The last forum I ever wanted to join....
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 65
The last forum I ever wanted to join....
I'm going to try to tpye out the whole story, just to get it off my chest. I don't know if the tears interupting me are sadness, or shame. Maybe both.
I live on a small island, year round population, 2400. Around last new years, a friend of mine came up with her sister to see some other friends, and landed without a crash pad for the night. I offered my couch and they stayed over. The younger sister is actually a buddy of mine's ex-wife, and the three of us got along quite well. We had a few too many beers, and before you know it, me and the younger sister are fooling around. She's 23. I'm 37. Red flag numero uno.
I'm pretty stoked as you would expect. She's beautiful, smart (4th year MIT student), extroverted, and practically revered by everyone I know. She epitomizes perfection. Over the course of the next few weeks, she finds reason to come up, and reasons to spend time with me (non-sexually, though I think shes was just scouting her next codependent victim). We talk, lots, go on long walks, and generally like each other. She left MIT due to some problem with "financial aid" she says.....numero dos.
Eventually we have sex(safely). It's unimaginably good, and I have enough experience to tell. That pretty much seals it, I'm into this girl. We both know she will return to school in the Fall, but want to make the best of the short time we have.
She visits often now, people know we're together, she's always in my truck, and spends most nights at my place. One night, she's in an uncomfortable mood, and confesses: She left MIT because she had been using heroin, quit cold turkey, had a psychotic break, and was hospitalized for 2 weeks before being released into her sisters care on the other side of the country. Her (now-ex) BF is still on the east coast, and they are both trying to get clean. They used for 18 months. The last 8 with needles.
This is the part where I run? Right? No, not me, I'm helpful.....
My brain decides, that drugs are her past, not her present, and I don't know that abstinence and recovery are very different things, so I figure she's been clean for several months, it's almost impossible to get H here....I'm gonna go with it.
Time passes, we pretty much live together, and there's all these little behaviors I just don't understand, impulsiveness, recklessness, ****-poor decision making skills. It's little things, but I observe them. And they add up. We end up fighting a lot. Aparently, she likes fighting. She brings nothing but chaos to my life, and it takes most of my energy just to return it to order, but....I'm still buying into the image everybody else has of her, thinking it's in there somewhere. And she's constantly trying to create codependency in our little tryst. I fight it.
Her brother gets married on the east coast, in July, after the wedding, she visits her ex (who says he's clean) and bangs him, without a condom. The temporary nature of our arrangement meant I didn't expect monagamy, but I did expect ethical non-monagamy, and I put her a$$ in the car and went and got her tested(resluts were negative for all STI's).
I'm a little hurt by her impromptu infidelity, but effing pissed she put me at risk.
Is this the part where I tell her to beat it? No, I think that was a few paragraphs ago....I'm still concerned enough about her well-being, and her oh-so-bright future, that I think she just needs a little love and relaxation to get her head strait. Wouldn't that be easy.
I week later I notice my dog's Tramadol is suspiciously low....she claims the STI screen boold draw was a trigger, and she railed half the bottle. I kick her out, but I only last a week before I take pity on her and let back in. Now I'm hiding my dogs medication. I'm so proud.
More time passes, we fight more, the make up sex is still mind blowingly good, we're still using condoms. I know what I'm doing is wrong....but her needs keep ending up in front of mine.
Shortly before she leaves (for good) she drops this bomb: Her entire plan was to spend enough time away from her X and detox, and then run happily back to her old life, addiction-free. I'm devastated, by now I've found SR and been reading story after story, and I explain this puts her risk of relapse around 100%.
She ignores me and we finally split. She has a week left on-island. The week passes so smoothly, I've forgotten what life was like without constant stress, irritation, lies, I'm so happy she's gone.
And then she leaves. And now my codependency kicks in like never before. I'm worried and obsessing, she occupies my every thought. We begin chatting on FB, and as luck would have it, her ex never really quit...at all...over the last 9 months. But now she's going to save him from himself. I keep chatting, to try and help (lol) but it's become obvious, that the correct advice, is the very advice I was unwilling to follow, and I can't do that.
Our last conversation was last night. Two weeks she's been in NY. Which is exactly how long it took her to put a needle in her arm again.
I know this comes as no surprise to you veterans, but I'm so unbelievably sad right now that she went right back. I know, it was obvious to you. But I dared hope.
14 years ago I lost a good friend to this very needle, and that was probably the last time I cried this much.
I am going to try and break contact. But I will probably fail more than once. I guess I'm here on SR for support.
I live on a small island, year round population, 2400. Around last new years, a friend of mine came up with her sister to see some other friends, and landed without a crash pad for the night. I offered my couch and they stayed over. The younger sister is actually a buddy of mine's ex-wife, and the three of us got along quite well. We had a few too many beers, and before you know it, me and the younger sister are fooling around. She's 23. I'm 37. Red flag numero uno.
I'm pretty stoked as you would expect. She's beautiful, smart (4th year MIT student), extroverted, and practically revered by everyone I know. She epitomizes perfection. Over the course of the next few weeks, she finds reason to come up, and reasons to spend time with me (non-sexually, though I think shes was just scouting her next codependent victim). We talk, lots, go on long walks, and generally like each other. She left MIT due to some problem with "financial aid" she says.....numero dos.
Eventually we have sex(safely). It's unimaginably good, and I have enough experience to tell. That pretty much seals it, I'm into this girl. We both know she will return to school in the Fall, but want to make the best of the short time we have.
She visits often now, people know we're together, she's always in my truck, and spends most nights at my place. One night, she's in an uncomfortable mood, and confesses: She left MIT because she had been using heroin, quit cold turkey, had a psychotic break, and was hospitalized for 2 weeks before being released into her sisters care on the other side of the country. Her (now-ex) BF is still on the east coast, and they are both trying to get clean. They used for 18 months. The last 8 with needles.
This is the part where I run? Right? No, not me, I'm helpful.....
My brain decides, that drugs are her past, not her present, and I don't know that abstinence and recovery are very different things, so I figure she's been clean for several months, it's almost impossible to get H here....I'm gonna go with it.
Time passes, we pretty much live together, and there's all these little behaviors I just don't understand, impulsiveness, recklessness, ****-poor decision making skills. It's little things, but I observe them. And they add up. We end up fighting a lot. Aparently, she likes fighting. She brings nothing but chaos to my life, and it takes most of my energy just to return it to order, but....I'm still buying into the image everybody else has of her, thinking it's in there somewhere. And she's constantly trying to create codependency in our little tryst. I fight it.
Her brother gets married on the east coast, in July, after the wedding, she visits her ex (who says he's clean) and bangs him, without a condom. The temporary nature of our arrangement meant I didn't expect monagamy, but I did expect ethical non-monagamy, and I put her a$$ in the car and went and got her tested(resluts were negative for all STI's).
I'm a little hurt by her impromptu infidelity, but effing pissed she put me at risk.
Is this the part where I tell her to beat it? No, I think that was a few paragraphs ago....I'm still concerned enough about her well-being, and her oh-so-bright future, that I think she just needs a little love and relaxation to get her head strait. Wouldn't that be easy.
I week later I notice my dog's Tramadol is suspiciously low....she claims the STI screen boold draw was a trigger, and she railed half the bottle. I kick her out, but I only last a week before I take pity on her and let back in. Now I'm hiding my dogs medication. I'm so proud.
More time passes, we fight more, the make up sex is still mind blowingly good, we're still using condoms. I know what I'm doing is wrong....but her needs keep ending up in front of mine.
Shortly before she leaves (for good) she drops this bomb: Her entire plan was to spend enough time away from her X and detox, and then run happily back to her old life, addiction-free. I'm devastated, by now I've found SR and been reading story after story, and I explain this puts her risk of relapse around 100%.
She ignores me and we finally split. She has a week left on-island. The week passes so smoothly, I've forgotten what life was like without constant stress, irritation, lies, I'm so happy she's gone.
And then she leaves. And now my codependency kicks in like never before. I'm worried and obsessing, she occupies my every thought. We begin chatting on FB, and as luck would have it, her ex never really quit...at all...over the last 9 months. But now she's going to save him from himself. I keep chatting, to try and help (lol) but it's become obvious, that the correct advice, is the very advice I was unwilling to follow, and I can't do that.
Our last conversation was last night. Two weeks she's been in NY. Which is exactly how long it took her to put a needle in her arm again.
I know this comes as no surprise to you veterans, but I'm so unbelievably sad right now that she went right back. I know, it was obvious to you. But I dared hope.
14 years ago I lost a good friend to this very needle, and that was probably the last time I cried this much.
I am going to try and break contact. But I will probably fail more than once. I guess I'm here on SR for support.
Curmudgeon, Electrical Engineer, Guitar God Wannabe
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Where the mighty arms of Atlas hold the heavens from the Earth
Posts: 3,403
I am going to try and break contact. But I will probably fail more than once. I guess I'm here on SR for support.
For now, I suspect there is more than addiction at play here and she may have a character disorder. Combine addiction, character disorder, and her age, and she's bad, bad news. Delete all her contact info, block her from contacting you, and hunker down to ride out the storm. What you're about to go through is going to suck emotionally. There is no way to avoid it. That's the bad news.
The good news is she gave you a gift without knowing it: she revealed her character in all its ugly, gory glory. What she did is digusting, and she lacks the self awareness to recognize it as disgusting. There is nothing unequivocal about this, man. There is no way she can explain any of this away.
You may not believe this now, but there will come a day in the (hopefully) not-so-distance future you're going to silently thank her for what she did. Imagine being married to someone like that. Imagine having children with someone like that. Your pain, as horrible and as unbearable as it is right now, would have been about 40 dB worse if you had a family with this chick.
Right now, spend time with friends and learn as much as you can about addiction. I would also recommend a book titled "I Hate You Don't Leave Me". I suspect the subject matter will fill the gaps in your current knowledge.
Hang in there.
ZoSo
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Jungle
Posts: 5,435
First, you are not a fool......there....I said it.....I don't agree with your screen name. None of us are fools. Most of us are kind people who simply want to give and receive love. That's it. Enter addiction and BAM.....being nice becomes a tool.
Letting go of someone we love(d) is hard in the best of circumstances. Add the fear of death in there and our sadness and anxiety goes through the roof.
It does get better but not until we either get healthy and emotionally detach from the shenanigans or we cut the addict out of our lives entirely. Some of us have reasons not to completely cut the addict out of our lives (the addict in my life is my son) but when he was active, I definitely limited contact considerably.
Time heals but it also reveals more. Addicts do understand who is willing to "help" them and they will pull out any weapon (psychological, sexual, physical....you name it) to get what they want. Don't be surprised if she takes more "runs" at you for help, money, a place to stay, etc. Say "No" a few times and she'll disappear.
I'm so sorry that you have experienced this.....loving an addict is hard to say the least. And they say "I'm not hurting anyone......"
gentle hugs
ke
Letting go of someone we love(d) is hard in the best of circumstances. Add the fear of death in there and our sadness and anxiety goes through the roof.
It does get better but not until we either get healthy and emotionally detach from the shenanigans or we cut the addict out of our lives entirely. Some of us have reasons not to completely cut the addict out of our lives (the addict in my life is my son) but when he was active, I definitely limited contact considerably.
Time heals but it also reveals more. Addicts do understand who is willing to "help" them and they will pull out any weapon (psychological, sexual, physical....you name it) to get what they want. Don't be surprised if she takes more "runs" at you for help, money, a place to stay, etc. Say "No" a few times and she'll disappear.
I'm so sorry that you have experienced this.....loving an addict is hard to say the least. And they say "I'm not hurting anyone......"
gentle hugs
ke
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 845
I think it's very brave of you to reach out here. I dated a cocaine addict a couple years ago, and I completely identify with the anger you seem to be feeling toward yourself. I knew while I was dating him that I was making bad decisions, but somehow I felt like I couldn't stop myself, and I felt very ashamed. I gave him money, I tried to persuade him to get help. I finally realized that I could never control his addiction, but I could control whether his chaos entered my world. It was a very liberating discovery!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 48
I'm laughing my butt off right now with relief. My ex meth addict showed interest in my dog's Tramadol a few months ago and I started hiding it. I was sure I was the only person on earth who knew what it felt like to hide doggy pain meds. It's a moment isn't it? When you realize your life has come to that. I'll remember it forever.
You came to SR for exactly the right reasons. Everyone here is going to understand or identify with some part of what you wrote. KE, says it often and it's right on: loving an addict is hard. But the commonality of emotions and experiences is unbelievable. And we're just the ones who write about it here. You've found a god place to vent.
If you've lost a friend to addiction, you know what you are dealing with right now. Detachment sucks. The alternative is inviting her back into your life to remind you of how much addiction sucks. And then detaching. Want to do it and hermit over with? Or want to go another couple of rounds, possibly loose your mind or something dear to you, and then start to realize she have you a gift by going exactly where she wanted to go.
You will find excellent sex with a healthy person. You will enjoy peace and quiet. And you can hope this woman takes care of herself and helps herself, from afar.
You came to SR for exactly the right reasons. Everyone here is going to understand or identify with some part of what you wrote. KE, says it often and it's right on: loving an addict is hard. But the commonality of emotions and experiences is unbelievable. And we're just the ones who write about it here. You've found a god place to vent.
If you've lost a friend to addiction, you know what you are dealing with right now. Detachment sucks. The alternative is inviting her back into your life to remind you of how much addiction sucks. And then detaching. Want to do it and hermit over with? Or want to go another couple of rounds, possibly loose your mind or something dear to you, and then start to realize she have you a gift by going exactly where she wanted to go.
You will find excellent sex with a healthy person. You will enjoy peace and quiet. And you can hope this woman takes care of herself and helps herself, from afar.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 65
I think the strongest feeling right now is self-loathing. I watched it all unfold, and while partially ignorant, I was not completely ignorant. I think I'm better than this, but I have just proven myself wrong.
How do I forgive myself?
How do I not fall into the low-self-esteem trap?
I have always judged other people by what they do (and been criticized for it), and I apply that same methodology to my own life.
How do I forgive myself?
How do I not fall into the low-self-esteem trap?
I have always judged other people by what they do (and been criticized for it), and I apply that same methodology to my own life.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 311
Hi AF- welcome to SR. This part of the ride is not fun so please vent as much as needed. Dealing with the aftermath of any break up is not pleasant. Then factor in addiction and all that comes with it including but not limited to- lying, stealing, cheating, betrayal, abandonment, neglect, abuse, anguish, torment, intensity, insanity.
It's heartache multiplied by 10, squared, to the millionth power then go ahead and double that. At least it feels that bad at first. You get my point. Loving an addict creates an intensity unlike any other relationship. I did not say intimacy. I said intensity. Big difference between healthy relationships and addictive relationships. Oh and believe me, my AXBF was like my "crack."
FYI- that intensity that you felt for her was something that was inside of you. She did not create that inside of you. It is a part of you that she showed you that you posses. It has nothing to do with her. So therefor, you can begin to drop the self-loathing- because really you still posses all of that love and passion. She just showed you what you already have.
She is trapped by drugs and cannot posses real love and passion while she is high. But you can. If you want to stay out of that low self-esteem trap- don't give her that power. Take back your power. Her addiction has nothing to do with you. It's not personal.
Taking a chance on love does not make you a fool- it makes you brave. You took a risk and it did not work out how you had hoped. This is where you can begin to forgive yourself. Let go of hope of who she could be and what you expected, and you will start to forgive.
Yes, you had the knowledge that she is a drug addict (I also did too when I first started dating my AXBF). But unless you have been in relationships with other addicts, you may not have been completely aware of what you were getting into. Now you know. I hope for you that you do not have to go through years of this like I did to figure it out. But no judgement whatever you decide.
Take heed from the wisest of the wise here on SR. I have learned so much about addiction and about myself. At first, it was all about him and how I could help him. Now, my presence on SR is not about him anymore- it's about me and taking care of myself. What she does now is not important, but what you do now is crucial to your health and happiness.
Bless and release her- the sooner the better! Only then will you know the truth.
It's heartache multiplied by 10, squared, to the millionth power then go ahead and double that. At least it feels that bad at first. You get my point. Loving an addict creates an intensity unlike any other relationship. I did not say intimacy. I said intensity. Big difference between healthy relationships and addictive relationships. Oh and believe me, my AXBF was like my "crack."
FYI- that intensity that you felt for her was something that was inside of you. She did not create that inside of you. It is a part of you that she showed you that you posses. It has nothing to do with her. So therefor, you can begin to drop the self-loathing- because really you still posses all of that love and passion. She just showed you what you already have.
She is trapped by drugs and cannot posses real love and passion while she is high. But you can. If you want to stay out of that low self-esteem trap- don't give her that power. Take back your power. Her addiction has nothing to do with you. It's not personal.
Taking a chance on love does not make you a fool- it makes you brave. You took a risk and it did not work out how you had hoped. This is where you can begin to forgive yourself. Let go of hope of who she could be and what you expected, and you will start to forgive.
Yes, you had the knowledge that she is a drug addict (I also did too when I first started dating my AXBF). But unless you have been in relationships with other addicts, you may not have been completely aware of what you were getting into. Now you know. I hope for you that you do not have to go through years of this like I did to figure it out. But no judgement whatever you decide.
Take heed from the wisest of the wise here on SR. I have learned so much about addiction and about myself. At first, it was all about him and how I could help him. Now, my presence on SR is not about him anymore- it's about me and taking care of myself. What she does now is not important, but what you do now is crucial to your health and happiness.
Bless and release her- the sooner the better! Only then will you know the truth.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 48
I understand where you are coming from but your self worth can not be judged on how well you interact with an addict. If that was easy or even easy to master, no one would be here in this forum.
I recently had to tuck tail and admit to myself that I will be fighting to remain separated from my addict of choice everyday. I consider myself to be a successful, good looking woman with a successful career. And yes, I'm a Codie and harder on myself than anyone else would ever think of being. I'm familiar with self loathing over this but when you read the stories and advice of people that are also successful and normal folks, you realize that for every addict, there is at least one other person who is affected by the addict and that person is usually pretty level headed on everything except dealing with the addict. My point is, emotional situations are no place for judgement. Stop beating yourself up. Don't judge yourself in general based on this and don't judge others with similar situations. Our problems originated with love for someone and this stuff ain't easy to navigate.
Kick yourself in the butt if you let it continue after this day. And kick yourself for it if it happens again. Think positive. Life really is all about your perception and attitude. if you start having thoughts about feeling good and putting all of this to rest, you will start feeling good and put this to rest.
No one is perfect. So we learn from experience and hope to navigate future situations better. Love yourself and take care of youseself ASAP.
I recently had to tuck tail and admit to myself that I will be fighting to remain separated from my addict of choice everyday. I consider myself to be a successful, good looking woman with a successful career. And yes, I'm a Codie and harder on myself than anyone else would ever think of being. I'm familiar with self loathing over this but when you read the stories and advice of people that are also successful and normal folks, you realize that for every addict, there is at least one other person who is affected by the addict and that person is usually pretty level headed on everything except dealing with the addict. My point is, emotional situations are no place for judgement. Stop beating yourself up. Don't judge yourself in general based on this and don't judge others with similar situations. Our problems originated with love for someone and this stuff ain't easy to navigate.
Kick yourself in the butt if you let it continue after this day. And kick yourself for it if it happens again. Think positive. Life really is all about your perception and attitude. if you start having thoughts about feeling good and putting all of this to rest, you will start feeling good and put this to rest.
No one is perfect. So we learn from experience and hope to navigate future situations better. Love yourself and take care of youseself ASAP.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 2,282
Self loathing? How do you forgive yourself?
You forgive yourself because you are human. Humans make mistakes.
Humans mislead themselves. They want to believe the best of others
because they don't want to be grouped with those miserable timid
pathetic losers that think the very worst about everybody(because
they are projecting what cowards THEY are....on other people's lives).
As far as judging people by what they do-----how many of those
who criticize you for THAT are transparent hypocrites?
Who the hell in all of recorded history has not judged people by what they
do?
Give yourself a break, buddy. Once in a while we THUMP an animal
driving up two-lane roads. If we have a conscience....we stop. If there
is something we can do, we do it......be that helping it (if feasible), or putting it
out of it's misery(if not).
We don't just drive off. Not if we're non-sociopathic humans.
It is not in the normal realm for an animal to 'simulate' a hit, then play the wounded
routine(please help me, I am in distress).They just aren't that intelligent.
(But, interestingly, a species of bird I frequently run across will do the 'broken wing"
stunt if you get too close to it's ground level nest (& eggs)......in effect saying "look at me, I'm
wounded and an easy meal----come chase me!"....leading you AWAY from nest.)
[pure instinct I am sure, zero conscious thought]
On land, sea, or air ---if you choose to ignore a distress call.......your professional and/or
social life is OVER. We are a social species who find few things
more repugnant than the able ignoring the cries of the afflicted.
Don't hate yourself for your humanity. Don't hate them for taking advantage. It
is just an unfortunate interplay of addiction and sociology. If you picked up the phone right
now and told 911 your home is on fire----you won't be asked 20 questions by the
dispatcher nor will he/she try to play 'gotcha' with your information. $10 million worth of
equipment and competent operators are on their way.....period.
Better than this? Better than being human? My friend, FAR better men than you or
I have been fooled by our feelings. As far as your story goes----I hate to break this to
you, but read a little about MY misadventures.
Then you will realize that your "Grand Mal seizure" that you think places you in the
running for "senior buffoon" barely merits a 'participation' ribbon.
Mano-a-Mano........nice try, but at two posts-----how do I say this nicely????
You are going to have to do a hell of a lot better than this to have a snowflakes chance
in hell of approaching the Pantheon of the Senior Sucker Elite.
(we are a jealous few and safeguard our hard won status ruthlessly)
You forgive yourself because you are human. Humans make mistakes.
Humans mislead themselves. They want to believe the best of others
because they don't want to be grouped with those miserable timid
pathetic losers that think the very worst about everybody(because
they are projecting what cowards THEY are....on other people's lives).
As far as judging people by what they do-----how many of those
who criticize you for THAT are transparent hypocrites?
Who the hell in all of recorded history has not judged people by what they
do?
Give yourself a break, buddy. Once in a while we THUMP an animal
driving up two-lane roads. If we have a conscience....we stop. If there
is something we can do, we do it......be that helping it (if feasible), or putting it
out of it's misery(if not).
We don't just drive off. Not if we're non-sociopathic humans.
It is not in the normal realm for an animal to 'simulate' a hit, then play the wounded
routine(please help me, I am in distress).They just aren't that intelligent.
(But, interestingly, a species of bird I frequently run across will do the 'broken wing"
stunt if you get too close to it's ground level nest (& eggs)......in effect saying "look at me, I'm
wounded and an easy meal----come chase me!"....leading you AWAY from nest.)
[pure instinct I am sure, zero conscious thought]
On land, sea, or air ---if you choose to ignore a distress call.......your professional and/or
social life is OVER. We are a social species who find few things
more repugnant than the able ignoring the cries of the afflicted.
Don't hate yourself for your humanity. Don't hate them for taking advantage. It
is just an unfortunate interplay of addiction and sociology. If you picked up the phone right
now and told 911 your home is on fire----you won't be asked 20 questions by the
dispatcher nor will he/she try to play 'gotcha' with your information. $10 million worth of
equipment and competent operators are on their way.....period.
Better than this? Better than being human? My friend, FAR better men than you or
I have been fooled by our feelings. As far as your story goes----I hate to break this to
you, but read a little about MY misadventures.
Then you will realize that your "Grand Mal seizure" that you think places you in the
running for "senior buffoon" barely merits a 'participation' ribbon.
Mano-a-Mano........nice try, but at two posts-----how do I say this nicely????
You are going to have to do a hell of a lot better than this to have a snowflakes chance
in hell of approaching the Pantheon of the Senior Sucker Elite.
(we are a jealous few and safeguard our hard won status ruthlessly)
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 65
Originally Posted by Vale 
...Then you will realize that your "Grand Mal seizure" that you think places you in the
running for "senior buffoon" barely merits a 'participation' ribbon.
Mano-a-Mano........nice try, but at two posts-----how do I say this nicely????
You are going to have to do a hell of a lot better than this to have a snowflakes chance
in hell of approaching the Pantheon of the Senior Sucker Elite.
(we are a jealous few and safeguard our hard won status ruthlessly)
running for "senior buffoon" barely merits a 'participation' ribbon.
Mano-a-Mano........nice try, but at two posts-----how do I say this nicely????
You are going to have to do a hell of a lot better than this to have a snowflakes chance
in hell of approaching the Pantheon of the Senior Sucker Elite.
(we are a jealous few and safeguard our hard won status ruthlessly)
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Jungle
Posts: 5,435
Originally Posted by anotherfool
I think the strongest feeling right now is self-loathing. I watched it all unfold, and while partially ignorant, I was not completely ignorant. I think I'm better than this, but I have just proven myself wrong.
How do I forgive myself?
How do I not fall into the low-self-esteem trap?
I have always judged other people by what they do (and been criticized for it), and I apply that same methodology to my own life.
How do I forgive myself?
How do I not fall into the low-self-esteem trap?
I have always judged other people by what they do (and been criticized for it), and I apply that same methodology to my own life.
Sometimes the most important lessons we have to learn are those we believe we've already mastered.
gentle hugs
ke
Curmudgeon, Electrical Engineer, Guitar God Wannabe
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Where the mighty arms of Atlas hold the heavens from the Earth
Posts: 3,403
Originally Posted by anotherfool
I think the strongest feeling right now is self-loathing. I watched it all unfold, and while partially ignorant, I was not completely ignorant. I think I'm better than this, but I have just proven myself wrong.
How do I forgive myself?
How do I not fall into the low-self-esteem trap?
I have always judged other people by what they do (and been criticized for it), and I apply that same methodology to my own life.
How do I forgive myself?
How do I not fall into the low-self-esteem trap?
I have always judged other people by what they do (and been criticized for it), and I apply that same methodology to my own life.
The most important thing to do is to honestly assess where you went wrong so you can learn from the experience.
FWIW, I've made similar mistakes and came out the other side fine.
ZoSo
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Hello anotherfool, and welcome to SoberRecovery 
I've met a few like that. One I married, the other I almost did.
So you went it alone into an area of life you know nothing about? Running through a mine field even though you know it's a mine field? Been there, done that.
How did her needs manage that? She took the dog meds, but she did not put her needs there. Who did? In my life it was me that was fiddling with my priorities and putting them in the wrong place.
That was not a bomb. That was honesty. She managed to fight through the disease long enough to tell you the truth. That's amazing, you are a lucky man to have seen that.
Sounds to me like you already have a justification for failing all set up and ready to go.
Allow me to tell you a little about me, see if something in my story might be of use to you.
Lovely young lady, very intelligent, adorable personality, great sense of humor. World class athlete, top 100 in some insane sporting events. Ex-Marine, runs with a seriously bad-@$$ biker club, ex cons, ex marines, ex all kind of things. All of them in AA or NA, most of them clean and sober and living a decent life. But still bikers.
Oh yes, she's _very_ attractive. Fanatastic singer and entertainer, teaches at the local pole dancing school. Has a kind of odd-ball job that takes all over the country all the time, never stays in the same town for more than a few months. Classic gypsy right out of some B-rated movie.
How many "red flags" in that short description? My sponsor said he could see a whole _parade_ of red flags. Me? nah, I'm the hero type, I can handle her.
I did handle her, a few times. What I decided not to see is that she is an addict, to lots of things. Anorexia, bullemia, rage, alcohol, drugs, etc. etc. Among the many "character defects" that come with those addictions is a tendency to fly into fits of rage and attack whichever passerby happens to be in front of her. Once it was a nurse at a hospital, another time some guy in front of us at the show, a woman at the post office, etc.
Taking down a marine-trained, biker raised, world class athlete without getting anybody hurt is not fun. Fortunately nobody suffered more than bruises.
Now. Just how stupid does a guy have to be in order to want _anything_ to do with a chick like that? As stupid as me
Thanks to al-anon, and the lessons I have learned from SR, I was able to get myself untangled from the insane relationship _I_ created. There was no relationship with this chick in real life, it was all imagined in my own little mind. She just had a nice place to crash every night, with some guy that paid the rent, good deal for her. Smart addict. It was _me_ that fabricated a relationship where there was none.
If you are like me, then I would say you are still living in your fantasy. There is no contact to break. There never was any contact. You can just pretend to dial the number and pretend you are talking to somebody, you'll get the same amount of _real relationship_ in return.
Living in a fantasy is not so bad. Lunatics in the assylum do it all the time, but they are kept safe from the cruel realities of the world outside. Living in a fantasy and populating it with random people that cross your path is a whole different kind of risk. You might get lucky and stumble across an addict that actually told you the truth one time. The next one you find might not be so docile, she might be a biker chick with violent tendencies. You ever see "Fatal Attraction"? That movie was _tame_ compared to what a codependent hero-type can get mixed up with.
It wasn't all bad. Some of those biker guys were decent, righteous dudes who live an honest life clean and sober. They have become good friends to me. I met some of the most gifted athletes in the world, and witnessed their incredible feats. I also got a really cool leather jacket
I have learned that there are two ways to live my life. I can do good actions and _be_ a good person that makes my corner of the world a little better for having been here. Or I can find somebody else that looks cool in my eyes, find a way to reflect their "wonderful-ness" onto my humble self, and try to eke some kind of second-hand self-esteem from this other person.
No more biker chicks for me. I'm sticking to keeping my corner of the world simple and just being me, without any fantasies.
Welcome again, like others have said, a fool would never have joined a forum on this subject, never mind have shared with such honesty. I hope you find what you are looking for, the rest of us have.
Mike
Originally Posted by anotherfool
... She's 23. I'm 37. Red flag numero uno.I'm pretty stoked as you would expect. She's beautiful, smart (4th year MIT student), extroverted, and practically revered by everyone I know. She epitomizes perfection....
Originally Posted by anotherfool
... My brain decides, that drugs are her past, not her present,...
Originally Posted by anotherfool
... I know what I'm doing is wrong....but her needs keep ending up in front of mine....
Originally Posted by anotherfool
... she drops this bomb: Her entire plan was to spend enough time away from her X and detox, and then run happily back to her old life, addiction-free. ...
Originally Posted by anotherfool
... I am going to try and break contact. But I will probably fail more than once....
Allow me to tell you a little about me, see if something in my story might be of use to you.
Lovely young lady, very intelligent, adorable personality, great sense of humor. World class athlete, top 100 in some insane sporting events. Ex-Marine, runs with a seriously bad-@$$ biker club, ex cons, ex marines, ex all kind of things. All of them in AA or NA, most of them clean and sober and living a decent life. But still bikers.
Oh yes, she's _very_ attractive. Fanatastic singer and entertainer, teaches at the local pole dancing school. Has a kind of odd-ball job that takes all over the country all the time, never stays in the same town for more than a few months. Classic gypsy right out of some B-rated movie.
How many "red flags" in that short description? My sponsor said he could see a whole _parade_ of red flags. Me? nah, I'm the hero type, I can handle her.
I did handle her, a few times. What I decided not to see is that she is an addict, to lots of things. Anorexia, bullemia, rage, alcohol, drugs, etc. etc. Among the many "character defects" that come with those addictions is a tendency to fly into fits of rage and attack whichever passerby happens to be in front of her. Once it was a nurse at a hospital, another time some guy in front of us at the show, a woman at the post office, etc.
Taking down a marine-trained, biker raised, world class athlete without getting anybody hurt is not fun. Fortunately nobody suffered more than bruises.
Now. Just how stupid does a guy have to be in order to want _anything_ to do with a chick like that? As stupid as me
Thanks to al-anon, and the lessons I have learned from SR, I was able to get myself untangled from the insane relationship _I_ created. There was no relationship with this chick in real life, it was all imagined in my own little mind. She just had a nice place to crash every night, with some guy that paid the rent, good deal for her. Smart addict. It was _me_ that fabricated a relationship where there was none.
Originally Posted by anotherfool
... I am going to try and break contact. But I will probably fail more than once....
Living in a fantasy is not so bad. Lunatics in the assylum do it all the time, but they are kept safe from the cruel realities of the world outside. Living in a fantasy and populating it with random people that cross your path is a whole different kind of risk. You might get lucky and stumble across an addict that actually told you the truth one time. The next one you find might not be so docile, she might be a biker chick with violent tendencies. You ever see "Fatal Attraction"? That movie was _tame_ compared to what a codependent hero-type can get mixed up with.
It wasn't all bad. Some of those biker guys were decent, righteous dudes who live an honest life clean and sober. They have become good friends to me. I met some of the most gifted athletes in the world, and witnessed their incredible feats. I also got a really cool leather jacket
I have learned that there are two ways to live my life. I can do good actions and _be_ a good person that makes my corner of the world a little better for having been here. Or I can find somebody else that looks cool in my eyes, find a way to reflect their "wonderful-ness" onto my humble self, and try to eke some kind of second-hand self-esteem from this other person.
No more biker chicks for me. I'm sticking to keeping my corner of the world simple and just being me, without any fantasies.
Welcome again, like others have said, a fool would never have joined a forum on this subject, never mind have shared with such honesty. I hope you find what you are looking for, the rest of us have.
Mike
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 65
I want to thank everybody for the kind, and less-than-kind replies. It has helped me tremendously, every one. It's actually amazing just how much better one can feel when others understand.
But I still have a few more questions, and probably a ton more garbage before I get this all out, and I know y'all can point me in the right direction.
On this note, I have never done anything right the first time, in my entire life, so while I may fail, I am setting myself up for forgiveness, and I'm OK with that.
I just know that somehow, some day, she will find a way to communicate with me, some night after I've been out for a few beers with friends and I'll take the bait. Whether it's a suicide threat, a story of how badly he BF treats her or a funny web-comic. I'm hard enough on myself already. I'm giving myself an out.
I am still living in my fantasy, but you got this one wrong too. I don't want any sort of relationship with her, but having given this a lot of thought, it's become obvious I still believe I can "help her"
That's that fantasy I can't let go of.
So, on this point, I have a Q:
Is it good or bad to explain to the person you're cutting contact with, why?
I believe it would have marginal effect on her, or simply give her ammo to try and leverage against me later, but if I "seal all the gates" of communication, this would be very therapeutic for me.
I would like to get it all off my chest. And say goodbye.
Is this recommended or not recommended?
But I still have a few more questions, and probably a ton more garbage before I get this all out, and I know y'all can point me in the right direction.
Originally Posted by DesertEyes
Sounds to me like you already have a justification for failing all set up and ready to go.
I just know that somehow, some day, she will find a way to communicate with me, some night after I've been out for a few beers with friends and I'll take the bait. Whether it's a suicide threat, a story of how badly he BF treats her or a funny web-comic. I'm hard enough on myself already. I'm giving myself an out.
Originally Posted by DesertEyes
If you are like me, then I would say you are still living in your fantasy. There is no contact to break. There never was any contact. You can just pretend to dial the number and pretend you are talking to somebody, you'll get the same amount of _real relationship_ in return.
That's that fantasy I can't let go of.
So, on this point, I have a Q:
Is it good or bad to explain to the person you're cutting contact with, why?
I believe it would have marginal effect on her, or simply give her ammo to try and leverage against me later, but if I "seal all the gates" of communication, this would be very therapeutic for me.
I would like to get it all off my chest. And say goodbye.
Is this recommended or not recommended?
Last edited by anotherfool; 09-19-2013 at 11:02 PM. Reason: sp
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,572
Tell her if it makes you feel better.
But she obviously has just used you and has zero regard for you emotionally or physically.
I dated a girl like this. And it is a nightmare. But it is what they say about the excitement. It's totally bad for you, but you already know this.
Break contact, otherwise you know what you are in for...
But she obviously has just used you and has zero regard for you emotionally or physically.
I dated a girl like this. And it is a nightmare. But it is what they say about the excitement. It's totally bad for you, but you already know this.
Break contact, otherwise you know what you are in for...
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 65
So here's some other Q's, I'm afraid I'll get ripped for, but they're mine and I'm asking them:
Enabling: Keeping the addicts secrets.
Her history is known by a handful of people, but not public in any way. I live on a small island. If somebody (anybody) asks me about my day (or the last few weeks) and I tell the truth, some unrelated third party will be asking me about it in line at the grocery store tomorrow. It's that small here.
I read somewhere that "outing" an addict wasn't necessarily beneficial, but keeping it all to myself is definitely detrimental.
How do I give myself the freedom to be myself, talk to people about my life, and rekindle friendships that I ignored while with her, for the sake of her privacy, without completely throwing her under the bus?
Anybody here live in a community this small (2400 +/-)?
I feel that's it's up to her to ruin her reputation, not on me to do it for her. That her story is hers to tell, and the pain it earns is hers to feel.
Enabling: Keeping the addicts secrets.
Her history is known by a handful of people, but not public in any way. I live on a small island. If somebody (anybody) asks me about my day (or the last few weeks) and I tell the truth, some unrelated third party will be asking me about it in line at the grocery store tomorrow. It's that small here.
I read somewhere that "outing" an addict wasn't necessarily beneficial, but keeping it all to myself is definitely detrimental.
How do I give myself the freedom to be myself, talk to people about my life, and rekindle friendships that I ignored while with her, for the sake of her privacy, without completely throwing her under the bus?
Anybody here live in a community this small (2400 +/-)?
I feel that's it's up to her to ruin her reputation, not on me to do it for her. That her story is hers to tell, and the pain it earns is hers to feel.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 65
Also, on Meetings:
We have an AA meeting here. There's nothing anonymous about it. The same people that used to drink themselves to death, in the bar, now drink coffee together in the Legion Hall.
So no Al-anon, or Nar-Anon. Ferry tickets get expensive.
Is my experience bad enough to merit finding meetings when I am on the mainland? Can I not just work through my stuff IRL, and here on SR?
Going to meetings sounds like punishment for something I didn't even do. And the fact that I have this opportunity to exit this toxic relationship right now, makes me one of the lucky ones.
I have considered seeing a counselor, as I think that would help.
We have an AA meeting here. There's nothing anonymous about it. The same people that used to drink themselves to death, in the bar, now drink coffee together in the Legion Hall.
So no Al-anon, or Nar-Anon. Ferry tickets get expensive.
Is my experience bad enough to merit finding meetings when I am on the mainland? Can I not just work through my stuff IRL, and here on SR?
Going to meetings sounds like punishment for something I didn't even do. And the fact that I have this opportunity to exit this toxic relationship right now, makes me one of the lucky ones.
I have considered seeing a counselor, as I think that would help.
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