Stung

Do you detach from good stuff and bad stuff?

PohsFriend

I would offer ...neither.

Maybe this means different things to different people. I interpret it as making a conscious decision not to allow an outcome or what happens next dictate your feelings because you (try really hard with limited success) to accept that it's not up to you and you can't determine, and thus can't be accountable for, the outcome of someone else's decisions.

So... you come to a place, hopefully, where you can observe the outcome and be joyful if it is a good one and appropriately sad if it is not but in either case what YOU do remains the same.

I'm not sure a goal of not feeling the good or bad is an attainable one ...or even a healthy one. Not being controlled by the outcome or letting events define your happiness/sorrow is the goal IMHO.

That may or may not apply but hopefully gives you food for thought. You don't have to be a robot which is good because you probably can't be and don't want to be.

healthyagain

I detach from things that upset me, that make me scream, yell, punch walls, throw stuff. I detach from things that make me look like an abusive witch and him like a little innocent angel. And the good thing about this whole detachment thing that it is applicable to anybody who is pulling your nerves, alcoholic or not. It sounds too abstract in the beginning, but once you feel it, this control over your own life, over your own reactions, you will not want to let it go.

PohsFriend

Or...

If your twin is completely determined to commit suicide it sucks no matter what...

...but whether that twin is a conjoined twin has a LOT to do with your interest in the outcome and your need to detach from the outcome. Detaching doesn't mean you aren't affected by the fate of the other person, it means you are not destined to share in that fate????

Good grief, what's wrong with me that I can come up with that analogy? lol

Florence

Mmm, this was a hard one for me. It was stepping back emotionally and becoming something of an observer of my household and life, instead of trying to control outcomes. I let him fail. I didn't hide his pain or his secrets, or mine.

For me it is about facts versus feelings. I couldn't make good decisions about my life based on my feelings. Once I figured out how to feel the feelings and let them go, and keep track of the facts and patterns that were leading to tangible outcomes, I began making better decisions about my life. It wasn't so much about the A. This has let to a lot of good outcomes for me over the last two years, professionally, financially, and as a parent.

What that meant for my relationship with the A was that I finally got that if I wanted to stop being disappointed and/or setting the bar so low that I stopped respecting him (which is what eventually happened) I had to exit the relationship. Or, for example, that when I finally said, "I won't do addiction in my relationships," that meant leaving him no matter my feelings for or about him. YMMV.

Stung

Hmm...yes, I guess this means different things to different people. I'm not trying to detach from the world, just my husband. I am trying to not allow his bad moods, negativity, etc. derail me. Likewise, I assume that I shouldn't let his positive moods, words, etc. influence me as well? Or is positive attachment okay?

Florence

I kind of like this metaphor. If your conjoined twin is dead set on starving to death, you have to cut the cord for your own survival. That doesn't mean that you stop caring or wanting things for your twin, you just can't use the same liver anymore.

... okay, that got weird fast.

But yeah, you have to save yourself.

What that meant pragmatically: I separated our money -- if he wanted to spend every penny of his on booze and roach motels, more power to him, but he couldn't spend mine; went places even if he was a jerk about it (to his credit, he usually wasn't) where I made lots of new friends and networked my butt off; got a better, more stable job without asking his permission (really). What else? There were so many things I had to do over a two to three year time frame before I could see the way out. I took care of myself REALLY WELL no matter what his decisions were -- I got good sleep, I exercised, I did things that filled my soul. It was interesting that he really spiraled out of control during that time too -- whether to hook me into staying, or because he read the writing on the wall, or just regular old alcoholic progression, I don't know. But he got worse.

Which led to the final piece: educating myself on alcoholism, the disease, the family disease, how it affects the brain and body, and how codependent families find a way out of the madness. The more I read and participated in groups about addiction, the more likely I was able to identify things that were just regular old alcoholic behavior, and not offenses against me personally. Instead of getting hurt and mad at my AH, I'd think, oh, this is the disease. It was disappointing and sad to see him struggle with this, but I stopped being mad at him. I was more sorry for myself because I knew what I needed to do. But this made it more easy for me to distance myself from the outcomes of his decisions while remaining understanding of his challenges.

Hammer

Detachment.

Stung, you hear the term around here and Alanon.

And I do not know of its origin, but it is from a somewhat dated era in Early Alanon / AA.

Here is how I do the translation . . . .

Detachment = Distance.

Back when I was a Combat Engineer Officer (among other things we did was blow things up), what we were taught, and taught our troops is sort of like that . . .

Distance = Safety.

When explosives, (or people, or families, or whatever) "Blow Up," they have a "Blast Radius" or distance where things are not safe to be around. Sort of like the Poop Throwing Monkey story, if you followed that.

Same in the realm I work, now. High Voltage stuff. At the 100,000 volt range . . . Electricity does not care if you actually touch it or not. It (like an Active A) will reach right out and touch you -- generally in a very harmful way (again, like an Active A).

But like the Blast Radius, and the Active A, Electricity can only reach so far. So again,

Distance = Safety.

We stay away from the stuff.

Applying that back to *us* in the here and now. Getting the safe distance. Whether we are talking emotionally, or physically (such as you have done for the 30 day start),

Distance = Safety.

You already have the Physical Distance or Detachment. Now work on some of the Emotional Distance. That lets you safely work on YOUR stuff (whether he is working on his stuff or not -- not YOUR problem).

The Distance or Detachment does not have to be forever, or even long term.

But after that, you can start setting some "Boundaries." Those tend to be Long Term. Sort of like fences -- to keep You, The Kids, (and the A, as well -- they tend to wind up with a LOT of regret and shame for when they act bad), all safe from Blasts, High Voltage, and Harmful Emotions and Behaviors.

Stung

Okay. You guys are talking about only negative stuff. Your conjoined twin dying, mean alcoholic beating you down, getting electrocuted. Got it. Stay away from the negative. I'm working on that. But what about good stuff?

Allow me to offer my own analogy:

You're out with friends, your spouse isn't with you. Just you and your friends having fun at dinner. Someone hits on you and you just brush it off.

Something good happened (someone thought you're good looking enough to say something to you), but you brush it off and it doesn't make you feel great or change your mood.

In detaching from an alcoholic do you try to let the positive stuff stay out of your head too?

hopeful4

I have to be careful with this. For the most part I can detatch from the negative stuff although that does not always work either, I try my hardest and have become much more successful. I try and make sure that I don't detatch myself from the positives. I think alot of it just has to do with mood. Even though I detatch from the negative, it does still affect my mood. It has a different affect than it usto, I usto be so mad and really it affected others around me in addition to myself. Now it makes me sad at times that this is what it has come to, but I also have the realization of the 3 C's and I apply them all the time. I try very hard to still enjoy the good things in life.

So....I feel like I just typed a bunch of mumbo jumbo but that is how it translates for me...the best I can put it in words.

Hammer

Gotcha. Maybe.

It almost sounds like you are talking about sort of an emotional "shut down" or maybe mild depression.

I would say a very Firm No, if I am understanding you correctly.

The Detachment is just supposed to get you "Detached" from the Bad. Not "Detached" from life. Once Bad stops coming (it takes a tremendous amount of your own life energy to deal with it, you may know), you can start enjoying a lot more of life.

Maybe ask at one of your Alanon meetings, if they could go a meeting topic (sometime, not necessarily that same day) on "detachment," so folks around the room can do the various readings on it, and talk about how they apply it.

Stung

For what it's worth, I personally believe attachment is a good thing except for instances when you're attachment is with someone who is sick. When something bad happens to my friends or relatives, I'm sad for them and it does have an influence on my mood. I call this compassion. But when my husband is actively drinking his moods go 100 miles an hour and I can't keep up. It is maddening.

This morning my husband said some really, really nice things to me and it made my heart swell a little bit and then I thought 'uh oh, I'm not supposed to allow him to affect me.' However, this is good stuff but it's with someone who is still sick. So, I'm a little torn here.

I'm not applying the principle of detachment to my life, only in my interactions with my husband.

honeypig

You might find it equally as useful in the rest of your life, too--I think a lot of us here have found it to be so. In fact, a LOT of Alanon-type ideas and principles work really well in day-to-day life that has nothing to do with the A. Every now and again a thread crops up on exactly that topic; if you searched back as far as last summer, you'd certainly find a few.

I guess this doesn't address your original question, but I did want to mention it, since I think it's pretty important.

Florence

Let it be. Enjoy what he said and how it made you feel! There's no crime in finding silver linings. But I think the tendency is for us codies to place a lot of stock in kind words and over-invest against our future because we love potential. Man, how we love potential.

Enjoy what is good.

I found this and hope it's okay to link it here: Detachment with love gains new meaning -- Hazelden

Hammer

Good Gordies.

What a lot of rules in your head. THAT was/is how you are zipping along so fast. You are trying to flow-chart this.

Are you a Code Writer or Programmer or something?

==============

Let's try some pseudo-code . . .

IF A-BEHAVIOR = BAD
THEN DETACHMENT = TRUE
ELSE DETACHMENT = FALSE

==============

Your heart needs ALL the good it can get.

Let it enjoy the Sunshine.

CarryOn

This is what makes detachment so hard. I use detachment when I know that the end result of the behavior does not add to my own peace & calmness. It makes the vast majority of the things I detach from negative. I also use it to detach from my old behaviors - in some ways it is just being very conscious of our own behaviors, thoughts & feelings, and self-aware enough to adjust them as needed.

I can't remember if your H is still active or working recovery, but the nice things he said today...I think you can accept them for what they are in that moment. Just keep your expectations low so you are not disappointed or resentful later.

Stung

Hammer, ha! I'm an accountant. But I do use a lot of IF formulas in Excel…although you're teasing me, that was actually helpful.

CarryOn, he's working on recovery. 10 days sober so far. He's been trying to be nice to me but I've been giving him the cold shoulder, but now I'm just wanting to move forward and not dwell on what has happened. It's happened and what I do with it is my choice. I choose to be productive rather than stagnant.

CarryOn

By the way, LOVED your other post today!!

I gave RAH the cold shoulder for awhile too...he actually had to remind me that he had given me a gift for our anniversary (it was in August). I was so detached from him at that point that I basically blocked the memory.

Be productive - it's good for you and your little ones. Focus on yourself and your recovery. He can focus on his. Appreciate all the positive in your life - regardless of where it comes from. You are making great strides, keep going!!

dandylion

Stung---I have a hunch---and, I am only spitballin', here.....I am wondering if the basic issue--within this issue---is a lack of trust. You've been hurt---so, it might feel "risky" to melt at the good stuff, like you might have naturally done in a healthy, trusting relationship. Maybe, in a way--afraid to let your heart go because it will hurt so much more if you let your "guard" down and he turns into an A**hol*, one day

I don't know if I'm warm or not......just throwing that out there.

****As a little side point---In West Virginia, we don't ever l earn two things at once. That is too redundant. Like BadStuff and GoodStuff. We only learn one. Everything else is the other. Like in: Knowing the difference between Sh** and Shinola. You only have to learn one.*****

dandylion

Stung

Oh, the lies. He lied to me last night and I called him out on it. He then claimed that he "misspoke" to which I suggested that we look up the definition of a lie, and then he apologized for lying to me.

My husband lies, about big things, little things and a hundred other things that I don't even care about. He exaggerates too. But I'm either overly confident or naive but I think he's actually honest when he tells me how he feels about me. I think. I hope. :/