Boundaries or the lack thereof
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Join Date: Sep 2013
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Boundaries or the lack thereof
Pacing and cleaning as he snores thinking about boundaries.
I'm actually really upset.
Someone gave him (sold him ?, probably) a prescription stimulant yesterday.
Pills have always been an occasional thing for him (to the best of my knowledge). Its not right. I'm not condoning it but in all honesty its what he is doing to himself with alcohol that worries me right now.
After his recent two week dry spell I have been working very very hard at not commenting on his drinking. I just let him get on with it. If he's early on in a session I might talk with him. If he's sloppy drunk I let him get on with it. Our money is independent and I know one of my boundaries is not handing over any more cash. That hasn't actually came up yet but it will. I thought I had also (maybe just in my head) formed some sort of boundary about lies and honesty.
After his dry spell he had said no more pills. I don't know that I believed it or disbelieved it. I've read lots about the lying/false promises being part of the disease and I don't know that I truly had expectations either way. Like I said it was rare for anything to do with pills to come up.
Sorry this is rambling.
What has really , really got me is when he came in he said "Someone offered me Ritalin today but I said no." He didn't get the pat on the back he was looking for (he was on his second beer) I just kind of ignored it. Anyway hours later whilst he is still babbling away after a 12 hour shift it clicked in my head and I said (wrong I know) "you took the ritalin didn't you ?" and he said yes. It is this lie that has me bothered. That he came in and created a falsehood , even planted the seed, for no reason that I can see. He has never done this before (that I know of) It is making me feel quite sick.
I said "I hope its a fantastic high because we could have had a future and you might just have thrown it away over one scabby ritalin." To which he starting quacking about me being the ridiculous one if that happened. Then a diatribe about feeling like he was in treatment every time he came home recently. I left him to it and he is sleeping now.
At first I thought , that's it we're done , I'm finished, I deserve an honest relationship but already I'm thinking I don't want to end it. That I can't pick and choose what I detach from. That if I let what he does to his body be his business it will be okay. But it won't because now I will never know what is truth and what is lie and I don't think I can live with that.
I'm really stuck today.
I'm actually really upset.
Someone gave him (sold him ?, probably) a prescription stimulant yesterday.
Pills have always been an occasional thing for him (to the best of my knowledge). Its not right. I'm not condoning it but in all honesty its what he is doing to himself with alcohol that worries me right now.
After his recent two week dry spell I have been working very very hard at not commenting on his drinking. I just let him get on with it. If he's early on in a session I might talk with him. If he's sloppy drunk I let him get on with it. Our money is independent and I know one of my boundaries is not handing over any more cash. That hasn't actually came up yet but it will. I thought I had also (maybe just in my head) formed some sort of boundary about lies and honesty.
After his dry spell he had said no more pills. I don't know that I believed it or disbelieved it. I've read lots about the lying/false promises being part of the disease and I don't know that I truly had expectations either way. Like I said it was rare for anything to do with pills to come up.
Sorry this is rambling.
What has really , really got me is when he came in he said "Someone offered me Ritalin today but I said no." He didn't get the pat on the back he was looking for (he was on his second beer) I just kind of ignored it. Anyway hours later whilst he is still babbling away after a 12 hour shift it clicked in my head and I said (wrong I know) "you took the ritalin didn't you ?" and he said yes. It is this lie that has me bothered. That he came in and created a falsehood , even planted the seed, for no reason that I can see. He has never done this before (that I know of) It is making me feel quite sick.
I said "I hope its a fantastic high because we could have had a future and you might just have thrown it away over one scabby ritalin." To which he starting quacking about me being the ridiculous one if that happened. Then a diatribe about feeling like he was in treatment every time he came home recently. I left him to it and he is sleeping now.
At first I thought , that's it we're done , I'm finished, I deserve an honest relationship but already I'm thinking I don't want to end it. That I can't pick and choose what I detach from. That if I let what he does to his body be his business it will be okay. But it won't because now I will never know what is truth and what is lie and I don't think I can live with that.
I'm really stuck today.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
Originally Posted by jessicajoe 
At first I thought , that's it we're done , I'm finished, I deserve an honest relationship but already I'm thinking I don't want to end it. That I can't pick and choose what I detach from. That if I let what he does to his body be his business it will be okay. But it won't because now I will never know what is truth and what is lie and I don't think I can live with that. I'm really stuck today.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,295
Yuck. He came home, took you for a ride emotionally, lied, took the Ritalin anyway, and on some level must find this amusing for himself.
Why otherwise offer the information?
He wants to show you that you don't control him. He did that very effectively.
He's also showing you that if you want him, you will have to let go of controlling attempts.
This is where you give in. You relinquish control. You accept you have no control over him.
Once you've done that, you can find out if you can live with his choices, and that will help you to make your own.
Live for a little while accepting that he is going to use. Simply assume he is using on any given day without proof because it's not necessary.
How do you feel?
How do you feel about the relationship?
Accept that if you ask, he is going to lie.
Let it ride this way for awhile. This life with him in which you have no control over his actions.
It will help you see that his choices are his, and yours are yours.
It's not him that's been cornered, he's effectively cornered you. Calling your bluff.
But what you need is inner knowledge, from yourself, about how you would feel living with him day to day with the knowledge that you have no control over him, and if the relationship works, simply as it is.
Why otherwise offer the information?
He wants to show you that you don't control him. He did that very effectively.
He's also showing you that if you want him, you will have to let go of controlling attempts.
This is where you give in. You relinquish control. You accept you have no control over him.
Once you've done that, you can find out if you can live with his choices, and that will help you to make your own.
Live for a little while accepting that he is going to use. Simply assume he is using on any given day without proof because it's not necessary.
How do you feel?
How do you feel about the relationship?
Accept that if you ask, he is going to lie.
Let it ride this way for awhile. This life with him in which you have no control over his actions.
It will help you see that his choices are his, and yours are yours.
It's not him that's been cornered, he's effectively cornered you. Calling your bluff.
But what you need is inner knowledge, from yourself, about how you would feel living with him day to day with the knowledge that you have no control over him, and if the relationship works, simply as it is.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 182
Honeypig
I'm holding on to the dream of what our future might have been
He's quacking a lot about being an alcoholic. He had that two week dry spell for the first time. He's talking about things like if he stopped and got DTs he would start again. He read a recovery book. (None of this is enough but its all new and in my codie mind I think he's one step closer to recovery than ever before and I want to wait around and see)
I'm thinking maybe I could detach and still get to have him in my life.
I'm scared that I will never feel for anyone what I have felt (yeah past tense) for him and think some of him is better than none of him.
I know its not going to get better but it doesn't feel bad enough yet.
I live in a fantasy world.
Take your pick.
I'm holding on to the dream of what our future might have been
He's quacking a lot about being an alcoholic. He had that two week dry spell for the first time. He's talking about things like if he stopped and got DTs he would start again. He read a recovery book. (None of this is enough but its all new and in my codie mind I think he's one step closer to recovery than ever before and I want to wait around and see)
I'm thinking maybe I could detach and still get to have him in my life.
I'm scared that I will never feel for anyone what I have felt (yeah past tense) for him and think some of him is better than none of him.
I know its not going to get better but it doesn't feel bad enough yet.
I live in a fantasy world.
Take your pick.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
Originally Posted by jessicajoe
At first I thought , that's it we're done , I'm finished, I deserve an honest relationship but already I'm thinking I don't want to end it. That I can't pick and choose what I detach from. That if I let what he does to his body be his business it will be okay. But it won't because now I will never know what is truth and what is lie and I don't think I can live with that.
I'm really stuck today.
I'm really stuck today.
problem may be
it takes (two willing ones) to even stand a chance
and that still may be a small chance
I prefer Christian counseling at one of the local churches (no charge)
it's good if both parties are believers
to have God involved in these matters
at least find some help and support for yourself somewhere
Mountainman
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 182
BlueSkies
I was typing my response to honeypig when you replied. What you suggest is absolutely the best plan. Its near what I was trying to do with the drinking before this came up. Thank you. I just wish I could do it without thinking some sort of miracle was just around the corner.
Sorry if thats dramatic. I'm tired and upset.
I was typing my response to honeypig when you replied. What you suggest is absolutely the best plan. Its near what I was trying to do with the drinking before this came up. Thank you. I just wish I could do it without thinking some sort of miracle was just around the corner.
Sorry if thats dramatic. I'm tired and upset.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
Originally Posted by jessicajoe
Honeypig
I'm holding on to the dream of what our future might have been
He's quacking a lot about being an alcoholic. He had that two week dry spell for the first time. He's talking about things like if he stopped and got DTs he would start again. He read a recovery book. (None of this is enough but its all new and in my codie mind I think he's one step closer to recovery than ever before and I want to wait around and see)
I'm thinking maybe I could detach and still get to have him in my life.
I'm scared that I will never feel for anyone what I have felt (yeah past tense) for him and think some of him is better than none of him.
I know its not going to get better but it doesn't feel bad enough yet.
I live in a fantasy world.
Take your pick.
I'm holding on to the dream of what our future might have been
He's quacking a lot about being an alcoholic. He had that two week dry spell for the first time. He's talking about things like if he stopped and got DTs he would start again. He read a recovery book. (None of this is enough but its all new and in my codie mind I think he's one step closer to recovery than ever before and I want to wait around and see)
I'm thinking maybe I could detach and still get to have him in my life.
I'm scared that I will never feel for anyone what I have felt (yeah past tense) for him and think some of him is better than none of him.
I know its not going to get better but it doesn't feel bad enough yet.
I live in a fantasy world.
Take your pick.
And I agree, blueskies had a GREAT solution for now. As time goes by, you'll know what you know...
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,295
Jessica, I also think you could surround yourself with as many healthy non users, non liars, as often as possible.
It helps to keep yourself on the stronger, saner, side of things, and not get pulled down into the muck.
I sincerely believe that we have to have healthy connections or else we get sicker instead of better.
You need support, whether it be individual counseling or alanon or both.
I think we can get pulled down easily and feel too helpless without it.
It helps to keep yourself on the stronger, saner, side of things, and not get pulled down into the muck.
I sincerely believe that we have to have healthy connections or else we get sicker instead of better.
You need support, whether it be individual counseling or alanon or both.
I think we can get pulled down easily and feel too helpless without it.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
jessicajoe, detachment is an excellent tool to help YOU gain some personal space and breathing room away from the madness of the addiction. But, detachment, alone, doesn't stop addiction and doesn't repair a toxic relationship.
It is what you do with that breathing space, for yourself, that matters. It gives you some space to take control of your own life. To connect with yourself; to clarify your thinking; to grow stronger.
Detachment--what a wonderful and necessary tool. Just don't expect to build a whole with just a hammer as the only tool.
Basically, I am in agreement with Blueskies--just different words...LOL...
dandylion
It is what you do with that breathing space, for yourself, that matters. It gives you some space to take control of your own life. To connect with yourself; to clarify your thinking; to grow stronger.
Detachment--what a wonderful and necessary tool. Just don't expect to build a whole with just a hammer as the only tool.
Basically, I am in agreement with Blueskies--just different words...LOL...
dandylion
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 182
Thanks Dandylion
I thought it read just fine as "build a whole"
But you're right of course. I do have an idea that, if everything I'm reading about progression is true, I'm getting nearer to the edge of what I could possibly accept as "doable" relationship wise.
I think I see detachment as something that might buy me some time, let me get a bit stronger, either till its so bad I have to acknowledge its time or he actually decides recovery is for him(yeah yeah I know but a girl can dream)
Maybe a brace rather than a hammer ?
I thought it read just fine as "build a whole"
But you're right of course. I do have an idea that, if everything I'm reading about progression is true, I'm getting nearer to the edge of what I could possibly accept as "doable" relationship wise.
I think I see detachment as something that might buy me some time, let me get a bit stronger, either till its so bad I have to acknowledge its time or he actually decides recovery is for him(yeah yeah I know but a girl can dream)
Maybe a brace rather than a hammer ?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 350
Actions tell the truth, don't they?
I set boundaries and when they are violated, I have two choices: co-sign the bullsheet or stick to my boundaries - they are in place to protect me and my kids, no?
I'm a mugawump - I sit on the fence between the alcoholic and the co-dependent because I'm both - I got my mug over one side and my wump over the other. I must admit, in my next life, I'm coming back as just a codependent, so I can drink AND go to meetings!
I loved it when my enabler didn't stick to her boundaries. It meant I could continue with my drinking and drugging, she'd continue to pay the bills - perfect - a joker's dream. I was the joker.
But in this last relationship, I was the co-dependent. I've really had to add some stuff to my amends list, my character defect list, etc. - but I LOVE my boundaries now!
I spoke to her the other day - she was saying that her new codependent significant other (CO-SO) was ticked off because she got into the CO-SO's pills.
Yep! I'm FREE!! That ain't me anymore and never again.
Please, don't get me wrong, I'm not bragging. I came to Al-anon to fix stuff and I learned I was what needed fixing - the story of my life! And I'm free!
I'm free from the amusement park - the roller coaster, the merry-go-round, the fun house, the scary rides and the ones that flip you upside down and all around that leave you spinning, wondering why you thought a day at the park would be fun (again).
Boundaries.
I have six ducks - no, real ducks
and four were pinioned when they were born - their wings were broken as chicks so they couldn't fly. i didn't do that - it was done before I got them. These last two can fly, no reason they can't - but they don't - they've never seen another duck fly before, so they don't fly.
We can fly, did you know that?
Al-anon has taught me to fly.
I hope we all learn to fly.
How does one become a butterfly? You have to want to fly so much you are willing to give up being a caterpillar.
I set boundaries and when they are violated, I have two choices: co-sign the bullsheet or stick to my boundaries - they are in place to protect me and my kids, no?
I'm a mugawump - I sit on the fence between the alcoholic and the co-dependent because I'm both - I got my mug over one side and my wump over the other. I must admit, in my next life, I'm coming back as just a codependent, so I can drink AND go to meetings!
I loved it when my enabler didn't stick to her boundaries. It meant I could continue with my drinking and drugging, she'd continue to pay the bills - perfect - a joker's dream. I was the joker.
But in this last relationship, I was the co-dependent. I've really had to add some stuff to my amends list, my character defect list, etc. - but I LOVE my boundaries now!
I spoke to her the other day - she was saying that her new codependent significant other (CO-SO) was ticked off because she got into the CO-SO's pills.
Yep! I'm FREE!! That ain't me anymore and never again.
Please, don't get me wrong, I'm not bragging. I came to Al-anon to fix stuff and I learned I was what needed fixing - the story of my life! And I'm free!
I'm free from the amusement park - the roller coaster, the merry-go-round, the fun house, the scary rides and the ones that flip you upside down and all around that leave you spinning, wondering why you thought a day at the park would be fun (again).
Boundaries.
I have six ducks - no, real ducks
and four were pinioned when they were born - their wings were broken as chicks so they couldn't fly. i didn't do that - it was done before I got them. These last two can fly, no reason they can't - but they don't - they've never seen another duck fly before, so they don't fly.We can fly, did you know that?
Al-anon has taught me to fly.
I hope we all learn to fly.
How does one become a butterfly? You have to want to fly so much you are willing to give up being a caterpillar.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Originally Posted by Johnny152
Actions tell the truth, don't they?
I loved it when my enabler didn't stick to her boundaries. It meant I could continue with my drinking and drugging, she'd continue to pay the bills - perfect - a joker's dream. I was the joker.
I loved it when my enabler didn't stick to her boundaries. It meant I could continue with my drinking and drugging, she'd continue to pay the bills - perfect - a joker's dream. I was the joker.
Needed to hear that, today.
The rest was damn fine, too.
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