Need some opinions quick
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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Need some opinions quick
It is my son's school graduation in a couple of hours.
I emailed all the graduation events, times, dates and costs to XAH in October. So far, he has not managed to attend anything or pay for anything - he said he would pay half, yeah right LMFAO!
After he missed the final school assembly and my son was upset and a bit teary (I TOLD XAH about how that had hurt the boy) he phoned my son and said that he would attend the graduation today.
Now, I know he won't. He is going to forget. He has been so drunk the last couple of weeks that I'm surprised he is still alive.
Should I send him a text to remind him?
If I do is that enabling? I don't want my son to be disappointed AGAIN and yet I'm thinking that disappointing us is what their father does.
I emailed all the graduation events, times, dates and costs to XAH in October. So far, he has not managed to attend anything or pay for anything - he said he would pay half, yeah right LMFAO!
After he missed the final school assembly and my son was upset and a bit teary (I TOLD XAH about how that had hurt the boy) he phoned my son and said that he would attend the graduation today.
Now, I know he won't. He is going to forget. He has been so drunk the last couple of weeks that I'm surprised he is still alive.
Should I send him a text to remind him?
If I do is that enabling? I don't want my son to be disappointed AGAIN and yet I'm thinking that disappointing us is what their father does.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 453
I have no kids...so take with grain of salt.
I'd text him. Not to help him remember or anything about him. For your son. Because it seems that it is important for your son to see his dad at this great moment in his life. What kid doesn't want their parents to see them graduate?
That's my $0.02...
I'd text him. Not to help him remember or anything about him. For your son. Because it seems that it is important for your son to see his dad at this great moment in his life. What kid doesn't want their parents to see them graduate?
That's my $0.02...
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Posts: 1,057
I would remind him. This is about your son. He may not show. But if it is important to your son then it is worth a try. Unless dad is the type to show up intoxicated and upset your son.
It was always important to my girls that their dad was at their functions. I was the one who hated seeing him, but I sent him reminders for their sake. I still do sometimes and I don't consider it enabling. Just being a mom.
It was always important to my girls that their dad was at their functions. I was the one who hated seeing him, but I sent him reminders for their sake. I still do sometimes and I don't consider it enabling. Just being a mom.
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Well, that went well. Not.
I sent the text and got back an email full of lies in reply.
He can't make it. He has to stay back late at work - LIAR!
He had organised to leave work early but, sadly, no-one else is there so he has to carry the load all alone - LIAR!
He can't make it. He can't find a bus that will get him there and get him home - LIAR! I can find at least 2 express buses that will get him there and home in plenty of time.
With two months notice any normal person would have had this all sorted out. Oh and what happened to the new car he was buying last Wednesday? The new car which was meant to make stuff like this and being in the kids lives easier for him. That must have been a lie too as he was drunk when he boasted to me about that.
And why did he not let the kid and myself know about this earlier? Why did it take a text from me reminding him for him to make up his lies and excuses and reasons? Because he had forgotten and had no intention of doing anything. That's why.
I ******* HATE this ****. Now I feel like crying because the kid is upset and because the only other person who is meant to care about and love these kids like I do doesn't give a ******* rats clacker and is prepared to lie to THEM.
ARGH.
Oh, I told the boy. He is very disappointed. Asked me why his father wasn't coming. Kid is also mad with me. Apparently I would have had something to do with making sure his father wasn't coming.
FML.
I sent the text and got back an email full of lies in reply.
He can't make it. He has to stay back late at work - LIAR!
He had organised to leave work early but, sadly, no-one else is there so he has to carry the load all alone - LIAR!
He can't make it. He can't find a bus that will get him there and get him home - LIAR! I can find at least 2 express buses that will get him there and home in plenty of time.
With two months notice any normal person would have had this all sorted out. Oh and what happened to the new car he was buying last Wednesday? The new car which was meant to make stuff like this and being in the kids lives easier for him. That must have been a lie too as he was drunk when he boasted to me about that.
And why did he not let the kid and myself know about this earlier? Why did it take a text from me reminding him for him to make up his lies and excuses and reasons? Because he had forgotten and had no intention of doing anything. That's why.
I ******* HATE this ****. Now I feel like crying because the kid is upset and because the only other person who is meant to care about and love these kids like I do doesn't give a ******* rats clacker and is prepared to lie to THEM.
ARGH.
Oh, I told the boy. He is very disappointed. Asked me why his father wasn't coming. Kid is also mad with me. Apparently I would have had something to do with making sure his father wasn't coming.
FML.
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Hi Lulu, that's upsetting that your son is mad a you. Have you considered getting your son to take over communications with his father, in other words your son would be the one to remind him, not you? I'm talking about situations that directly affect your son.
Even in non-alcoholic families the younger generation will leave contact with relatives to the older generation, when they really need to take responsibility for it themselves.
All you really need to say to your son is that Dad is an A, and his behaviour reflects that.
Even in non-alcoholic families the younger generation will leave contact with relatives to the older generation, when they really need to take responsibility for it themselves.
All you really need to say to your son is that Dad is an A, and his behaviour reflects that.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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Hey lulu,
I wouldn't have reminded him & maybe that would have woken him but that's hindsight
As 12&12 says, pain is truly the touchstone of spiritual progress whether now or later-I'm perfect example...best wishes
I wouldn't have reminded him & maybe that would have woken him but that's hindsight
As 12&12 says, pain is truly the touchstone of spiritual progress whether now or later-I'm perfect example...best wishes
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Personally, I don't think not texting the guy would have resulted in a different outcome, now or later.
He sounds like he's squarely on planet Me.
This way, I think you did what any reasonable parent would do for their kid - all you could.
Hopefully your son will work all this out before too long, Lulu.
D
He sounds like he's squarely on planet Me.
This way, I think you did what any reasonable parent would do for their kid - all you could.
Hopefully your son will work all this out before too long, Lulu.
D
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Join Date: Aug 2012
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Is your son in therapy? Alateen? School counseling? This is one of those times when hearing from an outside third party might go over better than talking to you about it. I remember being so angry at everyone and everything as a kid because nobody was FIXING it. I didn't know then that it wasn't that easy. And I came to expect AM to not show. I was eventually more comfortable with her not being there because she whined the whole time about how it messed with her schedule (meaning she wasn't at home getting plastered). Just tell your son the truth: you reminded dad and dad chose not to come. That you truly do hurt for him because you know how important it is to have parents there. That you love him and will always be there. No bad-mouthing dad, you're taking the high road, and you're honest. He may still tell you he hates you, but you have no control over that. He will figure it all out in time. I did.
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Originally Posted by Dee74 
Personally, I don't think not texting the guy would have resulted in a different outcome, now or later.
He sounds like he's squarely on planet Me.
He sounds like he's squarely on planet Me.
I had hoped for my son's sake that for once XAH would put another human being he claims to love above his own need to drink and take drugs and not be all ME ME ME, but nope.
We had a lovely time without him.
Turns out the graduation was in an auditorium attached to a very large licensed premises. So, if he had come, no guesses as to where he would have been sneaking out to during the ceremony.
This child had a graduation from grade 6 a few years ago. XAH went to that. It too was held in a function room attached to a licensed premises. XAH got totally sh*t faced drunk. I was so embarrassed. The following year the school had to send out a special reminder to all parents that even though the premises served alcohol no alcohol was permitted at their function.
XAH has now missed every important school function this kid has had for the last 4 years. Every single one. He has always had a very special/good reason/ excuse/lie. Bless.
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Hi LuLu. I hope you don't mind me saying this, as I am an alcoholic.
You sound very angry at your ex and of course you want your child to have nice memories. But what's most important is how a YOU handle this in front of your son. There's no point playing martyr and bad mouthing your ex to your son, he has that message loud and clear. (This could be an assumption, but even before you texted your ex, your first post seemed very angry, sorry.)
I always admired my father for not bad mouthing my mother and letting the facts stand for themselves. I know it may be very hard to do, but eventually children grow up and they don't need your narrative of the story, they know what is going on. Be patient and love your son the best YOU can.x
You sound very angry at your ex and of course you want your child to have nice memories. But what's most important is how a YOU handle this in front of your son. There's no point playing martyr and bad mouthing your ex to your son, he has that message loud and clear. (This could be an assumption, but even before you texted your ex, your first post seemed very angry, sorry.)
I always admired my father for not bad mouthing my mother and letting the facts stand for themselves. I know it may be very hard to do, but eventually children grow up and they don't need your narrative of the story, they know what is going on. Be patient and love your son the best YOU can.x
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This is just what happens here. He not only missed DS16's graduation from a high level academic school, but even said he was disappointed that his son passed! OMG.
He did go to DD13's dance performance at our insistence. And never congratulated her or mentioned her star performance afterwards. He was too busy chatting.
And it continues.
I prompt him to come to events because I am my children's rock (a rather soft, fragile rock at the moment) and they rely on me to help communicate through that crazy A skull at times.
When he fails, it hurts all of us. But at least I have done the right thing and they know they can count on me to understand and assert their needs.
This has been very tricky to navigate but my first priority is my children. They win above any advice I get here, Al Anon or in court. If they really need something, I try to help them.
He did go to DD13's dance performance at our insistence. And never congratulated her or mentioned her star performance afterwards. He was too busy chatting.
And it continues.
I prompt him to come to events because I am my children's rock (a rather soft, fragile rock at the moment) and they rely on me to help communicate through that crazy A skull at times.
When he fails, it hurts all of us. But at least I have done the right thing and they know they can count on me to understand and assert their needs.
This has been very tricky to navigate but my first priority is my children. They win above any advice I get here, Al Anon or in court. If they really need something, I try to help them.
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Originally Posted by Croissant
Hi LuLu. I hope you don't mind me saying this, as I am an alcoholic.
You sound very angry at your ex and of course you want your child to have nice memories. But what's most important is how a YOU handle this in front of your son. There's no point playing martyr and bad mouthing your ex to your son, he has that message loud and clear. (This could be an assumption, but even before you texted your ex, your first post seemed very angry, sorry.)
You sound very angry at your ex and of course you want your child to have nice memories. But what's most important is how a YOU handle this in front of your son. There's no point playing martyr and bad mouthing your ex to your son, he has that message loud and clear. (This could be an assumption, but even before you texted your ex, your first post seemed very angry, sorry.)
I make no apologies for being angry and blowing off steam H E R E.
I did not, do not, have never and will not bad mouth my children's' father in front of them. They will come to their own realization and truth about what a LOSER drunk and drug addict their father is without my help.
In the car on the way to the graduation I told the kids that I was sorry their father was not coming. I told them that I had done all I could - forwarding all emails from the school containing days, times, events, costs etc. I even created a Word document, bullet pointed, with days, times, events and costs and sent that to their father. Oh and of course the text that I didn't want to send because it seemed too enabling (didn't tell the kids that) but did anyway for their sake. I told them that their father was not coming despite all the reminders because he is an alcoholic and a drug addict and this is what they do.
I wanted to say it was really because he's a ******* ******** who just wants to do oral on a bottle and a bong and watch porn but I managed to restrain myself.
We are coming up to their 2nd Xmas with their father out of the house. I know he will not bother to do anything for his kids at Xmas. He hasn't bothered to even get them a card with 5 bucks in it for their birthdays. One kid has now gone through two birthdays filled with XAH's false promises. It was his graduation. I think he may be starting to see a pattern by now...
My 94 year old grandmother is still able to acknowledge her great grandchildren on their birthdays and at Xmas, she forgets their names sometimes but she at least makes a freakin' effort.
I'm angry with HIM but I'm also angry with ME. I sent that freakin' enabling text. My inner Pollyanna was hoping that the text would ensure he would do the right thing, give him a reminder to do the right thing, give him a chance to do the right thing. BUT, like I always say, if my XAH is given a choice between two things, one of which is obviously the right and kind and adult thing to do and one of which is selfish and so OBVIOUSLY wrong, one which will hurt other people, he's always gonna' pick choice number 2.
E v e r y s i n g l e f r e a k i n' t i m e.
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I'm so sorry your son was disappointed yet again. I'm really sorry, too, that he takes his hurt out on the nearest safe person, you. But he is young and is still learning about how much he can't depend on his Dad while he is still drinking.
The whole thing just breaks my heart for all of you, but it sounds like you handled it really well! I totally agree that, reminder or not, your ex was unlikely to show because of his life on Planet Me as Dee says.
I'm happy to hear that you and your son had a good time!
The whole thing just breaks my heart for all of you, but it sounds like you handled it really well! I totally agree that, reminder or not, your ex was unlikely to show because of his life on Planet Me as Dee says.
I'm happy to hear that you and your son had a good time!
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As you may or may not know about me is the fact that I HATE labels. You are certainly not being an "enabler" by reminding him. This is your son, and his feelings are at stake. My son is 21 and I still call his low life addict father and remind him of dates...that's just me though!
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I'm sorry Lulu. It's one thing to be let down personally, but it brings a whole different level of pain when we watch them do it to our children. I have been in your shoes. My xah was the same for years while he spent his all of his time with new girlfriend and booze. It wasn't until I was planning a move out of state and hiring an attorney to prove why I should be allowed to take my kids that far away that something snapped in him and he decided to start being a father again.
My middle daughter (now 17...was 3 when the divorce happened) places some of the blame on me still. Thinks I should have taken him back when he cheated on me, doesn't understand why I wouldn't give him a second chance. I pray that one day she will understand and accept the truth--that a second chance wouldn't have changed the alcoholism or the lying or the cheating. He is who he is.
The regret I have is that I didn't understand the sickness of addiction while my children and I were going through our hell with him. It was abandonment, but I didn't understand its connection to alcoholism. If I had, I would have worked harder to educate my girls about the illness. To help them to really understand that his leaving wasn't anybody's fault/choice but his own. Children, whether they talk about it openly or not, manage to find blame in themselves when abandoned by their parents. I did as a child, and my girls did the same. It breaks my heart for them.
You can't make your son's jackass father be there for him, as you know. But you can help children begin to understand the illness of addiction. So that they can take the weight of the alcoholic's choices off their shoulders. So that they can see that the choices have nothing to do with them, but the A's own selfish sickness. Alateen, counseling, books...anything to help them start their own healing.
I am sorry for all of you, and keeping you all in my thoughts. Don't be angry with yourself. Sending him a reminder text didn't have anything to do with the outcome. He wasn't going to show, unfortunately, but you tried for you son and that's okay.
My middle daughter (now 17...was 3 when the divorce happened) places some of the blame on me still. Thinks I should have taken him back when he cheated on me, doesn't understand why I wouldn't give him a second chance. I pray that one day she will understand and accept the truth--that a second chance wouldn't have changed the alcoholism or the lying or the cheating. He is who he is.
The regret I have is that I didn't understand the sickness of addiction while my children and I were going through our hell with him. It was abandonment, but I didn't understand its connection to alcoholism. If I had, I would have worked harder to educate my girls about the illness. To help them to really understand that his leaving wasn't anybody's fault/choice but his own. Children, whether they talk about it openly or not, manage to find blame in themselves when abandoned by their parents. I did as a child, and my girls did the same. It breaks my heart for them.
You can't make your son's jackass father be there for him, as you know. But you can help children begin to understand the illness of addiction. So that they can take the weight of the alcoholic's choices off their shoulders. So that they can see that the choices have nothing to do with them, but the A's own selfish sickness. Alateen, counseling, books...anything to help them start their own healing.
I am sorry for all of you, and keeping you all in my thoughts. Don't be angry with yourself. Sending him a reminder text didn't have anything to do with the outcome. He wasn't going to show, unfortunately, but you tried for you son and that's okay.
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Originally Posted by Lulu39
It appears to be an assumption you have made.
I make no apologies for being angry and blowing off steam H E R E.
I did not, do not, have never and will not bad mouth my children's' father in front of them. They will come to their own realization and truth about what a LOSER drunk and drug addict their father is without my help.
In the car on the way to the graduation I told the kids that I was sorry their father was not coming. I told them that I had done all I could - forwarding all emails from the school containing days, times, events, costs etc. I even created a Word document, bullet pointed, with days, times, events and costs and sent that to their father. Oh and of course the text that I didn't want to send because it seemed too enabling (didn't tell the kids that) but did anyway for their sake. I told them that their father was not coming despite all the reminders because he is an alcoholic and a drug addict and this is what they do.
I wanted to say it was really because he's a ******* ******** who just wants to do oral on a bottle and a bong and watch porn but I managed to restrain myself.
We are coming up to their 2nd Xmas with their father out of the house. I know he will not bother to do anything for his kids at Xmas. He hasn't bothered to even get them a card with 5 bucks in it for their birthdays. One kid has now gone through two birthdays filled with XAH's false promises. It was his graduation. I think he may be starting to see a pattern by now...
My 94 year old grandmother is still able to acknowledge her great grandchildren on their birthdays and at Xmas, she forgets their names sometimes but she at least makes a freakin' effort.
I'm angry with HIM but I'm also angry with ME. I sent that freakin' enabling text. My inner Pollyanna was hoping that the text would ensure he would do the right thing, give him a reminder to do the right thing, give him a chance to do the right thing. BUT, like I always say, if my XAH is given a choice between two things, one of which is obviously the right and kind and adult thing to do and one of which is selfish and so OBVIOUSLY wrong, one which will hurt other people, he's always gonna' pick choice number 2.
E v e r y s i n g l e f r e a k i n' t i m e.
I make no apologies for being angry and blowing off steam H E R E.
I did not, do not, have never and will not bad mouth my children's' father in front of them. They will come to their own realization and truth about what a LOSER drunk and drug addict their father is without my help.
In the car on the way to the graduation I told the kids that I was sorry their father was not coming. I told them that I had done all I could - forwarding all emails from the school containing days, times, events, costs etc. I even created a Word document, bullet pointed, with days, times, events and costs and sent that to their father. Oh and of course the text that I didn't want to send because it seemed too enabling (didn't tell the kids that) but did anyway for their sake. I told them that their father was not coming despite all the reminders because he is an alcoholic and a drug addict and this is what they do.
I wanted to say it was really because he's a ******* ******** who just wants to do oral on a bottle and a bong and watch porn but I managed to restrain myself.
We are coming up to their 2nd Xmas with their father out of the house. I know he will not bother to do anything for his kids at Xmas. He hasn't bothered to even get them a card with 5 bucks in it for their birthdays. One kid has now gone through two birthdays filled with XAH's false promises. It was his graduation. I think he may be starting to see a pattern by now...
My 94 year old grandmother is still able to acknowledge her great grandchildren on their birthdays and at Xmas, she forgets their names sometimes but she at least makes a freakin' effort.
I'm angry with HIM but I'm also angry with ME. I sent that freakin' enabling text. My inner Pollyanna was hoping that the text would ensure he would do the right thing, give him a reminder to do the right thing, give him a chance to do the right thing. BUT, like I always say, if my XAH is given a choice between two things, one of which is obviously the right and kind and adult thing to do and one of which is selfish and so OBVIOUSLY wrong, one which will hurt other people, he's always gonna' pick choice number 2.
E v e r y s i n g l e f r e a k i n' t i m e.
I don't think I'd call that text enabling...it wasn't about him and you, it was about your kids and an especially big, important day.
I don't see anything about you being a martyr...and I don't think covering for him is good, either (iow, I think your explanation to them as to why he wasn't coming was good). Teaches the kids that this is what alcoholism/drug addiction does to people. No sugar coating. That's reality.
I'm sorry you are dealing with this, and also dealing with assumptions being made about you...I see nothing wrong with venting about the alcoholic HERE...after all, that's one of the things this site is here for.
Peace.
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It sounds like you did your very best for DS & that's what matters Lulu. (((HUGS)))
FWIW, it may not be a popular opinion, but for ME there came a point where standing up for DD meant NOT worrying about sending RAH (AH at the time) reminder texts or any reminders past the initial contact/info about events like this. At some I point early on I got REALLY tired of being pushed against both sides in the middle & no one coming out the winner.... because even through all of that he still didn't show, still made excuses, DD still became disappointed & still got irritated with ME despite all my efforts.
So, my way of handling it was about preparing DD for the realities & working on making sure she had her coping tools in place so that when he didn't show, again, it wasn't as crushing to her. I never bad-mouthed him, but if she asked me "do you think he'll show?" I would respond asking her what SHE thought. She would immediately recall the last event - "he didn't show the last 3x, mom, doubt he's going to make it today" and then I would agree, "well, we never know what another person may or may not do but you're right... past actions DO indicate future behavior...."
Of course, the trade-off is that she has held off part of herself from him - the part that trusts blindly. So now, he really has to EARN that trust back from her. She loves him, most definitely, but she hesitates to share problems or ask for advice. It's sad to me, but he earned that distrust & it's up to him to restore it.
She's as entitled to her boundaries as I am to mine, she just needs some help from time to time in defining them & amending them if/when necessary. I feel better about how she will treat future relationships because she understands boundaries in a way that I never did as ACOA.
FWIW, it may not be a popular opinion, but for ME there came a point where standing up for DD meant NOT worrying about sending RAH (AH at the time) reminder texts or any reminders past the initial contact/info about events like this. At some I point early on I got REALLY tired of being pushed against both sides in the middle & no one coming out the winner.... because even through all of that he still didn't show, still made excuses, DD still became disappointed & still got irritated with ME despite all my efforts.
So, my way of handling it was about preparing DD for the realities & working on making sure she had her coping tools in place so that when he didn't show, again, it wasn't as crushing to her. I never bad-mouthed him, but if she asked me "do you think he'll show?" I would respond asking her what SHE thought. She would immediately recall the last event - "he didn't show the last 3x, mom, doubt he's going to make it today" and then I would agree, "well, we never know what another person may or may not do but you're right... past actions DO indicate future behavior...."
Of course, the trade-off is that she has held off part of herself from him - the part that trusts blindly. So now, he really has to EARN that trust back from her. She loves him, most definitely, but she hesitates to share problems or ask for advice. It's sad to me, but he earned that distrust & it's up to him to restore it.
She's as entitled to her boundaries as I am to mine, she just needs some help from time to time in defining them & amending them if/when necessary. I feel better about how she will treat future relationships because she understands boundaries in a way that I never did as ACOA.
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Hey Lulu.
so sorry.
you know it is okay to cry? I have watched the folks at Alanon who do get better. They seem to cry some. Even the knitters.
Folks that stay angry -- not so much.
On the things you can control -- which is you -- maybe sometimes choose Sad over Mad?
I know Mad and Angry feel stronger. But I do not think they will lead you on a path you will want your heart to go.
Just pondering.
so sorry.
you know it is okay to cry? I have watched the folks at Alanon who do get better. They seem to cry some. Even the knitters.
Folks that stay angry -- not so much.
On the things you can control -- which is you -- maybe sometimes choose Sad over Mad?
I know Mad and Angry feel stronger. But I do not think they will lead you on a path you will want your heart to go.
Just pondering.
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