Should I ask him to push himself ?
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Should I ask him to push himself ?
My husband has been home from rehab almost two weeks now. Its been good but I still find myself being hit with fear sometimes and it comes out of nowhere even more when I'm feeling happy. Not fear like I think he may be using drugs and I need to be suspicious. I don't feel any of that, its more like I keep remembering how sick he was, how scared I was at certain times and I worry it could happen again. I don't want to ever experience what I went through again. In counseling I've been talking about it, with my parents, not a lot with my husband because I feel like there is nothing he can say or do to make the fear go away and I don't want to burden him with it. We have talked about it a little in our family session so he understands it's there.
He doesn't like the outpatient program very much and still plans to end it right before the Thanksgiving holiday. He says it has too much talking with other people and hearing their day to day problems. He isn't one to be very open with strangers so I know it must be hard for him. He still has counseling sessions alone everyday, and he's told me the doctor thinks he should continue the outpatient and work on getting more comfortable in the group because it would help him not keep his emotions closed off. If not now, when we come back after the holidays. He says talking to strangers is not the answer for him. Is still planning to go back to work in January, doesn't see how he can do both that and outpatient.
I agreed to the time away for the vacation month he suggested, and told them at work but I feel in some ways like I should push him to continue the outpatient instead. He told me he won't go on vacation without me, and at one point said if I asked him he would continue the program even though he doesn't want to.
I feel really confused over the whole thing. His parents don't want us to go, but they gave in to let us have the vacation house. Knew we would find another place anyway, so what was the point? His dad has been more cool about it than his mom. Agreed as long as he does counseling while we are gone (by phone) and has a referral to a local doctor where we are going. His mom isn't saying a lot I think because she knows it will make him angry and he will do the opposite if she tries to make demands or guilt trip him.
See that's where I get confused, I don't want him to resent me if I say no, I don't want to go away, and would prefer he kept doing outpatient. I wouldn't ever demand it, but I think saying that much would guilt him because he knows I'm afraid. Im selfishly looking forward to our time alone, and the bigger part of me feels like he knows what he's doing. I still trust his judgement even though I know a lot of people would say thats crazy. If he needs to get away after being in hospital and rehab almost 4 months then I understand. It was a lot to go through.
Sorry if all this is rambling and confused to read, it's where my head is at right now. I know in my head if he relapses later, it won't be my fault for not pushing the outpatient, but I'm not sure I could forgive myself if anything did happen and I had this chance to ask him to push himself and continue outpatient, and I didn't take it. Maybe it all comes back to fear on my part?
He doesn't like the outpatient program very much and still plans to end it right before the Thanksgiving holiday. He says it has too much talking with other people and hearing their day to day problems. He isn't one to be very open with strangers so I know it must be hard for him. He still has counseling sessions alone everyday, and he's told me the doctor thinks he should continue the outpatient and work on getting more comfortable in the group because it would help him not keep his emotions closed off. If not now, when we come back after the holidays. He says talking to strangers is not the answer for him. Is still planning to go back to work in January, doesn't see how he can do both that and outpatient.
I agreed to the time away for the vacation month he suggested, and told them at work but I feel in some ways like I should push him to continue the outpatient instead. He told me he won't go on vacation without me, and at one point said if I asked him he would continue the program even though he doesn't want to.
I feel really confused over the whole thing. His parents don't want us to go, but they gave in to let us have the vacation house. Knew we would find another place anyway, so what was the point? His dad has been more cool about it than his mom. Agreed as long as he does counseling while we are gone (by phone) and has a referral to a local doctor where we are going. His mom isn't saying a lot I think because she knows it will make him angry and he will do the opposite if she tries to make demands or guilt trip him.
See that's where I get confused, I don't want him to resent me if I say no, I don't want to go away, and would prefer he kept doing outpatient. I wouldn't ever demand it, but I think saying that much would guilt him because he knows I'm afraid. Im selfishly looking forward to our time alone, and the bigger part of me feels like he knows what he's doing. I still trust his judgement even though I know a lot of people would say thats crazy. If he needs to get away after being in hospital and rehab almost 4 months then I understand. It was a lot to go through.
Sorry if all this is rambling and confused to read, it's where my head is at right now. I know in my head if he relapses later, it won't be my fault for not pushing the outpatient, but I'm not sure I could forgive myself if anything did happen and I had this chance to ask him to push himself and continue outpatient, and I didn't take it. Maybe it all comes back to fear on my part?
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It is fear, and it is very understandable. The thing is, you should not have to ask him to push himself. Even if he goes to outpatient, if he is not working the program it is basically useless. I think you should put those decisions in his hands b/c it is ultimately him who is doing the work.
That being said, if you don't want to go on vacation or are not ready, you should say so. You have that right.
Good luck to you and working out all of these feelings. Fear is very powerful and can make a person miserable.
Blessings and hugs!
That being said, if you don't want to go on vacation or are not ready, you should say so. You have that right.
Good luck to you and working out all of these feelings. Fear is very powerful and can make a person miserable.
Blessings and hugs!
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but I'm not sure I could forgive myself if anything did happen and I had this chance to ask him to push himself and continue outpatient, and I didn't take it.
the only person that can push him is HIM. it's not YOUR chance, it's HIS. he's making it pretty clear that he is going to do what HE wants, regardless of recommendations or cautions of family or physicians. HE wants to treat himself to VACATION, HE doesn't like group, HE doesn't see the point, HE says once he's back to work he won't have time. HE is going to do this HIS way.
if you don't want to go on vacation, then don't go. but also don't have expectations that he will then USE that opportunity to continue his program. cuz he is making it clear he's not that interested and does NOT see it as a priority.
most people don't the opportunity to have 4 months in hospital and then rehab and still have another two months before going back to work. most people can barely afford a 14-28 day inpatient. most people would see that their drug use constituted a vacation and it's time to get back to the real world.
the only person that can push him is HIM. it's not YOUR chance, it's HIS. he's making it pretty clear that he is going to do what HE wants, regardless of recommendations or cautions of family or physicians. HE wants to treat himself to VACATION, HE doesn't like group, HE doesn't see the point, HE says once he's back to work he won't have time. HE is going to do this HIS way.
if you don't want to go on vacation, then don't go. but also don't have expectations that he will then USE that opportunity to continue his program. cuz he is making it clear he's not that interested and does NOT see it as a priority.
most people don't the opportunity to have 4 months in hospital and then rehab and still have another two months before going back to work. most people can barely afford a 14-28 day inpatient. most people would see that their drug use constituted a vacation and it's time to get back to the real world.
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BlueChair---I am reminded of a saying that I have often heard---"He is going to do what he is going to do---what are YOU going to do?"
I have got to say that he does not sound very committed to the program of recovery. A person who wants recovery is willing to do anything that it takes without complaining and putting up all kinds of conditions. After all, he will need to work his program for life. A sense of entitlement is not a part of the program...LOL.
Do you have a boundry in place if he aborts the recovery efforts?
I highly suggest that you read this post--I think you will find it very appropriate for you, right now. Http://www.soberRecovery.com.Html "Ten Ways to tell when an addict or alcoholic is full of crap".
Let me k now if you can't find it.
dandylion
I have got to say that he does not sound very committed to the program of recovery. A person who wants recovery is willing to do anything that it takes without complaining and putting up all kinds of conditions. After all, he will need to work his program for life. A sense of entitlement is not a part of the program...LOL.
Do you have a boundry in place if he aborts the recovery efforts?
I highly suggest that you read this post--I think you will find it very appropriate for you, right now. Http://www.soberRecovery.com.Html "Ten Ways to tell when an addict or alcoholic is full of crap".
Let me k now if you can't find it.
dandylion
Recovered
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,129
Only out of 2 weeks and already going to stop following directions. I did this many times. (I've been to several rehabs). As soon as I got out, I had reason after reason (and they ALL sounded perfectly valid) to stop doing what I was supposed to be doing.
Vacation can wait. Sobriety cannot. I kept relapsing until I started following the suggestions given to me by my treatment team, counselor/therapist, etc.
In the meantime, you can only take care of your side of the street.
Hugs to you.
Vacation can wait. Sobriety cannot. I kept relapsing until I started following the suggestions given to me by my treatment team, counselor/therapist, etc.
In the meantime, you can only take care of your side of the street.
Hugs to you.
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,854
Originally Posted by dandylion 
BlueChair---I am reminded of a saying that I have often heard---"He is going to do what he is going to do---what are YOU going to do?"
I have got to say that he does not sound very committed to the program of recovery. A person who wants recovery is willing to do anything that it takes without complaining and putting up all kinds of conditions. After all, he will need to work his program for life. A sense of entitlement is not a part of the program...LOL.
Do you have a boundry in place if he aborts the recovery efforts?
I highly suggest that you read this post--I think you will find it very appropriate for you, right now. Http://www.soberRecovery.com.Html "Ten Ways to tell when an addict or alcoholic is full of crap".
Let me k now if you can't find it.
dandylion
I have got to say that he does not sound very committed to the program of recovery. A person who wants recovery is willing to do anything that it takes without complaining and putting up all kinds of conditions. After all, he will need to work his program for life. A sense of entitlement is not a part of the program...LOL.
Do you have a boundry in place if he aborts the recovery efforts?
I highly suggest that you read this post--I think you will find it very appropriate for you, right now. Http://www.soberRecovery.com.Html "Ten Ways to tell when an addict or alcoholic is full of crap".
Let me k now if you can't find it.
dandylion
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: East Coast
Posts: 427
You can't stop him from relapsing and even though it was a horrifying experience for you, doesn't mean it won't happen again. If you're like me, the second time won't be nearly as devastating because you'll be so over it at that point. Living in fear of what could happen isn't helping you any. It is a two way street and if you can't let go of what has happened, then you won't be helping your marriage move forward anyway. I know it's a terrifying time, but with addicts there's no logical formula of "well, he just relapsed and went through treatment, so there's just no way he would relapse again so soon..." Focus on you and do what you need to do for you.
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I think what set me off was someone I work with asked about our going away and then went on about how some relative of his got out of rehab and relapsed before long and because his body had changed during the "dry" period he overdosed because he took the same about he used to and died. It started the fear to bubbling up inside me again. I dont want to break down on him with all this and I feel like Im so close to doing that trying to figure out how to redirect my emotions so it doesnt happen tonight
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You're right. The reality of what could happen is scary. However, my experience is that there is nothing you can say or do to control the situation. Your AH has to find his own way--like all of us. His choices may not seem like the right ones, but they are his to make.
All you can do is take care of you and accept the reality--and what you can control (yourself) and what you can't control (him).
All you can do is take care of you and accept the reality--and what you can control (yourself) and what you can't control (him).
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I don't know if you already know about it, but have you considered nar-anon or al-anon meetings? They are designed for the loved ones of addicts and help you focus on your own needs regardless of what the addict does. You already know you can't control whether he uses or not, but you admit you don't know how to focus your emotions. Nar-anon and al-anon meetings are specifically for this purpose. Maybe you should check around and see what's available in your area?
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Don't forget how is parents reacted last time. If things don't go well during or after the vacation, you could easily become their scapegoat. Of course, they backed down and allowed him to use the vacation home, but that will never come up.
For me, I would need a much longer time to be comfortable with intimacy with my husband after he had been unfaithful with several other women. A month vacation sounds great but I wouldn't want it this soon.....for various reasons.
For me, I would need a much longer time to be comfortable with intimacy with my husband after he had been unfaithful with several other women. A month vacation sounds great but I wouldn't want it this soon.....for various reasons.
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My daughter also didn't like outpatient at first. Her counselor told me to encourage her to go because being in recovery means getting the addict out of their comfort zone. His explanation was that the addict needs to be out of their comfort zone to help learn appropriate coping skills. Most addicts' first response when upset is to grab for the bottle or the drugs. It made sense to us and so we encouraged her to stay, which she did. So, I would skip the vacation, and encourage him to keep going through the holidays, not afterward.
Also, I don't know if your insurance is covering his out patient but we were told that if she stops, or skips, insurance cuts her off. She missed 2 days because she got a job and they only do training during the day (her work schedule will be evenings). Our insurance cut her off. Luckily the out patient center called, and explained the situation and our insurance allowed her to start again with a reduced schedule. They were paying for 4 days a week, they will now only pay for 2 days per week.
Also, I don't know if your insurance is covering his out patient but we were told that if she stops, or skips, insurance cuts her off. She missed 2 days because she got a job and they only do training during the day (her work schedule will be evenings). Our insurance cut her off. Luckily the out patient center called, and explained the situation and our insurance allowed her to start again with a reduced schedule. They were paying for 4 days a week, they will now only pay for 2 days per week.
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I don't know many people who are serious about their recovery needing a vacation away from it.
It would appear he already has the old map out that leads to relapse. HE thinks he knows better then the counselors, doctors and professionals regarding recovery. And you can't forget that HIS best thinking was to use drugs.
The addict has taught YOU and his PARENTS to stand back, walk softly around him as to not disturb his thought process and manipulations. Don't upset the addict, don't give the addict any reason to have to use even at your own emotional expense.
Al-anon or nar-anon would do you all wonders.
I think your putting all the pieces of his puzzle together and not liking the reality of it. I also think you see relapse on the horizon but are not ready to accept it yet so sticking with the stinking thinking of saying or doing something might bring it about quicker and some how think you'd be responsible for it. So you rather put your own feelings aside to appease him and take a vacation away from his recovery.
And a daily phone call is a minor inconvenience that he'll agree to in order to stick with his thinking of doing the bare minimum towards recovery.
Been there, done that, heard it all, did it all, thought all the thoughts your thinking, allowed the addict to drive the bus and sat quietly on it as not to cause him further upsetment.
Anything he puts ahead of his recovery he will eventually lose.
It would appear he already has the old map out that leads to relapse. HE thinks he knows better then the counselors, doctors and professionals regarding recovery. And you can't forget that HIS best thinking was to use drugs.
The addict has taught YOU and his PARENTS to stand back, walk softly around him as to not disturb his thought process and manipulations. Don't upset the addict, don't give the addict any reason to have to use even at your own emotional expense.
Al-anon or nar-anon would do you all wonders.
I think your putting all the pieces of his puzzle together and not liking the reality of it. I also think you see relapse on the horizon but are not ready to accept it yet so sticking with the stinking thinking of saying or doing something might bring it about quicker and some how think you'd be responsible for it. So you rather put your own feelings aside to appease him and take a vacation away from his recovery.
And a daily phone call is a minor inconvenience that he'll agree to in order to stick with his thinking of doing the bare minimum towards recovery.
Been there, done that, heard it all, did it all, thought all the thoughts your thinking, allowed the addict to drive the bus and sat quietly on it as not to cause him further upsetment.
Anything he puts ahead of his recovery he will eventually lose.
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Originally Posted by LoveMeNow
Don't forget how is parents reacted last time. If things don't go well during or after the vacation, you could easily become their scapegoat. Of course, they backed down and allowed him to use the vacation home, but that will never come up.
For me, I would need a much longer time to be comfortable with intimacy with my husband after he had been unfaithful with several other women. A month vacation sounds great but I wouldn't want it this soon.....for various reasons.
For me, I would need a much longer time to be comfortable with intimacy with my husband after he had been unfaithful with several other women. A month vacation sounds great but I wouldn't want it this soon.....for various reasons.
His cheating has been one of the hardest things for me to deal with. We waited about being intimate until after he was officially home from rehab even thought there were three or four times when he had passes home where we thought about it. The family counselor told us to take things slow, we tried to. I think it helped us a lot to reconnect and Ive been able to replace those awful images I had in my head of him with other women, with new images and memories. Its selfish but I crave a month alone with him.
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Originally Posted by Leana
My daughter also didn't like outpatient at first. Her counselor told me to encourage her to go because being in recovery means getting the addict out of their comfort zone. His explanation was that the addict needs to be out of their comfort zone to help learn appropriate coping skills. Most addicts' first response when upset is to grab for the bottle or the drugs. It made sense to us and so we encouraged her to stay, which she did. So, I would skip the vacation, and encourage him to keep going through the holidays, not afterward.
Also, I don't know if your insurance is covering his out patient but we were told that if she stops, or skips, insurance cuts her off. She missed 2 days because she got a job and they only do training during the day (her work schedule will be evenings). Our insurance cut her off. Luckily the out patient center called, and explained the situation and our insurance allowed her to start again with a reduced schedule. They were paying for 4 days a week, they will now only pay for 2 days per week.
Also, I don't know if your insurance is covering his out patient but we were told that if she stops, or skips, insurance cuts her off. She missed 2 days because she got a job and they only do training during the day (her work schedule will be evenings). Our insurance cut her off. Luckily the out patient center called, and explained the situation and our insurance allowed her to start again with a reduced schedule. They were paying for 4 days a week, they will now only pay for 2 days per week.
It gets so complicated and I never thought about that part. I want to encourage him Im so afraid to make him resentful like Im using his love for me to manipulate him.
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Vacation seems to be a good idea to get away from the day-to-day rejuvenate and rebuild relationships. So don't over think it. I & my wife will be leaving on a vacation next week. This is our chance to focus on each other (and away from the pressures of work and the worry about our son). Have fun, we intend to!
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Bluechair- I know how it feels to be blamed. "well, if you held is money, or hold is medications, or don't let him use the car or kick him out...... he will be better"
His parents even blamed me.. .for a long long time. (even though all their kids are opiate addicts) Even this time.. telling me not to let him come home and force him into sober living. Then when I told his mom that he would have to stay in a shelter for a few days after jail.. and that he told me he wasn't going there.. he would rough it until he got into one.. she said, "oh- well I wouldn't let him stay out in the cold". So... she got why I was letting him home until he went to the long term treatment center. If not.. he would end up there. In drug central.
Do not take what his parents say personally. Yes, this is difficult. Work on it.
I do think fear is driving you. If he doesn't continue or want to continue IOP (for whatever good reasons.. they are always good reasons) It's really his choice.
You have to be ready to notice the signs of relapse.
Look in his eyes. Are his pupils constricted. Is he acting shady. It does seem he wants a break from reality.. and is trying to reward himself with this vacation.
In my opinion coming back to the stress of his job.. he will NEED someone to keep him in check. I would stress to him that you believe he should attend a meeting.. even one a week. He should find one he likes and people he can connect with. A lot of doing drugs is anti-social behavior. Learning to keep healthy relationships is difficult. I wish you and him the best. Only time will tell.. and great job keeping up with your therapy and counseling! I wish I could carve out some time.. (I have plenty of excellent excuses).
Good luck!!
His parents even blamed me.. .for a long long time. (even though all their kids are opiate addicts) Even this time.. telling me not to let him come home and force him into sober living. Then when I told his mom that he would have to stay in a shelter for a few days after jail.. and that he told me he wasn't going there.. he would rough it until he got into one.. she said, "oh- well I wouldn't let him stay out in the cold". So... she got why I was letting him home until he went to the long term treatment center. If not.. he would end up there. In drug central.
Do not take what his parents say personally. Yes, this is difficult. Work on it.
I do think fear is driving you. If he doesn't continue or want to continue IOP (for whatever good reasons.. they are always good reasons) It's really his choice.
You have to be ready to notice the signs of relapse.
Look in his eyes. Are his pupils constricted. Is he acting shady. It does seem he wants a break from reality.. and is trying to reward himself with this vacation.
In my opinion coming back to the stress of his job.. he will NEED someone to keep him in check. I would stress to him that you believe he should attend a meeting.. even one a week. He should find one he likes and people he can connect with. A lot of doing drugs is anti-social behavior. Learning to keep healthy relationships is difficult. I wish you and him the best. Only time will tell.. and great job keeping up with your therapy and counseling! I wish I could carve out some time.. (I have plenty of excellent excuses).
Good luck!!
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Originally Posted by BlueChair
Thank you !!! I think that is exactly what his doctor has been trying to get him to understand about needing to learn to not keep his emotions closed off, be comfortable expressing them because he keeps so much bottled up and always thinks he can handle it all by himself. That is sort of why I phrased it like I did "ask him TO PUSH HIMSELF" out of his comfort zone like you were saying and see what happens over time. I hoped these couple three weeks would make a difference but he still isnt comfortable with it. Good point about the outpatient and insurance and I dont know about that, but that would give him a good reason NOT to go back after the holiday if he is already wanting an out. It gets so complicated and I never thought about that part. I want to encourage him Im so afraid to make him resentful like Im using his love for me to manipulate him.
It gets so complicated and I never thought about that part. I want to encourage him Im so afraid to make him resentful like Im using his love for me to manipulate him.I say just go with your gut and let the chips fall where they may. I know that if at any time anyone tells me that something that happened or didn't happen with my AS was MY fault (including him), I will go ballastic on them. I would gladly hand the problem over to them any day of the week.
Hugs and more hugs, Kari
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I would find it harder to open up to a group of friends than strangers. With strangers, I would not be worried about what they think of me or about ruining a long term relationship or about word getting around about my problems.
Perhaps he is worried that a group of addicts will call him on the B.S. he is telling himself.
In any case, that self-protective shell he has been living in is cutting him off from establishing meaningful connections. How is his communication with you? Is he able to open up?
Perhaps he is worried that a group of addicts will call him on the B.S. he is telling himself.
In any case, that self-protective shell he has been living in is cutting him off from establishing meaningful connections. How is his communication with you? Is he able to open up?
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