Hiding drinking
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Hiding drinking
How do you know if they're hiding what they're drinking? For the first time ever, I actually suspect dh's been drinking on the job. It's the things he says & the way he acts some nights when he gets home from work. Not every night, but some nights. And, of course, there were the two nights in the last two weeks that he was obviously drinking or drunk but there were no beer bottles out.
In counseling yesterday, I did tell him that ds's counselor wants him to attend AA before ds comes home (ds 15 is staying with my parents.) I wasn't brave enough to actually say what ds's counselor said - 90 meetings in 90 days. First, he said that he would be willing to stop drinking if that were the issue but the "occasional" drink that he has is relaxing, he enjoys it, and he doesn't see why he should give it up if it's not the problem. The counselor asked if it was a problem, and chicken me said "sometimes, yes it is." Why didn't I just say YES??! She asked him how much he drinks and he said "maybe 6 beers/week." My guess was 10-20+ but I'm really re-thinking that. I go to bed much earlier than dh so I really don't know how much he drinks. Just what I see in the fridge in the garage. When I brought up the vodka, he told her quit after I asked him to (just failed to mention that I asked multiple times before he quit.) He said he was only going through a 1/5every 3-4 weeks. I told him & the counselor that dd 13 had been counting his vodka bottles unbeknownst to me (at the same time that I was) and that she & I both counted one/week for several weeks plus the beer in the fridge. Next, I mentioned that I had been wondering if he was hiding how much he drank (& mentioned the night I came home when he was very drunk and there were no beer bottles around anywhere.) DH convinced the counselor that he wasn't drunk, the beer bottles were in the trash, that I have a bad memory, and that ds is lying to his counselor about dh's drinking
And, of course, he has her convinced that ds enjoys living at his grandparents.... away from his siblings, his dvr, his xbox, wifi, tv, and his cats. He ended by saying that he would be willing to "temporarily" give up drinking to help the situation but would not be willing to permanently give it up since it's something he enjoys and is not part of the "problem."
I admit that I've looked around the garage and found nothing. I really, really want to search his car. But that would be crazy, right?? I have to admit I'm feeling pretty crazy right now He tried to convince me last night that I'm the one who "made" him go back to school by threatening divorce if he didn't, and that he never wanted to go back to school and was terrified when he decided to quit (without consulting me) that I would divorce him. Ironically, I was studying for the GMAT and preparing to go back to school when "we" decided that he should go back first since he'd been laid off and couldn't find a job. But, of course, that's just my bad memory
I have looked up the al-anon meetings multiple times. I think I'm finally ready to commit.
In counseling yesterday, I did tell him that ds's counselor wants him to attend AA before ds comes home (ds 15 is staying with my parents.) I wasn't brave enough to actually say what ds's counselor said - 90 meetings in 90 days. First, he said that he would be willing to stop drinking if that were the issue but the "occasional" drink that he has is relaxing, he enjoys it, and he doesn't see why he should give it up if it's not the problem. The counselor asked if it was a problem, and chicken me said "sometimes, yes it is." Why didn't I just say YES??! She asked him how much he drinks and he said "maybe 6 beers/week." My guess was 10-20+ but I'm really re-thinking that. I go to bed much earlier than dh so I really don't know how much he drinks. Just what I see in the fridge in the garage. When I brought up the vodka, he told her quit after I asked him to (just failed to mention that I asked multiple times before he quit.) He said he was only going through a 1/5every 3-4 weeks. I told him & the counselor that dd 13 had been counting his vodka bottles unbeknownst to me (at the same time that I was) and that she & I both counted one/week for several weeks plus the beer in the fridge. Next, I mentioned that I had been wondering if he was hiding how much he drank (& mentioned the night I came home when he was very drunk and there were no beer bottles around anywhere.) DH convinced the counselor that he wasn't drunk, the beer bottles were in the trash, that I have a bad memory, and that ds is lying to his counselor about dh's drinking
And, of course, he has her convinced that ds enjoys living at his grandparents.... away from his siblings, his dvr, his xbox, wifi, tv, and his cats. He ended by saying that he would be willing to "temporarily" give up drinking to help the situation but would not be willing to permanently give it up since it's something he enjoys and is not part of the "problem." I admit that I've looked around the garage and found nothing. I really, really want to search his car. But that would be crazy, right?? I have to admit I'm feeling pretty crazy right now
He tried to convince me last night that I'm the one who "made" him go back to school by threatening divorce if he didn't, and that he never wanted to go back to school and was terrified when he decided to quit (without consulting me) that I would divorce him. Ironically, I was studying for the GMAT and preparing to go back to school when "we" decided that he should go back first since he'd been laid off and couldn't find a job. But, of course, that's just my bad memory I have looked up the al-anon meetings multiple times. I think I'm finally ready to commit.
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Yes, get thee to Alanon! Alanon is going to put the focus on YOU and what YOU want to change, since you are the only person you have any control over. They'll provide you with plenty of support and a lot of experience, strength and hope.
Lying about how much he is drinking and whether he is drinking is pretty much standard for A's, as far as I have seen on this forum and in my own experience. Whatever he tells himself, whatever he has convinced the counselor of, you know what behavior you are seeing, and you know if it's unacceptable. Doesn't matter if it was caused by 1 beer or a case of beer. All that matters is the behavior.
Keep reading and posting here (don't miss the stickies at the top of the page). Also there is a recent thread about how we all come here thinking our situation is unique and no one will understand, but once we realize that EVERYONE has the same story, give or take a few details, it's very freeing. We realize it's not our fault--like they say in Alanon, we didn't Cause it, we can't Cure it, and we can't Control it.
Let us know how that meeting goes! Again, there are a few recent threads about Alanon that you can read if you need more encouragement.
Go ahead and commit! You'll be glad you did--and like they say, if you go and you DON'T like it, you can have your misery refunded at the door on the way out!
Lying about how much he is drinking and whether he is drinking is pretty much standard for A's, as far as I have seen on this forum and in my own experience. Whatever he tells himself, whatever he has convinced the counselor of, you know what behavior you are seeing, and you know if it's unacceptable. Doesn't matter if it was caused by 1 beer or a case of beer. All that matters is the behavior.
Keep reading and posting here (don't miss the stickies at the top of the page). Also there is a recent thread about how we all come here thinking our situation is unique and no one will understand, but once we realize that EVERYONE has the same story, give or take a few details, it's very freeing. We realize it's not our fault--like they say in Alanon, we didn't Cause it, we can't Cure it, and we can't Control it.
Let us know how that meeting goes! Again, there are a few recent threads about Alanon that you can read if you need more encouragement.
Go ahead and commit! You'll be glad you did--and like they say, if you go and you DON'T like it, you can have your misery refunded at the door on the way out!
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A's will minimize and deflect and negotiate around the issue; it is what they do. There's nothing we can do to change that. I used to put a LOT of energy into proving I was RIGHT about how much my XABF was drinking. In the end, the amount, the time, whatever the heck he was doing with the bottles...it didn't matter in the slightest. And all the energy I was sinking into winning that losing argument was energy that was far better served focused on me and my own behavior.
Alcoholism thrives on silence and denial. Like you I found it really hard to admit the extent of the problem. Be patient with yourself. Know that it is okay to tell the truth. Know that it is okay whether he likes it or not. You are allowed to own your truth, even if you denied it before.
Sending you strength and courage!
Alcoholism thrives on silence and denial. Like you I found it really hard to admit the extent of the problem. Be patient with yourself. Know that it is okay to tell the truth. Know that it is okay whether he likes it or not. You are allowed to own your truth, even if you denied it before.
Sending you strength and courage!
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Alanon or some sort of support group for sure. Start journaling everything and take pics of what you do find and keep it all in a place he cannot find any of it to remove it.
My DH hides his in the following places:
toolbox in the garage
car trunk
under our bed on his side (genious right)
in a stoarage tub in the garage
The toolbox seems to be a favorite place. I have even told him I have found them there before yet he still keeps putting them back there. Hate to say, I think he is lazy. Another friend just cleaned out her garage and had beer cans falling out of the rafters of the garage. Geez.....
It sounds like he is deep in the throes of denial. I know someone said earlier, but keep in perspective, if your DS thinks it's enough of a problem to be counting bottles then LEAVES YOUR HOME, it is a huge problem even if your husband does not want to admit it. I am in this same boat, my husband drinks sometimes and thinks it's ok to drink sometimes. What I can say is no, it is not. Now I have to be brave enough to draw the line. I will say that I will always put my children before his nasty drinking habit from here on out and am actively doing so.
Good Luck to you and God Bless!
My DH hides his in the following places:
toolbox in the garage
car trunk
under our bed on his side (genious right)
in a stoarage tub in the garage
The toolbox seems to be a favorite place. I have even told him I have found them there before yet he still keeps putting them back there. Hate to say, I think he is lazy. Another friend just cleaned out her garage and had beer cans falling out of the rafters of the garage. Geez.....
It sounds like he is deep in the throes of denial. I know someone said earlier, but keep in perspective, if your DS thinks it's enough of a problem to be counting bottles then LEAVES YOUR HOME, it is a huge problem even if your husband does not want to admit it. I am in this same boat, my husband drinks sometimes and thinks it's ok to drink sometimes. What I can say is no, it is not. Now I have to be brave enough to draw the line. I will say that I will always put my children before his nasty drinking habit from here on out and am actively doing so.
Good Luck to you and God Bless!
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FYI..I only encourage you to document in case you need to for a custody battle. I do not think it is healthy to be sneaking around the house looking for alcohol you know is there...somewhere. I hate to say it, that is the only reason I am doing what I am doing. I need to be prepared to prove my case if I need to and was advised this is the best way to do it.
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I looked for the bottles...but all it did was add to the crazy making. Me, running around my yard with a flashlight looking for a stash of bottles (among other places) while he slumbered away on the couch. I was anxious, nervous, angry, etc. But what did all that energy expenditure get me? Stressed. What did it do to my RAH? He got better at hiding it. Never stopped him from drinking. Really, what was my looking for his empty bottles going to do? I didn't cause it, can't control it, can't cure it.
Shame & denial are a huge part of this disease. They are ashamed of what they are doing - they know they should not be drinking like this so they hide and lie about it. They also don't want anyone to know how bad it is, often they don't realize how bad it is.
Can you visit with the counselor individually? Would that help you to work out what you can do for yourself? It sounds like he is able to control a lot of the conversations with the counselor and manipulate you. Get to AlAnon...it will help.
Shame & denial are a huge part of this disease. They are ashamed of what they are doing - they know they should not be drinking like this so they hide and lie about it. They also don't want anyone to know how bad it is, often they don't realize how bad it is.
Can you visit with the counselor individually? Would that help you to work out what you can do for yourself? It sounds like he is able to control a lot of the conversations with the counselor and manipulate you. Get to AlAnon...it will help.
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Justagirl, this is a reason that couples counseling (if this is what you are doing) is pretty useless while one of the couple is actively using. Of course, you can't really blame the counselor--she only knows what she has been told. He is minimizing and you are caught up in it. Most therapists will recommend individual counseling for the partners when they discover that one or both are addicted.
As honeypig pointed out--the actions--the behavior will tell the tale--you don't have to have the physical evidence. You know what you know--don't doubt yourself.
My adult son tried to convince me that the gardener (who doesn't drink) was bringing empty vodka bottles to our house and putting them under my son's mattress and in the closet. When I confronted him (my son)--"Why would the gardener drive empty vodka bottles all the way across town and sneak them into our house?"....he said "That is a good question--you should talk to him about that"!
An active alcoholic will lie about drinking to your face while holding a drink in their hand. Denial is strong!
dandylion
As honeypig pointed out--the actions--the behavior will tell the tale--you don't have to have the physical evidence. You know what you know--don't doubt yourself.
My adult son tried to convince me that the gardener (who doesn't drink) was bringing empty vodka bottles to our house and putting them under my son's mattress and in the closet. When I confronted him (my son)--"Why would the gardener drive empty vodka bottles all the way across town and sneak them into our house?"....he said "That is a good question--you should talk to him about that"!
An active alcoholic will lie about drinking to your face while holding a drink in their hand. Denial is strong!
dandylion
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Thank you all for your honesty. It's funny, I can (do) tell myself that hunting for the vodka bottles will only make me more obsessed... and yet I do it anyway. Today, I did check the tool box (no vodka), sniff his mt dew bottle (smelled like mt dew), but I haven't checked his car or the action packers. I really think his car is the most logical place. He did tell me that he only started keeping the vodka in the fridge a few months ago because his boss told him it tastes best from the freezer (!) (This is not the type of information I share with my employees!!) Before that he was keeping it in the cabinet in the garage and I never noticed because I don't use that cabinet. I have decided to stop looking for bottles. It's making me more obsessive and crazy-feeling. (Thank you carryon, envisioning myself running around the yard with a flashlight actually made me laugh for the first time today 
)
My epiphany for the day is that at least one of the following three has to be true: (1) I'm going crazy, (2) his "non" drinking problem really is worse than I thought, or (3) he's mentally ill. One thing is for certain, if I don't stop obsessing over the this, I will end up going crazy :p I'm suppose to be studying for the GMAT again but haven't even looked the books for a month
There's an al-anon meeting at 7 tomorrow. I'm trying to psych myself up for it. I appreciate everyone's responses. It's nice to know I'm not alone.
)My epiphany for the day is that at least one of the following three has to be true: (1) I'm going crazy, (2) his "non" drinking problem really is worse than I thought, or (3) he's mentally ill. One thing is for certain, if I don't stop obsessing over the this, I will end up going crazy :p I'm suppose to be studying for the GMAT again but haven't even looked the books for a month
There's an al-anon meeting at 7 tomorrow. I'm trying to psych myself up for it. I appreciate everyone's responses. It's nice to know I'm not alone.
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OY, wanted to add that thankfully, in my state, in divorces, the teen has the most say in where he/she lives. Both ds & dd have said they'd live with me. Oldest ds is legally an adult so it's a non-issue. He finished college recently and ironically, is an addictions counselor (drug, not alcohol.)
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Dandylion, I am beginning to think marriage counseling is a futile effort. I think the counselor likes dh better than me. He can be charming. Ironically, I come out of our sessions feeling like I'm crazy and the problems are all my fault. Then, I take ds to his counselor, and his counselor pushes AA and al-anon and says that we can't fix anything (marriage or w/ds & dh) until dh stops drinking. Total 180. Ds's counselor is certified in drug & alcohol addictions and has been treating addictions for a couple decades. If I wasn't already feeling crazy, the differences in opinions between the counselors is enough to drive me there!
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Hi JustAGirl,
My AH used to fill water bottles with vodka and keep them in his car. It would look like a six pack of water but really it was a six pack of vodka. So look for "hidden in plain sight" too.
It is difficult to say out loud to another person what is REALLY going on with the drinking. Because it is so crazy! But, eventually, you will be able to tell the counselor that you weren't completely honest and that it causes problems in your marriage every time he drinks.
And, yes. He will be mad at you for that.
I am also of the belief that the A is drinking WAY MORE than we know. He will start with the justifications to make you think YOU are the crazy one. "What's the big deal; It's only a couple of beers; I lied about it because you're so uptight; I hid it because you won't let me drink in front of the kids"...quack quack quack.
My AH used to fill water bottles with vodka and keep them in his car. It would look like a six pack of water but really it was a six pack of vodka. So look for "hidden in plain sight" too.
It is difficult to say out loud to another person what is REALLY going on with the drinking. Because it is so crazy! But, eventually, you will be able to tell the counselor that you weren't completely honest and that it causes problems in your marriage every time he drinks.
And, yes. He will be mad at you for that.
I am also of the belief that the A is drinking WAY MORE than we know. He will start with the justifications to make you think YOU are the crazy one. "What's the big deal; It's only a couple of beers; I lied about it because you're so uptight; I hid it because you won't let me drink in front of the kids"...quack quack quack.
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Your story and mine have a lot of similarities. My AH also seems to be drinking at work. I don't know how much; he hides it well. Our teens are being affected because he will drive them while intoxicated and unfortunately the driving is what our first clue is that he has been drinking. So, I'm going to alanon. I'm trying to learn to detach for my own sanity. I don't want to worry without ceasing when he isn't with me. I don't want to keep checking my ifind phone app to see if he's really at work. I don't want to spend my free time smelling his used 64oz QT or styrofoam cup to see if that really was a soda or coffee he drank. This is NOT how I want to spend my free time!! Do you?
So... Im attending alanon; I post here a TON; Im reading all the alanon literature; Im also reading Codependent No More, which I would strongly suggest read, too. You'll see a lot of yourself in that book.
Anyway, all this to say, start focusing on you and your children, period. If he is going to do this to himself, and he has proven he will and is, make sure it is TO HIMSELF and not you and the kids. However you can best go about that whether you stay in the marriage or not. It will help ease your stress... Its starting to ease mine. And, lots of tears... get them out whenever you can; I'm finding alanon is the place to do that, so take kleenex. This is what has helped me thus far and I've only admitted to myself the problem last week.
Hugs!
So... Im attending alanon; I post here a TON; Im reading all the alanon literature; Im also reading Codependent No More, which I would strongly suggest read, too. You'll see a lot of yourself in that book.
Anyway, all this to say, start focusing on you and your children, period. If he is going to do this to himself, and he has proven he will and is, make sure it is TO HIMSELF and not you and the kids. However you can best go about that whether you stay in the marriage or not. It will help ease your stress... Its starting to ease mine. And, lots of tears... get them out whenever you can; I'm finding alanon is the place to do that, so take kleenex. This is what has helped me thus far and I've only admitted to myself the problem last week.
Hugs!
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I once found a half-empty pint of vodka in the litter box. Not a freshly-cleaned litter box either. No kidding. I scooped it out with the other cr@p and left it on the floor for him. He drank it too. Didn't bother washing the cat$4!t off or anything. But he doesn't have a problem, he just likes to relax. LOL. Sorry, that was gross. There should be a new thread like Quackers- Weirdest places to find alcohol.
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Originally Posted by ladyscribbler 
I once found a half-empty pint of vodka in the litter box. Not a freshly-cleaned litter box either. No kidding. I scooped it out with the other cr@p and left it on the floor for him. He drank it too. Didn't bother washing the cat$4!t off or anything. But he doesn't have a problem, he just likes to relax. LOL. Sorry, that was gross. There should be a new thread like Quackers- Weirdest places to find alcohol.
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Originally Posted by choublak
He didn't try to deny it and say it belonged to the cat?
The cats have much more discriminating tastes. They only drink the water that comes out of tuna cans. He did used to blame the animals for urinating (and occasionally defecating) in and on his pants. That he was wearing.
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Originally Posted by JustAGirl1971
Thank you carryon, envisioning myself running around the yard with a flashlight actually made me laugh for the first time today
Ladyscribbler/Choublak...you've got me laughing now, too!!
So, that's one more benefit of what I've learned...I can laugh at the humor and all the goofy things RAH and I both did!
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Originally Posted by choublak
I'm curious, what do these active A's do for a living to be able to be drinking at work?
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"Our teens are being affected because he will drive them while intoxicated"
My kids know not to get in the car with hubby. They are teens, so I just explained it is really hard to tell when he is drinking and when he isn't- so wait for me for the rides. Emergency, call grandma, either of my two best friends, or my brother. I told them to blame it on me if he asks "Sorry, can't. Mom won't let me." It has been two years and he has never pushed it. He doesn't even ask anymore. He did say something to me once and I told him it wasn't personal. I just ca't trust him to not be drinking.
My kids know not to get in the car with hubby. They are teens, so I just explained it is really hard to tell when he is drinking and when he isn't- so wait for me for the rides. Emergency, call grandma, either of my two best friends, or my brother. I told them to blame it on me if he asks "Sorry, can't. Mom won't let me." It has been two years and he has never pushed it. He doesn't even ask anymore. He did say something to me once and I told him it wasn't personal. I just ca't trust him to not be drinking.
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