What this forum is about

Old 12-28-2013, 11:57 AM
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What this forum is about

Serious question:

Should there be two or should this one take a step back and learn to be more aware of who is here?

I know that for many people, this forum is about the struggle to break free from an alcoholic and leave them behind. Sometimes that struggle involves unspeakable abuse, both the kind that leaves bruises and the kind that renders us too beaten down to act.

For others, their purpose here is to better understand and support an alcoholic who they love and wish to support through recovery.

Those two groups have a tendency to see the world a little bit differently and ruffle one another's feathers.


THose with hope for an alcoholic tend to get very negative feedback if they suggest that some alcoholics do recover and go on to happy, productive lives with their family. The simple truth is that there are many alcoholics who do enter and stick to a program like AA and they go on to a better life and many others do not.

I've gotten offended and have done some offending as a result of the dichotomy present here.

For someone who is at the point of despair and working up the strength to end a relationship I can see where it would be very hard to see someone else's prayers answered after so many of their own falling on deaf ears.

Likewise, for those who are seeking a happy ending in the face of long odds it is soul crushing to hear "yeah but" and "Just wait" as a response to any good news.


So first, my apologies for not being sensitive to the fact that it is hard to hear about an alcoholic who has gotten into recovery, worked a program relentlessly and more or less gone from worm to butterfly. I can understand where that could be painful to see.

Likewise I think there could be more sensitivity to those who are holding on to hope while the outcome is murky. I was never certain things would work out for us and I am not certain they will in the future because nobody is. It took every ounce of my strength and nearly broke my heart during the bad times and there is a difference between ensuring that someone understands the challenge in front of them.

There probably should be two forums, one for those seeking a better tomorrow with an alcoholic and another for those seeking a better future without one.

Until there is, I know I can do a better job of being sensitive to those who are looking for a bittersweet happy ending that is different from the one I seek and your struggle represents the deepest fears I had to set aside and ignore in order to cope when things seemed hopeless.

We should take what we want, leave the rest and understand that we all arrive here for different reasons but none of them are good. Some may provide us with hope, others with caution but all can add to our understanding and that is valuable. Whether someone is having a good day or a bad day here, they sure as hell didn't arrive here on a good one and while I've been hurt and offended by some things I've read I realize that I've hurt and offended others and that was not intended.

Whether you are here to find support as you work toward a future with an alcoholic or away from them I hope to learn from you and hope that whether the journey my wife and I are on provides you with hope or a bitter reminder that sometimes prayers are answered 'no'... I pray that we all make the best decisions we can with the tools that we have at the point where we are and that our time here gives us better tools to make better decisions for a better tomorrow because we learn from one another's triumphs and setbacks, hopes and disappointments and never lose sight of the fact that none of us has all the answers or even knows all the questions. Some who hurt or offend me teach me more than those who offer encouragement. For me, I ask why I am offended. Sometimes it is because they have a point. Sometimes it is because they are dead wrong. The former makes me wiser, the latter reinforces what I think and makes me look to see if I am missing something.


So.. maybe one forum, maybe two.... in either case awareness is important.

Apologies if my insensitivity, real or perceived, has ever caused you unhappiness and my thanks if I gave you hope or helped you in any way because two years ago I remember lying on the floor at the ER in tears faced with a sense of despair and powerlessness that was soul shattering and terrifying. Some folks here soothed and encouraged, some said things like "She was a train wreck when you met her, she's a train wreck now and she'll be a train wreck tomorrow". The latter infuriated me but may have done more good - it made me take stock of my wife (Then girlfriend) and forced me to evaluate what was true and what wasn't. Like all of us, she has imperfections and she has attributes. The alcoholism scared me and made me think very hard but I saw too much good to quit so long as she was willing to fight for her own survival. She did. Sometimes prayers are answered with a yes. Sometimes with a no, sometimes with a 'yes for today, tomorrow is up to you'.

I hope you get a yes and if not, I hope the 'no' you get is one you look back on and and realize that you got the right answer but were asking the wrong question because God had a better plan in mind that you were not ready for and the painful lessons are the most impactful sometimes. I would not have had the power to believe past the 'statistics' two years ago had I not left some oncologists scratching their heads two years before. The day I heard that I had cancer and the odds weren't betting odds was one I never expected to be the BEST turning point in my life but it was. Funny how easy it is to find the good in a day you were not supposed to have or accept the uncertainty of tomorrow when you've had 1000+ tomorrows you were not supposed to have.
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Old 12-28-2013, 12:30 PM
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Actually, I thought the purpose of this forum was to support the friends and families of alcoholics. Alcoholics have their own forum for support.
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Old 12-28-2013, 12:42 PM
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I think the approach of "take what you need and leave the rest" is the easiest and most straightforward way of thinking about this forum (and any community in general, online or not).
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Old 12-28-2013, 01:36 PM
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I dont know if a seperate forum would be better, but it would sure cut down the weeding thru of posts to find support for someone who is supporting recovery efforts of their A. I have read here that as folks lives calm down, they post less!
I read a lot here about the one year rule...from what I have heard from long recovered A' in open AA meetings is that every recovery is different. For some it takes years of being a dry drunk to realize thats not enough and they need to work the steps...not just be part of the fellowship, to achieve what I have heard in those rooms to be called "a life second to none"... And As a person who didnt go to college, get a job with great bennies and a retirement plan and who over eats and doesnt exercise and tries to clean the other side of the when mine is a mess...I know its about my choices and hind site is 20/20! So patience and tolerance for my loved one who although I see how hard he struggles with fear and ego and the vicious circle, he still just doesn' seem to get it..."yet" and he may never. But for now, I do see small changes and thats is progress. I know that I would like a place where it is easier to find help and someone elses es & h for those days that are less than perfect. I have read many many many threads that are very helpful on this board and will continue to read daily.
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Old 12-28-2013, 01:42 PM
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I think this is a great board and I believe that we all help make it that way. No board or forum can be all things to all people, but I believe SR and all that it entails is the best board of its kind out there. I have no desire to change it in any way.
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Old 12-28-2013, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by wysiwyg View Post
I think the approach of "take what you need and leave the rest" is the easiest and most straightforward way of thinking about this forum (and any community in general, online or not).
I agree.
It helps many people, and I don't think it needs any revision at this point either.
Just read with discernment.
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Old 12-28-2013, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Needabreak View Post
Actually, I thought the purpose of this forum was to support the friends and families of alcoholics. Alcoholics have their own forum for support.
Agreed.

What gets tricky about the friends and families label is that 'AND' is a term with two meanings.

They say we always look for ourselves first in a group picture so I read "Friends and Family" assuming the latter implies the former and that is not the case nor should it be.

Depending on one's reasons for seeking support, the word 'alcoholic' can bring out feelings of sympathy or antipathy and absent the proper context that can cause some head scratching (or eye scratching) at times.

If you ask the question "So if you could make a wish for the next year, what would it be?"

Some would say that their dream would be to see the alcoholic they know celebrate a year of sobriety and renewal 365 days hence.

Others might be more inclined to hope the alcoholic drops dead while they are reading this post - and knowing their circumstances you wouldn't blame them.

For others it's in the middle but it's good to know whether the person giving you feedback would prefer to see their spouse switch from vodka to coffee and cream or from vodka to coffee and Polonium ;-)
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Old 12-28-2013, 01:59 PM
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I'm not sure whether separate boards are helpful and here's why:

For many of us, we don't know if we're going to leave our partner or support them and some of us flip flop, some of us flip flop daily...that would be me. Truthfully, I think most of us are here because we're stuck in that should-I-stay-or-should-I-go place. If any of us could simply say "see ya" or "I'm here to support you forever" with any kind of resolute determination we probably wouldn't need to be here at all. Especially for those who's partners are still in denial about their issues but they have shared familial and financial interests. Very tricky and scary stuff.

For what it's worth Poh, I may not relate to your backstory, but your story is still a breath of fresh air here because its happy and your POV comes across as such. I still find value in your words, maybe just not any advice that applies to my particular situation. Further, it gives me hope that my husband can get and stay focused on being sober as your wife has.
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Old 12-28-2013, 02:01 PM
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I have been reading SR for several years since struggling with the "stay or go" question. Both threads have helped, and I have taken joy in learning of others' As' recovery and admired those who work a program alongside their partner. In my case, I was helped (along with therapy) in figuring out what path I should take with an active A, who was uninterested in recovery and who was increasingly hostile and abusive.

It might help for folks to include more description in topic headings (such as "XAH is drunk driving my child" or "Wife not working recovery" or "Need help getting out") which have some specifics.
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Old 12-28-2013, 02:03 PM
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Some posts are both sides of spectrum. That being said, there is always something in someone's post or respective replies that can help someone.
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Old 12-28-2013, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by peaceofpi View Post
I have been reading SR for several years since struggling with the "stay or go" question. Both threads have helped, and I have taken joy in learning of others' As' recovery and admired those who work a program alongside their partner. In my case, I was helped (along with therapy) in figuring out what path I should take with an active A, who was uninterested in recovery and who was increasingly hostile and abusive.

It might help for folks to include more description in topic headings (such as "XAH is drunk driving my child" or "Wife not working recovery" or "Need help getting out") which have some specifics.
I was going to say the same thing: maybe put more info in the heading and in the first few sentences so people can pick and choose threads they think are relevant (and non-inflammatory) for them.

Only trouble is, many people--especially early on are not sure what their point is--they just know they're hurting.

But I agree, SR gives us all sides, and that's been valuable for me.
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Old 12-28-2013, 03:13 PM
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I suppose we COULD read the description of this forum:

12 step based recovery forum- for families, relatives, and friends whose lives have been affected by someone else's drinking. If someone close to you, such as a family member, friend, co-worker, or neighbor, has or has had a drinking problem you'll find support here.
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Old 12-28-2013, 03:23 PM
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Everyone here is free to choose whether or not they will participate in a particular thread. If there is something about someone else's approach that you find particularly troubling, I highly recommend the Ignore List function.

As the Al-Anon slogan says, "Take what you want, and leave the rest."

This thread is now closed.
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