just a rant - she quit drinking for 2 weeks, this was her first night back
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just a rant - she quit drinking for 2 weeks, this was her first night back
I just need to get this out on 'paper' in the only forum I have where someone understands. I can't get it all out at an Al Anon meeting. If you read it, I thank you for your time. I know I have codependent tendencies and I've been told there is not much for me to do here besides get out. But I am so heartbroken I can't think straight today. My girlfriend was the first person in my life I truly wanted to marry. And now our relationship is something else. This is someone I truly love, and I feel bad saying 'she did this', 'she did that', but I need to get this out.
She came to visit me because she had the day off and 'couldn't wait' to see me. She had stopped drinking completely for 2 weeks after a bad incident that she wanted to make amends for (she essentially asked me to go home because she was ashamed she wanted to drink alone), the second longest time she has gone in her 15 years of drinking.
When she arrived she hugged me and I saw that hungry/thirsty twinkle in her eyes, and she asked 'can we go get a drink? Just one. Is that bad?' I said I'm not having any and left it at that. I long since quit having drinking around her. Our first dates were two glasses of wine - so I didn't know. My mind raced as to whether I'm enabling. I knew this was the end of the most beautiful and harmonious 2 weeks of our relationship.
She said she wanted an appetizer at the Japanese restaurant, but I know her very well. She gets a large carafe of sake (equivalent to a full bottle) because that way she can call it 'just one drink'. By the end, she is talking loudly with profanity on her cell phone, telling our server she's a vampire, and going on a loud rant about how she would kill anyone who came near me.
We went to dinner a bit later and she got the wine list. She had a glass of wine, and was gone. She made odd faces at me, talked about having sex in the bathroom in front of our server, she took out a cigarette because she forgot she was indoors. But actually the most disturbing thing was this...She poured out a large mound of red pepper sprinkles from a jar. A minute later she stared at me for 30 seconds, then stared at the pepper, pointed at it and then the jar and said, "Is that, that?"
I don't know why that's so horrible. I mean I do. I feel like that's what she asks in life - "Is that, that?" She doesn't know which way is up or down. She doesn't know if pepper is pepper. I just didn't realize it so clearly until this.
When we were outside she hiked up her skirt on the street and asked if she could pee on the side or near a tree somewhere. I put her in the car and drove back to my place.
She sat down for a few minutes and then picked up her purse and said she's smoking a cigarette and will be back in about 25 mins. I said that's a long cigarette. Of course I knew what she was doing. She finally said she's going to the liquor store. I told her it was closed (it was). She began to cry and said she didn't realize it was closed. She said 'you don't know how awful this feels. i feel guilty because I need to go there. It's like I can't stop. I should never have come up here.'
She said "I don't really want to go anywhere. I just want to hang out here with you." And I said, "you know, you don't have to go anywhere." She thought about it and said "that's true. I don't have to go anywhere." But that thought was lost and she said she's going to a bar since the store is closed. Then she said she's just going to drive home. I told her I can't let her do that. She said she will find a way to drive home if she doesn't get to the bar. But she willingly gave me her keys.
I felt that the situation was volatile and I couldn't sleep thinking she might drive home while I'm sleeping later. So we walked up half a block to the bar and she got one drink. My reasoning was it's late, and it can be dangerous in the city where I live, so I went with her. We came home and went to sleep, and said she just have temporary bouts of insanity and she's sorry.
She texted me the next day and apologized profusely. She didn't drink the next day and made me a candlelight dinner. I knew she was trying to fix what she'd done the night before. I'm sorry she's going through this. And I'm sorry I'm going through this.
She came to visit me because she had the day off and 'couldn't wait' to see me. She had stopped drinking completely for 2 weeks after a bad incident that she wanted to make amends for (she essentially asked me to go home because she was ashamed she wanted to drink alone), the second longest time she has gone in her 15 years of drinking.
When she arrived she hugged me and I saw that hungry/thirsty twinkle in her eyes, and she asked 'can we go get a drink? Just one. Is that bad?' I said I'm not having any and left it at that. I long since quit having drinking around her. Our first dates were two glasses of wine - so I didn't know. My mind raced as to whether I'm enabling. I knew this was the end of the most beautiful and harmonious 2 weeks of our relationship.
She said she wanted an appetizer at the Japanese restaurant, but I know her very well. She gets a large carafe of sake (equivalent to a full bottle) because that way she can call it 'just one drink'. By the end, she is talking loudly with profanity on her cell phone, telling our server she's a vampire, and going on a loud rant about how she would kill anyone who came near me.
We went to dinner a bit later and she got the wine list. She had a glass of wine, and was gone. She made odd faces at me, talked about having sex in the bathroom in front of our server, she took out a cigarette because she forgot she was indoors. But actually the most disturbing thing was this...She poured out a large mound of red pepper sprinkles from a jar. A minute later she stared at me for 30 seconds, then stared at the pepper, pointed at it and then the jar and said, "Is that, that?"
I don't know why that's so horrible. I mean I do. I feel like that's what she asks in life - "Is that, that?" She doesn't know which way is up or down. She doesn't know if pepper is pepper. I just didn't realize it so clearly until this.
When we were outside she hiked up her skirt on the street and asked if she could pee on the side or near a tree somewhere. I put her in the car and drove back to my place.
She sat down for a few minutes and then picked up her purse and said she's smoking a cigarette and will be back in about 25 mins. I said that's a long cigarette. Of course I knew what she was doing. She finally said she's going to the liquor store. I told her it was closed (it was). She began to cry and said she didn't realize it was closed. She said 'you don't know how awful this feels. i feel guilty because I need to go there. It's like I can't stop. I should never have come up here.'
She said "I don't really want to go anywhere. I just want to hang out here with you." And I said, "you know, you don't have to go anywhere." She thought about it and said "that's true. I don't have to go anywhere." But that thought was lost and she said she's going to a bar since the store is closed. Then she said she's just going to drive home. I told her I can't let her do that. She said she will find a way to drive home if she doesn't get to the bar. But she willingly gave me her keys.
I felt that the situation was volatile and I couldn't sleep thinking she might drive home while I'm sleeping later. So we walked up half a block to the bar and she got one drink. My reasoning was it's late, and it can be dangerous in the city where I live, so I went with her. We came home and went to sleep, and said she just have temporary bouts of insanity and she's sorry.
She texted me the next day and apologized profusely. She didn't drink the next day and made me a candlelight dinner. I knew she was trying to fix what she'd done the night before. I'm sorry she's going through this. And I'm sorry I'm going through this.
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Ask yourself: is this what you want in a relationship?
If it isn't there is only one thing you can do: end it. Nothing is going to stop an alcoholic from drinking! There's nothing you can say or do. Or, tell her you'll only continue to see her if she gets help, gets in a program, and stops drinking. And, don't be surprised if she calls off the relationship first because for addicts, the most important thing, their higher power, God, is alcohol. It's a progressive disease.
Ask yourself why you continue to stay in a situation that tears you up. This is not someone you can really have a relationship with, this is a drunk. As Louise said to Thelma, "you get what you settle for". Feel sorry for her, yes, because she's powerless over alcohol. She can,however, decide not to have the first drink.
But it's completely her decision and if she does get sober, it won't be for you, it will be for herself.
If it isn't there is only one thing you can do: end it. Nothing is going to stop an alcoholic from drinking! There's nothing you can say or do. Or, tell her you'll only continue to see her if she gets help, gets in a program, and stops drinking. And, don't be surprised if she calls off the relationship first because for addicts, the most important thing, their higher power, God, is alcohol. It's a progressive disease.
Ask yourself why you continue to stay in a situation that tears you up. This is not someone you can really have a relationship with, this is a drunk. As Louise said to Thelma, "you get what you settle for". Feel sorry for her, yes, because she's powerless over alcohol. She can,however, decide not to have the first drink.
But it's completely her decision and if she does get sober, it won't be for you, it will be for herself.
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Dear blake, she is an alcoholic who hasn't, yet, faced up to it. That is the first thing that has to happen. She has to decide that she wants to get sober.
There is nothing you can do to help her (besides not enabling). You will have to protect yourself. The alcoholism harms everyone that it touches.
I am so sorry that this has happened.
dandylion
There is nothing you can do to help her (besides not enabling). You will have to protect yourself. The alcoholism harms everyone that it touches.
I am so sorry that this has happened.
dandylion
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I would respectfully disagree with NYC, because many alcoholics have absolutely no ability to "decide not to take the first drink". That's why they can't stay sober.
It really is up to you what you're willing to tolerate in terms of this relationship. Is she willing to give AA a try? As in, a SERIOUS try? That may be the only thing that can help her, and if she isn't ready to quit, and willing to do whatever it takes, just going and sitting in meetings won't do a darned thing for her.
It really is up to you what you're willing to tolerate in terms of this relationship. Is she willing to give AA a try? As in, a SERIOUS try? That may be the only thing that can help her, and if she isn't ready to quit, and willing to do whatever it takes, just going and sitting in meetings won't do a darned thing for her.
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Thanks everyone. I know it was long so I appreciate your time.
Lexie - What I know is that she went to AA approx 5 years ago. I don't know what precipitated her actually agreeing to this, or if she sought it out herself. The only time she acknowledges her problem is when she's drunk, and she does it at length sometimes. She doesn't remember telling me this because she was drunk, but she said she drank before every AA meeting. In her words, she quit going because it wasn't helping her and she believed everyone was talking about her behind her back because she is a substance abuse nurse who treats patients with the very problem she herself has.
What I hear from her over and over is that one day she wants to quit, but right now is 'not realistic' for her. I know that's classic addictive thinking, of course.
Lexie - What I know is that she went to AA approx 5 years ago. I don't know what precipitated her actually agreeing to this, or if she sought it out herself. The only time she acknowledges her problem is when she's drunk, and she does it at length sometimes. She doesn't remember telling me this because she was drunk, but she said she drank before every AA meeting. In her words, she quit going because it wasn't helping her and she believed everyone was talking about her behind her back because she is a substance abuse nurse who treats patients with the very problem she herself has.
What I hear from her over and over is that one day she wants to quit, but right now is 'not realistic' for her. I know that's classic addictive thinking, of course.
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She's not ready.
My brothers son just reached his first bottom.
He is detoxing in the hospital and then to a program.
I personally don't think he is going to make it, cause he is not doing it for him.
I think it's the first of many. It's agony.
My brothers son just reached his first bottom.
He is detoxing in the hospital and then to a program.
I personally don't think he is going to make it, cause he is not doing it for him.
I think it's the first of many. It's agony.
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blake, she obviously hasn't reached her personal bottom, yet. It seems that they have to hurt so bad that sobriety looks like the only option.
I have seen many attend AA without really getting into what the program is really about--the parts where healing can occur. My intuition tells me that she MAY be exaggerating the 5yr. thing. Maybe some meetings sprinkled over a smaller period of time??
dandylion
I have seen many attend AA without really getting into what the program is really about--the parts where healing can occur. My intuition tells me that she MAY be exaggerating the 5yr. thing. Maybe some meetings sprinkled over a smaller period of time??
dandylion
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I'm so sorry to hear that Katiekate. I hope it's not the first of many for him. Deep down I feel my gf is not ready and you're right. It's hard to admit.
I cringe at the thought of what her personal bottom is if that's still to come.
So far, she's had her stomach pumped numerous times, broken her nose, totaled 2 cars 5 or more yrs ago, several DUI's, nearly went to jail for 2 weeks but got off w/3 yrs probation and doing the breathalizer thing every week or two. All this stuff is 4+ years ago though, so it seems like she's in this somewhat 'less extreme' phase where she's not seeing those kinds of terrible consequences right now. I think she believes she's managing it.
thanks dandylion - i don't know how many times she went or how long - she just said it was like 5 years ago that she went.
I cringe at the thought of what her personal bottom is if that's still to come.
So far, she's had her stomach pumped numerous times, broken her nose, totaled 2 cars 5 or more yrs ago, several DUI's, nearly went to jail for 2 weeks but got off w/3 yrs probation and doing the breathalizer thing every week or two. All this stuff is 4+ years ago though, so it seems like she's in this somewhat 'less extreme' phase where she's not seeing those kinds of terrible consequences right now. I think she believes she's managing it.
thanks dandylion - i don't know how many times she went or how long - she just said it was like 5 years ago that she went.
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If you read my posts, it often takes some drastic actions for a bottom to be reached. Often they have to lose everything.
Also, one thing that I learned is that often times when they say they aren't drinking, they still are. It is part of the lying and manipulation. Way early in my relationship, I could never understand how completely and utterly trashed and incoherent my EXRAG would become after just one or two drinks. It was only later that I found out that she had a 12 pack earlier in the day, or a pint of Vodka. Your post above brings back similar memories.
Remember, you have no control over her drinking. But you do have control to not be around her if she is drinking.
Also, one thing that I learned is that often times when they say they aren't drinking, they still are. It is part of the lying and manipulation. Way early in my relationship, I could never understand how completely and utterly trashed and incoherent my EXRAG would become after just one or two drinks. It was only later that I found out that she had a 12 pack earlier in the day, or a pint of Vodka. Your post above brings back similar memories.
Remember, you have no control over her drinking. But you do have control to not be around her if she is drinking.
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Blake. Drunk is drunk. But Crazy is Crazy.
I have sort of been where you are at. But mine has been post-alcohol and all that crap was still going on.
Looking back now, I was just having fun. I am a jackass, if you follow. I was having a LOT of fun. She was having crazy.
We did the sex in the public restroom thing, dropping her shorts and peeing on stuff, making piles of salt (different than pepper?) on the table and drawing in it while I am meeting with corporate lawyers, and them looking at me with a wtf look, and me shrugging saying -- She is a Lot of Fun (suppose they could have added the Chinese Fortune Cookie part -- in bed).
As far as vampire stuff, she did the cutting/self-injury stuff, and would hop in bed all wild. Do not recall if I ever was licking her blood, but maybe some things are best not remembered.
Not saying yours is crazy, but yours sounds crazy.
And as far as the Nurse thing -- Mine is an MSW who works in the rehab business. Aint nobody telling her nothing.
Most recent saga is she has been to rehab for an eating disorder. And thrown in there across the years are periodic meltdown rages, suicide threats, and all the rest.
Even if was all fun, there comes a point where it is not. I guess that point was kids. Dunno.
When the kids come and tell you, “Dad, if things do not work with you and mom, we want to go with you.” I love them. I love her. They love her (most of the time). Somedays she says she loves me, somedays she hates me. I ask them, “ what is wrong with being with mom?” They say –“ Because mom scares us.” Then you have to know you have a problem.
We all love her, and I can tell you love yours . . . but bottom line -- Crazy is Crazy.
I have sort of been where you are at. But mine has been post-alcohol and all that crap was still going on.
Looking back now, I was just having fun. I am a jackass, if you follow. I was having a LOT of fun. She was having crazy.
We did the sex in the public restroom thing, dropping her shorts and peeing on stuff, making piles of salt (different than pepper?) on the table and drawing in it while I am meeting with corporate lawyers, and them looking at me with a wtf look, and me shrugging saying -- She is a Lot of Fun (suppose they could have added the Chinese Fortune Cookie part -- in bed).
As far as vampire stuff, she did the cutting/self-injury stuff, and would hop in bed all wild. Do not recall if I ever was licking her blood, but maybe some things are best not remembered.
Not saying yours is crazy, but yours sounds crazy.
And as far as the Nurse thing -- Mine is an MSW who works in the rehab business. Aint nobody telling her nothing.
Most recent saga is she has been to rehab for an eating disorder. And thrown in there across the years are periodic meltdown rages, suicide threats, and all the rest.
Even if was all fun, there comes a point where it is not. I guess that point was kids. Dunno.
When the kids come and tell you, “Dad, if things do not work with you and mom, we want to go with you.” I love them. I love her. They love her (most of the time). Somedays she says she loves me, somedays she hates me. I ask them, “ what is wrong with being with mom?” They say –“ Because mom scares us.” Then you have to know you have a problem.
We all love her, and I can tell you love yours . . . but bottom line -- Crazy is Crazy.
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Hammer - Thanks so much for taking the time to share your experience - it really hits home, and I'm sorry to hear of your and your kids' experiences. I'm finding some hard realizations in this thread, such as your first sentence. Man I've been thinking that.
Yes - aint nobody telling my girlfriend anything either. And I realized early that I certainly can't. The phrases I've heard from her during her bouts of crying about her addiction while she's drunk include: "I know everything about this. I know all the ins and outs of this. I listen to their meetings all day everyday at work. I listen to their stories. I know what can happen."
She was never a cutter. But she did attempt suicide as a teenager. She won't talk about why and I've never pushed. Just glad she's with us.
Yes - aint nobody telling my girlfriend anything either. And I realized early that I certainly can't. The phrases I've heard from her during her bouts of crying about her addiction while she's drunk include: "I know everything about this. I know all the ins and outs of this. I listen to their meetings all day everyday at work. I listen to their stories. I know what can happen."
She was never a cutter. But she did attempt suicide as a teenager. She won't talk about why and I've never pushed. Just glad she's with us.
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Hi Blake,
I am so sorry for what you are enduring.
I am currently in the process of letting go of my dear, beloved ABF - after three years of a sometimes beautiful, often crazy, scary and heartbreaking ride.
I have decided that whatever hitting "bottom" for him means, it is a place I don't ever want to see.
Whatever YOU decide, I wanted you to know that your grief is understood here, and that you are among friends.
SQ
I am so sorry for what you are enduring.
I am currently in the process of letting go of my dear, beloved ABF - after three years of a sometimes beautiful, often crazy, scary and heartbreaking ride.
I have decided that whatever hitting "bottom" for him means, it is a place I don't ever want to see.
Whatever YOU decide, I wanted you to know that your grief is understood here, and that you are among friends.
SQ
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Hi SQ. I feel in my gut that I don't want to know what bottom is for her either. Sometimes beautiful, often crazy I guess sums it up to a tee. I'm so sorry that you and others can relate to this.
Have I had enough? I don't know. My false hope or codependent thinking faded momentarily and I spent the day alone even though we could have spent it together. I detached but communicated with her. I didn't do it to punish her - I did it because I am emotionally raw and exhausted. I went for a drive. Maybe I should write a post about what I'm doing to save myself for a change. I don't know.
Have I had enough? I don't know. My false hope or codependent thinking faded momentarily and I spent the day alone even though we could have spent it together. I detached but communicated with her. I didn't do it to punish her - I did it because I am emotionally raw and exhausted. I went for a drive. Maybe I should write a post about what I'm doing to save myself for a change. I don't know.
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To me, it is a sad--but true fact---just because you love someone doesn't always make it right or workable to live with them.
This is, perhaps, beyond the scope of what this forum is intended for---but I will say it.....
Whenever I see the kinds of acting out that has just been described--I often wonder if there are not some buried experiences from childhood--abuse...esp. of sexual nature. We don't always know because it is frequently never shared. This is the stuff intended for a therapist to deal with, and cannot be mended by a romantic involvement. As always, the drinking has to stop first.
difficult stuff, guys.
dandylion
This is, perhaps, beyond the scope of what this forum is intended for---but I will say it.....
Whenever I see the kinds of acting out that has just been described--I often wonder if there are not some buried experiences from childhood--abuse...esp. of sexual nature. We don't always know because it is frequently never shared. This is the stuff intended for a therapist to deal with, and cannot be mended by a romantic involvement. As always, the drinking has to stop first.
difficult stuff, guys.
dandylion
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I wonder too dandylion.
I know that she never knew her father. He beat her mom and they divorced when she was very young. He kidnapped my girlfriend and kept her somewhere for some period of time - i'm unclear on it and it's instant tears if i ask. She keeps a blanket in her bed from when she was young because apparently he threw it at her when she cried and she said it was the only thing she could hold onto in her room.
Her issues are deep and terrible. I bought a book to try and do activities to see if maybe I was triggering any of her drinking. But I think the pain of her entire life is her trigger. I know that as nice as it is for me, making dinner together and playing scrabble won't ease any of that pain.
I know that she never knew her father. He beat her mom and they divorced when she was very young. He kidnapped my girlfriend and kept her somewhere for some period of time - i'm unclear on it and it's instant tears if i ask. She keeps a blanket in her bed from when she was young because apparently he threw it at her when she cried and she said it was the only thing she could hold onto in her room.
Her issues are deep and terrible. I bought a book to try and do activities to see if maybe I was triggering any of her drinking. But I think the pain of her entire life is her trigger. I know that as nice as it is for me, making dinner together and playing scrabble won't ease any of that pain.
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Oh, blake. This almost makes me cry....for her. She needs help so badly. So badly. This is bigger than you can deal with---and too big for her to deal with--without help. A solid program of AA and a really skilled and experienced therapist is what I think would be a starting point.
I really feel for you.
dandylion
I really feel for you.
dandylion
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blake, I do know that there are multitudes of women with similar backgrounds that have eventually been able to heal. I think she is fighting against it all with all her might, but I don't feel that she is hopeless.
dandylion
dandylion
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Blake,
I had a ****** childhood and I know many that had even worse than mine, that does not give you the right to misuse other people as spectators for some drama you are setting up.
If I were you I would not be understanding at all in this situation, I would be pissed.
And some candle light dinner next day out of guilt – I would not be buying that either.
I would never engage in a guilt game with an alcoholic, that is a never ending story.
I had a ****** childhood and I know many that had even worse than mine, that does not give you the right to misuse other people as spectators for some drama you are setting up.
If I were you I would not be understanding at all in this situation, I would be pissed.
And some candle light dinner next day out of guilt – I would not be buying that either.
I would never engage in a guilt game with an alcoholic, that is a never ending story.
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Wow... Hope you are doing ok and that these events aren't bringing you down and thus neglecting your own care.
This woman is a mess and it's time to figure out why you would want this for yourself. It's time to get back to you. Whatever you decide I can tell this is causing you pain and don't want you to start to also get "sick" no matter what you think you can handle.
I know from other posts you are getting back to you but it's impossible to do a good job at it when all your emotional energy and focus is her.
How about you guys take a serious break to work on yourselves individually?
This woman is a mess and it's time to figure out why you would want this for yourself. It's time to get back to you. Whatever you decide I can tell this is causing you pain and don't want you to start to also get "sick" no matter what you think you can handle.
I know from other posts you are getting back to you but it's impossible to do a good job at it when all your emotional energy and focus is her.
How about you guys take a serious break to work on yourselves individually?
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