harveywill

I am very confused by advice on this helpful sober recovery website that says "let go", "detach" etc etc; then in the stickys area there is a National Institute of Drug sticky that talks about how you can push for treatment/rehab/counseling EARLY ON. Says don't have to wait until they "bottom out".
Does it matter what we say to our son (24) and how we say it? Or--- do we just tell him to move out due to his behavior and that's it? He is using drugs and drinking excessively. Binge drinker. Not sure what the drugs are. guessing cocaine/pills (valium)? No job right now. he has lived off and on in our extra granny unit connected to our house for the last 5-6 months.
Thanks
Confused Dad

Impurrfect

harvey - welcome to SR, though so sorry for what has brought you here. I haven't read that sticky, lately, but I do know that even if you push for your son to go to rehab, and IF he goes, it's only a step toward recovery.

I'm both a recovering addict (RA) and a recovering codependent who has loved ones who are addicts/alcoholics (A's).

My dad begged me to go to rehab, I could have gone to one for free, but I wasn't ready. I preferred being on the streets smoking crack.

For me, I just got tired of all the bad consequences (like getting locked up) and I chose recovery.

Rehabs are usually quite expensive, though Salvation Army is free. It doesn't come with a guarantee.

Your son isn't really facing any consequences right now...he's doing what he wants and has a roof over his head and food to eat. It isn't easy to tell a loved one to leave, but it's often what we need for OUR sanity.

I'm sure there will be many more parents along soon, but I hope you keep reading and posting.

Hugs and prayers,

Amy

zoso77

Welcome to the Board.

Fair question and a good one. When we talk about "letting go", or "detaching with love", it's in the context of recognizing that until the addict help themselves, there's nothing we can do. We can try to push the addict to go into treatment, or to stop using. But addiction is a monster, and if pushing the addict to stop was all it took, then boards like this one wouldn't exist. The more you hang around here, the more stories you'll read about parents with addict children. And some of the choices these parents have had to make in order to preserve their sanity, or their own safety, are incredibly difficult. I would read a lot of those posts.

If you want your son to move out because of his behavior, that's well within your rights. Doesn't mean it'll be an easy thing to do. It doesn't mean he'll stop using if you ask him to leave. But making him leave does mean he has to fend for himself and accept the consequences of his addiction. You're his father, you love him, and you hate to see him to this to himself, but you shouldn't pay the price for his poor decisions.

When you get enough posts under your belt -- I think it's 5 -- feel free to shoot me a PM.

Best,
ZoSo

Bubovski

Early family days can be very tricky when it comes to drugs and alcohol.
Desperate times probably call for desperate measures and sometimes that degree is hard to determine.
If I could go back five decades I would have chosen A.A. and N.A.

As I said its a tricky issue and opinions vary;I think you will receive some worthy advice here

lizwig

Hi Harvey, another parent here. I'm sorry for what has brought you to this site. I know how desperate I was when I finally reached out so good for you in doing so. Ugh. If I could only push rewind I would have done this so differently. But it was ultimately through those poor choices of mine that I came to learn what would and wouldn't work in regards to my son's addiction. I learnt that no matter how much I wanted him to stop he simply wasn't willing. I've learned that my tears, my nagging, my bribing, my controlling were all used as an excuse to continue using. I learned I was being played and lied to at every turn and my good deeds, motivated by love, were completely taken for granted. That is how I arrived here. Broken and emotionally exhausted. I hadn't slept in months. I had become so distrustful of my ability to make sound decisions, because my decisions all backfired on me, that I could no longer make silly simple ones like what movie to go see. I stopped singing in the kitchen....and laughing at myself...and finding joy in anything. I was well aware this was happening but I didn't have the strength to fight it. My son was killing himself. One hit at a time...BUT....here's the deal. Somewhere I found the courage to get pissed. I made a promise to myself that although I was powerless over his addiction I was not going to let it take me down too. I still had power over myself and I had the ability to change my reactions to all of this. I wrote him a letter. I told him I no longer wanted a front row seat to his self created chaos. I shut his phone off that day. That evening I drug myself to an al-anon meeting, began attending once a week, read every book I heard recommended...and slowly one day at a time my sanity and my strength returned. It's been 9 months..and I feel like me again. I am grateful for this journey. My son is still using and our contact is limited. He has a standing offer of rehab when he asks for it. He's reached out a few times...and each time he does he tells me he loves me. He's just not there yet. Whether he ever is remains to be seen. The bottom line is I had to save myself. I had to find some semblance of joy because I have to survive with or without him. If I ever get the opportunity to rebuild my relationship with my son I will never do for him what he is capable of doing for himself. It sends a subconscious message that even we don't believe they can do it. I do believe my son can. It's been a long five years. I wish I had let go of my end of the rope a long time ago. I'm sorry for the long post. Please take what you like and leave the rest. I'm sorry you are on this journey with the rest of us. But you've found a great group here. Trust me. They've held me up.

jerect

I struggled with the whole letting go/ detachment thing for a long time with my ex... I thought I could push him to his bottom, he would go to rehab and get sober and we would live happily ever after...

I had to hit my bottom first before I could let go and realize that I was powerless over his addiction that no matter what I did or said, that wasn't going to make him sober.. Working a program really helped me to detach and begin working on me...

Chino

I pushed for treatment immediately upon discovering my daughter's IV opiate addiction. She detoxed within the week and I thought everything was back to normal. About six months later she relapsed and it was off to the races. Another detox, followed by another and inpatient rehab. Then another relapse followed all that before she finally committed to recovery on her own, without me saying a word or lifting a finger.

It took all of that ^ for me to learn that letting go meant respecting my daughter as an individual with her own choices.

LoveMeNow

IMO, because addiction is so cunning, there are many varying opinions about it. I personally find the NIDA to be flawed and suspect their data is used for funding.

That said, I find the most valuable information usually comes from recovery addicts. Most say the same thing. Until an addict wants to get clean, they wont!! Sadly, some may never make that choice.

Because addiction is often a family disease or problem, often times, in order to regain our own mental health and core values, we are left with no other decision but to let go and/or detach from the insanity with love.

harveywill

Thank you for all the comments and thoughts.
We did ask him to leave. Asked right after a couple of bad nights where he was around our property with two very intoxicated friends. (not sure if drugs or al)
We had found some type of drug related things in his unit (which we own and is on our property).
We asked him for a meeting. He came late. We basically told him to leave immediately, and listed all the reasons (drug paraphenalia and drinking sessions) why. We asked him to leave right then. He was shocked. Quiet. Asked for a few days to find a place to go but we said no. leave now. He was angry.
We are feeling horrible. horrible. he has not answered any of our calls or texts. Silence.
He has never cut off communication like this. (of course we have never asked him to leave either). We did offer him help. He just drove off.
Anyone had any experiences with this? We are doubting ourselves. (

Eve13

Harveywill, I'm another parent in the same situation as you. We didn't tell our son to leave, he just did when the court tested him positive for marijuana. (violation of probation) Days of no contact. Week or longer not knowing where he was staying. I had to keep figuring he will surface when he needs/wants something. He did go to rehab briefly (felt it would look good to the court) He did go to NA meetings briefly (felt it would look good to the court too).

But today, he is clean. He is sober. He is tested bimonthly for etoh and drugs and will probably go to jail if he tests positive. Because of a host of complications, he is temporarily back in the house, under the boundaries if he uses again, he is out immediately. He has been told, and we are very committed to this.

When he was living elsewhere, that is when my spouse and I realized all of the stress his addiction was causing. We were focused on him - what mistakes he was making, how he was failing to launch, flunking out of college, etc. It allowed us to mobilize our inner reserve and establish boundaries - I can't help him if he doesn't want help, but he also cannot bring us down with him. This is his journey, his life, his decisions.

Hang in there, you guys did the right thing. Talk with your spouse, support each other. Allow time to feel guilty (you will anyhow, right? Might as well give yourself permission!) but then recognize it is your ADULT son who is making these choices. Don't give into his drama (driving off, no contact). Advise? Don't call, don't text. A new day is dawning at the Harveywill household.

lizwig

It's funny isn't it? How our adult children can totally disrespect our boundaries....doing drugs in our homes....putting US at risk by having those items in property owned by us...but then when we call them on it....we feel guilty. It's crazy to me. Your son should be asking for forgiveness from you. I know exactly how you are feeling. When I shut my son's phone off 9 months ago I immediately questioned whether I did the right thing. What if there was an emergency (his definition differs from mine)??!! Our young adults are extremely resourceful. He is testing you. He surely knows how much you love him....he's going to wait it out assuming you will question yourself and call to check on him. I used to have to literally sit on my hands to stop myself from trying to get in touch with my son...remember if nothing changes nothing changes. Be confident in your decision to be the change.

harveywill

lizwig and eve13--your words are SO appreciated. My logical mind was yelling those thoughts to me but I could not hear. I am so upset over the entire situation. I have texted once. It was a relatively friendly text asking him to come and get the rest of his friend's things out of our yard. But that felt so bad. I ended up waiting for a response, waiting.... etc. No response. "Drama" yes, that is what it is. It is so strange because he has not been (in the past) a drama kid. But that is what he is doing. You called it.
I have his phone account. I am not ready to cut that off. Baaaaad feeling just thinking about that.
I guess that is my own sick codependant part coming out.(???) He left important unfinished business here when we told him to leave. i guess he is saying "screw you" and will not follow through on stuff (like getting his own car insurance, medical coverage, phone etc). It is so debilitating.

Eve13

harveywill, we haven't turned off our son's phone either. Honestly, I hate paying for it, BUT, if his very elderly grandma's call him to chat or invite him to lunch, he answers. There is NO WAY I'd sever that right now. He needs that positive Grandma-love, they need to hug him. He knows we will pay through December when the contract is up. We did, (when he went MIA during one of his emotional vulnerable times and we didn't know where he lived and couldn't arrange a well being check with the police) go through our mutual carrier to call every person he had been in contact with until we knew he was ok. It's all on-line through your account.

IRT the other important stuff - medical coverage is now until age 26 under parents policy even if not living at home (yes? that's what we are counting on) car insurance? what is your comfort level paying for 6 months vs. terminating it. Is it worth insuring? Asking because I know many folks don't carry car insurance.

Try to think about this: It's not debilitating, it's acting out. And there are adult consequences for adult decisions.

FeelingGreat

My nephew was told to leave home when he went a step too far. There were abusive texts and hone calls, then silence. Guess what? He found a place to live, is working, and has re-established contact with his parents. They had been complicit with him refusing to grow up by enabling the worst in his behaviour. In his own words he 'had it too easy'.
Sometime they kick and scream their way to becoming adults, but do you really want the alternative?

lizwig

If you aren't comfortable shutting his phone off completely you might consider restricting his texting and any internet capabilities. Then he would have a.....phone. I understand how difficult it is. I had shut my son's texting off long before I made the decision about the phone. He then switched to using Facebook messenger for texting..as I said they are very resourceful. You obviously have to decide what you can live with. I had just reached a spot of complete exhaustion from trying to bend my son to my will. I would zig....He would zag. I finally just cut the crap. I no longer wanted a dime of my hard earned money facilitating his drug deals. I was done making it convenient for him. I've been good with my decision. it was time.

Kindeyes

I'm sorry that you are dealing with addiction with your son. It really tears a parent up and strains even a very good marriage.

My son is 32. His addiction started when he was 14......alcohol and evolved into meth and heroin. He is currently clean and sober. So we have a long history with his addiction.

Watching an adult child affected by addiction is one of the hardest things that I have ever experienced.

You specifically asked about detachment and letting go. It took me a very long time (I'm a slow learner) to come to terms with detachment and letting go.

Detachment for me is removing the emotional attachment to my son's behaviors and addiction. I love him but do my best not to have an emotional reaction. If he wants to be mad at me......that's ok. If he wants to give me the silent treatment....that's ok. If he wants to accuse me of "not loving him".....that's ok. Because just because he says it doesn't make it true. And often, with addiction, their behavior is an attempt to cause an emotional reaction in us.....I let that happen like clockwork for a very long time. It was manipulation at its finest.

Letting go for me is stepping back and allowing my son to live his life even I vehemently disagree with the direction he is going.....even if it could cause his death. I began with the modified "let go or be dragged" and I was definitely holding on to my son soooooo tight that he was dragging me along through the muck of addiction. It was killing me (and I mean that quite literally).

Throughout this process, I never stopped loving him. Not for an instant....but I had to do some things that were very difficult for me. I learned that it was ok (in fact it was critical) that I had boundaries. I needed to hold those boundaries firmly......but always with love. I learned how to say what I mean, mean what I say, and not say it mean.

That is what letting go and detachment means for me. Now that my son is sober (8months), I have to continue to practice those skills (and for me it was a learned skill it did not come naturally) today.

Asking an adult son to move out is difficult but you have established a fair and reasonable boundary for you and your spouse.

I hope you stick around. There is a lot of collective wisdom here on SR and many parents who have walked this path. You are not alone. We will walk with you.

gentle hugs
ke

harveywill

thanks for comments. We have not heard from him at all. We are beating ourselves up!!!! Did we "kick" him out wrong? he asked to stay for a couple days till he found a place to stay. We said no.
HE WAS SHOCKED. Then left. No word and it has been over two weeks.
Did we miss a chance at a real talk? Did we miss a chance at a rehab opportunity? Should we have said yes you can have a couple days to get a place? I was so upset at his recent alcohol and drug behavior that I just wanted him out. I feel terrible, terrible. Feeling like we did not do this right.
Do we let him know about family happenings? (birthdays etc) Do we keep contacting him even thought he is not answering our friendly texts/voicemails? (just a few). thanks for your help.

nancylee

You can go online and check his phone usage since the account is your's. My son was having some issues last year, and we were able to make sure he was ok, since he kept texting people. The numbers of who he texts are on the account, also.
Peace,
Nancy

pravchaw

Hi Harveywill, sorry to welcome you to this forum. I am also a dad of a 21 yo son going through a similar ordeal as you. I too had to ask my son to leave a few months ago. He is addicted to marijuana and now abusing alcohol. Don't beat yourself for kicking him out. What is done is done. He will get in touch with you eventually when he runs out of money or the charity of friends. They can take care of themselves pretty well.

DJ0822

Harveywill - remember back when you had to sit your young son in a time out when he didn't "play well with others"? Remember when you had to put a stop to an upcoming play date/event because he didn't return home on time from the last one? Remember when you had to take the car keys away because he was driving too fast as a new driver? Remember when you had to say no to his playing with friends after school because he was behind in his homework?

Parents never feel good about sticking to "doing the right thing," whether its a time out, a grounding, a denial of a kid's request, or an insistence that at 24 he at least honors your wishes (no dope/paraphernalia in your house). The kid never likes it. The parent never likes handing out the punishment. Yet there are consequences to your son's actions, regardless of his age.

More power to you for having the guts to hold him accountable for HIS actions.

IMO you did the right thing. Stand firm.