Marriage and Addiction and Recovery

Old 10-01-2013, 09:22 AM
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Marriage and Addiction and Recovery

I would like to know hear how your marriage vows, and the belief that "through better or worse, sickness and death" fits into your concept of addition, IF you believe addiction is a chronic disease, comparable to cancer, or other mental illness that can have a devastating affect on the family.

I am not looking for lists of how people suffered due to addiction, how angry they are, how cheated they feel. This is the point, families who have someone with chronic illness can all share war stories too.

I was sharing my story on another thread, and was telling how my husband quit cocaine almost two weeks ago now, but is feeling the emotional effects. I was given the impression it was wrong of me to subject myself to his problems, his moods because this was due to addiction. What if it was due to another illness?

On the other hand, I explained on my post how I am currently pregnant with our first child. I have already had many things go on with the pregnancy and my health that have affected me, and him. I have had to go to the ER ( he took me ), blood pressure problems (he bought me a monitor for home), morning sickness (he has cleaned up after me while I sat crying about how I will never survive this), irritability (being short with him), crying spells (he tries to comfort me), blood sugar problems (he has been bringing home healthy foods, fruit to help me change my diet).

I get a feeling if my husband posted here on this forum, left out the part about it being about a pregnancy, the majority of people here would say he should detach, think of his own needs, how he doesnt deserve to put up with my crap, and to just let me suffer on my own because Im a big girl.

In my post, I only had one comment about his efforts and it was to bash any comparison between his having an addiction and trying to recover, and my being sick while pregnant.

I started thinking, what is the difference? If you believe addiction is a disease?

Ive heard people on this forum respect their marriage vows, respect marriage in general, so I would like a simple explanation of how they view marriage, their role, responsibilities when dealing with addiction as a disease.

Thanks
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Old 10-01-2013, 09:38 AM
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You can not compare pregnancy to addiction, two entirely different things.

You can not compare addiction to cancer, again two entirely different things.

I do believe that anyone who gets married, and believes in the vows of marriage are still vunerable to disappointment in their spouse , if you believe that vows are holy and given before God, and then believe that because of those vows you need to stay in a marriage no matter what, then you also believe that God gives you no out, or God intends that you suffer whatever is suffered because of a spouses addiction.

Addiction has nothing to do with God, or vows, addiction , for me, does not fit into the discussion.

We as humans have free will.

It seems I often read here , how bad those of us who have left are, because we left someone with a disease. The difference between this disease and cancer for instance, is that the healer of this disease is solely the person who has it, there is no doctor that can get an addict to want to quit. It is apples and oranges.

I was in a relationship with and A whose disease was progressing to the point of no return, I was constantly under attack, for me it was leave or continue to be attacked, I spent five years trying to help someone that didn't want help, that loved booze more than anything in the world, he would do or say anything when drinking, the most hurtful evil things , things I could never even come up with, I thought God put me there to make his life better, God had a different plan, I had to be done, and leave, so God could do his work in his own way and in his own time.

Addiction is war, hopefully you husband will keep fighting, I hope you are neever faced with the decision many here have faced. And I mean that, the cure for you husband addiction is up to him, vows play no part in addiction.
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Old 10-01-2013, 09:53 AM
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I personally have been dealing with addiction as a disease. I personally have been lied to countless times, stolen from and financially abused.
I view marriage as a choice to who you are spending your life with. The person you love and want to be with. Love as an action in my definition. I can love him without paying for it. I don't have to give him money.. in exchange for him to love me. It should be a two way street... or the door swings both ways.
If he cannot take care of the children or act responsibly then simply.. he cannot. If he cannot stop stealing our things because of his sickness then (in my opinion) needs to go live somewhere else. I think I entered into marriage as an agreement. That he would love and cherish me (as an action not only a feeling). He cannot do these things because of his disease while he's in active addiction. I also have a hard time being able to show love because i'm angry that my stuff is being stolen and that he cannot be trustworthy.
So, in my opinion... if someone chooses not to get help for their disease (when help is out there) then they abandoned the marriage first. They are therefore not honoring their vows. Love is not selfish... and if their addiction is hurting you.. they are not fulfilling their vows.
Addiction is a disease... that will kill the family unit because of it's selfishness. It's inability to allow the user to love their families. The addicted ... because of their disease will lose their families if they do not seek help.
I am personally waiting for my AH to be released from jail Nov. 13th and then hopefully he will be getting into a 14+ month faith based treatment program.. where he will be living.
I am still trying to work our family out together. The only danger to me and the kids is future financial abuse if he ever relapses. I also have had to seek help in dealing with my feeling. I am trying to keep our marriage alive.. but addiction has the power to destroy good things if help isn't found. IN MY OWN OPINION.

I would like to add - I lived with my addicted husband until the stealing started. I dealt with the cold shoulders, the sickness, the bad moods, the neglect. I handled it. Then, I couldn't take it anymore. Something snapped. I don't regret throwing him out the first time. After 8 months of him doing God knows what.. he finally asked for help.
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Old 10-01-2013, 09:54 AM
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Abuse is NEVER okay. Someone who is encouraging you to stay in an abusive situation is an extremely sick person. Anyone who is trying to make you feel bad for protecting yourself from an abusive situation is an extremely sick person. Whether they realize it or not, they are sick. I have seen that happen around here. I think it's sad, and I also think it's very scary.
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Old 10-01-2013, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by interrupted View Post
Abuse is NEVER okay. Someone who is encouraging you to stay in an abusive situation is an extremely sick person. Anyone who is trying to make you feel bad for protecting yourself from an abusive situation is an extremely sick person. Whether they realize it or not, they are sick. I have seen that happen around here. I think it's sad, and I also think it's very scary.
I am not talking about staying in an abusive relationship, but then what is your view of abuse. Short words, being beaten, or something inbetween?
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Old 10-01-2013, 10:03 AM
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Abuse can be emotional, verbal, sexual, or physical. None of those are okay. Domestic violence is not okay, and it's not part of a loving relationship. This is from What Is Abuse - Domestic Violence

What is Abuse? - A Warning List


Many people who are being abused do not see themselves as victims. Also, abusers do not see themselves as being abusive. People often think of domestic violence as physical violence, such as hitting. However, domestic violence takes other forms, such as psychological, emotional, or sexual abuse.

Domestic violence is about one person in a relationship using a pattern of behaviors to control the other person. It can happen to people who are married or not married; heterosexual, gay, or lesbian; living together, separated, or dating.

If your partner repeatedly uses one or more of the following to control you;

pushing, hitting, slapping, choking, kicking, or biting
threatening you, your children, other family members or pets
threatening suicide to get you to do something
using or threatening to use a weapon against you
keeping or taking your paycheck
puts you down or makes you feel bad
forcing you to have sex or to do sexual acts you do not want or like
keeping you from seeing your friends, family or from going to work
YOU HAVE BEEN ABUSED!!

Remember threatened or actual physical violence may be illegal. Consider calling the police for help
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Old 10-01-2013, 10:04 AM
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Old 10-01-2013, 10:14 AM
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If you want to compare addiction to a disease, understand that it is an infectious disease.

Suppose, for a moment, that your spouse has contracted a virulent, terminal disease that is contagious. Something viral. This spouse is refusing to go to the hospital for treatment, instead believing that they can beat it on their own, and use "natural" remedies, or perhaps they don't even believe they're really sick.

Are you, as their spouse, bound by those vows to stay in a house with someone who can infect you with that disease? Even though they refuse help, do you have to let them kill you, too? What about your children?

I love my husband deeply. I believe whole-heartedly in my marriage vows. But my vows said I will have and hold him, through sickness and health... not that I would live with him and sacrifice my own sanity and health no matter what.

I have to protect myself. I can't take care of him if I am fighting my own issues caused by his addictions. And more than that, I have two small children, who rely on their parents. When his actions endanger them (be they through drug abuse, alcoholism, or infectious viral disease) I have to protect THEM first.

Addiction IS an infectious disease. If I continue to allow my husband to expose my children to it, they could catch it. The insanity it causes is absolutely contagious, as every single soul here well knows... otherwise, why would we need SR at all?

I do not have to accept insanity and disease to be true to my love, my marriage, and my vows. My vows said nothing about "accept everything he gives you, no matter how unearned or cruel it may be."

Last edited by DragynLady; 10-01-2013 at 10:25 AM. Reason: "spouse", not "house"
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Old 10-01-2013, 10:36 AM
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Old 10-01-2013, 11:51 AM
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Yes, we do not have to live together!! If they cannot act in a loving non-abusive manner then they do not deserve their wonderful family.
Stealing is abusive. Neglect is abusive. Going to jail is abusive. Spending the families money on drugs is abusive. I can keep going... but I think you get the point.
I also acted in abusive behaviors. The door swings both ways.
I look at addiction as a disease because it get's worse over time. Meaning, I can never use drugs again.. because next time the consequences will be worse. It keeps me from relapsing thinking that I cannot just do this one time because I have a disease. There was something wrong with me for choosing to need drugs everyday and escape reality. That's what needs to be dealt with. The underlying reasons (maybe many) that we started to need to escape reality. Maybe just weakness... who knows??
Every disease is different.. with it's own characteristics. Yes, I agree... that it's an excuse to stay sick. It can also be a reason to never pick up again. Just saying in the most loving way possible.
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Old 10-01-2013, 03:21 PM
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I think as adults we make informed decisions. I think my marriage vows are important. If I think I have to stay with an active user because of my marriage vows then I will suffer the consequences of that choice whatever they should be. When I decided to have a child with my husband I made a choice to put her first. I can't think of any other situation where I would let a drug addict around my child. It doesn't make it okay just because he is her dad. It's unsafe and mentally unhealthy for a small child to be around that kind of chaos. I refuse to let her be second to his addiction. If I didn't have my daughter I think it would be harder to leave. He's 90 days clean and I've told him that I will not let our child feel the impact of this addiction firsthand again. The rollercoaster was so hard and confusing for her already. This is the first time in her life that her dad has been sober. So while I respect my vows my protectiveness over my daughter's well being outweighs any of that. So I'm willing to be here for the better of our marriage and the worst of his recovery but no part of active addiction.
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Old 10-01-2013, 03:26 PM
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Your questions and personal reflection are all valid and natural. All spouses of alcoholics and drug addicts struggle with these ethical questions in the beginning. And it is often the case that drug addicts and alcoholics seek out people who are inclined to sacrifice for others.

But not everyone marries an active addict. Some addictions develop slowly over the course of a long marriage. Or they develop suddenly, almost overnight, in the case of some particularly powerful drugs.

In the early days of life with an active addict, we ask ourselves the ethical questions you are pondering. We have the "space", so to speak, to do so. Because the addict is not so dangerous to us or to our loved ones.

Then as time goes on, and, in most cases, the addict becomes more unloving, unavailable, and unresponsive to his or her responsibilities in the marriage and in the family, the suffering of the spouse increases. Like a volume knob that gradually turns up.

Until one day there is no time for debating the moral ethics of self-sacrifice. Because either you've just been hit, or your child has been hit, or your child has been hurt in a car accident caused by your intoxicated spouse, or all your money in the bank has disappeared and there is no food and an eviction notice, or you have found out about the affair or affairs your intoxicated spouse has been hiding from you, or you have AIDS because of his needles.

As the suffering increases, the moral ambiguities disappear.
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Old 10-01-2013, 08:45 PM
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I've seen the devastation that addiction and cancer both cause. I've heard this comparison before and in my opinion they are 2 totally different things. I've lost family members to cancer. They WANTED to live, they WANTED to spend more time with their loved ones and see their kids grow up. They FOUGHT with everything they had until physically they couldn't fight anymore.

My AH has been blessed with great physical health and what does he do? He deliberately poisons himself with drugs. Nobody chooses to get cancer. The same can't be said for drug use. Yes, the drugs harm the body, the brain and they have horrible side effects. But I've never heard of anyone seeking to get another hit of cancer, or paying to actually get it. On the contrary, they try to do everything they can to get rid of it.
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Old 10-01-2013, 09:10 PM
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Yes sara I agree!!! But the answer to solve addiction is simple:
Dont pick up and dont use.
Just as recently as this summer I fooled myself, my spouse and my family into believing I had a disease. I really thought I was incapable of making the choice not to use. That just is a lie from the devil.
I still have cravings every day. I still want heroin.
I choose not to. I dont think a few extra brain cells makes it a disease.

A good friend of mne told me that some people hide behind their vows. I think thats true. I think I hide behind mine.
I dont think that a spouse should have to divorce their active addict, but I dont think they have to live with them either.
If D does well during his prison sentence, I still dont want him to come home. I find out a week from thursday how many years he will be gone. I still want him to go back to the SA or Teen Challenge when he gets out. I cant imagine having to live in that chaos again. Maybe after 6-12 months rehab I will want us to be in separate apartments again.
I cant believe I maried the kid maybe I will divorce him while he is in... but if I dont. He needs to be sober 2 years on the outside before he can come home.
I know it seems like forever. I miss him. But it just is what it is.
I can be a nun in the meantime. I mean me and jesus have been hanging out this last month or two and hes a really sweet guy =] so loving and kind.... hahahaha
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Old 10-02-2013, 12:53 AM
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Hi Onenight

You describing how your husband is treating you and your pregnancy sounds just like the way my AH treated me during my pregnancies. They are good guys with bad habits, to stick it out for bad or worse is entirely up to you. I hope that in your case things will improve. My AH moved on from cocaine onto Meth and he was using all through my second pregnancy (whilst being kind and taking care of me etc.) and I did not even know, he was still using. I really sincerely hope that things turn out differently for you and your husband. In the end of the day I asked myself what obligation is more important my obligation to my husband and my marriage vows or the obligation that I have to provide a stable and secure home to my children. I chose to stay obligated to my kids because unlike him they have got no choice in the matter they are just innocent bystanders. If my husband seeks help and really wants to get himself sober and healthy then I will support him in that without of course enabling him thus I am still obligated to my marriage vows I am there for him in his bad times. The only times that I cannot be there for him is when he choses to stay in active addiction and when the safety of me and my children are being threatened. Then I cannot support him at all, keep in mind also that addiction is a progressive disease in many instances it gets worse over time when the A does not want treatment or is not seeking treatment.
I think my role is to be a good mom and take care of my kids first and then to be a supporting wife when my AH is in Active recovery. If my AH was a diabetic and not seeking treatment and deliberately stuffing himself with sugar etc. then I would most likely also have detached because it becomes too painful to watch a loved one killing themselves. But if he got treatment and was actively looking for ways to control his diabetes by diet, exercise and medicine I would support him all the way. Personally I think addiction is a self inflicted illness and only the sick person can control the outcome of the illness.

A
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Old 10-02-2013, 03:44 AM
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It is funny that you have posted this. It has been on my mind all week. I to have struggled with the "in sickness and health" thing. Although from my point of view I have to say that I do not believe that God wants me to live like this. He doesn't want my children who are totally innocent to live in a house full of meth pipes ect....
I don't buy into the addiction as a disease bit. It is a choice that he chose to put that pipe in his mouth the first time. It is more like WE (the family) have the disease. He was literally killing me physically. I was 39 and my dr was worried I was on the verge of a stroke. I had to get out. Just to survive. I did not choose this disease. Just like people do not choose to get cancer.
I know that my AH also threw in my face every time he had the chance that I was not in the best mental health when my grandpa died. Yes, i was depressed. Yes, I did not function as a normal person. Yes, I should have had help. And he throws it in my face that he stuck it out with me. The difference. If he would have said I am taking you to get help I would have ran at the chance.
When I beg him to get help. His response to me even months after I left was, I will do ANY thing you want me to do to fix this BUT. I WILL NEVER GO TO REHAB. That was it for me. In a marriage I think there has to be give and take on both parties. I won't give if he won't in order to save our lives and the lives of his children.....
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Old 10-02-2013, 04:28 AM
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Just my own thoughts, if you compare alcoholism with say diabetes, more as a metabolic condition, you would be horrified if your spouse refused treatment and even acted in a way to make things worse. That doesn't mean you'd leave him, but you would have the right to be very angry at him because it's not just himself he is hurting.
But say the metabolic condition had the further effect of causing him to steal, have harmful mood changes, lie, check out of your marriage. Would you accept that his failure to treat it with everything going was a choice that put your marriage second?
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Old 10-02-2013, 05:51 AM
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I believe addiction is like a disease when a person is in active addiction; there is loss of ability to make rational decisions regarding their health and welfare because thought processes are altered, and drug use is viewed as necessary for survival. Denial is a symptom of addiction and works to prevent the person from seeking medical help. Because addiction is a disease of the mind, I believe it needs to be treated by professionals in most cases, under doctors supervision.

As a wife, I believe it is my responsibility to make ample attempt to get my husband the proper medical care needed. The best medical care for him specifically. I feel its also my responsibility to educate myself on addiction, all aspects including treatment - just as I would do if he was suffering from cancer, or any other life threatening medical problem.

The success of getting someone into treatment varies of course, and some of it depends on what drugs are being used, how far addiction has advanced. This is why it is recommended by National Institute of Drug Abuse that people receive treatment as soon as possible. IT is a myth that addicts need to hit rock bottom, it is also a myth that forced treatment is not effective. From National Institute of Drug Abuse:

People with untreated addictions frequently say that there is nothing wrong with them; they falsely believe that they can control their drug or alcohol use. They strongly resist the notion that they need treatment, even when family members or friends believe otherwise. That's why it may be tempting to take a hands-off approach to the problem, hoping that your relative or friend's drug or alcohol problem will just go away - that he or she is just going through a phase and will get better with time. Or you may decide that treatment won't help because your addicted friend or relative doesn't want to make a change. But both of these beliefs are myths that can lead to a more severe addiction and to greater family disruption.

Addiction is a progressive disorder -it gets worse over time. The sooner a person receives treatment for addiction, the greater the chances for long-term recovery. Further, experts know that forced, or mandated, treatment can be successful. In fact, most people receiving treatment for addiction are getting help because they were forced into it by family or friends, employers or the criminal justice system.

In addition, there are non-confrontational methods of intervention, such as CRAFT (community reinforcement and family training) when done properly, are proven to have an approximate 67% success rate at getting people into treatment.
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So we get as many chances at this as we wish to take in helping our spouse enter treatment and find recovery. Having said all that, I do believe in the oxygen mask rule. We have to take care of ourselves first, or we wont be able to help anyone else. We also have a responsibility to protect our children, and I believe our addicted spouse (if in a right mind) would agree this also comes first. So in the end, its a balancing act, just as it is for other families who deal with chronic illness.

A lot of this also depends on the stage of addiction, symptoms in early addiction are typically less severe than in advanced addiction from what I understand.

My husband was never violent, or running around the house screaming and causing turmoil, I never even saw him using. He maintained his career, provided for his family, paid his bills. He also lied, spent a lot of money, stayed out late with his friends getting high. He never got to the stage of addiction many people have depicted in their posts. My husband went into treatment without much argument finally. He wanted to get better, he wanted to be a good father to our son, he wanted to be a good husband, he wanted to progress in his career (his words). He doesn’t want to relapse, and has worked very hard these past 17 months to strengthen himself against it.

So I also think when attempts at recovery happen, as a wife, if I wish to continue the relationship, then I need to support his recovery just as I would support his recovery from any other illness. Yes there are sacrifices, and there is discomfort, and sometimes giving more than you get, and for me that was ok – it is what I would have done if he had any other kind of illness and was in recovery. I didn’t feel addiction should be split apart from what I would offer him in terms of my support.

In your post, yes I agree – if your husband had posted things he had been doing for you and it was assumed it was because you were an addict, I think he would have been told by some: he was codependent, and he was enabling you (even during recovery), you were using him, and on and on. But if he posted and said it was because of a pregnancy then well ok, he is doing great and its his place to do those things. This is of course my opinion only. There is a different view to addiction, and there is stigma attached unfortunately.
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Old 10-03-2013, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by EnglishGarden View Post
Your questions and personal reflection are all valid and natural. All spouses of alcoholics and drug addicts struggle with these ethical questions in the beginning. And it is often the case that drug addicts and alcoholics seek out people who are inclined to sacrifice for others.

But not everyone marries an active addict. Some addictions develop slowly over the course of a long marriage. Or they develop suddenly, almost overnight, in the case of some particularly powerful drugs.

In the early days of life with an active addict, we ask ourselves the ethical questions you are pondering. We have the "space", so to speak, to do so. Because the addict is not so dangerous to us or to our loved ones.

Then as time goes on, and, in most cases, the addict becomes more unloving, unavailable, and unresponsive to his or her responsibilities in the marriage and in the family, the suffering of the spouse increases. Like a volume knob that gradually turns up.

Until one day there is no time for debating the moral ethics of self-sacrifice. Because either you've just been hit, or your child has been hit, or your child has been hurt in a car accident caused by your intoxicated spouse, or all your money in the bank has disappeared and there is no food and an eviction notice, or you have found out about the affair or affairs your intoxicated spouse has been hiding from you, or you have AIDS because of his needles.

As the suffering increases, the moral ambiguities disappear.
This makes it sound like the progression cant be stopped to me, and Ive never heard that to be true.
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Old 10-03-2013, 01:54 PM
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Yours is the first post Ive seen that mentioned marriage, or vows and how we feel about it. I dont think I can say anything better than what Allforcnm said so I wont bother to reply, but thanks for putting the topic out here.
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