trixie56

Hi all,

I'm pretty new to learning about alcoholism and am trying to understand more about it. I've read here on SR and elsewhere that usually alcoholics feel a lot of guilt and/or shame regarding their addiction. I was hoping to get some feedback/clarification on this. Do alcoholics generally feel guilt or shame while they are in active addiction, or is it generally when/if they get sober? Do they typically feel guilt/shame as they are in the process of mistreating someone, and they just push those feelings aside to protect their addiction?

I've been wondering mostly because my XABF never appeared or sounded guilty or ashamed when he ditched me for beer or got defensive and mean. In fact, he often had a smirk on his face, as if he enjoyed it. This side of him became more prevalent as he began drinking again. Last time I saw him, he spent most of our day together putting me down, I think in an effort to make himself feel superior. Then, he vanished, as if I never existed....The week before that he 'really wanted things to work out' between us. I realize I can't try to make sense of everything, but this whole guilt/shame thing intrigues me.

BoxinRotz

My AH has told me that he uses and has used alcohol (vodka because it hits him harder n faster) to numb his pain. The drink has wrecked his life and he feels/felt emense guilt over letting it wreck his son's n ex-wife's life and whoever else came after them and now me. He feels as though he is getting rid of guilt by drinking it away and numbing it. He can not process sadness, anger, life changes, or anything that has to do with negative effects on the psych without the drink. He has NO IDEA how to sort through normal human emotions of having a messed up day like, lets say, you n me.

What he also fails to realize is that the guilt n pain he's covering up with the alcohol, is causing more guilt n pain due to the alcohol and what you have, is a vicious cycle of dominoes and it keeps going and going and going.

I just had a discussion with AH this afternoon about guilt. I told him if he wants to stop that he is going to have to deal with the guilt and separate it and then get rid of it without numbing it. When it's numb, it's numb. It doesn't go anywhere and once the drink is worn off, it's still there and look... nothing was done with it. It wasn't effectively dealt with.

HELLOOOOOOOOO!!!! STILL HERE!!!!!!!!

LexieCat

Depends. Depends on whether the alcoholic is an abusive person by nature, or whether the harm he or she inflicts is just a form of collateral damage from the addiction.

trixie56

Can you explain that a bit more? I'm taking that as an abusive person by nature probably might not feel guilt or shame, whereas a person who inflicts pain more unintentionally (?) would feel the guilt/shame?

trixie56

Thank you, that was really helpful. I never got to talk to my ex about why he was drinking, but I do know he held onto a 'partier' identity. Every now and then I'd see his low self esteem/insecurity peek through, and I began to see that his partying probably wasn't all light-hearted and fun like he portrayed it. Also, he seemed totally unable to handle my emotions. His first reaction was to minimize what I was feeling and he could never accept responsibility/blame. He probably had trouble dealing with emotions himself, so how could he deal with mine? Makes sense.

LexieCat

An abusive person isn't going to be feeling guilt--basically because they have a great sense of entitlement to act the way they do.

Non-abusive alcoholics are often basically decent people, who have gotten derailed by their addiction. I think they quite often feel guilt and remorse, though they might hide it by denying what they have done (so they don't have to face it).

PippiLngstockng

Trixie,
I got the smirking face, too. I think my stbxah got pleasure from getting me really upset and angry. The more I engaged, the more it fed him.

Seeing him feel guilt and remorse would be lovely. But that wish has faded as an impossible dream.

Now I dream about financial stability and independence.

Then stbxah would become more and more irrelevant.

I do hope he gets his in the end. But the bad guy often wins, at least regarding superficial matters.

It's scary to realize some people do horrible things and have no guilt. Cold blooded crooks of kind people's lives and love.

If you have someone smirking when they upset you, my advice would be to plan very carefully - then run!

thislonelygirl

Yes they can. Like above mentioned it depends on the person.
Some are abusive in nature
Some are in such denial they dont feel guilty because they havent really done anything wrong or out of ordinary and then you have the alcoholic who is deep in addiction that they know they've done wrong because of alcohol but continue to drink to ease what theyve done. This never works however and the guilt keeps piling on as they continue to drink. A viscious cycle.
Feeling guilty does not get an alcoholic sober however it is necessary to feel the pain enough to want help and work through it without alcohol. Coping without alcohol.
But pain and guilt isnt always enough.....and so you have a no bottom drunk.

thislonelygirl

And my ah is the guilty drinker. He crued the other day sober when I blew up at him about everything . He has responded to this before by getting mad back but it was a ploy to protect his alcohol and live in denial

spiderqueen

Hey Trixie:
My XABF feels primarily self-loathing and contempt (perhaps what he was attempting to numb with alcohol in the first place?), and is not abusive by nature. So his guilt/remorse/sorrow following binges and the disturbing behavior that accompanies them is quite sincere.

IMO, failing to address the underlying issues is one major reason for his failed attempts at recovery. Very sad.
SQ

Mango blast

1) When an alcoholic is in *complete* denial, what do they have to feel shameful or guilty about? The brain is acting on different impulses.

2) When admitting there is a problem, there may be shame or guilt.

1 and 2 can go round and round. I agree, trying to drown out shame and guilt with more drinking can be common. Sometimes, what that person should feel guilty for has been seen and felt through an alcoholic haze and is twisted to feel no shame or guilt for it at all. They may feel justified with things they've done, even after they're sober.

3) In recovery, hopefully the person learns to deal with any shame and guilt and move forward in dealing with it and/or letting it go. If we can learn from the past, we don't need to get stuck in it.

LifeRecovery

In my own addictive process.....

My drug of choice was in place as a barrier or wall so I did not HAVE to feel the hard, "bad" stuff.

It was in place from a young age and it was more about avoiding those feelings (not even having them if I could help it) then a cycle of guilt, stopping it by using etc.

I did however have guilt and SHAME about the fact that I could not stop engaging in my drug of choice, and that alone often kept me on the rollarcoaster.

I hope that helps.

soberhawk

It is not that easy question and in reality when you look at an alcoholic booth the alcohol and the person is bringing something to the table.

Every alcoholic will have a different state of mind drinking than not drinking this will lead to some psychological unbalance that will express it self as guilt and anxiety.

Some people will do things when drunk they would not when sober this will also lead to anxiety, guilt and shame.

And there can bee some dynamics with hiding it, refuse it, deny it and all kind of different games that can lead to various feelings.

And then there is a LexieCat puts it collateral damage which can also lead to guilt and shame.

I have never had the need to engage with others when drinking so I did not need to worry about what I had done but as you run in a cycle drunk/sober it will give some guilt and anxiety feeling.

I have been a single parent and I have not supported my sons as I should trough their teens, alcohol makes you numb and self centered. I do feel guilt for this, but that is in reality not a psychological unbalance, it is a fact I did this and this feeling will be with me. There is a difference between a psychological feeling of guilt and being guilty.

My father was a drunk, rather aggressive and unpredictable when drunk, but apparently also very charming, he had 10 kids with 4 different women (I must though admit I never understood what those woman saw in him). I can not remember ever have met him without some woman taking care of him. It did not burden him much to have put all this kids into existents and keep on drinking without taking care of his kids and being a ******* most of the time – his dominant feelings were anxiety and self pity as sober, as far as I saw it at least.

Alcohol addiction brings some dynamics into the picture but how they express them selfs also depends on the personality of the drinker, in my experience at least.

In reality if you are young and planning of having kids, there is nothing to be learned by alcoholism – you should just stay away from it if you can.

Flicka57

Hi Trixie56:
Your question is indeed hard to answer as I see from the previous posts. I would guess that ultimately it depends on the A's personality about guilt and shame as to how they feel during drinking and when sober. Mine was an abusive type and I highly doubt he had any shame over the horrible things he did. His actions to initiate divorce causing me to lose health insurance may soon cost me my life and he tells people I deserved it??? But others I'm sure feel shame, guilt, remorse. But in my lifetime one thing I have noticed is that anyone A or not when they near the end of their life all suddenly feel the remorse for what they did to themselves and others. The smart ones see their mistakes, stop it and make amends where as the abusive ones or not so bright ones don't figure it out until their life is almost over.