netta1966

My husband is one of the kindest people you'll meet and is a functional alcoholic. I've separated from him a month ago but we see and talk almost everyday. He hasn't shown a consistensy with trying to quit. The days he chooses to go to the AA meetings are the days that he's sober. So, thanks to my Al-Anon meetings and advice from you all on this site, i'm doing better. I have not come back home yet. I love him but i'm not sure what to do.
During the seven years he drank, it progressed to worse and worse. I've dealt with the emotional abuse but no physical. A few times, he would drink the "cheap wine" MD 20/20 and it makes him crazy. He's broken a window, drove like crazy, slammed doors, started fights, etc. But what hurts me the most, is my rock bottom was last month when he went crazy with me. He said on the phone to me when i left, he was going to murder me and burn down the house and at the same time cursing me out. This is very much out of character for him. Never has he said anything to me like that sober. I need to know a way to really discuss this with him and tell him why this is one reason i cannot live with him if he drinks period. Cause i'm not sure what he's capable of doing if he goes nuts again. Should i worry that he meant what he said or was just a scare tactic while under his drunken state to get me back home.
i mentioned this to him not long after this happen and he couldn't remember what he said.

Thanks for your help, Netta

LexieCat

You SHOULD take it seriously. In fact, if I were you I would be getting a restraining order. Trying to reason with someone who would make such threats (and most alcoholics would not make those kinds of threats--only those who are abusive and might carry them out) is an exercise in futility at best, and dangerous at worst.

Maybe he doesn't remember saying those things. It isn't an excuse. He knew what he was saying when he said it, even if he doesn't remember it now. Blackouts don't make people do things they didn't intend to do.

At the very least, call the DV hotline or your local shelter and talk to an advocate who can help you with safety planning.

EnglishGarden

My former AH was the same: a lovely man sober and a volatile, raging man drunk.

What we learn in recovery is that alcoholics hear what we do, not what we say.

My feeling is that if you try to get him to understand your feelings, to empathize with you, to change in order to make you feel safe, and to really comprehend why he is a danger to your emotional and physical well-being, it will be a waste of your time. I am sorry to say that, but in active addiction, heartfelt words from loved ones almost never create change in the alcoholic.

You have one course of action and one course of action only: to make choices in your life to ensure your own sanity, safety, and security. Living with an alcoholic who is actively drinking will accomplish none of those.

You matter. Do not make him matter more than you do. Do not sacrifice your basic right to a stable existence for his sake, for his feelings, for his refusal to stand on his own two feet and deal with his addiction on his own.

It is not uncommon for alcoholics in a blackout drunken tirade to threaten to do away with their spouses.

But in my opinion, it should be taken seriously. My AH's threats led to him striking me one day, and that, for me, was the end of the marriage. I never gave him another opportunity for violence.

He may want your pity. He may want you to mother him. He may want you to sacrifice your life for him.

When he does so, it is Addiction asking those things of you. It has nothing to do with love.

spiderqueen

Hi Netta,
I am so sorry for what you are suffering through with your AH.

My X alcoholic boyfriend is a brilliant, sweet, tender, charming, loving, creative man when not drinking. Drunk, he flip flops between the following:

1. despondent, helpless, suicidal wreck
2. ranting misogynist (woman hater)
3. belligerent, self-absorbed victim of the world

His physical body morphs as well (just like with Mr. Hyde), and what was an athletic, graceful, sexy man turns into a staggering, awkward, caricature who wets himself.

And like your husband, he doesn't remember any of it the next day.

If you continue to read here on SR, and educate yourself elsewhere as I have done (Alanon, individual therapy), you will find that the Jekyll/Hyde phenomenon is very real indeed.

Please take his threats seriously, and take steps to protect yourself.
SQ

PippiLngstockng

Mr Hyde threatened me in front of the children last fall. And he meant it. Scared me so intensely it took me the better of a year to get a hold of myself and come down from the fear. Got a dv counsellor, a restraining order, and separation.

I had no choice but to take Hyde seriously. He was serious.

Jekyll is what Hyde thinks he might still be. In his denial, not seeing what he has become.

Or what he always was.

Doesn't matter anymore. I'm moving on.

netta1966

Thank you for your responses. I need to hear this. Really helpful advice.
Right now, I refuse to go back to him while he is "actively drinking." However, if he shows he really wants to get sober and really works at recovery, how do i protect myself should he ever relapse while i'm there and Mr. Hyde comes out again. How do you get pass that.

Florence

Never forget, Jekyll and Hyde are the same guy. One package. You want one, you get the other.

You don't need to tell him anything. He tipped his hand, you know what's in his heart when he's drinking. Now, you just don't go home as long as he's drinking and not pursuing a recovery program like a drowning man after a life raft.

You don't have to inform him or confer with him about anything. Your very life is at stake. Please treat it this way. It's not any less serious because he was under the influence.

LexieCat

Again, if it were me, I would not come home unless and until he is not only sober, but has successfully completed a batterer's intervention program. This is different from "anger management". BIPs focus on the sense of entitlement and power and control dynamics that underlie abusive behavior. The bottom line is that he feels it's OK to threaten you if you aren't behaving the way he wants you to. Maybe he's able, when he's sober, to realize that expressing those feelings will be bad for HIM. But the drinking lowers those inhibitions, so he gives them full rein. The attitudes that cause him to believe that he is entitled to threaten you are what need to be addressed. IN ADDITION to the alcohol issue.

dandylion

Dear netta, it is so important to know what you are dealing with--with this disease of alcoholism. Now, that you are not living with him, I suggest that you begin with the materials at the top of this page---there is a wealth of information collected into one place. Also, there are some classic books that are suggested and the ones by Melody Beattie are at the top of the list.

I would say that the majority of people living with alcoholism know very little about the disease and what to expect from an alcoholic--even though they may have been living with the consequences for a long time. Much of it is contrary to the normal "logic" of how to live in a normal healthy relationship.

There is a big difference between being "dry" and being truly sober. It would be good if you know the difference. It is not enough to just stop drinking for a few weeks or months.

Living with an active alcoholic always has a detrimental effect on those who love the alcoholic. Alanon is there as a shelter from the storm---a place to help heal from the damage done to friends and family of those who have suffered from their loved one's alcoholism.

I am so sorry that you are going through this. Many have walked this same path before you, and understand like few others can.

You will survive this. You are not alone.

netta, I think it would be wise for you to heed the warnings regarding your safety that have been posted above. These voices are the voices of experience.

sincerely,
dandylion

Lyssy

Read "Why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft

Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men: Lundy Bancroft: 9780425191651: Amazon.com: Books

netta1966

Thanks again. This is sooo hard for me. It's devastating and i don't know if im strong enough to do this. It seem like this disease just crept up a little at a time like a curse. I was blind to the fact that his drinking was progressing for the past seven years of our marraige. When he wasn't drinking much or on his sober days, we were happy, did alot of bike riding, walking and going places. I thought he was the man i was meant to be with. Never any abuse. I guess its the Alcoholism that gave him the multiple personalities which are the times i didn't want to be around him. I'm going to keep praying for guidance and i will check out the information on this site, which so far has been very helpful. Thank you , Netta

NYCDoglvr

It is more common than not for alcoholics to change dramatically when they drink. Not all become rage-a-holics or threaten other people, some just get self-pitying and maudlin. They don't see the change, they blame it on other people. They blame it on YOU ... I drink because you .... pick any reason, it doesn't matter.

If I were you I'd get a restraining order. It doesn't matter if he remembers what he said or did, but don't take a chance on your life and well-being.

izzyrose05

Honey, My alcoholic ex was an angel when he was sober. True blue gentleman and never had any man treat me so well. When he drank he became an almost psychotic monster. Threatening to murder himself, and me..and one day he beat me and it went on for over 10 minutes. I remember laying on the floor while he kicked me over and over in an unimaginable rage wondering if I was going to survive to see my kids again. He literally picked me up and threw me out of his door. Believe it or not, I helped him get sober AGAIN after that. Because I knew how wonderful he was when he was sober. But honey, if he is getting out of control with verbal abuse and threats, I guess, I don't see why you should take any further risk. It could definitely go further. There is no control when they are like that. Mine didn't remember hurting me when he got sober. Not sure if he blocked it out or truly didn't remember. Either way, if there is no ownership of the behavior and no real ability to work a program, it sounds like you would be taking an extraordinary risk to yourself if you were to go back.

I am scared for you. He may not be as bad as mine was, but doesn't sound like he is too far away either. Why take that risk with your life. Please keep yourself out of danger. Your life is not worth any relationship.

Good luck to you on this very tough journey!!!

Wavy

The two possible options are he threatened you because he meant it and wants to hurt you, or he threatened you to frighten you in order to get his own way. Either way is that the behaviour of someone you are supposed to feel loved by or safe with?

My STBXABF threatened me and threatened to hurt my family more times than I like to remember.He also went on to hurt me, even trying to suffocate me. He had me behaving how he wanted because I was scared of him. I put up with it because I loved the 'good' him so much and wanted to do everything I could to get the good him to stay. But good him and bad him are one and the same and I can't choose one of them. He doesn't remember hurting me, ever. I think that's why he can't understand why I am so deeply affected by it. But just because he can't remember doesn't change that what happened was not ok and now I have more value for myself I can see that.

lillamy

Babe, Lexie is so right. The last thing you should worry about is discussing this with him. Get a restraining order. Death threats are strong warning signs.

Http://marincourt.org/PDF/LethalityRisk.pdf

PippiLngstockng

The kindest person you ever met isn't someone who threatens to kill you, luv. I know, my stbxah seems like the nicest person, too. Until the divorce procedures started. Now that he isn't getting what he wants, he is a Hyde, drunk and sober, day and night.

Instead of talking to him every day, talk to your friends, family, Al Anon, a dv counsellor - anyone you can trust.

You want to talk to your friend, Jekyll. But He's also Hyde.

It would be different if he were pouring his heart and soul into getting help. My AH started going to a few AA meetings after I threw him out of the house. That only lasted until the emergency separation. Then he discovered he was only a 'moderate social drinker'.

Fill your life with everything and everyone you love and trust. Let them take over and give you the companionship and support you need at this critical juncture.

Abuse and alcoholism are both progressive. There will be a calm after the storm, but tensions will build and eventually - things get worse than the last episode of abuse.

This isn't what you want to have happen. But trust your higher power and make yourself a new safe and loving home in the world.

honeypig

netta, so many have shared their experience w/abuse and violence. I hope you take this advice to heart; the people who posted it know what they're talking about.

I would also recommend that you get involved in Alanon sooner rather than later. Here's a link to help you find meetings http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/ This will be a great source of education and support for you, not to mention real-life friends who can do for you things that we on the forum can't, simply b/c we aren't there in the real world to give you a couch to sleep on or help moving your things out of the house.

I understand about feeling stunned, having all your romantic fantasies crash and burn. It's really tough to come to grips with, feels like the ground is just crumbling under your feet. Truly, though, the colder and harder look you can take at the REALITY of what's going on, not the potential of what it could be, not the hope of what you wanted it to be, the more your way forward will seem clear.

Wishing you both strength and clarity. And again, please do listen to the advice of those saying to protect yourself.

thislonelygirl

Wait till hes sober to discuss with for one. Say what you mean and mean whst you say. D I ntlet him bully you to no say how you feel abd then get the heck out of there

ShootingStar1

Having lived for 20 years with my XAH, who went into rages when drunk - not physical, but devastating verbal attacks - here's what I've come to think.

There are people who carry a lot of rage within them, all the time. When they are in control, you don't necessarily see it - they feel lots of other emotions, and can express those emotions and not the rage. They can seem and behave like a normal happy person.

To me, it's like a pot on the stove. It may be full of rage, but it's on a back burner, and the burner is off and the cover is on, and you forget it's there.

Sometimes, though, the burner gets turned on full strength and rage is there, and it all heats up and boils and the lid comes off and it boils over, uncontrollable.

There are two things to remember: you never have control of whether that burner is off, on simmer, or on boil. And, once it is on boil, you have no way to turn it off.

In my experience, alcohol turns up the heat faster than about anything else.

And, in retrospect, I could see when it was starting to simmer. Nasty comments about other drivers, picking little fights with salespeople, little criticisms of me, yelling at the dogs for being annoying dogs, little stuff that showed a greater than necessary displeasure with the usual annoyances of life.

Then it would get hotter - more direct criticism of me, of family members, of political figures, you name it. Rants about the idiocy of the current administration (didn't matter which party). Comments that I never paid any attention to him, didn't appreciate him, whatever. A more and more tense atmosphere.

Add alcohol, and I'd be in for a terrible emotionally bruising verbal beating. And after years, I didn't even realize what was happening to me. It seemed normal, it seemed like my fault and my responsibility to fix, even the angle of the moon.

I have come to believe that these are separate but linked disorders. One is alcoholism. The other is deep rooted unaddressed rage that smolders. The alcoholism releases the control valves of the rage. But the rage is still there even if the alcohol is gone.

I suspect the reason that AA helps someone heal from the rage as well as the alcohol is that it addresses the root emotional state and well-being of the alcoholic. And that is where the rage lives. Stopping drinking by itself doesn't deal with the emotional dysfunction deep in the person.

I just wrote a "Scorpion" thread where my XAH treated me to a verbal lashing because I would not agree to a scheme to rent our co-owned house which would prevent me from getting my equity, and give him a way out of his court-ordered housing payments until the house sells. He was not getting his way, and he became very mean. Even my dog started shaking, and I left the house. He wasn't drinking, doesn't drink much at the moment. It was rage at not getting what he wanted.

Saying that he will murder you and burn down your house is extreme rage with devastating consequences. I would take it very very seriously.

Protect yourself. There is no separate Jekyll and separate Hyde. There is no multiple personality. There is just one rageful person at the depths of being who has split their expression of themselves into different modes of being so that they seem normal and happy some of the time.

Beneath it all, they are one being, and when they lose control of the underlying rage, it trumps all else.

Be careful, be aware, be safe.

ShootingStar1

netta1966

Shootingstar1, the pot on the stove analogy is very true. the way he made the threat to me was on my cell phone message all jumbled up with drunk talk that i couldn't even make any sense of. I guess I didn't think much of it that night, however, i did call the police from my mother's home because i knew i couldn't sleep that night. Here's how it would go with him:

The "regular" nights he drinks when i was at home were just about every night were no abuse or rage, he would eat and then sober up. Then, there were nights where i guess he had a bad day, he would drink, start complaining about his job, on and on.. be in a bad mood, eat and then sober up. Then there were nights he would drink, listen to music, start crying, feel depressed, complain about his life, not want to be married, etc.
Only a handful of times, i saw the rage and that's when he added the "cheap nasty wine" like Wild Irish Rose. He would rage with anger, and i didn't want to be around him at all or **** him off. He knew the cheap wine made him like this and quit for awhile must have started back.

I know the core of his rage comes from him losing his 11 month old son about 18 years ago before i knew him. It would come out when he drinks. I know he had a hard time with it, joined a church for five years. I really think he's never truly gotten passed it.
Which could be the core of his rage.

Thank you so much and everyone on here for helping me see things clearer.

Netta