How did my AV come to be?
A simple guy making his way
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maine
Posts: 7,867
How did my AV come to be?
AV is not a concept. It is a real live demon... No hoax. But unlike a demon only I can make it live. I give it my power. From which point I then have to admit powerlessness. A complete inability to manage life until once again I take that power back.
I don't prescribe to the idea that its a perpetual power struggle. It may be in the beginning.
The beginning of my AV? That suffering sentient being within. The many forms it takes on in it's efforts to survive.
AV only exists for the heathy. Think about that a moment.
The sick never meet AV formally. They never see the trickery as anything more than a simple desire. For them it does not exist.
But the desire to be healthy of mind and body is what reveals it to me. The smothering feelings drive it from my body but it cannot stand alone. The gasping chokes it of life but it cannot breath without me.
These days I see AV from afar. I don't let it wander near. If it does it's met with a quick blow. A disparaging greeting.
So AV will live in some form within me. But the further I go from it food source in time the less ability it has to do anything but be observed. Almost a feature in the zoo that has no power left to live free. Placed within a controlled environment with no sun.
These are my silly thoughts on how my AV came to be and how I see it today.
I don't prescribe to the idea that its a perpetual power struggle. It may be in the beginning.
The beginning of my AV? That suffering sentient being within. The many forms it takes on in it's efforts to survive.
AV only exists for the heathy. Think about that a moment.
The sick never meet AV formally. They never see the trickery as anything more than a simple desire. For them it does not exist.
But the desire to be healthy of mind and body is what reveals it to me. The smothering feelings drive it from my body but it cannot stand alone. The gasping chokes it of life but it cannot breath without me.
These days I see AV from afar. I don't let it wander near. If it does it's met with a quick blow. A disparaging greeting.
So AV will live in some form within me. But the further I go from it food source in time the less ability it has to do anything but be observed. Almost a feature in the zoo that has no power left to live free. Placed within a controlled environment with no sun.
These are my silly thoughts on how my AV came to be and how I see it today.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: CAPE COD, MA
Posts: 1,020
My drinking caused me to have too much mental delusion moments causing knowledge about the answers to my sobriety in a bad persons hands. ME! All I know is I have a
dis-ease caused be drinking unhealthy amounts of toxic alcohol which the result gave me the processing power of a 13 year old along with millions of untreated cases like mine. This dis-ease is cunning, baffling and insidious leaving the medical community in general clueless about successful long term recovery which lies in the hands of the patient. Weird!
This AV is part of the dis-ease and is glued to us just waiting for a chance to change our minds about not drinking, and I see it a life long predator. I personally prefer to lessen it by working on the reasons I drank. The many forms of fear. BE WELL
dis-ease caused be drinking unhealthy amounts of toxic alcohol which the result gave me the processing power of a 13 year old along with millions of untreated cases like mine. This dis-ease is cunning, baffling and insidious leaving the medical community in general clueless about successful long term recovery which lies in the hands of the patient. Weird!
This AV is part of the dis-ease and is glued to us just waiting for a chance to change our minds about not drinking, and I see it a life long predator. I personally prefer to lessen it by working on the reasons I drank. The many forms of fear. BE WELL
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
The AV only exists in those that wish to stop drinking, and engage in the resulting internal dialogue where the drive for survival is in conflict for the instinctive desire for pleasure. If you don't want to stop or limit drinking, there is no internal conflict and no AV, no matter how much you drink.
In this sense, the AV is described as a parasitic drive to experience the deep pleasure that drinking and intoxication bring at the expense of our mental, physical and social well-being. The AV is merely our own instinctive desire for pleasure gone haywire through continued and repeated exposure to alcohol.
We are not bad people, and we have the ability within ourselves to learn how to recognize, accept and separate our rational minds from our drive to maintain this addiction to alcohol.
In this sense, the AV is described as a parasitic drive to experience the deep pleasure that drinking and intoxication bring at the expense of our mental, physical and social well-being. The AV is merely our own instinctive desire for pleasure gone haywire through continued and repeated exposure to alcohol.
We are not bad people, and we have the ability within ourselves to learn how to recognize, accept and separate our rational minds from our drive to maintain this addiction to alcohol.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: CAPE COD, MA
Posts: 1,020
"The AV only exists in those that wish to stop drinking, and engage in the resulting internal dialogue where the drive for survival is in conflict for the instinctive desire for pleasure. If you don't want to stop or limit drinking, there is no internal conflict and no AV, no matter how much you drink."
OMG how ignorant I am! I live with a few facts of the dis-ease I have. First I cannot drink in safety period. Next my AV is with me as long as I live it doesn't go away if I make up delusional thoughts that I'm OK now that it's under control. Too many people are dead with the concept that "I'm recovered." Once an alcoholic ALWAYS AN ALCOHOLIC, no going back. Perhaps following the above will work if a heavy drinker follows it. Ask how I'm so sure. BE WELL
OMG how ignorant I am! I live with a few facts of the dis-ease I have. First I cannot drink in safety period. Next my AV is with me as long as I live it doesn't go away if I make up delusional thoughts that I'm OK now that it's under control. Too many people are dead with the concept that "I'm recovered." Once an alcoholic ALWAYS AN ALCOHOLIC, no going back. Perhaps following the above will work if a heavy drinker follows it. Ask how I'm so sure. BE WELL
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
Originally Posted by visch1 
OMG how ignorant I am! First I cannot drink in safety period. Next my AV is with me as long as I live it doesn't go away if I make up delusional thoughts that I'm OK now that it's under control. Too many people are dead with the concept that "I'm recovered." Once an alcoholic ALWAYS AN ALCOHOLIC, no going back. Perhaps following the above will work if a heavy drinker follows it. Ask how I'm so sure. BE WELL
I don't drink any more because I have decided to never drink again. I made the decision because drinking was killing me, and it seemed to be the sensible thing to do.
My AV is also always with me. It is just not really relevant to my sobriety anymore. I have no delusions about alcohol, but I am just fine now. Really. And I am recovered from my addiction now, and yes, there is no going back. I like to think that Onward is the way to go, confident and secure in an unconditional sobriety. Never drinking again no matter what.
The 'following', as you describe it, has indeed worked for all sorts of drinkers. Heavy drinkers, desolute down and outers, and everyone in between. The 'following' is nothing new, and its ideas and precepts have been helping folks sort themselves for thousands of years.
Ken's OP was about the source or origin of AV, and I provided the definition of Addictive Voice and how we construct it. There is a lot more information about this approach and other approaches like it here. If you are interested in learning more, feel free to ask!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 4,451
Originally Posted by freshstart57
I like to think that Onward is the way to go, confident and secure in an unconditional sobriety.
Visch, it's all good, you know? Different people, approaches, and experiences—whatever works for someone is great. I think we all share the same goal, and that's to see people happy, healthy, and free.
Speaking of which, it's great to see you looking at AV from afar, Ken.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: CAPE COD, MA
Posts: 1,020
Originally Posted by Carlotta
You know you are way out of control when your AV goes "no contact" with you and starts attending Al Anon 
A simple guy making his way
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maine
Posts: 7,867
I have forgotten how much fun it can be to post in this section.
Fresh.... Great to see you!
I agree.... No desire to stop.... No AV.
RAA.... Yes it is very nice.
I am doing well these days. It's nice to have a look around and see what's next.
Fresh.... Great to see you!
I agree.... No desire to stop.... No AV.
RAA.... Yes it is very nice.
I am doing well these days. It's nice to have a look around and see what's next.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: CAPE COD, MA
Posts: 1,020
"The AV only exists in those that wish to stop drinking, and engage in the resulting internal dialogue where the drive for survival is in conflict for the instinctive desire for pleasure. If you don't want to stop or limit drinking, there is no internal conflict and no AV, no matter how much you drink."
With my ignorance I interpret that an alcoholic has an AV only when they are actively drinking. OK I don't want to stop drinking. I haven't had a hard desire to drink in over 30 years. Does that mean I have NO shite fairy (AV) in the recesses of my mind? In my mind that means I'm a recovered alcoholic! Everyone has a choice to work their own program if it's working for them. Many millions have worked the program I use successfully and I'll continue. My major concern is there is so much MISSinformation abounding on the internet that I'm sure has taken many lives. How does a mentally and emotionally crippled soul figure out what process to use. If any are like I was they will pick the softest easiest way which probably won't work for most, It didn't for me until I surrounded to a higher power, my childrens welfare. Our destination is the same it's the ones left on the side of life I'm concerned with. BE WELL
With my ignorance I interpret that an alcoholic has an AV only when they are actively drinking. OK I don't want to stop drinking. I haven't had a hard desire to drink in over 30 years. Does that mean I have NO shite fairy (AV) in the recesses of my mind? In my mind that means I'm a recovered alcoholic! Everyone has a choice to work their own program if it's working for them. Many millions have worked the program I use successfully and I'll continue. My major concern is there is so much MISSinformation abounding on the internet that I'm sure has taken many lives. How does a mentally and emotionally crippled soul figure out what process to use. If any are like I was they will pick the softest easiest way which probably won't work for most, It didn't for me until I surrounded to a higher power, my childrens welfare. Our destination is the same it's the ones left on the side of life I'm concerned with. BE WELL
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 821
visch1-
It is great that a "higher power" and what not worked for you. Many others on here work a different more rational approach that maintains that ...."The AV only exists in those that wish to stop drinking, and engage in the resulting internal dialogue where the drive for survival is in conflict for the instinctive desire for pleasure. If you don't want to stop or limit drinking, there is no internal conflict and no AV, no matter how much you drink."
What that is saying is if you don't wish to stop there really is no conflict and thus no AV. Why would one argue with an AV they are in full agreement with? So, I guess I am confused as to your point?
It is great that a "higher power" and what not worked for you. Many others on here work a different more rational approach that maintains that ...."The AV only exists in those that wish to stop drinking, and engage in the resulting internal dialogue where the drive for survival is in conflict for the instinctive desire for pleasure. If you don't want to stop or limit drinking, there is no internal conflict and no AV, no matter how much you drink."
What that is saying is if you don't wish to stop there really is no conflict and thus no AV. Why would one argue with an AV they are in full agreement with? So, I guess I am confused as to your point?
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by freshstart57
I don't drink any more because I have decided to never drink again. I made the decision because drinking was killing me, and it seemed to be the sensible thing to do.
My AV is also always with me. It is just not really relevant to my sobriety anymore. I have no delusions about alcohol, but I am just fine now. Really. And I am recovered from my addiction now, and yes, there is no going back. I like to think that Onward is the way to go, confident and secure in an unconditional sobriety. Never drinking again no matter what.
Works for me. 30+ years of getting it right.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: CAPE COD, MA
Posts: 1,020
Well I guess word interpretation is miss understood. I guessing your AV is my shite fairy. Mine is always there ready to influence me to pick up a drink when I'm in a OFF BALANCE mental mode. I call it part of the cunning powerful insidious dis-ease that I'm carrying. I perhaps have a uniqueness that after +30 years of not drinking it's still there. For me it gives me perhaps a thought after seeing a good alcohol ad on TV the question "I wonder how that would taste while fishing or other glamorizing thoughts." For me to think that alcoholic thinking is gone when not drinking is laughable or more learning about this dis-ease is needed. BE WELL
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 821
visch!-
I truly believe that whatever works for you is great. What you are talking about above is what I refer to as "my beast" and upon separating myself from it I can see that it has no power what so ever to make me do anything. I can think about all kinds of things and not act on them.
I don't believe I have a disease that is powerful I see my beast as having no power. In fact now my beast is little more than a nuisance talking crazy stuff in my head. He may think he is "cunning" or "powerful" but, it really is just rambling on about silly things.
However this is just the way I see it. BE WELL also. Jess
I truly believe that whatever works for you is great. What you are talking about above is what I refer to as "my beast" and upon separating myself from it I can see that it has no power what so ever to make me do anything. I can think about all kinds of things and not act on them.
I don't believe I have a disease that is powerful I see my beast as having no power. In fact now my beast is little more than a nuisance talking crazy stuff in my head. He may think he is "cunning" or "powerful" but, it really is just rambling on about silly things.
However this is just the way I see it. BE WELL also. Jess
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 821
Originally Posted by visch1
OK lets end it with a thought that most "relapses" occur as a result of "stinking thinking (beast) as time goes on" but what do I know? BE WELL
Jess
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
More seriously, just because the AV (aka the shyte fairy or whatever people will call it) is awfully quiet for years does not mean it will not raise it's ugly head.
It did for me after 5 years of sobriety and I was not prepared (I am one of those lucky ones who has no cravings or desire to drink). This time around, I am accumulating as many tools on my belt as I can. The beast might lie dormant and the AV might look like it moved overseas or something but I would not make the mistake to assume that it will never pop back up.
Anyway, the one great thing about this thread is that a bunch of alcoholics and addicts can debate recovery methods because they are all sober and are not out there killing themselves. Like a good friend of mine says: There is a bolt for every nut
It did for me after 5 years of sobriety and I was not prepared (I am one of those lucky ones who has no cravings or desire to drink). This time around, I am accumulating as many tools on my belt as I can. The beast might lie dormant and the AV might look like it moved overseas or something but I would not make the mistake to assume that it will never pop back up.
Anyway, the one great thing about this thread is that a bunch of alcoholics and addicts can debate recovery methods because they are all sober and are not out there killing themselves. Like a good friend of mine says: There is a bolt for every nut
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
The creative reading continues.
I said, in contrast, that AV only exists in those who wish to stop drinking. Or stay stopped, I suppose. That includes both you and me.
My AV will always be with me, that is the acceptance part I mentioned above. I just will not ever drink now, regardless of my AV. In fact, I give my AV no regard whatsoever.
I don't really understand what the terms 'dis-ease' or 'stinking thinking' mean in the context of this forum though. They seem to be nothing more than AV to me.
Indeed. That would not be wise. Again, still not consistent with any of the ideas or recommendations presented here.
I am pretty sure that we are not debating recovery methods here, because that is not permitted in this forum.
Onward!
I interpret (this) that an alcoholic has an AV only when they are actively drinking.
For me to think that alcoholic thinking is gone when not drinking is laughable or more learning about this dis-ease is needed.
I don't really understand what the terms 'dis-ease' or 'stinking thinking' mean in the context of this forum though. They seem to be nothing more than AV to me.
I would not make the mistake to assume that it will never pop back up.
I am pretty sure that we are not debating recovery methods here, because that is not permitted in this forum.
Onward!
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