To quit AA or not to quit?
p***enger
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 19,036
To quit AA or not to quit?
I pose this question seeking advice and honest guidance, which is what I've mostly found on SR.
Just a bit of background: I've been sober 10.5 months, in AA since day 5. I have a sponsor and having been working the steps to the best of my ability, although I'm the first to admit that I'm doing step 4 in fits & starts, reluctantly. I went to 90 meetings in 90 days early on, now average about 4 a week. I do service at my home group. I'm an atheist, but in my city there are many meetings that don't push the religious aspect of the program very hard.
My problem is that while I recognize that AA has helped me get and stay sober so far, it's at the point where my resistance to the 12 steps is making it hard for me to relate to other alcoholics in the rooms or learn from their experiences. I'm really getting to dislike the words "program", "steps", "literature" -- well, you may know what I mean. I'm trying to be measured in my language about this, but it sets my teeth on edge.
I think I have 3 options:
Is option #2 even possible? Has anyone tried this and stayed sober? I feel a lot of gratitude to the people in AA, but I think something isn't right. It seems like lately the bad experiences surpass the good
Just a bit of background: I've been sober 10.5 months, in AA since day 5. I have a sponsor and having been working the steps to the best of my ability, although I'm the first to admit that I'm doing step 4 in fits & starts, reluctantly. I went to 90 meetings in 90 days early on, now average about 4 a week. I do service at my home group. I'm an atheist, but in my city there are many meetings that don't push the religious aspect of the program very hard.
My problem is that while I recognize that AA has helped me get and stay sober so far, it's at the point where my resistance to the 12 steps is making it hard for me to relate to other alcoholics in the rooms or learn from their experiences. I'm really getting to dislike the words "program", "steps", "literature" -- well, you may know what I mean. I'm trying to be measured in my language about this, but it sets my teeth on edge.
I think I have 3 options:
- surrender to the program and the steps and just hope that I dislike it all less, in time;
- continue to attend meetings regularly but talk to my sponsor & tell her I'm stopping the steps and am not doing the "program";
- quit the whole thing altogether.
Is option #2 even possible? Has anyone tried this and stayed sober? I feel a lot of gratitude to the people in AA, but I think something isn't right. It seems like lately the bad experiences surpass the good
Its_me_jen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Salina, Ks
Posts: 8,547
I can relate to what you're saying, being annoyed by the lingo. I still have my days.
What I did was option 1. I had run out of ideas and I figured the only way I could know if AA would work for me was to work all the steps. All of them, even the ones I REALLY didn't want to.
I have to say that my 5th step was the most rewarding. I felt like a weight was lifted off my shoulders. I really did.
I've seen many people stop at step 4 because of the fear. Many of them end up back out. I'm not telling you that as an absolute but just sharing my experience.
I think if the only thing bothering you is the lingo, quitting the steps is pretty extreme. You don't have to use the lingo. In fact, it could help a new comer that feels annoyed by it too.
Good luck to you!!
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What I did was option 1. I had run out of ideas and I figured the only way I could know if AA would work for me was to work all the steps. All of them, even the ones I REALLY didn't want to.
I have to say that my 5th step was the most rewarding. I felt like a weight was lifted off my shoulders. I really did.
I've seen many people stop at step 4 because of the fear. Many of them end up back out. I'm not telling you that as an absolute but just sharing my experience.
I think if the only thing bothering you is the lingo, quitting the steps is pretty extreme. You don't have to use the lingo. In fact, it could help a new comer that feels annoyed by it too.
Good luck to you!!
Sent from my iPhone using SoberRecovery
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 1,737
The steps are a suggested program of recovery. You are free to pursue them or not, although choosing not to may prompt your sponsor to decide to move on as a result.
If you find that you can maintain a happy and productive sober life without the steps, more power to you. But pay attention over time, and if you feel that you are sliding - recognize it and adjust accordingly. The first step is all about honesty, and in my experience it is internal dishonesty that is most dangerous to our well being, and the root of dishonesty to others.
Above all else, it sounds that at least some of what you are currently doing is not serving you. It would be worth looking at that - you may find that your discomfort with step 4 & "the program" in general are symptoms, not the disease.
If you find that you can maintain a happy and productive sober life without the steps, more power to you. But pay attention over time, and if you feel that you are sliding - recognize it and adjust accordingly. The first step is all about honesty, and in my experience it is internal dishonesty that is most dangerous to our well being, and the root of dishonesty to others.
Above all else, it sounds that at least some of what you are currently doing is not serving you. It would be worth looking at that - you may find that your discomfort with step 4 & "the program" in general are symptoms, not the disease.
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 480
Originally Posted by courage2 
I pose this question seeking advice and honest guidance, which is what I've mostly found on SR.
Just a bit of background: I've been sober 10.5 months, in AA since day 5. I have a sponsor and having been working the steps to the best of my ability, although I'm the first to admit that I'm doing step 4 in fits & starts, reluctantly. I went to 90 meetings in 90 days early on, now average about 4 a week. I do service at my home group. I'm an atheist, but in my city there are many meetings that don't push the religious aspect of the program very hard.
My problem is that while I recognize that AA has helped me get and stay sober so far, it's at the point where my resistance to the 12 steps is making it hard for me to relate to other alcoholics in the rooms or learn from their experiences. I'm really getting to dislike the words "program", "steps", "literature" -- well, you may know what I mean. I'm trying to be measured in my language about this, but it sets my teeth on edge.
I think I have 3 options:
Is option #2 even possible? Has anyone tried this and stayed sober? I feel a lot of gratitude to the people in AA, but I think something isn't right. It seems like lately the bad experiences surpass the good
Just a bit of background: I've been sober 10.5 months, in AA since day 5. I have a sponsor and having been working the steps to the best of my ability, although I'm the first to admit that I'm doing step 4 in fits & starts, reluctantly. I went to 90 meetings in 90 days early on, now average about 4 a week. I do service at my home group. I'm an atheist, but in my city there are many meetings that don't push the religious aspect of the program very hard.
My problem is that while I recognize that AA has helped me get and stay sober so far, it's at the point where my resistance to the 12 steps is making it hard for me to relate to other alcoholics in the rooms or learn from their experiences. I'm really getting to dislike the words "program", "steps", "literature" -- well, you may know what I mean. I'm trying to be measured in my language about this, but it sets my teeth on edge.
I think I have 3 options:
- surrender to the program and the steps and just hope that I dislike it all less, in time;
- continue to attend meetings regularly but talk to my sponsor & tell her I'm stopping the steps and am not doing the "program";
- quit the whole thing altogether.
Is option #2 even possible? Has anyone tried this and stayed sober? I feel a lot of gratitude to the people in AA, but I think something isn't right. It seems like lately the bad experiences surpass the good
Anything is possible.
Do what feels right to YOU. If you want option 2 then go for it, option 3? Awesome. More power to you. I wouldn't FORCE something though. Just because you do not complete the steps, does not mean you cannot have a long, happy and sober life.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
I left the program and disagree with many things about how the program is done.
I think it would be better if the program encouraged open honest discussion of member's problems. The stress of being strong and hopeful and putting a good face on everything is tough.
However, you say that the program helped you stay sober.If it had done that for me, I would still be in it. Nothing is perfect in life. So if AA is helping you, why not stick with it?
I think after awhile a certain exhaustion hits--you have at this point heard so many stories and so much jargon that it has become meaningless. But that is the part of the deal...just like how some Thanksgivings are a chore then at some point you discover the meaning again. At first AA was all discoveries...now it is part of a routine and you are afraid that there will be no more discoveries. I suspect everyone has gone through this, though the program discourages them from admitting it. But it is a normal stage of any practice to lose the meaning of it for awhile. But is it just as normal to regain the meaning later.
So why not mix it up and go to meetings where there are not so many people you know. Or go to fewer meetings and fill the time with other activities like classes, community organizations, religious groups, or volunteering. The point of recovery is to reconnect you to life, not to be a place to hide. If AA takes up the majority of your free time, you do not have balance. AA is like carrots. Carrots are good for you but you have to eat other foods as well or you will be malnourished.
I bet that finding community outside the rooms will make your time in the rooms more meaningful again.
And if it works for you, don't throw it away. Even Mother Teresa had what she called "dry spells."
I think it would be better if the program encouraged open honest discussion of member's problems. The stress of being strong and hopeful and putting a good face on everything is tough.
However, you say that the program helped you stay sober.If it had done that for me, I would still be in it. Nothing is perfect in life. So if AA is helping you, why not stick with it?
I think after awhile a certain exhaustion hits--you have at this point heard so many stories and so much jargon that it has become meaningless. But that is the part of the deal...just like how some Thanksgivings are a chore then at some point you discover the meaning again. At first AA was all discoveries...now it is part of a routine and you are afraid that there will be no more discoveries. I suspect everyone has gone through this, though the program discourages them from admitting it. But it is a normal stage of any practice to lose the meaning of it for awhile. But is it just as normal to regain the meaning later.
So why not mix it up and go to meetings where there are not so many people you know. Or go to fewer meetings and fill the time with other activities like classes, community organizations, religious groups, or volunteering. The point of recovery is to reconnect you to life, not to be a place to hide. If AA takes up the majority of your free time, you do not have balance. AA is like carrots. Carrots are good for you but you have to eat other foods as well or you will be malnourished.
I bet that finding community outside the rooms will make your time in the rooms more meaningful again.
And if it works for you, don't throw it away. Even Mother Teresa had what she called "dry spells."
Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 19
I would try to focus on maintaining honesty with yourself no matter what you decide. You really cannot make a "wrong" decision that way.
I have found that I had spent a lot of time in AA rooms trying to differentiate myself from those in the meetings rather than looking for the similarities. I personally always have choose to do things my own way and had trouble blindly following directions from many that had success before me.
I had always left before the miracle. I had just never quite had enough to provoke complete surrender.
For me, it wasn't until I abandoned my entire way of thinking that I made any progress at all. I still struggle daily with that.
I have found that I had spent a lot of time in AA rooms trying to differentiate myself from those in the meetings rather than looking for the similarities. I personally always have choose to do things my own way and had trouble blindly following directions from many that had success before me.
I had always left before the miracle. I had just never quite had enough to provoke complete surrender.
For me, it wasn't until I abandoned my entire way of thinking that I made any progress at all. I still struggle daily with that.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South East England
Posts: 8,009
I could totally relate to your post. I'm not one who has slipped easily into the whole AA thing, I've questioned every step as I've moved through it and must generally have been a sponsors nightmare.
I have to say step 4 was the toughest. I took far too long to knuckle down to this one. I was resentful and I kicked against it, but doing step 5 was the single most profound experience I've had so far in sobriety. I still remember driving to work the next morning with such a sense of peace and calm, I will never forget it.
I've incorporated a lot of different things into my sobriety now. I'm in counselling and I meditate every day.
There have been many times when I've started to wander away from AA. I acknowledge there are various ways to stay sober, AA being only one of them. Some of the meetings I go to don't suit me, and I've moved about quite a bit. I've not always felt comfortable sharing or socialising outside the rooms. But for me, working the steps has made a significant difference to me. I'm now going through them a second time, and it is continuing to enrich my life.
Our journeys are all different but I would ask what you've got to lose by continuing to work the steps through to the end. Step 4 is uncomfortable, that's for sure. But it does get better.
Just my experience anyway. Best wishes to you x
I have to say step 4 was the toughest. I took far too long to knuckle down to this one. I was resentful and I kicked against it, but doing step 5 was the single most profound experience I've had so far in sobriety. I still remember driving to work the next morning with such a sense of peace and calm, I will never forget it.
I've incorporated a lot of different things into my sobriety now. I'm in counselling and I meditate every day.
There have been many times when I've started to wander away from AA. I acknowledge there are various ways to stay sober, AA being only one of them. Some of the meetings I go to don't suit me, and I've moved about quite a bit. I've not always felt comfortable sharing or socialising outside the rooms. But for me, working the steps has made a significant difference to me. I'm now going through them a second time, and it is continuing to enrich my life.
Our journeys are all different but I would ask what you've got to lose by continuing to work the steps through to the end. Step 4 is uncomfortable, that's for sure. But it does get better.
Just my experience anyway. Best wishes to you x
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
MIamifella wrote in part: "AA is like carrots. Carrots are good for you but you have to eat other foods as well or you will be malnourished."
I've also found that AA is like onions, that is that, as with peeling an onion, there are layers of meaning embedded in the steps, the traditions, and the experience of its members. With lengthening years of sobriety I found that my need to attend weekly meetings diminished and this did not make me uncomfortable or cause me to relapse. It has been a comfort to me to know that AA is always available if I should ever experience renewed cravings or have a period of strain due to things happening, changes, in my personal life.
In summary then, all I can do is speak of my own experience and say that I have "grown away" from AA gradually over the years (25 now- today is my 25th anniversary) but that I feel very strongly that it it always going to be there if I need it. In a way I continue to work the steps by trying to help others, hearing of their experiences and recalling my own, keeping fresh the memory of what it was like in former days and reminding myself of the terrible consequences which would likely follow if I ever picked up a drink again.
W.
I've also found that AA is like onions, that is that, as with peeling an onion, there are layers of meaning embedded in the steps, the traditions, and the experience of its members. With lengthening years of sobriety I found that my need to attend weekly meetings diminished and this did not make me uncomfortable or cause me to relapse. It has been a comfort to me to know that AA is always available if I should ever experience renewed cravings or have a period of strain due to things happening, changes, in my personal life.
In summary then, all I can do is speak of my own experience and say that I have "grown away" from AA gradually over the years (25 now- today is my 25th anniversary) but that I feel very strongly that it it always going to be there if I need it. In a way I continue to work the steps by trying to help others, hearing of their experiences and recalling my own, keeping fresh the memory of what it was like in former days and reminding myself of the terrible consequences which would likely follow if I ever picked up a drink again.
W.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bklyn. NY
Posts: 1,859
I've drifted away from AA a handful of times when my life got real busy. Took me a long time to realize that my life is much more full and happy when I'm attending meetings than when I'm not.
I did accept the 12 steps as my recovery program, and they've kept me sober for 29 years. I find however that I'm much more happy and content when I have the community of AA to share my life with. For me, that's become 1 to 3 meetings a week. Not a whole lot, especially considering what I get in return. With traveling that's 2 to 5 hours of my time a week. Time I otherwise might be playing a video game, typing here
, or watching TV. Less of the former, more of the latter makes my life a lot more fulfilling.
I did accept the 12 steps as my recovery program, and they've kept me sober for 29 years. I find however that I'm much more happy and content when I have the community of AA to share my life with. For me, that's become 1 to 3 meetings a week. Not a whole lot, especially considering what I get in return. With traveling that's 2 to 5 hours of my time a week. Time I otherwise might be playing a video game, typing here
, or watching TV. Less of the former, more of the latter makes my life a lot more fulfilling.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,359
Courage2 - have you considered that you might not be on step 4? Not every sponsor is he right sponsor and each sponsor has a different opinion of how they take us through the book. For me I started writing out my inventories a month ago but it was just in the couple weeks that finally surrendered and gave up fitting who I am. Since this time I have let go and found a peace that is almost indescribable.
I was raised catholic and kicked out of CCD in the 3rd grade. I have maybe been back to a church a dozen times since then for special occasions. I believe in God but am not religious. My Higher Power is completely different than this idea or concept. I am not sure if this helps but for me the feeling of an energy or Karma is my higher power. I know you are an atheist so my share is not to push my beliefs on you but I felt we might be similar and I wrestled with some of hints you are going through and that was the experience I had.
BTW my moment/miracle did not come through AA but after a therapy session and realizing everything I have ever done and do has addictive characteristics so I just gave up fighting who I was...I guess it was overwhelming. This made everything else click from a steps perspective.
There will always be pros and cons to AA for me. Good meetings and bad meetings. But being able to find a meeting relatively easy and knowing anywhere int he World when your all in what you will get relatively speaking, has its advantages.
Lastly, I go to keep myself grounded. Otherwise I have a tendency to think I am better than it.
I was raised catholic and kicked out of CCD in the 3rd grade. I have maybe been back to a church a dozen times since then for special occasions. I believe in God but am not religious. My Higher Power is completely different than this idea or concept. I am not sure if this helps but for me the feeling of an energy or Karma is my higher power. I know you are an atheist so my share is not to push my beliefs on you but I felt we might be similar and I wrestled with some of hints you are going through and that was the experience I had.
BTW my moment/miracle did not come through AA but after a therapy session and realizing everything I have ever done and do has addictive characteristics so I just gave up fighting who I was...I guess it was overwhelming. This made everything else click from a steps perspective.
There will always be pros and cons to AA for me. Good meetings and bad meetings. But being able to find a meeting relatively easy and knowing anywhere int he World when your all in what you will get relatively speaking, has its advantages.
Lastly, I go to keep myself grounded. Otherwise I have a tendency to think I am better than it.
A Day at a Time
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Posts: 6,435
Surrender just means joining the winning side. When I gave up fighting everything and everybody things started to get better. if I had cancer and the doctors course of treatment had brought me into complete remission for 10.5 months I do not think I would try a different doctor and a new course treatment.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: C.C. Ma.
Posts: 3,697
Hi. I understand the dilemma and can't offer much of a suggestion except my own experiences. I know that alcohol is cunning, baffling and cunning so at moments of wondering I need to look at those insanities for me. I realized years ago that sitting and watching TV or other non meetings I wasn't hearing any pearls I needed for that time period. After many sober years I concentrate on steps 1,4, 10 and 11, not saying the rest are ignored and I still go to 3-5 meetings a week. I know some that go to perhaps 1 a week and their feet are squarely on the ground so after awhile it's an individual choice. Perhaps a couple different meetings might settle things.
BE WELL
BE WELL
Recovering ostrich
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida
Posts: 2,551
Hi courage! You know how I feel about it, I think, but here goes.
I have a tough time with the lingo... A really tough time. And the sayings. Oy vey, the sayings. And the HP thing. But I can see that what they have said and the promises and the "living a life beyond my wildest dreams," is all true. Because sobriety is a mindset and the steps are taking me there. I get tired of going to meetings especially with my work schedule. I tried on my own for years to not only stop drinking, but to work through all of this baggage and crap and couldn't do what this program has given me in almost 11 months.
No matter what you decide, I hope you keep up what you've done and continue to get healthy for you.
I have a tough time with the lingo... A really tough time. And the sayings. Oy vey, the sayings. And the HP thing. But I can see that what they have said and the promises and the "living a life beyond my wildest dreams," is all true. Because sobriety is a mindset and the steps are taking me there. I get tired of going to meetings especially with my work schedule. I tried on my own for years to not only stop drinking, but to work through all of this baggage and crap and couldn't do what this program has given me in almost 11 months.
No matter what you decide, I hope you keep up what you've done and continue to get healthy for you.
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,097
Hi courage
As you know,I'm not in AA so maybe not the best person to answer the question. I think it's great you're asking these questions and considering your position. Your apparent uncomfortableness (sp) with this does need addressing imo. I would be concerned at this stage if I was so uncomfortable with the program I was using,whatever that may be.
I have no answers, maybe more questions looking at it from another angle. I know you have a great deal of uncertainty and concern.
- Has going to AA stopped you drinking or have you stopped you drinking
- Do you think if you stop going to AA you will start drinking again?
- Can you maybe look at adding something to your recovery schedule,maybe something with a different perspective.As you know I'm an advocate of WFS- some great reading really resonates with me. They do have meetings in NYC-it may just help.
--I like wpainter's post- reminds me of the phrase,take what you need and leave the rest.
- Ultimately, you must do what is best for you,deep down in your heart.
- I may be way off beam but it seems as though you want to stop AA but have perhaps been told/ingrained into you that if you stop going you WILL relapse.This is not necessarily the case. I'm not anti AA and truly hope it doesn't come across that way but it is not the only way. I do not believe that any method that makes you feel so uncomfortable all of the time,so many months into sobriety, is sustainable in the long term
- Maybe look at some other means of support, keep attending meetings too if that's what you want but above all be true to what YOU want
As you know,I'm not in AA so maybe not the best person to answer the question. I think it's great you're asking these questions and considering your position. Your apparent uncomfortableness (sp) with this does need addressing imo. I would be concerned at this stage if I was so uncomfortable with the program I was using,whatever that may be.
I have no answers, maybe more questions looking at it from another angle. I know you have a great deal of uncertainty and concern.
- Has going to AA stopped you drinking or have you stopped you drinking
- Do you think if you stop going to AA you will start drinking again?
- Can you maybe look at adding something to your recovery schedule,maybe something with a different perspective.As you know I'm an advocate of WFS- some great reading really resonates with me. They do have meetings in NYC-it may just help.
--I like wpainter's post- reminds me of the phrase,take what you need and leave the rest.
- Ultimately, you must do what is best for you,deep down in your heart.
- I may be way off beam but it seems as though you want to stop AA but have perhaps been told/ingrained into you that if you stop going you WILL relapse.This is not necessarily the case. I'm not anti AA and truly hope it doesn't come across that way but it is not the only way. I do not believe that any method that makes you feel so uncomfortable all of the time,so many months into sobriety, is sustainable in the long term
- Maybe look at some other means of support, keep attending meetings too if that's what you want but above all be true to what YOU want
Grateful to be free
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,680
I have gotten and stayed sober using the 12 Steps. I have tried AA a few times and I do find the language etc hard for me to "interpret". So I have done the steps in other 12 step fellowships. So I do know where you are coming from.
Because of where you said you are in the steps, and the types of things that are annoying you, I get the sense that it's not the steps that are the issue, it's the stall.
Mired in 4 is a horrible place to be. It makes sense you are edgy, feeling like it's all BS, that you don't belong. I truly would encourage you to quit stalling, move forward, do all the steps. That did more for me than any amount of reading or therapy ever did as far as addressing my addictions.
The steps are pretty much age old wisdom put into a simple, straightforward format. Letting the lingo hold us back isn't necessary.
A lot of people get hung up on 4 and walk away saying it's not for them. It IS hard to relate to people who have found relief through the steps when you haven't worked them and found the same relief. Many many things I heard other people say made no sense to me until I had done the steps, or at least gotten past 5. Now it makes sense to me when people say "don't leave 5 minutes before the miracle happens!"
Because of where you said you are in the steps, and the types of things that are annoying you, I get the sense that it's not the steps that are the issue, it's the stall.
Mired in 4 is a horrible place to be. It makes sense you are edgy, feeling like it's all BS, that you don't belong. I truly would encourage you to quit stalling, move forward, do all the steps. That did more for me than any amount of reading or therapy ever did as far as addressing my addictions.
The steps are pretty much age old wisdom put into a simple, straightforward format. Letting the lingo hold us back isn't necessary.
A lot of people get hung up on 4 and walk away saying it's not for them. It IS hard to relate to people who have found relief through the steps when you haven't worked them and found the same relief. Many many things I heard other people say made no sense to me until I had done the steps, or at least gotten past 5. Now it makes sense to me when people say "don't leave 5 minutes before the miracle happens!"
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: De
Posts: 1,333
12 step programs work by working the 12 steps. I accepted that going to any lengths meant that I would have to do things I didn't want to do, like write a fearless and thorough moral inventory. Admit to my self, another person, and whatever concept of a Higher Power the exact nature of my wrongs. Six and Seven didn't seem to bad, but 8 and 9 scared the living crap out of me.
But, since my Higher Power was that good olde Group, Of Drunks, I did the steps anyway, in spite of my fears. I've been sober ever since. All I know is that my way of trying to not drink didn't work for me. The 12 suggested steps of AA did. It wasn't as bad as I thought.
But, since my Higher Power was that good olde Group, Of Drunks, I did the steps anyway, in spite of my fears. I've been sober ever since. All I know is that my way of trying to not drink didn't work for me. The 12 suggested steps of AA did. It wasn't as bad as I thought.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 49
I can relate as well. I do not agree with all the lingo and principals. It's hard to argue it doesn't help, because it does!
If anything it is a very affordable therapy session. I like to bring up some of the science behind the brain and what alcohol does to it. Including the time frame it takes for it to repair. I know I don't see eye to eye with many members.
Steps 4 and 5 are known techniques in the phycology world, important steps.
Do what works for you!
If anything it is a very affordable therapy session. I like to bring up some of the science behind the brain and what alcohol does to it. Including the time frame it takes for it to repair. I know I don't see eye to eye with many members.
Steps 4 and 5 are known techniques in the phycology world, important steps.
Do what works for you!
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