Tough Love - Seeking advise

Old 07-31-2013, 04:00 PM
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Tough Love - Seeking advise

Our AS age 23, moved out end of May as he was caught by the court for testing positive for pot, his DOC. On probation for drunk and disorderly, he has been told to stay clean. So, he chose to move out. This has been the nicest 2 months with him gone! No having to hide purse/wallet, no "worrying" if he is going to work/class/appointments. It has been a good opportunity to be on SR and read and learn about addiction.

Tonight, he called. He no longer has his room in the house he has been renting and "needs" to move home. He said the landlord rented too many rooms to too many people (huh? really?) When questioned, he said that is all he knew. I told him he could come over and talk to us.

This is where I NEED HELP. My husband (who has not gone to meetings or read up on addiction) feels he needs a place to live (here). My response is:
1. He's 23.
2. He is not working. He is not going to school. He is not going to meetings. He is not keeping counseling appointments. He cannot live here.
3. If we let him move in now and he gets all comfy, we will live in fear of him helping himself to our money.
4. If he moves in now, we could very well be facing this same problem when we are 70 and he is 40.

Quick! Are there any circumstances when it's ok for the addict not in recovery to come home???? Son coming over soon.
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Old 07-31-2013, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Eve13 View Post
Quick! Are there any circumstances when it's ok for the addict not in recovery to come home????
Only if they are under 18 and you legally have to provide shelter.
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Old 07-31-2013, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Eve13 View Post
My response is:
1. He's 23.
2. He is not working. He is not going to school. He is not going to meetings. He is not keeping counseling appointments. He cannot live here.
3. If we let him move in now and he gets all comfy, we will live in fear of him helping himself to our money.
4. If he moves in now, we could very well be facing this same problem when we are 70 and he is 40.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Old 07-31-2013, 04:27 PM
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Don't ENABLE him

If he HAS to move back in you are going to have to set some very strict boundaries and if he crosses ANY of them, kick him out IMMEDIATELY!

Some suggestions:

1. NO STEALING.
2. Get a job. Set a time limit for this... (a month).
3. NO DRUGS or ALCOHOL.
4. Do your fair share (housework, yardwork etc.)
5. Above all else.... treat Mom and Dad with respect.

If he can't or won't agree to follow your rules, do not let him move back in.

Good Luck!
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Old 07-31-2013, 05:04 PM
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Thanks friends! We had a tough love conversation. And told him we'd let him know our decision tomorrow about moving back home or not. And yes Hope4Life, those are exactly our contractual house rules. Plus counseling. It was a hard conversation but he handled it with good eye contact and truthfulness.(What's stopped you from signing up for classes so far? Procrastination - lol, yep!)

AS explained that the house he moved into, he could over the summer as students weren't there, but with fall semester, those rooms had already been contracted to others. OK, that makes sense.

He signed up online for fall classes tonight. I encouraged him to look for a job on campus. He hadn't thought of that. Oyi. It is hard to be a parent!
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Old 07-31-2013, 05:37 PM
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I know how hard it is to tell your son he can not come home. We had to put our son out of the house almost two years ago. It was one of the hardest things we did but for the first time my husband and I felt like we were finally doing the right thing. He is now 24 and still having a very hard time staying clean. He graduated H.S. and dropped out of College due to drinking/drugging and now it is almost 6 years later and he can barely keep a job due to continual relapses. He's been in and out of numerous rehabs and SLC's.

All of this is so very heartbreaking, tiring and frustrating!!!

I think you are very realistic in foreseeing what may happen if you allow your son to come home. I know our son became complacent each time he had a roof over his head. There were a couple of times where he seemed truly genuine but each time he cycled down hill and would be right back to drugging.
When I look at the amount of self sabotaging our son has put himself through it takes my breath away.
There are no easy answers!!
Have you and your husband considered helping your son go to a sober living community. He will be required to go to meetings during the week, find a job and contribute.
Wishing you the best!
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Old 07-31-2013, 06:10 PM
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I think treading waters suggestion of a sober living, or Oxford house, is a good one. Usually very inexpensive and would show how serious he is about being clean. I finally came to a point where I truly feel it is disrespectful to my son to do anything for him he is capable of doing for himself. It essentially tells him I think he can't handle it. Another thought I had was he told you he can stay at his current place through summer but would have to move in the fall. Sounds like he has some time to prove to you that he's willing to change. It sounds like there may be more to the story....I found I ever only got "the headlines" and the details of the story were doled out only when needed to build sympathy. Good for you for giving this real thought and for being realistic with yourself. I don't think I could ever have my son back in the house with me. My serenity has been fought too hard for!
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Old 07-31-2013, 06:14 PM
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Eve, If you read my story I recently went through the same thing with my 21 yo. Did not work out. . Keep us posted on your progress.
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Old 07-31-2013, 06:58 PM
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pravchaw, yes, I thought about you and your wife tonight. We are on the same path at the same time.
Lizwig, that is my concern too, serenity is priceless. AND it is all too new for us all not to slip into our past roles.
Treadingwaters, there is no Oxford house in our area, many on-line have spoken highly of this program. Sober living yes, we've discussed. He needs to drive the change. He feels (at this point in his young life) he is doing ok not using.
He went out to coffee this evening with a buddy and may have an opportunity to live very close to campus, which would be a win:win. We will talk more tomorrow night. I will keep you all posted!
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Old 07-31-2013, 08:48 PM
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Hi Eve13 I feel your pain. My personal experience is that it is hard to live with adult children even if they don't have an addiction. It gets complicated. At one point, I had two adult sons, a teenage daughter, and my mother in the house with us. We like to have order in the house and when you have adult children they want to come and go as they please; it gets a little irritating. One day, my husband and I were discussing that sons were too comfortable. And I thought, I do not want them living here and be like that movie "Stepbrothers" being 40 and still living under our roof. So I told my eldest son, who was 21 years old at the time, you have to start looking for a place. I would go out every weekend to look for apartments with him (AS was in county jail at the time and would end up being there for about 11 months). At the time, we were fortunate to be in a good position financially, and my husband decided we should just buy a condo near the university that the boys could rent from us. We figured that being right across from university might inspire them to some day go back. We told them that they would get a better deal on the rent that just a stranger off the street. We did tell them that once they are out of the house they couldn't come back. So now, this is the only home they have. If they mess it up, they are out of luck (being that there is an HOA for the condo, I made it very clear that if I got enough complaints, I would have to evict them because the HOA would hold me accountable and I didn't want to deal with that if they wanted to live there). My eldest son lived at the condo for about three years and recently moved out to go live in another state. My AS is recently living there with my youngest daughter who is in her second year of college. They both don't pay rent at the time but I am letting the get situated and they both know they won't be allowed to move back home under any circumstance for my sanity and my husband's sanity. The only kid I have at home is my mother. LOL. It is much better this way. At least with the independence, they are more accountable for themselves. My AS likes to keep the condo clean and is respectful of his sister because he knows that he better not put her in any danger or hurtful situation. We made it very clear that he needs to look out for her and be there for her not put her in harms way, otherwise I would have no choice but to ask him to leave.

I know not everyone has the ability to just go out and buy a place, but to us it was worth having some peace of mind and also helping our children learn how to be more independent. They have to rely on themselves for day to day stuff, i.e. cooking, cleaning, laundry, some bills, abiding by HOA rules, etc. I'm not in there telling them what to do all day, and we probably save a whole lot more money than them coming in and out or saving them from whatever situations they could get into financially. We did tell them, though, that if they ever leave the condo, they are not allowed to come back there (my oldest is out). Once they are all out of condo, we will rent it or sell it when we retire (kind of an investment for us).

Not sure if this helps. The moral of the story is that if there is an opportunity for them to be out from under your roof, life is at least a little more peaceful.

Good luck.
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Old 08-01-2013, 04:49 AM
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Lotusangel, my husband and I have talked about that off and on the past 2 years. We have missed the window of affordable housing as home prices in our area are significantly higher than a year ago, but yes, what a great idea! If it works for him to live closer to campus we need to discuss what his ability would be to put funds toward rent. Not trying to make this insurmountable, he has a heavy college load (calc, chemistry). It is a delicate line. Again, support vs. enabling. Fine line.
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Old 08-01-2013, 04:59 AM
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Letting my son move home...and we did that many times...never once worked out well for him or for us. That said, sometimes it's the last chance that they grasp onto.

My thoughts are strict boundaries...whether he likes them or not. I had an 11 PM curfew for my son even when he was clean and even when he was in his 30's. It wasn't about controlling him, it was about ME getting my sleep without worrying about where he was. I told him "live in my house with my boundaries or live any place else with my blessing...I will love you just the same no matter where you live."

WE are not their only solution. There are much better options than "us", for them and for us.

Good luck and prayers for all of you.

Hugs
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Old 08-01-2013, 04:49 PM
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Well the good news is that he is religiously monitored for drug/etoh use. And he is mandated into counseling. The other good news is that he is motivated to be in school, and to be finished with the scenic route he's been on.

The not good news is that we really have spent all of his $$ that has been put aside for school on his schooling. We can pay for the classes, but room and board? Not so easy. And his course load is extremely challenging. So I get that working will be a challenge. Just trying to think creatively...
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Old 08-01-2013, 09:50 PM
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Some things I have seen students do:
  • Take classes part time and work part/full time. It may take longer, but you do what you have to do. I heard one person put it like this, "My sister told me, 'it's going to take you 8 years to finish your degree. Why are you even doing this?' and my reply was, 'well, 8 years are going to pass either way and when they do, I can either have a degree or not.'"
  • I have seen other students take full time classes and work part time. Yes, it's tough, and they may sacrifice time hanging out with friends or going to parties and drinking, but you do what you have to do to make it through keeping in mind that you're working towards a better future for yourself.
  • In the US at least, there are many scholarships and types of financial aid available.
  • There are student loans available.
  • Many students get summer jobs and save some of the money to help with school costs throughout the year.

I think it's great for parents to help out with college costs as much as possible, but I also think that students that have to pay at least part of their own way take it a lot more seriously and work harder. And there's nothing like having to work a cr@p job to remind a person why they want to succeed in school so they can have a better job soon.
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Old 08-02-2013, 06:09 AM
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DG0409 exactly! We are so fortunate that MGM has helped with ALL of her grandchildren's bachelor's degrees, so that they graduate without debt. She is a wise woman, so when we finally told her about AS addiction she was able to step back. Last night I brought up with her about AS going part-time/working part-time, or getting a student loan and she is in agreement that some skin in the game will be good for him. It's not just the classes. It's replacing a lap-top lost/stolen/sold (who knows), rent, food. We are NOT WILLING to do this any longer, so it is truly on AS how he wants to move forward. Thank you for your words, it helps me feel like we are on the right track with our boundaries and appropriate level of support.
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Old 08-06-2013, 05:46 PM
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Venting and not wanting to start a new thread.
It's been going "ok" with AS. He volunteered to do some yard work and did (steps in the right direction) but yesterday things kind of went south.
He was suppose to go to the college and talk with the Financial Advisors about any help for tuition/room/board. And he slept all day. Not good. So, we had a tough love talking with him, "Up to you..." "Responsible and accountable" etc. You know the drill. Unfortunately I was not disengaged, so he probably "heard" the anger more than the words.
Today, says he, our house is "toxic" and makes him want to use and he needs to get out he'd rather sleep in his car and why the heck won't we be co-signers on a loan.
Nope. Not co-signing. He's never paid me back. Ever.
Told him where he sleeps is his choice.
Sorry he feels we are "toxic" and so horrible.

I guess that is where it hurts and where my mind goes - where did we go wrong, what could we have done differently. When I step (way) back, I think we didn't go wrong except for not identifying any earlier that there is/was a problem. And it is hard to disengage, and not have those feelings. Going to my first NarAnon meeting on Thursday, and hope it helps.

Ug. And I am embarrassed to say that my mom is willing to co-sign the loan so he doesn't have to live at home. "He feels he should be on his own" (THEN HE NEEDS TO EARN THAT, NOT HAVE IT GIVEN TO HIM I tell her) This feels wrong on every level and I have asked her not to do this. Will need to have a sit down heart to heart tomorrow with her if it's not too late.

Just wanted to spill what was on my heart.
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Old 08-06-2013, 05:59 PM
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Oh Eve, I am sorry. Your home is not toxic. You didn't do anything wrong, unless you held him done and forced him to get high. Addicts just don't like rules, accountability or responsibility.

Glad that you are starting Naranon, is there any chance you can get your mother and husband to attend?
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Old 08-06-2013, 06:06 PM
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Thanks for your reassurance LoveMeNow. Hubby will go with me. I'd rather get one under my belt and see how it is, before bringing my 81 year old mom. (KWIM?)

And you're right about the rules and accountability. It breaks my heart, and I really REALLY have to work on disengaging, not getting upset/angry/anxious about the choices he has made.
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Old 08-06-2013, 06:23 PM
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Is he ready for college yet? Maybe he just needs to get a job and get secure in his sobriety. I pushed college on my son last year, while he was still using. He failed all his courses. These days I don't even bother. I think if he gives up, he will need another year at least to regain his mind.
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Old 08-06-2013, 06:27 PM
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Pravchaw, I encouraged him to take the year off and work. He WANTS to finish his bachelor's. There is no pushing on our end.
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