Having a Codependent Narcissist Parent (it does effect our relationship choices)
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Having a Codependent Narcissist Parent (it does effect our relationship choices)
This may be slightly OT but I don't think so.....what I'm learning is that this is what led me to my XAH and what causes a lot of my adult anxiety - these things need resolved). Also we can recognize that this is something that can lead us to have some traits of this behavior we can change to stop the cycle.
One of the sad realizations I've come to in therapy is that my Mom is a narcissist. Basically she is unable of expressing empathy or giving unconditional love. This type of thing affects kids well into adulthood and especially affects their relationships (as a daughter of a narcissist it is not at all uncommon that we choose relationships with emotionally unavailable men who are often addicts or alcoholics). Daughters of narcissists become either become overachievers who try to value themselves on what they do rather than who they are or become self sabotaging by giving up because they feel they can never please the narcissist (they can't btw).
It took me a long time to accept and while recovery is possible it inovolves going back, accepting my mother is a narcissist, feeling the emotions of what happened to me (narcissistic mothers train us to repress feelings to prevent being shamed or humiliated) and then to psychologically separate (not necessarily physically but in my case I have), grieve the loss, work on my authentic self and examine any narcissistic traits I may have picked up to stop the cycle.
Here is a list of characteristics of a narcissistic mother - there are a lot more details and explanation at the link (https://sites.google.com/site/harpyschild/):
(Some of the things in the article describe my mother so accurately it gives chills)
There are a lot more listed (I think 23 total) but I didn't want to quote much more...I've been reading a lot of books about this and one of the additional characteristics I see often is that the narcissistic mother cares about image above all else - it's how you look and how others view you based on what you do, it's not who you are).
These books go on to say how this affects us (the children of narcissists) as adults (including trouble with relationships - bad pickers, choosing emotionally unavailable men - often addicts/alcoholics...and often getting in codependent relationships addict related or not)....then there is a path of recovery. I was struck by some of the similarities to Alanon including inner child work.
This all personally applies to my situation but I thought it might help others too so I posted - sorry it's so long.
There are a lot of good books on the topic just google "narcissistic mothers and their daughters".
One of the sad realizations I've come to in therapy is that my Mom is a narcissist. Basically she is unable of expressing empathy or giving unconditional love. This type of thing affects kids well into adulthood and especially affects their relationships (as a daughter of a narcissist it is not at all uncommon that we choose relationships with emotionally unavailable men who are often addicts or alcoholics). Daughters of narcissists become either become overachievers who try to value themselves on what they do rather than who they are or become self sabotaging by giving up because they feel they can never please the narcissist (they can't btw).
It took me a long time to accept and while recovery is possible it inovolves going back, accepting my mother is a narcissist, feeling the emotions of what happened to me (narcissistic mothers train us to repress feelings to prevent being shamed or humiliated) and then to psychologically separate (not necessarily physically but in my case I have), grieve the loss, work on my authentic self and examine any narcissistic traits I may have picked up to stop the cycle.
Here is a list of characteristics of a narcissistic mother - there are a lot more details and explanation at the link (https://sites.google.com/site/harpyschild/):
(Some of the things in the article describe my mother so accurately it gives chills)
1. Everything she does is deniable. There is always a facile excuse or an explanation. Cruelties are couched in loving terms. Aggressive and hostile acts are paraded as thoughtfulness. Selfish manipulations are presented as gifts. Criticism and slander is slyly disguised as concern. She only wants what is best for you. She only wants to help you.
She rarely says right out that she thinks you’re inadequate....
(more at link)
2. She violates your boundaries. You feel like an extension of her. Your property is given away without your consent, sometimes in front of you. Your property may be repossessed and no reason given other than that it was never yours. Your time is committed without consulting you, and opinions purported to be yours are expressed for you. (She LOVES going to the fair! He would never want anything like that. She wouldn’t like kumquats.) You are discussed in your presence as though you are not there. She keeps tabs on your bodily functions and humiliates you by divulging the information she gleans, especially when it can be used to demonstrate her devotion and highlight her martyrdom to your needs (“Mike had that problem with frequent urination too, only his was much worse. I was so worried about him!”) You have never known what it is like to have privacy in the bathroom or in your bedroom, and she goes through your things regularly. She asks nosy questions, and snoops into your email/letters/diary/conversations. She will want to dig into your feelings, particularly painful ones and is always looking for negative information on you which can be used against you. She does things against your expressed wishes frequently. All of this is done without seeming embarrassment or thought.
(more at link)
3. She favoritizes. Narcissistic mothers commonly choose one (sometimes more) child to be the golden child and one (sometimes more) to be the scapegoat. (edit: I was an only child so this one didn't personally apply)
(more at link)
4. She undermines. Your accomplishments are acknowledged only to the extent that she can take credit for them. Any success or accomplishment for which she cannot take credit is ignored or diminished. Any time you are to be center stage and there is no opportunity for her to be the center of attention, she will try to prevent the occasion altogether, or she doesn’t come, or she leaves early, or she acts like it’s no big deal, or she steals the spotlight or she slips in little wounding comments about how much better someone else did or how what you did wasn’t as much as you could have done or as you think it is. She undermines you by picking fights with you or being especially unpleasant just before you have to make a major effort. She acts put out if she has to do anything to support your opportunities or will outright refuse to do even small things in support of you. She will be nasty to you about things that are peripherally connected with your successes so that you find your joy in what you’ve done is tarnished, without her ever saying anything directly about it. No matter what your success, she has to take you down a peg about it.
5. She demeans, criticizes and denigrates. She lets you know in all sorts of little ways that she thinks less of you than she does of your siblings or of other people in general. If you complain about mistreatment by someone else, she will take that person’s side even if she doesn’t know them at all. She doesn’t care about those people or the justice of your complaints. She just wants to let you know that you’re never right.
She will deliver generalized barbs that are almost impossible to rebut (always in a loving, caring tone): “You were always difficult” “You can be very difficult to love” “You never seemed to be able to finish anything” “You were very hard to live with” “You’re always causing trouble” “No one could put up with the things you do.” She will deliver slams in a sidelong way - for example she’ll complain about how “no one” loves her, does anything for her, or cares about her, or she’ll complain that “everyone” is so selfish, when you’re the only person in the room. As always, this combines criticism with deniability.
(more at link)
6. She makes you look crazy. If you try to confront her about something she’s done, she’ll tell you that you have “a very vivid imagination” (this is a phrase commonly used by abusers of all sorts to invalidate your experience of their abuse) that you don’t know what you’re talking about, or that she has no idea what you’re talking about. She will claim not to remember even very memorable events, flatly denying they ever happened, nor will she ever acknowledge any possibility that she might have forgotten. This is an extremely aggressive and exceptionally infuriating tactic called “gaslighting,” common to abusers of all kinds. Your perceptions of reality are continually undermined so that you end up without any confidence in your intuition, your memory or your powers of reasoning. This makes you a much better victim for the abuser.
Narcissists gaslight routinely.
(more at link)
She has simultaneously absolved herself of any responsibility for your obvious antipathy towards her, implied that it’s something fundamentally wrong with you that makes you angry with her, and undermined your credibility with her listeners. She plays the role of the doting mother so perfectly that no one will believe you.
(more at link)
7. She’s envious. Any time you get something nice she’s angry and envious and her envy will be apparent when she admires whatever it is. (more at link)
8. She’s a liar in too many ways to count. Any time she talks about something that has emotional significance for her, it’s a fair bet that she’s lying. Lying is one way that she creates conflict in the relationships and lives of those around her - she’ll lie to them about what other people have said, what they’ve done, or how they feel. She’ll lie about her relationship with them, about your behavior or about your situation in order to inflate herself and to undermine your credibility.
The narcissist is very careful about how she lies. To outsiders she’ll lie thoughtfully and deliberately, always in a way that can be covered up if she’s confronted with her lie. She spins what you said rather than makes something up wholesale. She puts dishonest interpretations on things you actually did. If she’s recently done something particularly egregious she may engage in preventative lying: she lies in advance to discount what you might say before you even say it. Then when you talk about what she did you’ll be cut off with “I already know all about it…your mother told me... (self-justifications and lies).”
(more at link)
9. She has to be the center of attention all the time. This need is a defining trait of narcissists and particularly of narcissistic mothers for whom their children exist to be sources of attention and adoration. Narcissistic mothers love to be waited on and often pepper their children with little requests.
(more at link)
10. She manipulates your emotions in order to feed on your pain. This exceptionally sick and bizarre behavior is so common among narcissistic mothers that their children often call them “emotional vampires.” Some of this emotional feeding comes in the form of pure sadism. She does and says things just to be wounding or she engages in tormenting teasing or she needles you about things you’re sensitive about, all the while a smile plays over her lips. She may have taken you to scary movies or told you horrifying stories, then mocked you for being a baby when you cried. She will slip a wounding comment into conversation and smile delightedly into your hurt face. You can hear the laughter in her voice as she pressures you or says distressing things to you. Later she’ll gloat over how much she upset you, gaily telling other people that you’re so much fun to tease, and recruiting others to share in her amusement. .
(more at link)
11. She’s selfish and willful. She always makes sure she has the best of everything. She insists on having her own way all the time and she will ruthlessly, manipulatively pursue it, even if what she wants isn’t worth all the effort she’s putting into it and even if that effort goes far beyond normal behavior. She will make a huge effort to get something you denied her, even if it was entirely your right to do so and even if her demand was selfish and unreasonable. If you tell her she cannot bring her friends to your party she will show up with them anyway, and she will have told them that they were invited so that you either have to give in, or be the bad guy to these poor dupes on your doorstep. If you tell her she can’t come over to your house tonight she’ll call your spouse and try get him or her to agree that she can, and to not say anything to you about it because it’s a “surprise.” She has to show you that you can’t tell her “no.”
(more at link)
12. She’s self-absorbed. Her feelings, needs and wants are very important; yours are insignificant to the point that her least whim takes precedence over your most basic needs. Her problems deserve your immediate and full attention; yours are brushed aside.
(more at link)
13. She is insanely defensive and is extremely sensitive to any criticism.....more here...... If you refuse her nosy request to let her read the letter you got she shouts about how unappreciative you are and how hard she has it. She has no sense of perspective or separation and she can’t let anything go.
14. She is rejecting. She doesn't love you, she doesn't care about you and she doesn't want you around. That message is an extremely ferocious weapon in the arsenal of the emotionally abusive mother, because human children are natively wired to understand: If your mother rejects you, you will die. Despite, or perhaps because of the brutality of that weapon, the narcissistic mother utilizes rejection frequently, and it is often an essential element of other abuses. You stand in the rain and the cold for an hour, waiting to be picked up, while the golden children are warm and safe at home. You're left home on a flimsy, manufactured excuse, while everyone else enjoys a treat. You're told that you can't speak to your father because he's sick of your bad behavior, and doesn't want to see you. (edit my mother did this to me with my teachers when I was in grade school)
The harpy's child often represses the memories of his or her mother's assaults, but rejection is such a fundamentally terrifying form of abuse, it seems to burn into memory in a way that other bad behaviors do not.
(more at link)
A few days after Christmas, I was alone with LaVonne, helping her take down the Christmas tree and pack up the Christmas ornaments. She picked up the Christmas stocking I had used since infancy and, without looking at me, handed it to me and said in a hard tone: "Do you want this? Then take it with you." I had never spent Christmas anywhere other than in her house and I lived in rental housing with its attendant frequent moves. What was I going to do with the Christmas stocking? As I left her house, I dropped it in her trash can. (edit: I relate to this - my childhood "stuff" was in here way so she sent it to me via mail in case I wanted it!....my baby shoes etc)
(this is a big one lots of good stories at link)
15. She terrorized. All abusers use fear to control their victims, and your narcissistic mother used it ruthlessly to train you. Narcissists teach you to beware their wrath even when they aren’t present. The only alternative is constant placation. If you give her everything she wants all the time, you might be spared. If you don’t, the punishments will come. Even adult children of narcissists still feel that carefully inculcated fear. Your narcissistic mother can turn it on with a silence or a look that tells the child in you she’s thinking about how she’s going to get even.
(there is a lot of really good info here - more at link)
16. She’s infantile and petty. Narcissistic mothers are often simply childish. If you refuse to let her manipulate you into doing something, she will cry that you don’t love her because if you loved her you would do as she wanted. If you hurt her feelings she will aggressively whine to you that you’ll be sorry when she’s dead that you didn’t treat her better.
(more at link)
17. She “parentifies.” She shed her responsibilities to you as soon as she was able, leaving you to take care of yourself as best you could. She denied you medical care, adequate clothing, necessary transportation or basic comforts that she would never have considered giving up herself. (edit - this one didn't apply to me so much)....more at link
(edit: this example I personally relate to) My father died when I was 17. At the time, my brother was 19 and my younger sister was 13. My mother felt just terrible for herself and availed herself frequently of the captive audience we represented. She cried on my shoulder, she talked about how unfair it was that my father's death had robbed her of her entitlements ("He was going to retire at 55 and we were going to travel!"), she took us out to the cemetery and held little ceremonies. For the final act of the cemetery drama, she would step onto my father's grave, knead it with her feet, and wail "Oh Eddie! How could you leave me!" followed by an hour of sobbing and self-pity. (edit: at 14 when my father passed my mother cried because "she was never going to find another man and was going to be alone.")
And what about her children? I never cried for my father. I don't remember any of us children crying. We didn't even talk about our father's death with each other. It was years before I realized that we didn't cry because we knew better than to cry: it wasn't allowed. We knew the rules
(more at link)
She rarely says right out that she thinks you’re inadequate....
(more at link)
2. She violates your boundaries. You feel like an extension of her. Your property is given away without your consent, sometimes in front of you. Your property may be repossessed and no reason given other than that it was never yours. Your time is committed without consulting you, and opinions purported to be yours are expressed for you. (She LOVES going to the fair! He would never want anything like that. She wouldn’t like kumquats.) You are discussed in your presence as though you are not there. She keeps tabs on your bodily functions and humiliates you by divulging the information she gleans, especially when it can be used to demonstrate her devotion and highlight her martyrdom to your needs (“Mike had that problem with frequent urination too, only his was much worse. I was so worried about him!”) You have never known what it is like to have privacy in the bathroom or in your bedroom, and she goes through your things regularly. She asks nosy questions, and snoops into your email/letters/diary/conversations. She will want to dig into your feelings, particularly painful ones and is always looking for negative information on you which can be used against you. She does things against your expressed wishes frequently. All of this is done without seeming embarrassment or thought.
(more at link)
3. She favoritizes. Narcissistic mothers commonly choose one (sometimes more) child to be the golden child and one (sometimes more) to be the scapegoat. (edit: I was an only child so this one didn't personally apply)
(more at link)
4. She undermines. Your accomplishments are acknowledged only to the extent that she can take credit for them. Any success or accomplishment for which she cannot take credit is ignored or diminished. Any time you are to be center stage and there is no opportunity for her to be the center of attention, she will try to prevent the occasion altogether, or she doesn’t come, or she leaves early, or she acts like it’s no big deal, or she steals the spotlight or she slips in little wounding comments about how much better someone else did or how what you did wasn’t as much as you could have done or as you think it is. She undermines you by picking fights with you or being especially unpleasant just before you have to make a major effort. She acts put out if she has to do anything to support your opportunities or will outright refuse to do even small things in support of you. She will be nasty to you about things that are peripherally connected with your successes so that you find your joy in what you’ve done is tarnished, without her ever saying anything directly about it. No matter what your success, she has to take you down a peg about it.
5. She demeans, criticizes and denigrates. She lets you know in all sorts of little ways that she thinks less of you than she does of your siblings or of other people in general. If you complain about mistreatment by someone else, she will take that person’s side even if she doesn’t know them at all. She doesn’t care about those people or the justice of your complaints. She just wants to let you know that you’re never right.
She will deliver generalized barbs that are almost impossible to rebut (always in a loving, caring tone): “You were always difficult” “You can be very difficult to love” “You never seemed to be able to finish anything” “You were very hard to live with” “You’re always causing trouble” “No one could put up with the things you do.” She will deliver slams in a sidelong way - for example she’ll complain about how “no one” loves her, does anything for her, or cares about her, or she’ll complain that “everyone” is so selfish, when you’re the only person in the room. As always, this combines criticism with deniability.
(more at link)
6. She makes you look crazy. If you try to confront her about something she’s done, she’ll tell you that you have “a very vivid imagination” (this is a phrase commonly used by abusers of all sorts to invalidate your experience of their abuse) that you don’t know what you’re talking about, or that she has no idea what you’re talking about. She will claim not to remember even very memorable events, flatly denying they ever happened, nor will she ever acknowledge any possibility that she might have forgotten. This is an extremely aggressive and exceptionally infuriating tactic called “gaslighting,” common to abusers of all kinds. Your perceptions of reality are continually undermined so that you end up without any confidence in your intuition, your memory or your powers of reasoning. This makes you a much better victim for the abuser.
Narcissists gaslight routinely.
(more at link)
She has simultaneously absolved herself of any responsibility for your obvious antipathy towards her, implied that it’s something fundamentally wrong with you that makes you angry with her, and undermined your credibility with her listeners. She plays the role of the doting mother so perfectly that no one will believe you.
(more at link)
7. She’s envious. Any time you get something nice she’s angry and envious and her envy will be apparent when she admires whatever it is. (more at link)
8. She’s a liar in too many ways to count. Any time she talks about something that has emotional significance for her, it’s a fair bet that she’s lying. Lying is one way that she creates conflict in the relationships and lives of those around her - she’ll lie to them about what other people have said, what they’ve done, or how they feel. She’ll lie about her relationship with them, about your behavior or about your situation in order to inflate herself and to undermine your credibility.
The narcissist is very careful about how she lies. To outsiders she’ll lie thoughtfully and deliberately, always in a way that can be covered up if she’s confronted with her lie. She spins what you said rather than makes something up wholesale. She puts dishonest interpretations on things you actually did. If she’s recently done something particularly egregious she may engage in preventative lying: she lies in advance to discount what you might say before you even say it. Then when you talk about what she did you’ll be cut off with “I already know all about it…your mother told me... (self-justifications and lies).”
(more at link)
9. She has to be the center of attention all the time. This need is a defining trait of narcissists and particularly of narcissistic mothers for whom their children exist to be sources of attention and adoration. Narcissistic mothers love to be waited on and often pepper their children with little requests.
(more at link)
10. She manipulates your emotions in order to feed on your pain. This exceptionally sick and bizarre behavior is so common among narcissistic mothers that their children often call them “emotional vampires.” Some of this emotional feeding comes in the form of pure sadism. She does and says things just to be wounding or she engages in tormenting teasing or she needles you about things you’re sensitive about, all the while a smile plays over her lips. She may have taken you to scary movies or told you horrifying stories, then mocked you for being a baby when you cried. She will slip a wounding comment into conversation and smile delightedly into your hurt face. You can hear the laughter in her voice as she pressures you or says distressing things to you. Later she’ll gloat over how much she upset you, gaily telling other people that you’re so much fun to tease, and recruiting others to share in her amusement. .
(more at link)
11. She’s selfish and willful. She always makes sure she has the best of everything. She insists on having her own way all the time and she will ruthlessly, manipulatively pursue it, even if what she wants isn’t worth all the effort she’s putting into it and even if that effort goes far beyond normal behavior. She will make a huge effort to get something you denied her, even if it was entirely your right to do so and even if her demand was selfish and unreasonable. If you tell her she cannot bring her friends to your party she will show up with them anyway, and she will have told them that they were invited so that you either have to give in, or be the bad guy to these poor dupes on your doorstep. If you tell her she can’t come over to your house tonight she’ll call your spouse and try get him or her to agree that she can, and to not say anything to you about it because it’s a “surprise.” She has to show you that you can’t tell her “no.”
(more at link)
12. She’s self-absorbed. Her feelings, needs and wants are very important; yours are insignificant to the point that her least whim takes precedence over your most basic needs. Her problems deserve your immediate and full attention; yours are brushed aside.
(more at link)
13. She is insanely defensive and is extremely sensitive to any criticism.....more here...... If you refuse her nosy request to let her read the letter you got she shouts about how unappreciative you are and how hard she has it. She has no sense of perspective or separation and she can’t let anything go.
14. She is rejecting. She doesn't love you, she doesn't care about you and she doesn't want you around. That message is an extremely ferocious weapon in the arsenal of the emotionally abusive mother, because human children are natively wired to understand: If your mother rejects you, you will die. Despite, or perhaps because of the brutality of that weapon, the narcissistic mother utilizes rejection frequently, and it is often an essential element of other abuses. You stand in the rain and the cold for an hour, waiting to be picked up, while the golden children are warm and safe at home. You're left home on a flimsy, manufactured excuse, while everyone else enjoys a treat. You're told that you can't speak to your father because he's sick of your bad behavior, and doesn't want to see you. (edit my mother did this to me with my teachers when I was in grade school)
The harpy's child often represses the memories of his or her mother's assaults, but rejection is such a fundamentally terrifying form of abuse, it seems to burn into memory in a way that other bad behaviors do not.
(more at link)
A few days after Christmas, I was alone with LaVonne, helping her take down the Christmas tree and pack up the Christmas ornaments. She picked up the Christmas stocking I had used since infancy and, without looking at me, handed it to me and said in a hard tone: "Do you want this? Then take it with you." I had never spent Christmas anywhere other than in her house and I lived in rental housing with its attendant frequent moves. What was I going to do with the Christmas stocking? As I left her house, I dropped it in her trash can. (edit: I relate to this - my childhood "stuff" was in here way so she sent it to me via mail in case I wanted it!....my baby shoes etc)
(this is a big one lots of good stories at link)
15. She terrorized. All abusers use fear to control their victims, and your narcissistic mother used it ruthlessly to train you. Narcissists teach you to beware their wrath even when they aren’t present. The only alternative is constant placation. If you give her everything she wants all the time, you might be spared. If you don’t, the punishments will come. Even adult children of narcissists still feel that carefully inculcated fear. Your narcissistic mother can turn it on with a silence or a look that tells the child in you she’s thinking about how she’s going to get even.
(there is a lot of really good info here - more at link)
16. She’s infantile and petty. Narcissistic mothers are often simply childish. If you refuse to let her manipulate you into doing something, she will cry that you don’t love her because if you loved her you would do as she wanted. If you hurt her feelings she will aggressively whine to you that you’ll be sorry when she’s dead that you didn’t treat her better.
(more at link)
17. She “parentifies.” She shed her responsibilities to you as soon as she was able, leaving you to take care of yourself as best you could. She denied you medical care, adequate clothing, necessary transportation or basic comforts that she would never have considered giving up herself. (edit - this one didn't apply to me so much)....more at link
(edit: this example I personally relate to) My father died when I was 17. At the time, my brother was 19 and my younger sister was 13. My mother felt just terrible for herself and availed herself frequently of the captive audience we represented. She cried on my shoulder, she talked about how unfair it was that my father's death had robbed her of her entitlements ("He was going to retire at 55 and we were going to travel!"), she took us out to the cemetery and held little ceremonies. For the final act of the cemetery drama, she would step onto my father's grave, knead it with her feet, and wail "Oh Eddie! How could you leave me!" followed by an hour of sobbing and self-pity. (edit: at 14 when my father passed my mother cried because "she was never going to find another man and was going to be alone.")
And what about her children? I never cried for my father. I don't remember any of us children crying. We didn't even talk about our father's death with each other. It was years before I realized that we didn't cry because we knew better than to cry: it wasn't allowed. We knew the rules
(more at link)
These books go on to say how this affects us (the children of narcissists) as adults (including trouble with relationships - bad pickers, choosing emotionally unavailable men - often addicts/alcoholics...and often getting in codependent relationships addict related or not)....then there is a path of recovery. I was struck by some of the similarities to Alanon including inner child work.
This all personally applies to my situation but I thought it might help others too so I posted - sorry it's so long.
There are a lot of good books on the topic just google "narcissistic mothers and their daughters".
Loving a more peaceful life
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: England
Posts: 80
I don't think this is off topic. I grew up in similar circumstances. My mother and her mother are like this.
I discovered the family dynamic a few years ago via research for my job. Through doing all the work you mention I eventually realised that a lot of my relationships were toxic and I gradually left all of these.
The abuse from ex no 2 escalated while all this was going on. I think that on some level I would also end up seeing through his BS.
Both my ex husbands are addicts; I only admitted to myself the true extent of No 2's alcoholism and my codependence after leaving. I went into counselling for another reason but found it really opened my eyes to just how obnoxious my ex's behaviour is. At the time, I was still trying to maintain a friendship with him. I've ended up going no contact, though I do need to start off divorce proceedings at some point.
I don't know if I'd consider myself an overachiever but I am a perfectionist. This is something I'm working on.
Have you heard of reparenting? This is something I found very useful.
I discovered the family dynamic a few years ago via research for my job. Through doing all the work you mention I eventually realised that a lot of my relationships were toxic and I gradually left all of these.
The abuse from ex no 2 escalated while all this was going on. I think that on some level I would also end up seeing through his BS.
Both my ex husbands are addicts; I only admitted to myself the true extent of No 2's alcoholism and my codependence after leaving. I went into counselling for another reason but found it really opened my eyes to just how obnoxious my ex's behaviour is. At the time, I was still trying to maintain a friendship with him. I've ended up going no contact, though I do need to start off divorce proceedings at some point.
I don't know if I'd consider myself an overachiever but I am a perfectionist. This is something I'm working on.
Have you heard of reparenting? This is something I found very useful.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 431
I have heard of the re-parenting....this is actually something that came up in therapy, that's now what I'm working on. I went in because I was in a codependent relationship with my XAH (he wasn't controlling or abusive like my mother was but his father was and we were like two dysfunctional unemotional messes - both taught to repress emotions at all costs).....anyway where everything led was back to this relationship with my mother and accepting she was (and it's not even questionable) a narcissist - an extremely emotionally abusive one. So it's like step 1 in a different way: I am powerless over my mother's narcissism, the effects of it and everything surrounding it......then the grief processing and finally things like you mention the re-parenting (and acknowledging the inner child).
I didn't think it was off topic either but I wasn't sure...but yeah I think you're right not off topic.
I didn't think it was off topic either but I wasn't sure...but yeah I think you're right not off topic.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 407
Wow! I remember researching NPD a few years ago, as many of those points reflected my own mother's behavior. I didn't realize how it might also relate to the spouses we choose, but it makes sense. Interestingly enough, many of those points also apply to how my AH often treats our daughter. A few even apply to me.
Loving a more peaceful life
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: England
Posts: 80
I've just caught up with one of your earlier posts; I missed it the other day. I relate to a lot of what you say. It took me so long to realise my codependency because I didn't go out of my way to do everything or deal with everything for him, at least not at first. It took a long time to realise ex 2 was passive aggressive rather than just passive. The main attraction after also dealing with a narcissistic parent and ex was that he (seemingly) made no attempt to control me.
I had no addiction issues in my family but a whole other mess to deal with. I'm wondering if this is why I've never been quite sure if Al anon would be a good fit for me.
I had no addiction issues in my family but a whole other mess to deal with. I'm wondering if this is why I've never been quite sure if Al anon would be a good fit for me.
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 8,642
Aeryn,
I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes, and with gratitude for you offering this information. I am the recovering alcoholic daughter, and this article could have been a case study for my own narcissistic mother. It is so spot on, it's shocking.....down to the exact language! I need to read it again and again, and share it with my sister. For the first time in my entire life, I feel validated! Thank you.
I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes, and with gratitude for you offering this information. I am the recovering alcoholic daughter, and this article could have been a case study for my own narcissistic mother. It is so spot on, it's shocking.....down to the exact language! I need to read it again and again, and share it with my sister. For the first time in my entire life, I feel validated! Thank you.
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 431
LDT - I can relate to some of the phrases being EXACT in terms of things that were said to me. It was a real eye opener for my recovery....I actually have to grieve the things that happened in order to move on.
Tentindependent - I'm not sure if this is what you meant but I was afraid of Alanon for the longest time because I thought it would be all women and I'm afraid of most women (especially older women with children)....of course that is from my past but it was a real issue. And to give full disclosure I sought out a very co-ed Alanon meeting for my weekly meeting (all my friends there are male) - it still is the only one I feel comfortable in and those are the only people I feel comfortable talking with for now...maybe that will change as I recover but for now it's what works and that is OK.
Tentindependent - I'm not sure if this is what you meant but I was afraid of Alanon for the longest time because I thought it would be all women and I'm afraid of most women (especially older women with children)....of course that is from my past but it was a real issue. And to give full disclosure I sought out a very co-ed Alanon meeting for my weekly meeting (all my friends there are male) - it still is the only one I feel comfortable in and those are the only people I feel comfortable talking with for now...maybe that will change as I recover but for now it's what works and that is OK.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,796
There are a lot of good books on the topic just google "narcissistic mothers and their daughters".
Although, my mother has been pretty narcissistic too, in her own special way...
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 57
Originally Posted by choublak 
How about "narcissistic fathers and their daughters"?
Although, my mother has been pretty narcissistic too, in her own special way...
Although, my mother has been pretty narcissistic too, in her own special way...
Trapped in the Mirror by Elan Golomb is a fantastic book for adult children of narcissistic parents. I just read it while on vacation last week and had many moments of needing to put the book down, breathe a little, then returning to re-read specific sections because it was so SPOT ON about growing up with narcissistic parents.
Loving a more peaceful life
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: England
Posts: 80
Originally Posted by Aeryn
Tentindependent - I'm not sure if this is what you meant but I was afraid of Alanon for the longest time because I thought it would be all women and I'm afraid of most women (especially older women with children)....of course that is from my past but it was a real issue.
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 431
Originally Posted by Tentindependent
I didn't think this was my issue with alanon but its given me something to think about. I'm in my 40s and only recently started building a network of friends that includes women. For years, most of my friends were male. Despite two abusive marriages, I've always been far more wary of women. I've had problems with bullying from women. I'm sure narcissists have been able to pick me out really easily!
The article and the book I read are just so eerie because it's so exact on my Mom's behavior....some of it word for word.
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,295
My mother is a 75 year old alcoholic minister. Yep, you read that right. My father was a abusive tyrant. He's passed.
I think for me, this thread was taking me down a rabbit hole I'm not sure I want to go down. I do have to leave some of that stuff from childhood right where it is--in the past.
I guess I am saying I am torn. Reliving the severe dysfunction through analyzing it might help me. Reliving the severe dysfunction might be well...reliving it, instead of relieving it.
Relieving it would be good.
Reliving it, not good at all.
How to do one without doing the other?
Nietzsche had a saying..."stare down into the abyss too far and it stares back at you"...cautionary.
As I'm about to embark upon some therapy, this question is at the forefront of my mind.
It could be a bit of a catch 22.
My mother's words, some of them, were right there in what you quoted too. Word for word sometimes.
I stopped trusting my mother with my heart completely at a young age when she told me flat out the psychological damage she would do if I didn't follow her orders.
Here is my concern. How do we heal without focusing on the victim aspect of the whole thing? Because I don't want to become an angry bitter victim, and staring down into the abyss of my mother's mind seems to lead nowhere else.
So back to not thinking about my mother at all...works for me on a daily basis.
But I'll visit your thread the times I can handle it.
I think for me, this thread was taking me down a rabbit hole I'm not sure I want to go down. I do have to leave some of that stuff from childhood right where it is--in the past.
I guess I am saying I am torn. Reliving the severe dysfunction through analyzing it might help me. Reliving the severe dysfunction might be well...reliving it, instead of relieving it.
Relieving it would be good.
Reliving it, not good at all.
How to do one without doing the other?
Nietzsche had a saying..."stare down into the abyss too far and it stares back at you"...cautionary.
As I'm about to embark upon some therapy, this question is at the forefront of my mind.
It could be a bit of a catch 22.
My mother's words, some of them, were right there in what you quoted too. Word for word sometimes.
I stopped trusting my mother with my heart completely at a young age when she told me flat out the psychological damage she would do if I didn't follow her orders.
Here is my concern. How do we heal without focusing on the victim aspect of the whole thing? Because I don't want to become an angry bitter victim, and staring down into the abyss of my mother's mind seems to lead nowhere else.
So back to not thinking about my mother at all...works for me on a daily basis.
But I'll visit your thread the times I can handle it.
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Hello BlueSkies, and pleased to "meet" you 
Carefuly 
The way it works for me is to focus on my _motives_. Whenever I have the need to get my family to admit what they did, I am in victim mode. If I have a plan in my head about what _they_ are going to say when I say something, so then I will reply with another planned line, and on and on, I am in victim mode.
As long as I want somebody else to change, or do what I want, or accept, my focus is _not_ on me. That is when I am re-living instead of healing.
When my entire mind is free of any other person in the world, and focusing and what _I_ have to change inside of me, that is when I am in recovery.
I spend very little time on what happened to me as a child. I spend most of my time analyzing my _present_, what triggers cause what reflexes, and then I practice _new_ reflexes. Practice, practice and more practice until I replace those dysfunctional triggers.
Mike
Originally Posted by BlueSkies1
...How to do one without doing the other? ...
The way it works for me is to focus on my _motives_. Whenever I have the need to get my family to admit what they did, I am in victim mode. If I have a plan in my head about what _they_ are going to say when I say something, so then I will reply with another planned line, and on and on, I am in victim mode.
As long as I want somebody else to change, or do what I want, or accept, my focus is _not_ on me. That is when I am re-living instead of healing.
When my entire mind is free of any other person in the world, and focusing and what _I_ have to change inside of me, that is when I am in recovery.
I spend very little time on what happened to me as a child. I spend most of my time analyzing my _present_, what triggers cause what reflexes, and then I practice _new_ reflexes. Practice, practice and more practice until I replace those dysfunctional triggers.
Mike
I'm just that girl
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: los angeles
Posts: 60
This is why I live an hour or more from my mom at all times.
Whenever I have an issue (health issues and surgery) my mom always had it worse. The night before my 2nd surgery, her biggest concern was not me going under the knife (cause it was "routine and it was fine") but if I would finally lose the weight.... Wow.
She read through every journal I ever had. Went through my bedroom, dumping drawers...because she "loved me".
When I bring up things like this she tells me to "get over it, it was a long time ago."
Only time I felt connected and supported by her was when I was left by my husband.
There's way more but...I have cut her from 80% of my life because she is toxic to my peacefulness. She doesn't get it. "Why aren't we close?" lol idiot.
Whenever I have an issue (health issues and surgery) my mom always had it worse. The night before my 2nd surgery, her biggest concern was not me going under the knife (cause it was "routine and it was fine") but if I would finally lose the weight.... Wow.
She read through every journal I ever had. Went through my bedroom, dumping drawers...because she "loved me".
When I bring up things like this she tells me to "get over it, it was a long time ago."
Only time I felt connected and supported by her was when I was left by my husband.
There's way more but...I have cut her from 80% of my life because she is toxic to my peacefulness. She doesn't get it. "Why aren't we close?" lol idiot.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Rochester, ny
Posts: 405
Most therapists agree my mother probably had BPD...but there must be a lot of overlap. This article rekinded me of a lot.
It certainly does affect our lives and rship choices. I've gone head over heels for a variety of personality disorded people and alcoholics. I've got the cluster B market covered. :P
It certainly does affect our lives and rship choices. I've gone head over heels for a variety of personality disorded people and alcoholics. I've got the cluster B market covered. :P
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