lillamy

I'm not going to link to the article unless someone expressly requests it, because it triggered me something fierce.

I just read a story this morning that was supposed to be "heartwarming" and "feel-good" and "restore your faith in humanity."

It did neither for me. It raised my blood pressure and made me angry. And I think I need your help sorting through it.

So the story is this: An alcoholic man shoots and kills his wife with eight shots in a drunken rage. In front of their 16-year-old. He is convicted of murder. An older sibling raises the 16-year-old and another sibling. Mom is dead. Dad is serving, I forget, 14 years or something for murder.

The feel-good part?

The children started their Thanksgiving dinner with their father giving the Thanksgiving blessing over the phone from prison. The children have forgiven their father because he was drunk and has absolutely no memory of what happened the night his wife ended up with 8 bullets in her. He wasn't aware of what he was doing, the children say. And "mother would have wanted us to forgive him, because that's the way she raised us, to be understanding and forgiving."

Needless to say (for those of you who know my story), I read that and I think "there, but for the grace of God, go I." I could have been that woman. Those children could have been my children.

Is forgiveness wrong? No. But what I'm hearing is not forgiveness. What I'm hearing is explaining away the responsibility of the murderer with the fact that he was drunk and that, my friends, raises my blood pressure and makes me think homicidal thoughts.

I don't for a second think that what those children are doing is healthy and "ending the curse of alcoholism in our family" -- I think what they're doing is perpetuating the codependent life they were raised to live.

I think it's hitting close to home because it's one of two stories from my neck of the woods of husbands killing wives and the children ending up supporting their father. There is nothing healthy in that. There's something very, very pathological in children not being able to turn their back on the person who murdered one of their parents. Very, very sick.

Or am I wrong here? Am I just an unforgiving vengeful witch?

OnawaMiniya

What I'm hearing is explaining away the responsibility of the murderer with the fact that he was drunk and that, my friends, raises my blood pressure and makes me think homicidal thoughts.

From the way you describe the story, it does seem like they are explaining away the behavior by saying he was drunk...

That's sad.

I wonder what dad's thoughts are...

soberhawk

I think many feel good stories are pathetic, just the fact they are made to stories make them superficial. Some things loose their core if they get to the mass media ane become something else.

I was read a book by the current pope some time back where he had some comments on forgiveness I liked. He stated that people can not receive the forgiveness without repentance, it is not important if you forgive someone that had not “deserved it” their forgiveness will be of no value to them if they do not repent. It is an interesting way to see it?

I never forgave my father, I did not visit him when he died or attended his funeral.

I would have done that today, I would have forgiven him and let it go.

But he would not be saying grace in my home.

Spinner-007

I think the adjectives of the story(hearted warming, etc) was peddled by those who do not have any idea what its like to be in a marriage or relationship with an addict/alcoholic.

Would the killing of a child, in the same vicious manner, by a parent under the influence change the tone of the story? You bet your life it would.

The story seems to say as long as its a spouse, or adult/adult killing under the influence is 'eh, ok...cuz it's adults we're talking about, and it happens, ya know?'. Just another death. But this, we can forgive.

I try to find good in things and events today, now more than ever, but in this story, there is no good.

DesertEyes

I feel bad for them. I think they have been seriously damaged through the "brainwashing" and "Stockholm syndrome" that people get in those situations. I hope they find people around them with a lot of compassion and kindness.

eeesh, that story you described is not the way I understand "forgiveness".

I had a lot of trouble with that concept when I first got into recovery. My sponsor told me to look it up in the dictionary and invent my own definition.

I see a huge difference between "forgiveness" and "absolution".

"Forgiveness" is what a bank does with a loan. If they lend money to some loser who skips town with the money the bank will calculate how much it will cost to chase down the loser and garnish wages. If it costs more than the money lost in the loan they just don't bother. They "forgive" the loan, but you better believe they report the loser to the credit companies and _never_ lend a cent to that person again.

"Absolution" is what a parent does with a child. I once helped raise a toddler, and I actually did put a small glass of juice within reach. She promptly swept it aside and I had glass all over the floor. I am not going to get angry at the child, I am the fool who put the glass there. I am not going to write it down in a journal and when she turns 18 ask her for a buck to pay for the glass. I absolve the child of all consequences because she's a _toddler_.

As far as violence, my father was an abusive drunk. Beat up my mother and yours truly. Not the worst in the world, I've heard much worse stories than mine, but bad enough. That man owed me a childhood, some doctor bills and therapist bills. But he's a loser, he never had enough money to pay rent, he's never going to pay my bills. And he's never going to give me back my childhood, he never had what it takes to be kind and gentle with a child. I don't _want_ him for a parent, even as an adult.

So I forgave him for what he owes me.

I went "no-contact". Hired a lawyer to tell my father that if he ever set foot in the same _state_ as my children I would report him to his parole officer so fast it would make his head swim. When he passed away I did help his wife with the will and probate and all that nonsense, she was just another victim.

I did _not_ absolve him from the consequences of his behavior. I gave up trying to collect a debt that was costing me way too much emotional effort for absolutely no return.

Mike

Hammer

I did like this part . . .

"from prison"

Since things seem to be sort of working for them in their own way . . . hopefully THAT part will remain that way for a Very, VERY, Long Time.

posiesperson

I've struggled with forgiveness, too, and especially in the early days of program. In working through that I unearthed decades of anger that I had repressed so that I could survive my childhood.

In the last 2 years I've done a lot of forgiving. I did it for myself, because after the anger had been acknowledged and released to a great extent (it still pops up, but I move through it) it was too heavy to carry around all of that "stuff." In my case some of those I needed most to forgive were accountable for their actions. They asked for my forgiveness, and when I could offer that I found that I wanted to be forgiven for my part, too.

That doesn't mean that what happened was my fault, because I was a child. But some ways that I handled things as an adult were not conducive to healing the wounds.

Accountability (which is perhaps the same as "repentance" that Desert Eyes mentioned) is a key factor for me. I can forgive anyone, whether or not I ever have contact with them. But to have a relationship, such as this family has done, I would need to hear about his acceptance of accountability for having picked up the drink, shot his wife, and be acknowledging of the effects of his terrible actions.

Prison gives people a whole lot of time to consider these sorts of things. I can only hope the father is working a program, utilizing the groups and connecting with a HP. If not, then there's still plenty of opportunity for each person to explore their paths, one day at a time.

I don't disagree with you, lilamy. I've just found that as I work my program things are not nearly as black and white as they used to be for me...I want to wake up peaceful with myself each day, and to do that, I have to be accountable and forgiving of myself first...the rest will follow.

You are courageous, and deserving of a good life. I'm so glad you're here.

Hugs,
posie