Ruby2

It is now 11:43 p.m. my time, and my 8 year old son is still awake, bumping around in his room and periodically coming into the living room where i am sitting. This happens multiple times a week and it is driving me crazy. I am at my wits end as to what to do. I try to get him into bed at 8:30 each night which I still think is too late for his age but he just will not sleep.

He is ad/hd and is on adderall. It really helps for school but When it wears off his brain just keeps spinning like my brain keeps spinning, all the thoughts, plans, what should I do, what can I do? But in an eight year old brain. He fixates on things and then lays in his room trying to,resolve them when it isn't something that needs immediate attention.

I am trying to figure out how to cope as a virtually single parent since AH is almost never home and if home isn't helpful other than to yell "go to bed." Which isn't helpful at all.

It is unhelpful that my AH doesn't see the kids except in a tiny ten minute window between the time that he comes home at 8:00 p.m. and 8:30 when he flies out the door. Ten minutes because when he is here he is not engaged but sits in our bedroom before leaving while I am trying to get children into bed. My daughter just goes to bed. No issues usually.

Guess I am venting. I told son that tomorrow when we get home no t.v., No computer, no video games. It is going to be my mother's bedtime prescription of bath, book, bed after dinner. I love my mother and ahe is usually right.

Any suggestions appreciated. I am so desperate tonight to get son sleeping that I had a sudden flash of giving him a quarter of one of my Valium. Do not worry...I would never do that. He has a med check for the adderall in two weeks. I will talk to the doctor. Meanwhile tonight daddy promised him all sorts of stuff for this weekend which I doubt will happen...it is payday on Friday. And AH ran out the door earlier after promising quack that he wouldn't do so. Now my brain is spinning. Argh

Upsetnneedhelp

Talk to his doctor. Adderal is a very strong drug and maybe he needs an adjustment. I've heard that they even sell it on the street. I take valium also and find it helpful dealing with extreme stress. The bath, book, relax suggestions seem good.

Ruby2

Thanks upsetnneed,

He has had several adjustments on the adderall. I unfortunately know they sell it on the streets since AH will also take son's meds which is why I hide them now with the rest of my stuff.

The doctor suggested some behavior mods which I need to work on. It has been hard because I am dealing with AH coming in and out of the house around bedtime and over exciting kids at bed time while he is still sober but in that hyper mood before he drinks so we can all sense the hightened anxiety. i think my son senses it more. And I am adjusting to being a single working mom even still being married and cohabiting with AH. The Valium is mine and thank goodness he hasn't found that either. And glad I don't use it every day. Deep breathing. Deep breathing.

Thanks. Son finally finally asleep. Me, not so much.

coraltint

My kids act up when they can feel that my wife & I are at odds. Your son may well be more stressed because on some level he knows things aren't right with you and his dad....that can squeeze out in some strange & unexpected ways. Probably worth a mention to his Dr. You don't have to be specific about what the issues are....

Hopeworks

Adderall is a very strong drug and is an overmedicated drug. In France they don't even hardly prescribe it and treat ADHD completely differently. I would research that as your son my need another direction in dealing with his ADHD.

There are a lot of helpful articles on sleep online and teaching your son how to prepare his body for sleep is a great idea. There are over the counter sleep aids that have helped me (I am ADD). Melatonin is produced in our body when sunlight is diminished and in the mornings when the sun comes up the body stops producing it. It helps me but talk to your doctor about when it should be taken if at all by a child.

Valerian can also be helpful but again I don't know about children taking it.

There are sleep specialists that can check your son out and try to figure out what is going on and that might be well worth it. Kids need their deep rem sleep!

Stress is a huge and A dad needs to get it together or maybe he needs to be out of the picture. My sons dad was also a huge stressor for my son when he was young and had anxiety attacks worrying over his father and his addiction and also had sleep problems. I ended up leaving his father and getting him counseling. Today he is an adult and has a very healthy detached relationship with his loser dad... almost role reversal with my son being the father figure...how pathetic.

So... there are ways you can minimalize the impact of disruptive A dad, ADD and just the stress of growing up for your son.

Good luck...

jessicajoe

Hi Ruby.
Just my very humble opinion
At eight he is probably too young to journal but could you get him a dictaphone/ cassette recorder whatever and teach him how to use it. Tell him once something is out of his head and recorded he doesn't need to think about it anymore then let him use it even in bed if he is quiet and calm with it. You could even have a deal where if he stayed in bed you would agree a set time every day where you would play it back together and discuss what was on it.
I absolutely agree with your Mom about the quiet calm bedtime routine. I also remember some research about having to be bored to fall asleep. Its difficult to be bored when your head is full of "stuff" than needs thinking about. I think for some ADHD kids they have to be taught strategies for how to "empty" their heads and then think of boring things (like counting backwards from 100 or thinking of food for every letter of the alphabet or whatever)
I hope it gets better for you.

Katchie

I have used Natural Calm magnesium powder in warm water for years with my sons & it always makes them sleepy. Our bodies, young and old, could always use more of the mineral. My boys like the raspberry flavor. It is a sweet tart taste. I put 1-2 teaspoons in a coffee mug and pour very warm water over it; it fizzes up so you'd want to pour very slow or it will over flow the mug. Also, a nice cup of camomile and honey could be helpful.
Anyway, I've had success with it in my home. Hope if you try it, it works for you, too.

FireSprite

Hey Ruby, how frustrating for both of you. DS must be exhausted after a late night like that with school the next day. Definitely a good idea to get the med check, it's so easy for these things to get out of line.

You might also ask your Dr. about using melatonin for him to help kick-start his sleep cycles. It is safe in smaller doses for children & it really, really helps DD to settle down when her brain is in overdrive at bedtime. I get her chewable tablets at the Dollar Tree that she breaks in half so she gets 16 doses/$1.

She doesn't take it every night - it cycles depending on how far out of balance she is in terms of stress at home/at school/being off normal routine/ bad diet/ etc. I hope you find something that works!

Ruby2

Thanks all for your suggestions. The doctor did okay small doses of melatonin so I am going to give that a shot. I am also going to really work hard on consistency at bedtime with him. That sort of slid by the wayside because I've been dealing with AH. Son is far more important. So I will work at it.

lizatola

We've used Natural Calm, too, when ds went through trouble sleeping when he was 10 or so. I found it was just a phase for him and I finally started allowing him to watch TV or read. He was getting anxious because I was getting anxious that he wasn't asleep at the time I wanted him to be and that just exacerbated the problem. Once I relaxed and took the pressure off of the 'time' he was still awake, the problem started to back off and he started falling asleep better.

He's 15 now and he is independent enough now to do his own thing if he can't sleep and doesn't bother me about it unless he's sick. For us, I really had to control my own anxiety and tone down my sleepy mom attack mode when he'd get whiny about not being able to fall asleep and some days were so much harder than others, LOL!

Oh, we also tried melatonin but found that if I gave him too much, he was VERY groggy in the AM and he didn't like that feeling. If you use it, try the smallest dose possible and ask your doctor or nutrition store supplement advisor about dosages for kids.

NWGRITS

I was going to recommend melatonin. We give it to my stepson, who has ADD, to help him sleep. Although...his mother is the one who had him dx and drugged, and imho it's a bogus dx in his case. When they're here (I have a stepdaughter, too, which gives us five kids), we have no ADD problems. No, I don't give K his Concerta. I give them love and attention (which they don't receive at home. Don't get me started on their mother, or the stepdad), and they are brilliant, funny, wonderful children. Anyway, I got off track. I second the suggestion to look into other methods of treating his ADHD without or in combination with medication (and even try to wean off the meds eventually). I swear by a real food diet for treating so many conditions, but that is a purely individual choice. I hope things improve soon. I grew up in am A home, and there's rarely ever a time when you're comfortable or free of anxiety, even if you don't recognize what it is. (((Hugs)))

Ruby2

I will look for the Natural Calm. HEalth food store or Walgreens?

"try the smallest dose possible and ask your doctor or nutrition store supplement advisor about dosages for kids." Doctor gave me the dosage for son the last time we saw him. He actually suggested more than what I would have given him. He did caution to not use it every night, only on those bad nights like last night. I've tried warm milk, counting backwards, etc. We will see if bath book bed works for us tonight, combined with no television or computer stimulus.

lillamy

Hey Ruby,

My daughter isn't ADD or on Adderall, but on a metric ton of other medications, with side effects that affect her sleeping patterns. I know how it can drive you nuts and I can imagine that with an 8-year-old it's even worse -- my teen at least is fine with being awake in her room watching a movie without waking me up...

We've had to play around with the timing of her medications -- I'm just mentioning that in case it's something you could try? There was this one medication I was told to give her at bedtime -- well, that didn't work because she was dead to the world when I tried to wake her up 9 hours later. So I started giving it to her 30 minutes earlier until we found the optimal time that made it possible for her to wake up in the mornings.

Another medication she was on was supposed to make her sort of hyper and alert as a side effect, so I was told to give that to her in the mornings. That didn't work for some reason -- but she could take it at night, go to sleep, and wake up perky.

Our doc was very helpful with letting us know how playing around with timing of meds could help, and also said that it's so darn individual how you react to medications.

I hope you find something that works.

Mango blast

Good luck! You're getting me to think about our son's bedtime also. It's been pretty good lately, but not great. We really need to do the no tv/pc stimulus more. DS used to not be able to sleep at all if he had something pressing on his mind. It may have been something very inconsequential, but it was huge to him. That's great that melatonin has been okayed for when you need it!

wolfpackfan45

I'm a teacher (10 year olds) , plus I have a 22 year old son who has suffered from sleep issues for years. My advice is that your first check with your Dr. His medication dose may need to be adjusted, or they may want to change to a different medication. They might advise you to change the dosage times. I also don't advise you to use any natural remedies until you check with his Dr. first, as it may interact with the medication he is already on. My son isn't on ADHD meds, and we found that Melatonin has helped him. The sublingual kind that melts under the tongue works faster, but I don't advise it without checking with the Dr. first. Also, turn off all electronics ( including tv and radio) at least an hour before bedtime. No caffeine or sugar in the PM. Make sure he has a set bedtime each night, and make him get in his bed a half an hour before you want him to go to sleep. Let him read in his bed if he wants. Sometimes this helps them to fall off to sleep. LOL! It may take him several nights to get his sleep pattern set.

jaynie04

Hi Ruby, I have sleep issues as well as recently diagnosed ADHD. My doctor is very holistic and mentioned recently the important of light in a room when you are trying to sleep.

Apparently blue light, the type an alarm clock or even a small light from a cable box, has been proven to be very disruptive to sleep. Computer screens also cause a very stimulating effect on the brain, most docs recommend a 2 hour window without use before bed.
Blocking Blue Light Helps Sleep | Dr. Michael J. Breus

RhodeIsland

Does he take a nap at any point during the day?

ADHD doesn't effect sleep cycle. I had this conversation with my neurologist. He's getting his sleep, the 8 hours he needs a day. the question is where.

<----ADHD dx 6/8/91

Ellvk

Hi there...

My DD (9) has had sleep problems forever. We have tried many things, mostly to calm her anxiety. We used Melatonin from ages 3-7 with great success for falling asleep, not so much for staying asleep. Now we occasionally use Benadryl. What works the absolute best is for me to lay with her. We both read, then I turn off the light and stay as she falls asleep. She needs the closeness. I never thought (when I was such a GREAT parent - before I actually WAS one) that I would be doing this, but we are all better off for it. She and I need that time to unwind together.... and my AH snores SO LOUDLY that I can't fall asleep with him anyway.

I'm sure she'll kick me out before too many more years pass, or I'll be headed to college with her.

Take care.... and if you can, I agree that it's good to take the focus OFF your AH and put it ONTO DS (and yourself)

Ell

Thumper

I hope the melatonin and other strategies help. Give it some time before you give up on them. It takes awhile to adjust sleep habits/patterns. In my experience with my kids the things that were the most helpful...

1) continue to keep his doctor updated so that any medication (prescribed or over the counter) concerns and/or strategies can be addressed.

2) The consistent night time routine is huge. Not so much at specific times (I used to be really nutty about doing it by the clock which actually made things worse) but the flow of the last two hours of the night.

3) No screens the last two hours of the night (TV, computer, video games). I started with bath, games, snacks, teeth, bedtime stories. At that age I kind of had to fill the time, some structure was needed or wildness ensued. I always read at the end of the night. Sometimes for a long time.

Some things you might consider...

1) 8:30 might be to early. He isn't going to sleep anyway so perhaps start later and once things even out you can move it up by 10 minutes every couple nights until you have it where he seems to be getting enough sleep. If my one son goes to bed to early he has a really hard time. He winds up, not down. There is a little window in there. To late and tired and he's also wired.

Allow him to get up out of bed to do specific activities and then go back to bed. Bathroom, drink, brainstorm some stuff - physical stuff not mental stuff. Do it, go back to bed. No chit chat, no complaining, no negotiation - do the thing, go back to bed. This works for me. When I lay in bed with mind racing I get very very antsy. I might get up and clean out the fridge, then go right back to bed, and at least half the time that has gotten that antsy feeling to subside enough that I can lay still and sleep. I'm not even adhd, lol.

Did he have these sleep problems before the adderrall?

Ruby2

Thanks everyone. I see I am not alone with this. Better last night and I will keep up with the book, bath, bed and limited electronics. Son has to do 15 minutes of online math for homework every night.

He did have some sleep issues before ADD diagnosis. Stopped napping around age 3 and never, ever naps unless he is really sick with a cold.

He sees his med doctor every month for check ups and we discussed dosage of the meds last time and decided to keep it as is. Son definitely benefits from the meds. Prior to the meds he was out of control antsy everywhere he went. Running around, getting up an down,,rolling around on the floor, talking too much and too loudly. Msensitive to really loud noises and too much of other peoples talking. More than "typical" rowdy boy behavior.

I have to meet with his teacher so we can discuss other behavior modification techniques for him to practice. He is getting better. The sleep thing happens when he has stuff he wants to plan or do and he lays up or gets up to work on it. I think we have all tossed and turned at some point for the same reasons. The lists in our heads of tasks to be done. Only this is magnified.

It will get better. I just need to be patient, consistent and know that this too will pass.