ExAH Terminal Cancer--Won't Stop Manipulating
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ExAH Terminal Cancer--Won't Stop Manipulating
I used to post on here quite frequently but haven't for quite a while. So for a quick summary of my situation:
Left my exAH in Jan 2009. His alcoholism had steadily worsened throughout our 9 year relationship, he became increasingly unable to hold a job, and became abusive both emotionally and physically, culminating in beating me up, which is when I finally left him. Met the man who is now my fiance in April 2009. (Both my exAH and my now-fiance were actually men I had known in the 1990's. I reconnected with and married my exAH beginning in 2000, then reconnected with fiance in April 2009). ExAH has been a mess pretty much since I left--in and out of rehabs, psychiatric hospitals, went to Salvation Army twice but left early both times, would string together as much as 4 months of sobriety at a time but always relapsed, became homeless, and THEN was diagnosed with terminal metastatic melanoma in April, while he was in the psych ward yet again as a way to avoid the homeless shelter.
I should also mention he is the father of my child, and when not completely self-destructing on alcohol, can be a very funny, charming, loving person. He has been a worry of mine and a thorn in my side since the day I left. I managed no contact for 6 months but would always find myself still trying to help, although I became much more hands-off before his diagnosis.
Since then, I have stepped up my help. When I say he has NO ONE else that is willing to help him, I mean it. Right before his diagnosis he had burned his family bridges because they had been paying for an extended stay motel for him if he just stayed sober and looked for work, and he managed about 3 weeks before he relapsed and decided to go off on all of them so badly they seem unable or unwilling to forgive him. They will call him maybe once every two months and that's the extent of it. He had one friend who was willing to help him, but he went off on her in a drunken tirade so badly that she has stepped aside too. At this point he is sick enough that he truly does need help, and most of time, he is nice and grateful for the help I give him and happy to spend time with me and our daughter. But about every two weeks, like clockwork, he will get very upset that I am not willing to do MORE, and by MORE, he means leave my fiance and come be his wife again until he dies. He will harangue me on the phone and try to get me to say that I love him more than I love my fiance, and when I won't, he becomes abusive or hangs up and says he's never talking to me again, which lasts until the next time he really needs something.
His latest trick, after I had already made plans with my work to leave early so I could take him to the food stamp office, was to send me an email in the middle of the night with this question, "If a dr. told you if you left your fiance today, I would live a couple of years, but if you don't, I will die by the end of the month, what would you do? The best question I ever asked. If you don't answer, it means you take him and I will NEVER talk to you again."
And look, I get that this is ridiculous. But I also know that he IS sad, scared, afraid and mainly alone, and I really don't want to upset him further. I don't give in to it, and my reply to this will probably be I'm not discussing this, this is ridiculous, but it's still upsetting to wake up to an email like this, and to realize that the manipulation is probably not going to stop until he is gone.
I don't know what advice I seek really; I have already decided that I am not willing to go no contact now, that I will continue to help him. And I already know that I can not engage in these kind of pointless and hurtful debates with him. I am just dreading later today, because he will either tell me he doesn't want my help (and then will still need and want it later, probably on a day less convenient for me), or he will have me come over, we will get halfway to the food stamp place, and he will start in on this and demand an answer, and act like a child when I don't give him the answer he wants.
Left my exAH in Jan 2009. His alcoholism had steadily worsened throughout our 9 year relationship, he became increasingly unable to hold a job, and became abusive both emotionally and physically, culminating in beating me up, which is when I finally left him. Met the man who is now my fiance in April 2009. (Both my exAH and my now-fiance were actually men I had known in the 1990's. I reconnected with and married my exAH beginning in 2000, then reconnected with fiance in April 2009). ExAH has been a mess pretty much since I left--in and out of rehabs, psychiatric hospitals, went to Salvation Army twice but left early both times, would string together as much as 4 months of sobriety at a time but always relapsed, became homeless, and THEN was diagnosed with terminal metastatic melanoma in April, while he was in the psych ward yet again as a way to avoid the homeless shelter.
I should also mention he is the father of my child, and when not completely self-destructing on alcohol, can be a very funny, charming, loving person. He has been a worry of mine and a thorn in my side since the day I left. I managed no contact for 6 months but would always find myself still trying to help, although I became much more hands-off before his diagnosis.
Since then, I have stepped up my help. When I say he has NO ONE else that is willing to help him, I mean it. Right before his diagnosis he had burned his family bridges because they had been paying for an extended stay motel for him if he just stayed sober and looked for work, and he managed about 3 weeks before he relapsed and decided to go off on all of them so badly they seem unable or unwilling to forgive him. They will call him maybe once every two months and that's the extent of it. He had one friend who was willing to help him, but he went off on her in a drunken tirade so badly that she has stepped aside too. At this point he is sick enough that he truly does need help, and most of time, he is nice and grateful for the help I give him and happy to spend time with me and our daughter. But about every two weeks, like clockwork, he will get very upset that I am not willing to do MORE, and by MORE, he means leave my fiance and come be his wife again until he dies. He will harangue me on the phone and try to get me to say that I love him more than I love my fiance, and when I won't, he becomes abusive or hangs up and says he's never talking to me again, which lasts until the next time he really needs something.
His latest trick, after I had already made plans with my work to leave early so I could take him to the food stamp office, was to send me an email in the middle of the night with this question, "If a dr. told you if you left your fiance today, I would live a couple of years, but if you don't, I will die by the end of the month, what would you do? The best question I ever asked. If you don't answer, it means you take him and I will NEVER talk to you again."
And look, I get that this is ridiculous. But I also know that he IS sad, scared, afraid and mainly alone, and I really don't want to upset him further. I don't give in to it, and my reply to this will probably be I'm not discussing this, this is ridiculous, but it's still upsetting to wake up to an email like this, and to realize that the manipulation is probably not going to stop until he is gone.
I don't know what advice I seek really; I have already decided that I am not willing to go no contact now, that I will continue to help him. And I already know that I can not engage in these kind of pointless and hurtful debates with him. I am just dreading later today, because he will either tell me he doesn't want my help (and then will still need and want it later, probably on a day less convenient for me), or he will have me come over, we will get halfway to the food stamp place, and he will start in on this and demand an answer, and act like a child when I don't give him the answer he wants.
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Originally Posted by Mambo Queen 
THEN was diagnosed with terminal metastatic melanoma in April, while he was in the psych ward yet again as a way to avoid the homeless shelter.
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
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Hi Mambo, would it help you if you thought of him as a problem child? They have their tantrums, and try to manipulate us and it can be amusing in a way because it's all so transparent. I guess the alcohol has frozen him emotionally into an eternal adolescent.
I understand why you're helping him, but having made that decision you'll be much happier if you put up some mental barriers, and not take him too seriously. But as with children if their behaviour gets out of bounds, you back away and make it clear that they don't get any response or reward for acting out.
Just my thoughts. Hope you find a way through this while caring for yourself.
I understand why you're helping him, but having made that decision you'll be much happier if you put up some mental barriers, and not take him too seriously. But as with children if their behaviour gets out of bounds, you back away and make it clear that they don't get any response or reward for acting out.
Just my thoughts. Hope you find a way through this while caring for yourself.
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
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Oof. I am so sorry you find yourself here. Good for you for not engaging in the manipulation. Sooner or later, he will have to realize that you are living the answer to his question and accept it, taking what he can get from you, or truly let you go, I think.
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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Yes, that is basically the tactic I try to use, FeelingGreat. After posting this and pondering what the real issue is with me, I think it is that this cancer, and seeing what it is doing to him physically (and it is hideous--he has dealt with a bone tumor that literally ate through his collarbone, a rash that itches and is sore and covers his entire face, neck and scalp, among others--and they won't give him pain pills because of his alcoholism, even though he never abused pills) really brings the guilt out in me where even though intellectually I can see that I am being manipulated, and know that I did the right thing leaving when I did, deep down part of me feels bad that I did leave him and that he has to go through all of this essentially alone. And look, I know that is the codie talking. I guess I just want to hear from some of you fine folks how ridiculous that thinking is, so I can help combat it in my own brain when it rears its ugly head or is triggered by some insane comment of his.
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Hi MamboQueen;
I think compartmentalizing his actions as childish so they don't hurt you is most important thing.
Don't buy into his arguments, step back if he issues ultimatums, and hang up if he is abusive to you verbally. You still need clear boundrys and so does he.
On the other hand, I think is is wonderful and compassionate of you to try to extend him some help. Sounds like you have really grown from all the suffering you endured.
My thoughts are with both of you. Give your fiance a big hug. Sounds like he is a keeper to put up with this.
I think compartmentalizing his actions as childish so they don't hurt you is most important thing.
Don't buy into his arguments, step back if he issues ultimatums, and hang up if he is abusive to you verbally. You still need clear boundrys and so does he.
On the other hand, I think is is wonderful and compassionate of you to try to extend him some help. Sounds like you have really grown from all the suffering you endured.
My thoughts are with both of you. Give your fiance a big hug. Sounds like he is a keeper to put up with this.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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Mambo Queen, you left this man and divorced him for good reasons, necessary reasons, to keep yourself alive and whole. That was a good decision, the best decision you could make for yourself.
Now, if out of the kindness and compassion of your heart, you choose to help him because he has terminal cancer and no one else, that is also your choice.
It does not mean that you in any way have to go back to ANY of the relationship you had with him as his wife. That is gone, over, dead.
You can set your boundaries the same as someone who had not been married to him or had not even known him before would set their boundaries.
If you were a hospice caretaker, what would you do for him, and how would you relate emotionally to him?
I do not think a hospice caretaker would twist their schedule around because he had a tantrum on the way to the food bank. They would probably offer a certain number of services at specified times, and it would be up to him to take them as offered or do without.
You would still be doing far more than anyone else is even considering doing for him. You do not have to "adopt" him as a wayward child. You do not have to engage in any way in his tantrums or bad behavior. Having cancer and trying to guilt-trip you into playing into his alcoholic games is not behavior that you have to accept.
I think your guilt is the issue here. You made good choices when you divorced him. You are entitled to, as all of us are, to a happy life and a future. It is by your good graces that he is getting anything at all from you. You get to decide what you give him on YOUR TERMS. You have no obligation at all to him.
You do not have to change the focus of your life from yourself, your fiancé and your future just because he got cancer and has driven everyone else out of his life and needs someone desperately. That is the consequence of his behavior, and it is his to bear. You are not fulfilling an obligation to him though that is what he would like you to think. You are offering him a gift of caring.
In other words, you have chosen your freedom and you get to keep it.
ShootingStar1
Now, if out of the kindness and compassion of your heart, you choose to help him because he has terminal cancer and no one else, that is also your choice.
It does not mean that you in any way have to go back to ANY of the relationship you had with him as his wife. That is gone, over, dead.
You can set your boundaries the same as someone who had not been married to him or had not even known him before would set their boundaries.
If you were a hospice caretaker, what would you do for him, and how would you relate emotionally to him?
I do not think a hospice caretaker would twist their schedule around because he had a tantrum on the way to the food bank. They would probably offer a certain number of services at specified times, and it would be up to him to take them as offered or do without.
You would still be doing far more than anyone else is even considering doing for him. You do not have to "adopt" him as a wayward child. You do not have to engage in any way in his tantrums or bad behavior. Having cancer and trying to guilt-trip you into playing into his alcoholic games is not behavior that you have to accept.
I think your guilt is the issue here. You made good choices when you divorced him. You are entitled to, as all of us are, to a happy life and a future. It is by your good graces that he is getting anything at all from you. You get to decide what you give him on YOUR TERMS. You have no obligation at all to him.
You do not have to change the focus of your life from yourself, your fiancé and your future just because he got cancer and has driven everyone else out of his life and needs someone desperately. That is the consequence of his behavior, and it is his to bear. You are not fulfilling an obligation to him though that is what he would like you to think. You are offering him a gift of caring.
In other words, you have chosen your freedom and you get to keep it.
ShootingStar1
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"If a dr. told you if you left your fiance today, I would live a couple of years, but if you don't, I will die by the end of the month, what would you do? The best question I ever asked. If you don't answer, it means you take him and I will NEVER talk to you again."
I think Shootingstar has a good point. If you do choose to help him, for God's sake, set boundaries. And don't let him frame your conversations like he's trying to do. You could set the boundary that "I will help you with X, Y, and Z, but if you try to badger me about my relationship with my fiance, I will quit helping you."
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he will either tell me he doesn't want my help (and then will still need and want it later, probably on a day less convenient for me), or he will have me come over, we will get halfway to the food stamp place, and he will start in on this and demand an answer, and act like a child when I don't give him the answer he wants.
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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Originally Posted by BadCompany
He's been dying since he stepped from problem drinking into alcoholism. The cancer changes little more than the timeline.
Originally Posted by choublak
You've got time for that?
Can't get much more simple huh?
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listen to all the great words. Mambo, it sounds to me like you already know the answer, all you're looking for is the back up. well, you got it. Its sad to say, he chose his life, and fortunately you chose a different path. I feel your pain and the wanting to help. Seriously If I wasnt a stubborn s.o.b I would probably run up to my ex now if she gave me the sob story. I know better now, I want a better life. My thoughts are with you, I know how you feel, just take the time to think before you act, let yourself think clearly.
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Thanks everyone for your replies. He is definitely not making up the cancer. I've been to some of his doctors visits with him, and visited him in the hospital when he had the primary tumor removed and then part of his collarbone removed where the tumor had metastisized to the bone. It's just a sad situation all around; even when he's not being a manipulative jerk, it is sad knowing he will die soon, and knowing the physical pain he has to deal with. This weekend also he found out he is losing his Medicaid. I think there is another form of insurance through our state he can work on getting, but this will be another complication, and one I do not wish on him or anyone. A terminal cancer patient should not have to worry about whether or not he or she can get treatment. Anyway, I do know what to do, and can usually step away from the craziness, but I do appreciate the "back up" nonetheless.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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Just a thought:
Is what you are doing for him costing you anything in your relationship with your fiancé? I hope you are prioritizing your new, healthy relationship and your relationship with your child over the help you are giving him.
Guilt is powerful, but I agree think of him as a cranky child and detach. Give your help, but only on your terms, with your boundaries.
Is what you are doing for him costing you anything in your relationship with your fiancé? I hope you are prioritizing your new, healthy relationship and your relationship with your child over the help you are giving him.
Guilt is powerful, but I agree think of him as a cranky child and detach. Give your help, but only on your terms, with your boundaries.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I cannot even imagine what you are going through, I am so sorry. I do know how much pressure there can be to be a caretaker of someone who is terminally ill, little long a terminally ill alcoholic. I hope you are taking time to keep yourself healthy and taking the time out you need to enjoy life. I believe you are wearing angel wings my dear!
Hugs to you!
Hugs to you!
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,163
Have you contacted Hospice ?
Hospice can be a great means of support to him and the extended family. (you)
When a close family member was diagnosed terminal, hospice care was covered at 100 days,(a separate entity from medicare/ medicaid) a physician must sign the document, but perhaps additional help is/may be available, it worth investigating. (Granted this was almost three years ago, and I do not know what has changed in the interim)
Sending you support at the difficult time.
Hospice can be a great means of support to him and the extended family. (you)
When a close family member was diagnosed terminal, hospice care was covered at 100 days,(a separate entity from medicare/ medicaid) a physician must sign the document, but perhaps additional help is/may be available, it worth investigating. (Granted this was almost three years ago, and I do not know what has changed in the interim)
Sending you support at the difficult time.
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: PA
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Originally Posted by marie1960
Have you contacted Hospice ?
Hospice can be a great means of support to him and the extended family. (you)
When a close family member was diagnosed terminal, hospice care was covered at 100 days,(a separate entity from medicare/ medicaid) a physician must sign the document, but perhaps additional help is/may be available, it worth investigating. (Granted this was almost three years ago, and I do not know what has changed in the interim)
Sending you support at the difficult time.
Hospice can be a great means of support to him and the extended family. (you)
When a close family member was diagnosed terminal, hospice care was covered at 100 days,(a separate entity from medicare/ medicaid) a physician must sign the document, but perhaps additional help is/may be available, it worth investigating. (Granted this was almost three years ago, and I do not know what has changed in the interim)
Sending you support at the difficult time.
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