My father and my friendship
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My father and my friendship
I'm new to this forum, so I'm not entirely sure if this is in the right spot, but here I go (I apologize in advance for the length):
I am currently 18, and have been estranged from my father for 7 years now. He was a violent, abusive alcoholic who beat my mother and forced my mother, my older brother, and me to frequently spend the night in hotels to escape from him. I was always afraid of him and dreaded him coming home. Finally when I was 9 my mother got her master's degree and was able to leave my father after years of him abusing her and cheating on her. He moved out and my brother and I would stay at his place on weekends, but he was always drunk, putting our lives in danger (driving drunk with us, passing out and leaving the doors unlocked, leaving me with shady women he was dating, etc), and just generally making us feel uncomfortable and uneasy around him. When I was 11 we had a huge fight in which he called me horrible names and wouldn't let me call my mother to pick me up, and I decided right then and there that I would not deal with him anymore. I walked out of his life for good, and it was easy. He stopped paying child support shortly after that and now owes us tens of thousands of dollars, and he continually tried to make me feel like our estrangement was MY fault, and not because of his drinking. Lots of stuff has happened in these past 7 years that I can't even begin to describe, which just made me hate him more and more. After finally realizing he has a drinking problem, he has gone to countless treatment centers and rehabs, only to relapse again and again. He writes me letters every so often to brag about being one month sober, as though I'm supposed to be impressed and let him back into my life. I ignore them, and sure enough, the next time I hear from him he's drunk once again. I have never regretted my decision to cut him out of my life. But then this summer happened:
In June my best friend in the world and I had a huge falling out. Long story short, he was going through some stuff that I didn't even know about or consider, and wanted time to himself. I freaked out because I thought he didn't want to be my friend anymore out of the blue, and I acted crazy. Finally after weeks of fighting, he told me that he wanted nothing to do with me and to get out of his life. I was crushed. He was my very best friend. We spent so much time together, and he was never anything but wonderful to me. A couple weeks after our friendship ended, I started realizing things about myself. I realized that I was a terrible friend to this wonderful person. To everyone, for that matter. I was constantly mean and judgmental, calling him stupid all the time. But yet I was desperately clingy. I wanted him to tell me he loved me constantly even though I knew he didn't like to (he is gay, for one, and is uncomfortable telling anyone he loves them). I wanted to hang out all the time and just do nothing. And it was because of my father that I was so attached. My friend was the only man in my life that was nothing but good to me, and I was so worried that he would leave me like everyone else, that I subconsciously sabotaged our beautiful relationship. The point is, I realized I didn't like myself, and I completely understood why he didn't want to be my friend anymore. Basically, I realized that all the traits I hated about myself were the same ones I hated about my father. I realized I have "daddy issues", even though I thought cutting him out of my life would spare me from them. It was a really painful realization. So, I took the whole summer to try to change into someone I liked. I made a list of traits that I don't like about myself, and a list of traits that I wanted to have. I've learned to be independent and not rely on someone else to feel validated. And I think I've done pretty well. But now I've been thinking: I was told to get out of someone's life that I truly cared about, and it was devastating, but it was completely my fault. That hurts. But now I've changed, and I've decided that in October I'm going to try to talk to my friend again. It seems simple to try to talk to someone you were once so close to, but I feel pretty hopeless. He's really stubborn, and the last he knew of me, I was acting like a psycho. It seems like he would never want to hear me out, and I can't blame him for that. But I miss him so much.
Then I think about my father. The last time I heard from him he had written me a 9 page letter from a rehab when he was one or two months sober. I ignored it. Then, my mom recently tried to take him to court to garnish his checks if he ever gets a job, but she couldn't find out where he was living. Just last week she called him and surprisingly, he answered. He told her where he was living and said he was 26 months sober. He asked about my brother and me, and gave my mom his current address to send him the court papers.
I've been connecting what happened between my father and me to what happened to my friend and me, and it's so eerily similar. I've had this plan to write my father a letter and get all my feelings out and finally let all my hate go, but I wasn't going to send it because I didn't know where he was living. Now I've been thinking: was my mom getting his address a sign that I should send it? More importantly, is it a sign that I should open up a communication with him? I now know what it's like to lose someone because of your faults, and for the first time ever, I almost feel bad about cutting my father out of my life. The thing is, I don't want him back in my life. I don't want to talk to him. I know my life is better without him. He damaged me, and I can't remember the last time I felt love for him (if ever). But am I supposed to let him back into my life? I feel like I deserve what happened between me and my friend because I did the same thing to someone else. It doesn't make sense to never forgive my father, and at the same time expect my friend to forgive me. It doesn't make sense that someone should believe that I've become a better person, while I never give my father a chance to prove that he might have changed as well.
As you can see, I'm really, really confused right now. I'm looking in to attending some Al Anon meetings soon because I think people who have dealt with addicts can help me better than anyone. But before I do that, does anyone here have any advice on my situation?
Thanks so much if you read all of this.
Ann
I am currently 18, and have been estranged from my father for 7 years now. He was a violent, abusive alcoholic who beat my mother and forced my mother, my older brother, and me to frequently spend the night in hotels to escape from him. I was always afraid of him and dreaded him coming home. Finally when I was 9 my mother got her master's degree and was able to leave my father after years of him abusing her and cheating on her. He moved out and my brother and I would stay at his place on weekends, but he was always drunk, putting our lives in danger (driving drunk with us, passing out and leaving the doors unlocked, leaving me with shady women he was dating, etc), and just generally making us feel uncomfortable and uneasy around him. When I was 11 we had a huge fight in which he called me horrible names and wouldn't let me call my mother to pick me up, and I decided right then and there that I would not deal with him anymore. I walked out of his life for good, and it was easy. He stopped paying child support shortly after that and now owes us tens of thousands of dollars, and he continually tried to make me feel like our estrangement was MY fault, and not because of his drinking. Lots of stuff has happened in these past 7 years that I can't even begin to describe, which just made me hate him more and more. After finally realizing he has a drinking problem, he has gone to countless treatment centers and rehabs, only to relapse again and again. He writes me letters every so often to brag about being one month sober, as though I'm supposed to be impressed and let him back into my life. I ignore them, and sure enough, the next time I hear from him he's drunk once again. I have never regretted my decision to cut him out of my life. But then this summer happened:
In June my best friend in the world and I had a huge falling out. Long story short, he was going through some stuff that I didn't even know about or consider, and wanted time to himself. I freaked out because I thought he didn't want to be my friend anymore out of the blue, and I acted crazy. Finally after weeks of fighting, he told me that he wanted nothing to do with me and to get out of his life. I was crushed. He was my very best friend. We spent so much time together, and he was never anything but wonderful to me. A couple weeks after our friendship ended, I started realizing things about myself. I realized that I was a terrible friend to this wonderful person. To everyone, for that matter. I was constantly mean and judgmental, calling him stupid all the time. But yet I was desperately clingy. I wanted him to tell me he loved me constantly even though I knew he didn't like to (he is gay, for one, and is uncomfortable telling anyone he loves them). I wanted to hang out all the time and just do nothing. And it was because of my father that I was so attached. My friend was the only man in my life that was nothing but good to me, and I was so worried that he would leave me like everyone else, that I subconsciously sabotaged our beautiful relationship. The point is, I realized I didn't like myself, and I completely understood why he didn't want to be my friend anymore. Basically, I realized that all the traits I hated about myself were the same ones I hated about my father. I realized I have "daddy issues", even though I thought cutting him out of my life would spare me from them. It was a really painful realization. So, I took the whole summer to try to change into someone I liked. I made a list of traits that I don't like about myself, and a list of traits that I wanted to have. I've learned to be independent and not rely on someone else to feel validated. And I think I've done pretty well. But now I've been thinking: I was told to get out of someone's life that I truly cared about, and it was devastating, but it was completely my fault. That hurts. But now I've changed, and I've decided that in October I'm going to try to talk to my friend again. It seems simple to try to talk to someone you were once so close to, but I feel pretty hopeless. He's really stubborn, and the last he knew of me, I was acting like a psycho. It seems like he would never want to hear me out, and I can't blame him for that. But I miss him so much.
Then I think about my father. The last time I heard from him he had written me a 9 page letter from a rehab when he was one or two months sober. I ignored it. Then, my mom recently tried to take him to court to garnish his checks if he ever gets a job, but she couldn't find out where he was living. Just last week she called him and surprisingly, he answered. He told her where he was living and said he was 26 months sober. He asked about my brother and me, and gave my mom his current address to send him the court papers.
I've been connecting what happened between my father and me to what happened to my friend and me, and it's so eerily similar. I've had this plan to write my father a letter and get all my feelings out and finally let all my hate go, but I wasn't going to send it because I didn't know where he was living. Now I've been thinking: was my mom getting his address a sign that I should send it? More importantly, is it a sign that I should open up a communication with him? I now know what it's like to lose someone because of your faults, and for the first time ever, I almost feel bad about cutting my father out of my life. The thing is, I don't want him back in my life. I don't want to talk to him. I know my life is better without him. He damaged me, and I can't remember the last time I felt love for him (if ever). But am I supposed to let him back into my life? I feel like I deserve what happened between me and my friend because I did the same thing to someone else. It doesn't make sense to never forgive my father, and at the same time expect my friend to forgive me. It doesn't make sense that someone should believe that I've become a better person, while I never give my father a chance to prove that he might have changed as well.
As you can see, I'm really, really confused right now. I'm looking in to attending some Al Anon meetings soon because I think people who have dealt with addicts can help me better than anyone. But before I do that, does anyone here have any advice on my situation?
Thanks so much if you read all of this.
Ann
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,407
Welcome to this site. Reading your post, I think you were wise to realize your Dad was causing you harm and you were best to move on without him. But I think you are seeing that even though you moved on, damage has been done. That is normal for children who deal with alcoholic parents, so don't be too hard on yourself for your own mistakes. I give you credit for realizing that your relationship with your Dad is impacting your relationship with your friend, and you want to make changes. It takes maturity to have that insight.
If you don't want him back in your life, and you don't want to talk to him (no one can blame you for either) then it's best to leave things as they are for now IMO. If your Dad is truly working on recovery, not just sober, then he will make amends when he's ready. In the meantime, if you want to forgive him, you can do that without making contact. That can be between you and your Higher Power, to set yourself free.
I would agree that AlAnon would be a great place for you. Also, read "The Language of Letting Go" by Melody Beattie. It's a daily reader and very powerful. Good Luck to you. Please keep posting, we understand the confusion of dealing with this powerful disease in our lives.
If you don't want him back in your life, and you don't want to talk to him (no one can blame you for either) then it's best to leave things as they are for now IMO. If your Dad is truly working on recovery, not just sober, then he will make amends when he's ready. In the meantime, if you want to forgive him, you can do that without making contact. That can be between you and your Higher Power, to set yourself free.
I would agree that AlAnon would be a great place for you. Also, read "The Language of Letting Go" by Melody Beattie. It's a daily reader and very powerful. Good Luck to you. Please keep posting, we understand the confusion of dealing with this powerful disease in our lives.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 85
Welcome nobodysdaughter. I think you are very wise and very brave and I don't know many 18 yr olds who have the insights you have. You learnt some hard lessons early on in life and experienced things that children should not have to and I'm sorry you went through that. Good on you for taking time to work on yourself and it sounds like a summer well spent. I think alanon would be great for you and you are already doing great work on yourself. I do think that forgiving people really helps us as someone put it holding resentments is like taking poison ourselves and waiting for the other person to die. You can forgive your father and release yourself from that hurt but you do not have to be in contact with him to do that. You may decide to have him in your life at some point but do it when you are sure and when YOU are ready. As for your friend I hope that he will appreciate the time you have taken to change your behaviour but we have no control over others. I think you are brilliant for what you have done and I hope your friend sees that. Best Wishes.
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
Welcome. God how I wish you could get to hang out with my kids. They have also chosen to have no contact with their abusive A father Nd would love to meet someone else in that situation - I think it would make them feel less crazy and abnormal!
You have every right to not have a relationship with your father. A person who did what he did to you does not deserve to have contact with you. As you know, alcoholics lie, and the only thing saying he's really been sober for over 2 years is his words to your mom.
If he had been in true recovery, HE would have contacted your mother to make amends and he would have started sending child support, if only a dollar a month. He wouldn't have to be taken back to court to do the right thing.
So that's what I'm thinking about part of it.
The other thing I'd ask you is... What are you expecting to accomplish by sending your father that letter? My oldest (who"a going on 20) wanted to write his father and I asked him the se thing: what result are you looking for, and what happens if you don't get it?
Are you writing the letter to once and for all get off your shoulders how much he has harmed you and how much it has affected your life negatively on the past seven years? And are you doing it because you hope for a specific reaction from him (just as you expect or hope for a different reaction from you'd estranged friend?)
I think before deciding to contact either of those men, I would want to know exactly what was hoping for, and also think about how I would react if what I hopes for didn't happen? Like, if you contact them and both of them basically say "why should I care you selfish, evil, lying brat? Don't contact me again or I will report you tot he cops as a stalker."??? (I'm using that as example because that's roughly what my son's father said when he contacted him.)
If you're contacting him because you just want him to know how much he hurt you and them you want to walk away, and don't care what his reaction is - maybe you should. I don't know. But does it matter to you that he knows? Or is it enough that you know?
As for your friend - I think the only way I would send a letter to him would be if I truly wanted to ask for forgiveness and didn't expect even a reply in return.
And then I think you're doing the smart thing by going to Al-Anon. Your relationship with your friend may be over forever - but if you find what behaviors you've learned in order to survive with an alcoholic parent, and learn how to stop using them - then you can avoid making the se mistakes in your next friendship. :x
You're a smart woman with a good head on your shoulders. Don't go it alone. Find a good Alanon group. Find a good Counselor if you can.
You have every right to not have a relationship with your father. A person who did what he did to you does not deserve to have contact with you. As you know, alcoholics lie, and the only thing saying he's really been sober for over 2 years is his words to your mom.
If he had been in true recovery, HE would have contacted your mother to make amends and he would have started sending child support, if only a dollar a month. He wouldn't have to be taken back to court to do the right thing.
So that's what I'm thinking about part of it.
The other thing I'd ask you is... What are you expecting to accomplish by sending your father that letter? My oldest (who"a going on 20) wanted to write his father and I asked him the se thing: what result are you looking for, and what happens if you don't get it?
Are you writing the letter to once and for all get off your shoulders how much he has harmed you and how much it has affected your life negatively on the past seven years? And are you doing it because you hope for a specific reaction from him (just as you expect or hope for a different reaction from you'd estranged friend?)
I think before deciding to contact either of those men, I would want to know exactly what was hoping for, and also think about how I would react if what I hopes for didn't happen? Like, if you contact them and both of them basically say "why should I care you selfish, evil, lying brat? Don't contact me again or I will report you tot he cops as a stalker."??? (I'm using that as example because that's roughly what my son's father said when he contacted him.)
If you're contacting him because you just want him to know how much he hurt you and them you want to walk away, and don't care what his reaction is - maybe you should. I don't know. But does it matter to you that he knows? Or is it enough that you know?
As for your friend - I think the only way I would send a letter to him would be if I truly wanted to ask for forgiveness and didn't expect even a reply in return.
And then I think you're doing the smart thing by going to Al-Anon. Your relationship with your friend may be over forever - but if you find what behaviors you've learned in order to survive with an alcoholic parent, and learn how to stop using them - then you can avoid making the se mistakes in your next friendship. :x
You're a smart woman with a good head on your shoulders. Don't go it alone. Find a good Alanon group. Find a good Counselor if you can.
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,218
Welcome to the forum, nododysdaughter ( is that a reference to the album by CL by any chance? If so, I'm a fan, too 
)
It's great to have the insights you have at a young age. You remind me of me in some ways, the way you are talking. I did not have the unfortunate experience of having alcoholic parents (I'm currently married to an alcoholic, however), but there was a lot of abuse in the house growing up, a lot of turmoil and chaos and negativity.
Please keep in mind that while the parallels you are drawing between the two situations (you/father and friend/you) are insightful and useful for sure, it is important to also consider some huge differences. I say this because if you are anything like me (and like I said the way you speak of this reminds me a lot of myself!) you may tend to over-think things, expect "bad karma", feel anxious and guilty over your imperfections to an unhealthy degree that ends up actually getting in your own way, etc.
The first major difference to consider is that you did not choose your father like friends can choose each other. Further, the nature of your relation is that he should be in a role of responsibility and guiding, and you should be in a role of a CHILD - growing, learning, maturing, etc. That's not how it played out. Even if you choose not to have a relationship, he is still going to remain your biological father, as opposed to a friendship. Not to minimize the impact of a friendship, mind you. It's just different in that way.
Another major difference is that the kind of experience you had with your father is going to affect you in a different way than a friendship that has a falling out has. This man, your father, was supposed to play a critical, crucial role in your young life and development that he did not play. This is not to say a friendship that falls apart doesn't affect those involved, but it's just on a different level.
It's great and commendable that you see the parallels here, in that you see another side now that you didn't see before. Also wonderful is that you gained self awareness of behaviors you displayed that could be improved upon. Better still, you seem to have a sense of what experiences in your life lead to those behaviors. This is a fantastic starting point from which to grow, mature, and gain not just knowledge but wisdom.
But I suspect it is more complex. "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." (Albert Einstein)
By this I mean, don't take on so much guilt that you get in your own way. This does have some similarities, but not being the best friend is not the same as not being there for your child. Don't take on that level of guilt.
Can I gently ask, do you/did you have more-than-just-a-friend feelings for this guy? I know you said he is gay, but regardless, if you did have romantic feelings for him that may have played a role here. Just something to consider before trying to contact him again. If you think you did/do have romantic feelings for him, try to differentiate between having romantic feelings for a man and wanting some kind of substitution for the father you should have had growing up. I know you did mention that you felt so attached to this guy because of issues with your father. I'm mentioning this so that you can hopefully avoid getting into romantic relationships in the future for the wrong reasons.
Can I also gently ask if the only reason you freaked out as you put it over your friend needing time to himself was because you didn't think he wanted to be your friend anymore, or could it perhaps have had to do with losing control of the friendship? I'm certainly not judging you to be clear. What were the things he was dealing with that you said you "didn't know about or consider" (if you are comfortable mentioning them that is)?
You mentioned making a list of personal traits about you that you didn't like and a list of one's you wanted to gain. That's good. Self awareness is always good...when balanced. How about you also make a list of traits you like, and do things to bring them out? Art, volunteer work, etc, whatever is relative to that list.
I hope you keep posting here! You might want to read or post in other forums on this site like ones for those in recovery from alcoholism or drug addiction. They may also be helpful in shedding light on things.
Your self awareness is wonderful, just be sure to balance out the positive side as well.
Peace.
)It's great to have the insights you have at a young age. You remind me of me in some ways, the way you are talking. I did not have the unfortunate experience of having alcoholic parents (I'm currently married to an alcoholic, however), but there was a lot of abuse in the house growing up, a lot of turmoil and chaos and negativity.
Please keep in mind that while the parallels you are drawing between the two situations (you/father and friend/you) are insightful and useful for sure, it is important to also consider some huge differences. I say this because if you are anything like me (and like I said the way you speak of this reminds me a lot of myself!) you may tend to over-think things, expect "bad karma", feel anxious and guilty over your imperfections to an unhealthy degree that ends up actually getting in your own way, etc.
The first major difference to consider is that you did not choose your father like friends can choose each other. Further, the nature of your relation is that he should be in a role of responsibility and guiding, and you should be in a role of a CHILD - growing, learning, maturing, etc. That's not how it played out. Even if you choose not to have a relationship, he is still going to remain your biological father, as opposed to a friendship. Not to minimize the impact of a friendship, mind you. It's just different in that way.
Another major difference is that the kind of experience you had with your father is going to affect you in a different way than a friendship that has a falling out has. This man, your father, was supposed to play a critical, crucial role in your young life and development that he did not play. This is not to say a friendship that falls apart doesn't affect those involved, but it's just on a different level.
It's great and commendable that you see the parallels here, in that you see another side now that you didn't see before. Also wonderful is that you gained self awareness of behaviors you displayed that could be improved upon. Better still, you seem to have a sense of what experiences in your life lead to those behaviors. This is a fantastic starting point from which to grow, mature, and gain not just knowledge but wisdom.
But I suspect it is more complex. "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." (Albert Einstein)
By this I mean, don't take on so much guilt that you get in your own way. This does have some similarities, but not being the best friend is not the same as not being there for your child. Don't take on that level of guilt.
Can I gently ask, do you/did you have more-than-just-a-friend feelings for this guy? I know you said he is gay, but regardless, if you did have romantic feelings for him that may have played a role here. Just something to consider before trying to contact him again. If you think you did/do have romantic feelings for him, try to differentiate between having romantic feelings for a man and wanting some kind of substitution for the father you should have had growing up. I know you did mention that you felt so attached to this guy because of issues with your father. I'm mentioning this so that you can hopefully avoid getting into romantic relationships in the future for the wrong reasons.
Can I also gently ask if the only reason you freaked out as you put it over your friend needing time to himself was because you didn't think he wanted to be your friend anymore, or could it perhaps have had to do with losing control of the friendship? I'm certainly not judging you to be clear. What were the things he was dealing with that you said you "didn't know about or consider" (if you are comfortable mentioning them that is)?
You mentioned making a list of personal traits about you that you didn't like and a list of one's you wanted to gain. That's good. Self awareness is always good...when balanced. How about you also make a list of traits you like, and do things to bring them out? Art, volunteer work, etc, whatever is relative to that list.
I hope you keep posting here! You might want to read or post in other forums on this site like ones for those in recovery from alcoholism or drug addiction. They may also be helpful in shedding light on things.
Your self awareness is wonderful, just be sure to balance out the positive side as well.
Peace.
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,218
Forgot to mention, in regard to the conflicting issues of wanting to release thoughts and feelings from within you but not really wanting to open the lines of communication or foster a relationship with your father: write that letter. Or letters. Get it all out. ALL of it. You don't have to send it to him. The process itself could be helpful regardless of him receiving it to read. This could be a good middle ground that gives you both.
Peace
Peace
Bunnies!
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,905
I'm just going to say welcome and agree with what's been mentioned above. You do seem to have a good head on your shoulders, and that's a great thing. Growing up ACOA doesn't always help us turn out that way. Your father will contact you as part of his recovery if he wants to make amends. I really don't see theneed to seek him out. If he's working his program, it will show itself to you in time.
Awesome Hole album, btw. I saw Courtney live a few years ago and she rocked my socks off. Great show.
Awesome Hole album, btw. I saw Courtney live a few years ago and she rocked my socks off. Great show.
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