unchartedxo

i saw my counselor today for the first time in MONTHS. I am new to counseling. Only went three times before I stopped going. He told me I have "intimacy" issues... he's right, but it's hard to hear.

So I told him today about my occasional binge drinking and my revelation that I don't have control over my alcohol consumption. See, he seems off put by me because most people walk into his office because they have hit rock bottom... not because they FORESEE rock bottom. and he said that that makes me a very interesting patient. he asked me if I know WHY I drink. and I do! I over analyze. I over committee, I over perfect... I over think, plan, implement, and have high expectations. He said my process of thinking is my root problem. I can't work out, I have to work out, eat, think, and live to have the end result of fitness perfection. I have to be the perfect mom, and when my child acts out that's a direct reflection of my parenting, I have to be the most attentive and loving partner, and I have to maintain strength/control at all times. I stifle emotions and try to think rationally, logically (hello intimacy issues!) and when I have JUST ONE drink, that warm... fuzzy.... forgiving... IN THE MOMENT feeling allows me to stop caring. For a brief period of time. and I want that feeling more and more and more (with drinks and drinks and drinks) until I am inebriated and all those fears of "less than perfect", of not meeting my expectations, come back, emotionally (cause I am drunk), in full force, and my anxiety is THROUGH THE ROOF!

Sigh, I am rambling. Basically, I looked at him and asked him. then how the H@LL do I avoid drinking when I need to NOT be perfect for a change??? I need an alternative! again... sigh

jdooner

Hmm...my first reaction is a bit of a surprise that your counselor only deal with people that have hit rock bottom, although I don't doubt you are an interesting patient.

I agree with you that there is solace in blissful ignorance. Unfortunately for you and I we tend to think too much, as we are just wired that way. I am definitely seeing control issues throughout this post. Part of recovery is about letting go. Its actually what I struggle with the most.

I too am in therapy at the moment and I relate with many of your comments. My issues go back to early childhood and have manifested in personality disorders and liek you, I loved the escape that drinking and drugs provided. Basically any pleasurable experience I would do over and over and over even the way I listen to music if I hear a song that I like.

I would be surprised if you identify the key issues in one session. I look at this as a major work in process that starts with being sober and then figuring this other stuff, the important stuff out during the recovery process.

In terms of your question, you are not perfect. I don't know you but would bet my life savings on that - everyone is flawed, its all relative. You don't need to be perfect, you just need to learn to live in your own skin. Focus on not drinking for the day, week, month and keep up the therapy.

Johnston

Maybe you just like the way it makes you feel?

lessgravity

Whatever the possible life experience inclination we can identifiy I think it's really one thing and one thing only - a numbing, obliterative, sweet feeling of pleasure.

Deep pleasure - as is identified in Rational Recovery. A deep pleasure that might cause problems and pain in every other aspect of our lives - but a deep pleasure nonetheless. One that makes everything else in the world go away. Until, the next day, when we wake up and there everything else is - ruined in our hangover.

It may benefit you to look for root causes, and if it does, more power to you. For me, it's simple (which doesn't make it anymore difficult) - there's a part of me, that's never going away, that I'll have to confront for the rest of my life in various forms (call it the Beast, AV, worse self), and that part of me loves the drunk.

I just don't want to give in to that part of me anymore.

Stay strong and good luck.

unchartedxo

MOSTLY deals with rock bottom people. He said that MOST of his patients come in because something happened; my husband /wife will leave me if I don't seek counseling, I received a DUI, I am about to lose my job, I gambled my life savings away, I lost my children... etc etc.

I haven't had anything "bad" happen to me. well, not by most standards. But I lost control. I couldn't moderate. I was someone I didn't like being. I disappointed myself. I don't want to feel that way again. Simply, I lost control.

He says that I am very engaging and easy to talk to but often do not speak from emotion, but from logic. I'm not a touchy-feely kind of girl. and while we haven't identified all my key problems, we have ideas on why I drink the way I drink... the digging for more information and causes will take more time.

But again... time, is great. What's going to happen next time I am stressed to the max by my own emotions and that first long draw from a beer bottle image is dancing in my head? I need a more effective stress-reducing alternative...

and someone said maybe I just like the way it feels? Yea... for like 20 mins. and then I go past the comfortable "beer" window and HATE that feeling. or maybe I don't. sigh. thinking back, when I am drunk... I like the narrow "in the moment" feeling...

ScottFromWI

What was his answer to your question?

AlefVavResh

re: control
I never made any progress over alcohol until I uttered the words "I can't do this by myself." It is kind of a relief, actually, to let go. Then it was like someone flipped a switch. . . Maybe that could be your something different?

jdooner

As you can see from the many posts on this board everyone is at different places in the recovery process. You might not be ready to stop drinking, although posting on a sober website shows your desire.

If the romance is that "long draw" what don't you like about the drink? Is it the hangover, embarrassing things you may or may not do while drunk? Blackouts, driving under the influence, health issues? Maybe it would help to think about the negatives to offset the dancing bottles?

Control is interesting; how do you know you ever had control?

I so relate to your comments BTW. I too have what is called a high bottom - I have not lost everything and really didn't think I hurt many around me. As my sobriety increases I am learning I probably did hurt my wife, maybe my kids, and perhaps some colleagues by not being present. I am working on becoming a better person and time will tell.

I am an engineer by background so I try to identify the root cause and fix things. Its why I started therapy and why I struggle with step #3 in AA (Turning my life and will over to a higher power). I like math, as there is no gray area - the equation either works or you have the wrong variable. This has been my approach. Unfortunately in figuring me out I am finding a bit more gray than I would have hoped.

I found it helpful to understand the science of addiction a bit more. If your like me, just Google addiction and there will be plenty of hits. If you are an alcoholic/addict like I am then the drink or beer in your case releases dopamine to your brain. At some point in the drinking the dopamine release overpowers everything else. Meaning the drink become more important to you than all else, which is why we risk everything including our lives for this drug. Based on this brainwashing, you nor I ever had control of this process.

In terms of advice, you sound like you have started the process of trying to identify yourself and the reasons you drink. How about joining a group either on line or in person? Is AA an option for you? Having someone you are accountable to is helpful to work the plan to stop the first drink when you have an urge. Also the 24hr thread is great to join to commit not to drink for the day just to keep you honest.

unchartedxo

He really didn't have one :-/ but was satisfied with my resolution that alcohol is never an option again. that I am dedicated to understanding my lack of control and consistency with alcohol use is a problem.

That healthy alternatives is not necessarily the answer. That resolving my reasons for my ways of thinking IS the answer... which takes? You guessed it. Time.

For the love of all that's holy and good in the world.... arg! (haha!)

Johnston

That in-the-moment feeling is what I was referring to. For me it lasted 2 beers in, maybe an hour tops. I'm not exactly thinking long term when I pick up. And have you ever considered that such compulsions are applicable (albeit not as damaging, maybe) concerning other substances and /or activities? I still find myself lamenting the first piece of chocolate at times after I've gone through the whole box.

ScottFromWI

You may never fully understand your lack of control over alcohol. If you did you probably wouldn't be an alcoholic in the first place, right? Don't drive yourself crazy trying to figure that out either. Realize that alcohol does bad things to you and that if you don't drink those bad things won't happen. You then have time and the strength to work on the underlying issues which we almost all have.

unchartedxo

yes, I offset the dancing bottles with the full tape. I think about my last drinking experience. I think about the draw... I get all warm and fuzzy. and then I think about the rest of the day. the lack of control, the words, the actions, and the hopelesses the next day that lead me to find you'll. I play the tape, it's sufficiently subsiding the dancing bottles... for now.

and I have committed to not drinking again. AA isn't an option. I don't really know how to explain why: I would build up expectations in myself, and my growth and if I didn't satisfy those expectations I become stressed and feel insufficient. It's quite distracting.

I think in flow charts, as an engineer you will understand. Cause and effect... if I do this, this can happen or THAT can happen. adding another "meeting" on top of counseling, on top of my normal responsibilities... not a good conclusion. I DID however disclose my conclusion that I can not drink again and why to my biggest supporter, my significant other. He has been down the route of alcohol abuse, to make the "nightmares" of war go away (diagnosed PTSD), and he does NOT abuse alcohol in any way. He knows my struggles and for some undetermined reason loves the crap out of me. I am lucky. He will be my biggest supporter.

I guess now I need to focus on giving myself some slack, not expecting perfection from myself and calming my thought process. That's a tough one...

unchartedxo

YES! yes yes yes... you put it in a way I can say absolutely yes.

can I go for a mile run? no... I start at a slow mile pace and quickly incline to a fast 5 mile run.

can I eat a few celery sticks? no... I LOVE celery and will eat the whole bag!

Not all things are done to the extreme, but yes.. I have compulsions with other things besides drinking. Calorie counting and fitness can get out of control (I was anorexic in high school). and I can over eat...

very interesting...

soberhawk

I think there often is some escapism in drinking – at least in my use of alcohol.

freshstart57

Uncharted, I am not sure if what follows is anything you will agree with, but here goes:

You have a behaviour that you wish to change because it has a negative effect on your life. You can respond to situations based on logic and reason. You have identified a possible solution to your concerns.

Based on these statements, may I suggest that you break this big tangled problem into smaller bite-sized pieces in this way:

• Stop drinking, simply because it makes sense to do so.
• Make a plan about continuing to use alcohol in the future, under any circumstance.
• Find a way to accept and manage the stress you have in a way that is not destructive to your physical, emotional and mental health.

There are details which must be considered for each of these, but the same technique of divide and conquer can be applied to each of these too, except for the first one, stop drinking. You can stop drinking right now by understanding that each reason you imagine for continuing to drink is based on the false assumption that drinking makes things better. There is no problem or issue or event which cannot be destroyed or worsened beyond belief by drinking. It makes nothing better. Everything is worsened by continuing to consume alcohol.


You may believe that there are 'underlying issues' for your drinking. I think we all have aspects in our lives that would benefit from some action to improve them. None of this can happen, and you will be unable to look at anything objectively or rationally if you continue to drink. Get sober first, and then see if anything needs serious fixing. You might find, as I and many others have, that once alcohol is removed, problems shrink dramatically, and some disappear altogether.

As for the continuous striving for control and perfection, may I suggest that you read about mindfulness. It is a very powerful tool that can be used to help with addiction, with preventing relapse, and with acceptance of life on its own terms. It encourages you to be present, to be present in the present, to leave the past behind, to stop fearing things that haven't happened, and to focus your energy on the present. Now is the only time we have to change things, to act, to live. And it is the only time we can choose to be sober.

You can choose to be sober, Uncharted. You can choose to have the life without addiction and the hell that comes with it. You can choose to have a life with your measure of peace, and beauty, and joy. You can choose to have the life you deserve to have.

So, are you ready to make your plan about continuing to use alcohol?

jdooner

You have come to the right place, we are all like this. I can't even listen to a song once if I like it I have to put it on repeat till I get sick of it. Drives my wife nuts.

I went skydiving for the first time a while back and loved the thrill, so I subsequently did 15 jumps in the same day, got my solo license till my money ran out.

I can't do anything unless its to the max...I love putting my back up against the wall bc I operate best when the odds are against me. But its an insane, lonly and awful way to live. I cannot be content with my compulsion that there is something bigger, better, greater high out there.

I posted about some science of addiction in my above post - I found it helpful to understand the science of what is going on. We are like rats here - there is no win against this compulsion we are going to loose bc our brains have been washed in the idea that we need more dopamine and will do anything for it. This is the root of the addiction - alcohol, drugs, adrenaline, endorphins, they are all pleasurable things that cause this release.

unchartedxo

interesting. alcohol releases dopamine. I am not surprised to hear that, but wasn't aware. I will google addition. I am a fan of research.

I guess same can be said about the "runners high" I workout and often get that "rush" ... that survival mode your body goes into. Same concept: the release of endorphins in the brain to offset the strain on the body.

Freshstart 57: to answer your final sentence, my plan about my drinking, is to not drink! I don't have many struggles day-to-day. In fact, craving alcohol has never really been my problem. Its when I have that first drink is when it becomes a problem... and I have been putting measures into place to avoid wanting that first drink: modifying my social settings, avoiding place of association (hitting a bucket of balls at the driving range while drinking beer, etc). and my accountability partners have been put into place! and of course admitting to myself I lack the control to have one. that was huge.

JuliaGulia99

I can very much relate to your post today. Don't beat yourself up too much . I know the feeling you're describing. It's an endless, vicious cycle. This alcohol addiction. I went this morning to an outpatient treatment center and spoke w/ a therapist. Only my second time ever. I was so nervous, ashamed, believing that it couldn't help. If you don't think this is a good fit w/ your counselor there are many others out there. I find it easiest to talk to other women. I'm a mom of two children, sweet little girls. There's a distinct need for being the super woman for everyone. Husband, kids, clean house, it never ends. I feel where you are right now. If you want to send me a pm you're welcome to. As women, there's so much responsibility and pressure from all angles. I hope the rest of your day gets better

jdooner

Anxiety relief is one cause for alcohol abuse. But another major cause could also be, simply, pleasure. Is that possible? Can someone who starts drinking just because it makes them feel good go on to abuse or become dependent on alcohol?

Those are among the questions that Sara R. Jones, PhD, associate professor of physiology and pharmacology, is trying to answer in her rodent research.

The euphoric effects of alcohol and most other abused drugs are associated with the amount of the neurotransmitter dopamine in the brain synapses. Virtually all abused substances elevate “extracellular” dopamine levels in the nucleus accumbens and other brain regions, but they do it in different ways.

Alcohol increases dopamine levels by directly raising the firing rate of isolated dopamine neurons, Jones said. That is well established. Beyond that, she said, there is some controversy over other ways that alcohol might influence the dopamine system.

One theory, which Jones’s work has recently disproven, was that alcohol also blocked uptake by dopamine transporters, with the net effect of leaving more dopamine in the synapse. This is the mechanism cocaine uses to elevate dopamine.

“What we have published is that that’s wrong,” Jones said. She explained that her lab uses tiny electrodes that actually take measurements across individual synapses at intervals of 1/10 of a second. “This is really the best way to look at dopamine uptake, and we have shown that alcohol does not inhibit dopamine uptake.”

In fact, she said, after chronic alcohol use the brain actually increases the number of dopamine transporters, trying to carry away the increased amount of dopamine in the synapses. This bodes ill for the alcoholic.

When the alcohol stops, so does its increased dopamine production. But the extra number of transporters remains, clearing away what little dopamine there is. When this occurs in Jones’s mouse model, “they are the most depressed mice you’ve ever seen. They have almost no dopamine, and that has got to be a very anhedonic or dysphoric state.” In human terms, she said, “you feel very, very low, and you can’t feel any normal pleasure.”

And that, she said, could be a reason that alcoholics relapse. “These mice are probably going back to the alcohol because the alcohol brings their dopamine back up to a ‘normal’ level. Why wouldn’t you go back to the alcohol, to try to get back to a normal state?”

So what began as a pleasurable experience, over time becomes a necessity, just to try to bring things back to something approaching normal. “And that takes weeks (of abstinence) to recover from, to reach a naturally normal dopamine state again, even in a mouse that’s only been exposed to alcohol for four days,” Jones said.

“You can imagine that after years of drinking, people may never recover. If you’re a motivated alcoholic, you can go without a drink for a week. But six months down the road, if you’re still not feeling good, it’ll wear you down.”

EndGameNYC

Y'up. Thank you for the demonstration in your comments.

Control is nothing but an illusion that takes a great deal of effort to build, and that eats up a great deal of energy to maintain. Perfectionism and other types of compulsions that are based on an exaggerated need for control are deployed in the service of avoiding harm; yet the same compulsions also create a breach between us and reality, in part because pain is an integral part of what is real, as is our ability to manage pain.

Alcohol is the simple answer, even though we rarely know the question.