Ward of state or get guardianship for adult sibling
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: U.S.
Posts: 130
Ward of state or get guardianship for adult sibling
Things are happening so fast with my adult brother homeless alcoholic that my head is spinning. I'm looking for advice from all angles so that my sister and I hopefully will find a solution we will regret the least.
He is 50 and is homeless in another state from each of us. The closest of us is a one-day drive away, if it is not snowing. We just found out yesterday he's been detoxing in the hospital for about 10 days after going into alcohol withdrawal after an ankle surgery. He is apparently now delusional. The case worker thinks this may be a permanent mental state because he has been off alcohol for almost 2 weeks.
The discharge planning team is trying to put together a makeshift plan for him with community housing temporarily but with the meds he's now on and his inability to walk on his ankle, they say he really needs a skilled nursing facility. But that could only be attained if he applied for Medicaid and disability for him but the clincher is that we'd first have to become legal guardian in order to even apply for that (because of his current mental state).
Sigh. This is just the opposite of the hands off approach we've been using with him for decades so that we don't enable. My gut is telling me that is too much responsibility for us to take on. The alternative appears to be having the state take over guardianship (ward of the state) and he'd most likely go to a state psychiatric hospital.
I know the state hospital is probably really bad. I don't even know it's guaranteed he would go there. But being an out of state guardian for someone who is an alcoholic, with a couple instances of suicidal talk, and who is delusional doesn't seem like a smarter or better solution.
Thoughts, experiences, insight are appreciated.
He is 50 and is homeless in another state from each of us. The closest of us is a one-day drive away, if it is not snowing. We just found out yesterday he's been detoxing in the hospital for about 10 days after going into alcohol withdrawal after an ankle surgery. He is apparently now delusional. The case worker thinks this may be a permanent mental state because he has been off alcohol for almost 2 weeks.
The discharge planning team is trying to put together a makeshift plan for him with community housing temporarily but with the meds he's now on and his inability to walk on his ankle, they say he really needs a skilled nursing facility. But that could only be attained if he applied for Medicaid and disability for him but the clincher is that we'd first have to become legal guardian in order to even apply for that (because of his current mental state).
Sigh. This is just the opposite of the hands off approach we've been using with him for decades so that we don't enable. My gut is telling me that is too much responsibility for us to take on. The alternative appears to be having the state take over guardianship (ward of the state) and he'd most likely go to a state psychiatric hospital.
I know the state hospital is probably really bad. I don't even know it's guaranteed he would go there. But being an out of state guardian for someone who is an alcoholic, with a couple instances of suicidal talk, and who is delusional doesn't seem like a smarter or better solution.
Thoughts, experiences, insight are appreciated.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,163
Medicaid, and disability do not happen overnight. Not only can it be a lengthy process it can also be DENIED.
I have no idea the length of time to obtain legal guardianship either.
Is he possibly a veteran?
I would call an attorney who deals with guardianship and ask him all these questions, and sometimes they even have a list of state approved resources.
Do you even want to consider bringing him to the state in which you reside?
While I do not have any viable working solutions, you certainly have my continued support as you sort through your brothers very sad and troubled life.
I have no idea the length of time to obtain legal guardianship either.
Is he possibly a veteran?
I would call an attorney who deals with guardianship and ask him all these questions, and sometimes they even have a list of state approved resources.
Do you even want to consider bringing him to the state in which you reside?
While I do not have any viable working solutions, you certainly have my continued support as you sort through your brothers very sad and troubled life.
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: North salt lake
Posts: 3,325
Wow that is a very sad story. Im thinking I would take maria1960 advice. I would need to talk to an attorney to sort out all the implications of guardianship because I don't know. Prayers your way. Please keep posting.
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: U.S.
Posts: 130
We are not going to consider guardianship. It is not the best solution no matter what. We've thought it through, up and down and back and forth. I've spoken with a social worker I know who works in a hospital setting. I have her as a resource now, which takes a little bit of the helpless and overwhelming feeling away.
I had already given up on him ever getting/staying in recovery. It is heartbreaking to see his lifestyle being focused on getting the basics of food and shelter (and booze) for the day, how little he wants, and how lonely he is. I feel guilty that parts of my life are shallow compared to the hardship he endures daily. I don't feel I can control his outcome but I feel a sense of responsibility to him to be involved a little with the drs at the hospital and to work with the discharge planners at the hospital to get some sort of a plan in place for his discharge, even if he won't or doesn't follow through with it. We/I don't feel we can just ignore his medical situation completely. He will probably want to go back on the street with a foot that he cannot walk on instead of a skilled nursing facility which is what would be idea if we can apply for disability and medicare (or whatever, I don't understand all that yet) for him. Even if he doesn't or won't go that route, I feel I have to do the paperwork since he cannot, to make it an option.
I totally know I cannot control what he does. I know I am not the cause or cure for his alcoholism (or his homelessness or his sad physical/mental state). I know I cannot cure or fix it.
He may end up back on the street, physically incapacitated. He may freeze to death this winter. Lots of other bad things could happen to him. We could be notified of his death at any time. He may die on the street and we may never get informed of it. None of this is new to me at all.
It is just so very very sad to see someone, a sibling, suffer like this.
I had already given up on him ever getting/staying in recovery. It is heartbreaking to see his lifestyle being focused on getting the basics of food and shelter (and booze) for the day, how little he wants, and how lonely he is. I feel guilty that parts of my life are shallow compared to the hardship he endures daily. I don't feel I can control his outcome but I feel a sense of responsibility to him to be involved a little with the drs at the hospital and to work with the discharge planners at the hospital to get some sort of a plan in place for his discharge, even if he won't or doesn't follow through with it. We/I don't feel we can just ignore his medical situation completely. He will probably want to go back on the street with a foot that he cannot walk on instead of a skilled nursing facility which is what would be idea if we can apply for disability and medicare (or whatever, I don't understand all that yet) for him. Even if he doesn't or won't go that route, I feel I have to do the paperwork since he cannot, to make it an option.
I totally know I cannot control what he does. I know I am not the cause or cure for his alcoholism (or his homelessness or his sad physical/mental state). I know I cannot cure or fix it.
He may end up back on the street, physically incapacitated. He may freeze to death this winter. Lots of other bad things could happen to him. We could be notified of his death at any time. He may die on the street and we may never get informed of it. None of this is new to me at all.
It is just so very very sad to see someone, a sibling, suffer like this.
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
He is an adult with the resources at hand to make choices in his life that would lead to greater health and stability. If you can't or don't want to swing for a guardianship, I think it's appropriate to step back and not take on the responsibility for providing him with care he doesn't want.
I'm sorry this is happening to you. It must be so painful. Please take care of yourself.
I'm sorry this is happening to you. It must be so painful. Please take care of yourself.
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 108
I am speechless. I am so sorry you are in such a horrible situation. My addicted son is 40 and in ten years I may be gone. To think that his sisters would be put in your situation just makes me feel sick. I can only believe that your first step, that of detachment many years ago, was very painful. I see my daughters hurting every day, because they are detaching. Now you're being faced with an impossible situation. I realize you are way beyond enabling and detaching. I get the feeling that you have dealt with this for many years. I think you have made the right choices before and will do that again. Professional counsel for yourselves is an excellent step. I wish you the best of luck and pray your loved one is able to secure a place to rest. I know that is what you want for him.
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Join Date: May 2013
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I haven't been able to check in much just because we have been taking action of sorts: monitoring his condition, getting info, meeting with community resources and getting advice from social workers with this kind of expertise. The discharge team really seemed to have jumped the gun and led us into a panic. He is still not ready to be released.
His condition has improved somewhat in the last week. Every day it is a little better, so that is a good sign. He's gotten out of the ICU. Apparently just being ICU does a trip on you and that itself can make one delusional. Not that there aren't other factors that can be contributing. We are in "wait and see" mode as to whether he will return to close to where he was before all this.
I have a suspicion that he may have had a seizure at the onset of his withdrawal (otherwise how would they have known he was starting to detox!) but I've not been able to get anyone to say there were or were not seizures. He has a tremor in the arm that has developed, which is why I think there might have been at least one seizure. He's had them in the past during cold turkey withdrawal.
We were given some slightly misleading info by the discharge planning team at the hospital. We do not need guardianship in order to get him disability and/or medicare, or whatever he may quality for. (He hasn't ever applied for this before and for right now he does admit he cannot care for himself, at least for the time being.) It seems unlikely they would put him in a psych hosp either. There is sober housing they are attempting to get for him, but without a support around that he could easily go back to drinking. Our position is to do what we can to open up opportunities that he can choose to take, and help look out for his best interest if he cannot.
My sister went to see him and I think that certainly helped. She got him to start eating more. Normally he eats only one small meal a day, in the later evening.
I know he may not stay off the beer. Over the decades we helped him with rehab once many years ago, and he's been detoxed a few times, and got himself to rehab last year on his own. If we give him things, he gets self destructive. He does better when he attains things himself. He asks for very little and takes very little. Last time I saw him we asked what he needed and the answer was batteries for his radio and a light for his bike so he'd be safe. He wouldn't even let us buy him food.
I don't judge him any longer (well, I don't think I do), and I've learned a lot more about alcoholism and why it's so dang hard for them to quit especially after decades of this, but it is so heartbreaking because it just seems like a hard life. I've found a couple people who have worked with homeless chronic alcoholics, and talking with them and getting good info helps me feel a lot less alone and a little less helpless. Although there isn't a lot I can control here!
Leftover, yes we have dealt with the alcoholism for 2 or 3 decades and the homelessness for maybe 15 years. My mother died about a month before all this happened. In our decision-making, we are trying to use the lens of what our mother would have done, since this is so very new to us. As sad and grief-stricken as I am about her death, we are both relieved that this didn't happen while she was still alive. It was just getting too hard for her to deal with this at her age and this would have been far too much for her to take.
I tell him I love him every time I talk to him no matter what. You never know when will be the last time you see someone. Especially in this situation.
His condition has improved somewhat in the last week. Every day it is a little better, so that is a good sign. He's gotten out of the ICU. Apparently just being ICU does a trip on you and that itself can make one delusional. Not that there aren't other factors that can be contributing. We are in "wait and see" mode as to whether he will return to close to where he was before all this.
I have a suspicion that he may have had a seizure at the onset of his withdrawal (otherwise how would they have known he was starting to detox!) but I've not been able to get anyone to say there were or were not seizures. He has a tremor in the arm that has developed, which is why I think there might have been at least one seizure. He's had them in the past during cold turkey withdrawal.
We were given some slightly misleading info by the discharge planning team at the hospital. We do not need guardianship in order to get him disability and/or medicare, or whatever he may quality for. (He hasn't ever applied for this before and for right now he does admit he cannot care for himself, at least for the time being.) It seems unlikely they would put him in a psych hosp either. There is sober housing they are attempting to get for him, but without a support around that he could easily go back to drinking. Our position is to do what we can to open up opportunities that he can choose to take, and help look out for his best interest if he cannot.
My sister went to see him and I think that certainly helped. She got him to start eating more. Normally he eats only one small meal a day, in the later evening.
I know he may not stay off the beer. Over the decades we helped him with rehab once many years ago, and he's been detoxed a few times, and got himself to rehab last year on his own. If we give him things, he gets self destructive. He does better when he attains things himself. He asks for very little and takes very little. Last time I saw him we asked what he needed and the answer was batteries for his radio and a light for his bike so he'd be safe. He wouldn't even let us buy him food.
I don't judge him any longer (well, I don't think I do), and I've learned a lot more about alcoholism and why it's so dang hard for them to quit especially after decades of this, but it is so heartbreaking because it just seems like a hard life. I've found a couple people who have worked with homeless chronic alcoholics, and talking with them and getting good info helps me feel a lot less alone and a little less helpless. Although there isn't a lot I can control here!
Leftover, yes we have dealt with the alcoholism for 2 or 3 decades and the homelessness for maybe 15 years. My mother died about a month before all this happened. In our decision-making, we are trying to use the lens of what our mother would have done, since this is so very new to us. As sad and grief-stricken as I am about her death, we are both relieved that this didn't happen while she was still alive. It was just getting too hard for her to deal with this at her age and this would have been far too much for her to take.
I tell him I love him every time I talk to him no matter what. You never know when will be the last time you see someone. Especially in this situation.
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,295
harvestqueen, have you ever heard of a "wet house"? They are in Minnesota. I don't know if any other states have embraced them. Chronic homeless alcoholics can get food, shelter, showers, and are allowed to drink on the premises.
I hope he chooses to listen to those who would try to help get him sober. But if he refuses sobriety, it is a thought simply to get him off the streets and into someplace safe and warm this winter.
CNN article: A safe place to drink, or just giving up? - CNN.com
I hope he chooses to listen to those who would try to help get him sober. But if he refuses sobriety, it is a thought simply to get him off the streets and into someplace safe and warm this winter.
CNN article: A safe place to drink, or just giving up? - CNN.com
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,407
Your love for your brother is palpable, he's blessed to have family that still care so much. I admire you for keeping real about all this, and doing what you can without enabling him. I also admire you for respecting his wishes as to how he lives his life.
Big (((hugs)))
Big (((hugs)))
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Join Date: May 2013
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Posts: 130
I am very grateful for the help and support of you all. The "crisis" has subsided a bit and he has been improving daily to the point where that initial scenario from the hospital now seems absurd. They totally sent me into a panic 
Mentally he's almost back to where he was before all this happened. He's still not out of the hospital but he's clear enough to engage in a conversation and he wants to get out (although he as usual has no clear place to go again). I am definitely concerned about what will happen to him as he gets older and life gets harder for him. I've learned a bit more about him by virtue of him being more or less sober while in the hospital. (I say "more or less" because they are occasionally giving him so vicodin for pain.) I can see how he wants a different life for himself but has no idea how to get to that point and he doesn't seem to want to be on the path to sobriety, or at least he isn't talking about it much.
Mentally he's almost back to where he was before all this happened. He's still not out of the hospital but he's clear enough to engage in a conversation and he wants to get out (although he as usual has no clear place to go again). I am definitely concerned about what will happen to him as he gets older and life gets harder for him. I've learned a bit more about him by virtue of him being more or less sober while in the hospital. (I say "more or less" because they are occasionally giving him so vicodin for pain.) I can see how he wants a different life for himself but has no idea how to get to that point and he doesn't seem to want to be on the path to sobriety, or at least he isn't talking about it much.
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