Lulu39

My XAH is a born liar. He lies about anything and everything.

His mother is a born liar and an alcoholic so he probably learned it from her. He hates her for it and yet he does it too!

As for the lies my XAH tells my kids, the kids believe the lies and it burns me up.

Example: XAH does not pay bills. Ever.

He sees bills as a personal affront. "How DARE these people demand money from me! I'll show them!" So stuff gets cut off.

XAH managed to live apart from us in his hovel for about 3 months (don't fret - he is still living apart!) before his home phone, internet and cell phone were all cut off. On the same day. By the same company (he had a deal/plan/bundle).

XAH told and still tells the kids that he "chose" to have his home phone, Internet and cell phone disconnected and it was a "lifestyle choice" because "I hate the Internet, it's so impersonal".

My kids are in total freaking denial. They BELIEVE the sh*t he spins.

He can't give them the $$ he promised them (personal $$ not child support) because he doesn't have the Internet so he can't do Internet banking. He has the Internet at work where he does his Internet banking and he is just a LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE.

I need a tattoo on my forehead which says "DADDY LIES". It might stop me biting my tongue over and over again to not slag that loser b*st*rd off in front of my kids.

Elis

I have the same problem. My ex tells our 4 year old daughter "You can come over this weekend" when he knows that is not going to happen. He tells her that he will buy her things and they never appear. But of course, he blames me for all of this. UUGGGHHHH!!

Jazzman

My ex husband (Ms ex really but might as well have been mine too) stopped paying HOA dues so his kids could never use the pool when they were at his house. He didn't pay back taxes that were filed jointly either but he bought the youngest a $2500 doll house and takes all three to Disney. Meanwhile the IRS and HOA are freezing Ms accounts and filing judgments against her for crap he didn't pay.

choublak

Does he still have that fancy car?

Hammer

Hey lulu,

An observation. You know we have had MAJOR lying problems from Mrs. Hammer, and I have been WAY open with the kids about all.

You had sort of taken me to task a little bit on that, about telling the kids the full real truth, and them sort of laughing about the 100 Lies in 100 Days "God Box" that we did.

I know that was odd, being open and letting the kids laugh about it, since I went a little off AA/Alanon script, and instead went with NAMI's (National Institute for Mental Illness) best practices -- When dealing with Mental Illness issues, you have to very open and honest with the kids.

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Here is some of that:

NAMI: National Alliance on Mental Illness | Home

THE TRUTH BOUNDARY

The Well Spouse must categorically refuse to hide the illness from children, extended family and friends. Only if the MIS [Mentally Ill Spouse] is working is there justification for hiding the illness, and then only from work colleagues. Not telling creates enormous isolation. Not telling and talking creates enormous confusion for children. Not telling and talking prevents education. Not telling and talking prevents development of good coping skills. No Family Secrets! No Stigma! This is a biological brain disorder. It is an Illness, like any other.


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So around here in the Hammer-house, we all know that Mrs. Hammer has some Major Issues with lying. Well, maybe all of us except Mrs. Hammer, and she would lie about it, anyway.

When I get in, that is a part of what the kids go over -- This week's lies and what the truth is. Overall, I am pretty tired of it. Big part of why we are on Countdown. 99 days at this point.

Here are some other considerations, and there are typically measurable brain differences, as well. Can go into this deeper, if desired.

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Compulsive Lying - Truth About Deception

A compulsive liar will resort to telling lies, regardless of the situation. Again, everyone lies from time to time (see, when lovers lie), but for a compulsive liar, telling lies is routine. It becomes a habit - a way of life.

Simply put, for a compulsive liar, lying becomes second nature.

Not only do compulsive liars bend the truth about issues large and small, they take comfort in it. Lying feels right to a compulsive liar. Telling the truth, on the other hand, is difficult and uncomfortable.

And like any behavior which provides comfort and an escape from discomfort (i.e., alcohol, drugs, sex), lying can become addictive and hard to stop. For the compulsive liar, lying feels safe and this fuels the desire to lie even more.

Making matters even more complicated, compulsive lying is often a symptom of a much larger personality disorder, which only makes the problem more difficult to resolve (see, narcissistic personality disorder and borderline personality disorder).

spiderqueen

I'm with Hammer on this one.

My ex husband (not an A) and father of my teenage girls often accuses me of "over-sharing"; Yup - guilty as charged. I've told them right upfront that he hasn't paid child support or spousal support for going on 8 months now. I don't vilify him, mind you. This is just straight up truth stuff. Why we can't buy anything extra, go on trips. Why I am working more hours to make ends meet. Why I'm a little crispy sometimes about money......

Also, as regards my XABF, I have "over-shared" about his addiction, apparently. Oops. There I go again, teaching my teenagers about a huge problem in society that they damn well better get acquainted with. (Famous saying in AA - "I don't have a problem! So DON'T TELL ANYONE!")

My eldest is almost 16 and has thanked me repeatedly for my openness and honesty.

Hey, that reminds me; we talk about Human Sexuality too. Dang, there I go AGAIN!!!

SQ

thislonelygirl

They lie to their kids to their boss to their partner to their parents to friends.
I don't think there's anyone they don't lie too they even lie to themselves.
One day the kids will see it but they want to believe him.
We all want to believe them but eventually we realize we shouldn't.

Lulu39

It went POOF!

Lulu39

My kids know that he is an addict because I tell them however, I don't know if they believe it yet. They believe some parts - they know the experience of peace which they have in our home now. They are relieved that for almost a year we have not been woken up by his slamming doors, starting fires and setting off the smoke alarms and singing loudly to rock music at 2am.

choublak

Just like his phone and internet.

Hammer

I am sorry, but I do not recall your children's ages, Lulu.

Ours are 6, (just about) 9 -- both boys, and our daughter is 11.

They have varying degrees of what they can handle. Talking about the "practical education" of these matters.

For our stuff -- Mrs. Hammer going to rehab for the Eating Disorder -- Daughter and I watched some Youtube Videos together. About some girls who recovered from EDs, so she could know the hope and recovery side of things and an Amy Winehouse demise video, so she could know the risk.

Just to clear your mind, no matter what you do, some folks will always be yelling at you that you are telling the kids too much, and some yelling not enough. I would recommend ignoring both sides -- and instead tailor stuff to what fits your kids -- you know them best.

Like I say, for me -- I will no longer Lie or Cover for Mrs. Hammer, and use the NAMI guidelines.

We all did a set of songs for a return party -- Welcome Home from Rehab (happy knock off of Amy Winehouse's -- Tried to Make Me Go to Rehab) and the Addicts Family (Addams Family Theme Song reworked with various addictions). The kids had great fun with writing and practicing those, but Mrs. Hammer was such a basketcase on return from Rehab, we cancelled all that. But we would sing the songs together at dinner while she was gone, and they would all laugh and be my brave little troops.

The hacker-T folks at the Rehab center botched her Mental Illness parts. They stopped the ED Addiction, but had No Idea what they were dealing with on the rest. She has been whirling since.

The kids figured out pretty quick that she is not quite right on the lying stuff, but the middle boy so much wants Mom to be all "better," that he comes around and tells us all how great she is doing. I just tell him that he is a Very Good and Loyal Scout. First time he asked me about her lying he was in his Cub Scout uniform, and it broke my heart.

Mrs. Hammer genuinely scares our daughter, and she has made me promise to take her if something happens to "us." Daughter even has backup plans with an Aunt if something were to happen to me. What surprised me was a conversation started by the 6 year old. He wanted me to promise to "keep him" if Momma relapsed. I have No Idea where he got that part from, but I told him I would. I do not press ANY of this with the soon-to-be 9 year old, as he just wants to be a "Loyal Scout," and have things all better.

Things maybe you can use for your kids -- maybe try Alateen for them. Our 11 year old LOVES it, and they have taught her some good coping skills. She is such a leader/over-achiever, she is now working with other kids and helping them. If Mrs. Hammer were well, she would be soooo proud of her -- our Lil' Social Worker, and all. Back in happier times Mrs. Hammer worked with inner city gang kids and she loved those kids, and they loved her.

As things are, Mrs. Hammer (still in Always All About Mrs. Hammer mode) is ashamed that our Daughter goes to Alateen and sometimes still tries to thwart it. The 9 year old has asked to start, as well. 9 is the lower cut-off age for Alateen. Birthday is this Saturday. May take him Sunday night. Dunno.

I guess I would also "educate" your kids on their dad's specific Addictions and Alcoholism. I bet there are some good Youtubes on that. Maybe someone can suggest some, or we can go shopping.

So on we go -- by God's Grace.

NWGRITS

Kids know more than anyone gives them credit for. The problem is in the processing, which is simply a matter of brain development. Around age 12 or so, things start to click and a lot of ish starts making sense. Kids are also torn between the devil they know (dysfunctional family) and the devil they don't (family minus one). I believe in telling them the truth, but no need to go into details. I tell my kids that their Mimi is sick and she has an addiction to alcohol. Explaining addiction to a 9, 8, 7, and 5-year-old is bare bones. Nothing fancy. The baby just sits there and drools, so I think she's ok for now. But I definitely wouldn't hide things or sugarcoat it. They'll figure it out for themselves eventually.

PippiLngstockng

Back a million years ago, before Al-Anon, I used to avoid Stbxah and pray to God he wouldn't drink and we wouldn't fight ever again. And I would tell myself if I didn't see him drinking, then maybe he wasn't.

Then one day 'click' Ah drove drunk with my boy in the car and I woke up.

No more praying it ain't so and hiding from the truth for me or my children.

We had a lot of hope initially that by identifying the problem it would all get better. That lasted a couple of months. Until Ah threatened me in front of my little ones.

Since then, the truth is hard. They go between believing me (dad is an alcoholic and isn't providing us with enough money to get by) and him ( mom overspends, exaggerates and is overly sensitive/crazy). I keep telling them the truth.

He is so calm when he lies. He is utterly believable. I am so upset by the truth. I am sometimes very angry and sometimes very sad.

It would be so much easier if AH was not such a skilled manipulator, liar and cheat. But this makes it all the more important for me to confirm the truth for the children.

This is just plainly an unhealthy situation for the children. I just have to be there for the children. Be loving, be real, be truthful. And trust that time will tell and later they will be glad that they could count on me to at least there when they need me. I may not always be as calm or as charming and confident as their dad. But I am real.

Hammer

We do an open budget for those games.

After Mrs. Hammer spent all our money on Rehab, and then continued to spend past that -- therapy, coffee out, etc. -- all the while refusing to show up for work (easy stuff, substitute teaching -- openings every day) she tried the money victim routines, as well.

Left us broke across Christmas, and she spent the day after screaming at me in front of the kids after I caught her hiding money, while she was pretending I did not give her any money for Therapy. Fortunately, I written everything before hand, because I was trying make certain everything was covered. Had the cleared checks and everything. She was still calling people to lie about that for weeks after, as well.

Then I caught her trying to change payments on Therapy receipts, as well. Took us until 2 months after return from Rehab to get caught up, and by then I was running an open family budget published so that the kids could track to help stop her lies.

Mrs. Hammer started screaming about that, too. She called the open family budget "Financially Incestuous" that the kids would know where our money went, and that we still did have enough money for groceries, but not enough money for her to goof off with. She was running around lying about that, too, to anyone who would listen.

wow. This is some sick crap. No wonder I put it that stuff in the 100 Lies God Box. Suppose I should not be dragging it out.

At any rate, the Open Family Budget lets everyone/anyone know the full and open truth.

allysen

My XAH is a liar too. My kids are ages 4 and 10months. I like to think as long as I teach them right from wrong, and the value of honesty, that they will be able to figure things out for themselves as they grow up. In the meantime though, I'm sure there will be lots of ups and downs, especially when XAH breaks his promises to them. His lying is just another one of the things I am powerless over.

spiderqueen

Had to pull out this gem. Couldn't have said it better. Always trust YOUR instincts as their sane and sober parent, first and foremost.

And if you are really feeling troubled or uncertain about what to say/how to say it, consult with a qualified, professional family therapist.

Hammer

Well . . . . sat down across the table last night.

Asked her about cleaning up her lies, and that I think she needs some real help.

She said -- she was deeply hurt by the things I said.

I said -- What was that?

She said -- That she has a lying problem.

I said -- I would not say that if there were no lies.

She said -- there were/are no lies.

I said -- what about [insert general purpose well broadcast lie, that I heard back the same from different sources]?

She said -- that never happened. I did not say that.

I said -- how can that be?

She said -- we may have to break up over this.

I said -- addicts will always choose their addiction over people.

and I went to bed.

Could have gone better.

But I did kiss her good-bye in the morning.

Dunno at this point if she thinks lying about lying will cover the lies -- or if she is really this brain-damaged.

NWGRITS

Speaking from a couple decades of experience with an AM, I can say that they really do think they are great at this CYA thing. They think they are brilliant and that when they spout off their stories, that everything is gravy. They truly believe it. It's incredible, really. I've had to pick my jaw up off the floor more than enough times with my AM. She can tell some real whoppers. I've been No Contact for 14 months, but the grapevine tells me now and again that she's getting even more creative as the days go by.

Hammer

Our 11 year-old Daughter uses very nearly those same terms -- "Mom has a Very Creative Imagination."

I am trying to get Daughter focused on College Prep -- Math and Science in particular. She is interested in Pre-Med, and to nail that she HAS to know Math up through Calculus/DEQ and Science up through Organic Chemistry. Those are the two big Wipe-Out areas.

Trying to get her launched and flying by 16.

She asks, can she do that? I say, Yes, and she says then she will.

Daughter has also told me . . . if you two are still together, by the time I finish college . . . you will probably not see much of me. I may come home and visit every other Christmas or so.

All good and I fully understand.

God, please just let my little birdie fly. Fly, birdie, fly.

NWGRITS

The best years of my life prior to my husband getting orders to the other side of the country were when I was in college. I was 3.5 hours from home, but I was that kid who never left campus. It was so liberating. And then I got sick with a debilitating chronic illness and had to drop out and go home for medical care. Remission off-and-on, five kids, and one heaven sent set of PCS orders later, I'm almost a fully functioning human being again. I still thank the Good Lord every day for sending us 3,000 miles from my FOO. Overseas would be even better, but Washington is beautiful and I can be proud to be pale Irish here.