Rehab. Last week she had a minor one, but I had had enough. It has been a year, and my tolerance is very thin. Since "my boundary" is now I cannot control her lies, but I can speak the truth. Unfortuately part of my "truth" in that involved calling her a Dry Drunk, while asking her to: Get a Strong Local Sponsor, Work Her Program, and Get Competent Help. All things which . . . in Full Truth are things that I should be doing, myself for myself. ======= Not as a Bible Thump, but here is some of the church land topic, figured the content spoke pretty well to all this . . . ---------------- James 3 Taming the Tongue 1 Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. 2 We all stumble in many ways. Anyone who is never at fault in what they say is perfect, able to keep their whole body in check. 3 When we put bits into the mouths of horses to make them obey us, we can turn the whole animal. 4 Or take ships as an example. Although they are so large and are driven by strong winds, they are steered by a very small rudder wherever the pilot wants to go. 5 Likewise, the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark. 6 The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole body, sets the whole course of one’s life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell. 7 All kinds of animals, birds, reptiles and sea creatures are being tamed and have been tamed by mankind, 8 but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. 9 With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse human beings, who have been made in God’s likeness. 10 Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers and sisters, this should not be. 11 Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring? 12 My brothers and sisters, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water. Two Kinds of Wisdom 13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let them show it by their good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. 14 But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. 15 Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. 16 For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice. 17 But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. 18 Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Southern US
Posts: 785
I, too, have difficulty voicing my needs to AH, Katchie. I'm really bad about it. The thing I've learned about boundaries, though, is they really don't have to be stated aloud. They're not for my AH, they're for me. So, if my boundary is "no drinking" then I don't have to tell AH that's my boundary. I just have to know what I will do if he drinks and then follow through on it when he does drink. For me, I think stating the boundaries can sometimes be detrimental to our relationships because they become an ultimatum instead of a boundary. "If you drink, I will leave you." You drank, I left you. The focus is on HIM when it should be on ME. "If he drinks, I will leave him. He drank, so I left him." It's a subtle difference, I know, but an important difference.
That said, there are certain things that should be stated and should be non-negotiable (like not drinking and driving your children - from your other thread.) It doesn't have to be confrontational, just a statement to him and to the children (assuming they're old enough to understand.) "No riding in a car driven by Dad. Call me or grandma instead." In another thread, someone recommended giving older kids cell-phone and emergency cash for a cab. I like that idea.
That said, there are certain things that should be stated and should be non-negotiable (like not drinking and driving your children - from your other thread.) It doesn't have to be confrontational, just a statement to him and to the children (assuming they're old enough to understand.) "No riding in a car driven by Dad. Call me or grandma instead." In another thread, someone recommended giving older kids cell-phone and emergency cash for a cab. I like that idea.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Northeastern US
Posts: 122
Yes. And I don't even live with the A anymore.
But sometimes they really don't know if you don't tell 'em.
Once you tell 'em, they know where you stand and their actions will tell you where they stand.
It does get easier once you do it a few times! What would at the beginning of my SR activity have crippled me for days with anxiety, is now just a little stressful. (Thank you SR!!!)
But sometimes they really don't know if you don't tell 'em.
Once you tell 'em, they know where you stand and their actions will tell you where they stand.
It does get easier once you do it a few times! What would at the beginning of my SR activity have crippled me for days with anxiety, is now just a little stressful. (Thank you SR!!!)
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 220
Originally Posted by Katchie
I know that even if hose words did come out my A most likely would continue on the path he is but at least he could never say I didn't say something.
My qualifier did continue down the same path and did say that I never said anything.
He is dying now...has several months sober and he still says that I did not say anything. He could not hear me through his addiction. The alcohol kept him in the chaos and separated from peace for a very long time.
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
Boundaries and needs are two separate things.
A boundary is for you, no need to state it, it's not a manipulation tool. It's a healthy act you will take for yourself if he crosses a boundary you have set.
Example:
You set a boundary for yourself that you will no longer stand there and take his cutting remarks. So next time he says a cutting remark be prepared to walk away from him, drive away from him and the situation until you cool down. It also shows him that his words are no longer acceptable to you.
Stating your needs, always begin the sentence with I
I feel ________ when you say ________.
I feel hurt when_______.
I don't want to be around you when you _________.
A boundary is for you, no need to state it, it's not a manipulation tool. It's a healthy act you will take for yourself if he crosses a boundary you have set.
Example:
You set a boundary for yourself that you will no longer stand there and take his cutting remarks. So next time he says a cutting remark be prepared to walk away from him, drive away from him and the situation until you cool down. It also shows him that his words are no longer acceptable to you.
Stating your needs, always begin the sentence with I
I feel ________ when you say ________.
I feel hurt when_______.
I don't want to be around you when you _________.
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Northern California
Posts: 563
Thank you Katchie for this question and to all for your responses. As I am deciding upon my own boundaries with my ABF, I have been struggling with the question of communicating these to him - but knowing full well that they may sound like ultimatums and that in the end he's going to do what he's going to do anyway, regardless.
I really needed the reminder that boundaries are for ME.
Thank you
I really needed the reminder that boundaries are for ME.
Thank you
Recovered People Pleaser
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Heart of Dixie
Posts: 391
Boundaries are a reflection of my self-respect. They are my minimum data set. Just like my property line in my yard they are mine and I own them. They are rules for me not the A. I am the only person who will take action should others not respect them.
When I do set boundaries I do expect them to be tested (just like when I set them with young children) There are consequences. I say what I mean, mean what I say and I try not to say it mean. I do not JADE. I keep it simple.
If you are struggling, perhaps it might be easier to start small and set stronger boundaries as your confidence builds. If you do not want to be a doormat, you have to get up off the floor.
When I do set boundaries I do expect them to be tested (just like when I set them with young children) There are consequences. I say what I mean, mean what I say and I try not to say it mean. I do not JADE. I keep it simple.
If you are struggling, perhaps it might be easier to start small and set stronger boundaries as your confidence builds. If you do not want to be a doormat, you have to get up off the floor.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
JADE justify argue defend explain
-------------------------------
Just copy and paste that into any search and you will get a LOT of information.
and . . . .
Some gooder stuff.
I apologized last night for calling My-Little-A a Dry Drunk.
She said Thank You.
A bit odd, but Progress, Not Perfection, right?
=========
Step 10: . . . . when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
-------------------------------
Just copy and paste that into any search and you will get a LOT of information.
and . . . .
Some gooder stuff.
I apologized last night for calling My-Little-A a Dry Drunk.
She said Thank You.
A bit odd, but Progress, Not Perfection, right?
=========
Step 10: . . . . when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I stated my boundaries to my AH in counseling. I did so because I felt it was fair for him to know I have formed these boundaries and that I absolutely for certain plan to stick to them. I don't throw them in his face or remind him of them, he knows they exist and I do too. I don't want anyone to say I did not give a fair chance you know? I guess that is why I did that.
As far as needs, I agree, each person has reasonable needs they should expect from their spouse/sig other. If you cannot express your needs then there is something wrong with the relationship which is another issue. For me, I have to be careful that I consider my AH's needs too, that I do not just say too bad because things are not good. For now, we are still married and his needs are as important as mine are. Can we fulfill those for each other? Doubtful. Should they be unreasonable or cause the other pain....definitely no. Those become demands which is entirely different.
May God Help Us All!
As far as needs, I agree, each person has reasonable needs they should expect from their spouse/sig other. If you cannot express your needs then there is something wrong with the relationship which is another issue. For me, I have to be careful that I consider my AH's needs too, that I do not just say too bad because things are not good. For now, we are still married and his needs are as important as mine are. Can we fulfill those for each other? Doubtful. Should they be unreasonable or cause the other pain....definitely no. Those become demands which is entirely different.
May God Help Us All!
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Katchie---I can remember having 3 teens--alone, as a single parent (for a certain amount of time). I had a demanding job--as well as the needs of the kids to cope with--all needing rides to soccer games; to the library; and, so forth. When I was home I drove them--otherwise I made arrangements for someone else to do it. (1) sometimes, I bartered with the other mothers (you drive my kids on thursday and I will drive yours o n saturday). (2) I hired a "babysitter" with a drivers license for the period after school before I arrived home to do the driving. (3) I had a stash of "cab cash", in a jar at home, for emergency--to get a cab, if necessary.
It was a scramble, at times--and It wasn't always easy, but, with the grace of god--everybody got to where they needed to be. What I am actually trying to say is.....it might be helpful if you pretended that you were a single parent, in this regard, and just cut your husband out of the picture as a source of transportation. This will cause you to think "out of the box" to find solutions.
I know your situation is not exactly as mine was...but, I think you may get the picture.
Hope this helps a little bit.
dandylion
It was a scramble, at times--and It wasn't always easy, but, with the grace of god--everybody got to where they needed to be. What I am actually trying to say is.....it might be helpful if you pretended that you were a single parent, in this regard, and just cut your husband out of the picture as a source of transportation. This will cause you to think "out of the box" to find solutions.
I know your situation is not exactly as mine was...but, I think you may get the picture.
Hope this helps a little bit.
dandylion
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
Dandylion...that is just what I do now. I drive them to everything, this way I know. I figure they are safe, I have that peace of mind, and it is me being no worse off than if I were a single parent.
I too have formed friends and exchange rides with other parents. For me it involved being honest (to my friends, not complete strangers). I let them know my AH has an issue drinking and I want my kids to be safe so can they help out. Guess what...mommas band together! It does take a village and I have found people are willing to help if I am willing to ask. So yes, we ride share. Sometimes we are late, sometimes early. In the end, it all seems to work out by the grace of God!
Good Luck!
I too have formed friends and exchange rides with other parents. For me it involved being honest (to my friends, not complete strangers). I let them know my AH has an issue drinking and I want my kids to be safe so can they help out. Guess what...mommas band together! It does take a village and I have found people are willing to help if I am willing to ask. So yes, we ride share. Sometimes we are late, sometimes early. In the end, it all seems to work out by the grace of God!
Good Luck!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: South Central USA
Posts: 1,478
Originally Posted by hopeful4
I stated my boundaries to my AH in counseling. I did so because I felt it was fair for him to know I have formed these boundaries and that I absolutely for certain plan to stick to them. I don't throw them in his face or remind him of them, he knows they exist and I do too. I don't want anyone to say I did not give a fair chance you know? I guess that is why I did that.
As far as needs, I agree, each person has reasonable needs they should expect from their spouse/sig other. If you cannot express your needs then there is something wrong with the relationship which is another issue. For me, I have to be careful that I consider my AH's needs too, that I do not just say too bad because things are not good. For now, we are still married and his needs are as important as mine are. Can we fulfill those for each other? Doubtful. Should they be unreasonable or cause the other pain....definitely no. Those become demands which is entirely different.
May God Help Us All!
As far as needs, I agree, each person has reasonable needs they should expect from their spouse/sig other. If you cannot express your needs then there is something wrong with the relationship which is another issue. For me, I have to be careful that I consider my AH's needs too, that I do not just say too bad because things are not good. For now, we are still married and his needs are as important as mine are. Can we fulfill those for each other? Doubtful. Should they be unreasonable or cause the other pain....definitely no. Those become demands which is entirely different.
May God Help Us All!
Focus on his needs...ugh, I just don't think I can do that. There is so much work I need to on and for myself. Then, add on top of that my anger and grief. ugh.
amenHopeful4-----AMEN SISTER. Somehow, we mothers just manage to do what has to get done, when push comes to shove.Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: South Central USA
Posts: 1,478
Originally Posted by dandylion
Katchie---I can remember having 3 teens--alone, as a single parent (for a certain amount of time). I had a demanding job--as well as the needs of the kids to cope with--all needing rides to soccer games; to the library; and, so forth. When I was home I drove them--otherwise I made arrangements for someone else to do it. (1) sometimes, I bartered with the other mothers (you drive my kids on thursday and I will drive yours o n saturday). (2) I hired a "babysitter" with a drivers license for the period after school before I arrived home to do the driving. (3) I had a stash of "cab cash", in a jar at home, for emergency--to get a cab, if necessary.
It was a scramble, at times--and It wasn't always easy, but, with the grace of god--everybody got to where they needed to be. What I am actually trying to say is.....it might be helpful if you pretended that you were a single parent, in this regard, and just cut your husband out of the picture as a source of transportation. This will cause you to think "out of the box" to find solutions.
I know your situation is not exactly as mine was...but, I think you may get the picture.
Hope this helps a little bit.
dandylion
It was a scramble, at times--and It wasn't always easy, but, with the grace of god--everybody got to where they needed to be. What I am actually trying to say is.....it might be helpful if you pretended that you were a single parent, in this regard, and just cut your husband out of the picture as a source of transportation. This will cause you to think "out of the box" to find solutions.
I know your situation is not exactly as mine was...but, I think you may get the picture.
Hope this helps a little bit.
dandylion
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