Carrots

Brief history: Daughter is 18 and a few months. She's been using for 3 years. DOC: marijuana but was using a variety of other things, including snorting xanax, by the end. Was given the ultimatum: had to leave house or be clean. She did leave for a week when she was still 17 so she was basically homeless. (We changed the locks which was so hard to do but it made our point very very clear.) She asked to come back and we made a written contract. She started back up again and finally was 'caught' by us and we gave her the choice of signing up for rehab or leaving with no more financial help or contact from us.

She chose rehab and has just completed a intensive outpatient program and received her 30 day chip. She now goes to voluntary continuing care and plans to leave for college (out of state) in 4 weeks time. She seems motivated and clear headed, but still has "friends" that she hangs with from her old crowd. I have mostly accepted that she will decide to use or not use in her future and I have no control over that; but I am not okay with providing financial support, use of car, house to live in, or tuition for someone who is using.

We are going to talk to her and see what her plan is. We hope that she will WANT to go to Cont Care and WANT to go to meetings (she does have a sponsor), but she is also just 18 and I'm sure still feels a little invincible since she had a lot of "not yets" in comparison to the older people in rehab.

My question is this: can we require her to go to "voluntary" continuing care and meetings in exchange for continuing to live here, use of the car, and us paying her first semester of college tuition? Or is that trying to control her path? It feels OK to me because makes me feel OK with providing support. After she goes off to college I know all bets are off, but she isn't getting a car and she has to maintain a 3.0 GPA or we won't pay for the next semester tuition, so at least there is that.

Advice and thoughts please!
Thanks in advance!

wiscsober

Sounds like a good plan to me.

Seems like you have set reasonable boundaries and expectations.

What you are doing also many other parents do with their children who aren't addicted.

I would have been happy if my son just stayed off the drugs, and had stopped wasting people's time with rehab. and counseling.

HopefulmomtoD

My recovering alcoholic DS first completed a 30 day inpatient rehab over a year ago. During family week at the rehab, there were five young adults attending with their families. All relapsed within the first year- most within months. My DS went to another 30 rehab this January and is now over six months sober. I'm telling you this because beating addiction is hard and it rarely happens on the first try. (I think the stats are less than 5%)

There is absolutely NO way I would pay for an out of state college experience for your troubled addict daughter who has only 30 days of sobriety. Many of the other kids at my son's rehab, came there straight from their college dorm rooms. Their addictions only got worse- these kids were freshman, too.

You are the parent and you absolutely can set boundaries for your home. Such as, if she would like to live at home she must be working on her recovery. That should include going to meetings and working with a sponsor or whatever rules you put in place.

My DS is back home. He must be working on recovery to live here. Our house, our rules.

It took me a while to accept that my DS wasn't like a lot of his friends that were going off to college. However, his choices, his consequences.

pravchaw

I agree with Hopefulmom. A local college is probably best for now.

I told my son last semester I'd pay his tuition only if he passes his courses. He went back into addiction and failed all his courses. Now he is stuck with the debt (he has paid a chunk off by working but more remains and I doubt he will go back in the short term).

I think you are further along than me in your recovery. I did not clue in that he was an addict till he was 19 (I think he was using since 13 or so). Its taken me a couple of years to understand the nature of addiction. He went to a out of town college and his addiction became worse. Then he came back and went to a local college while staying at home. However his addiction is now well established. He is till struggling and likely will not continue his education. You know some of our story.

Carrots

Thank you so much for your thoughts!! I understand all that. I agree 100 percent and would rather not have her go away. But the deal was if she finished rehab she gets one semester of college. (She has a scholarship so it's cheaper than in-state). I KNOW drugs are everywhere but this college is in a small mountain town vs Los Angeles, where we live. I just feel like she's much more apt to relapse sooner here, at home, where all her friends do drugs and its just everywhere. And where medical marijuana is literally a skip away from anyone who wants it.

I sort of feel that just making her stay in rehab is too much involvement, much less forcing her to stay home for another year and hang out on the same places and with the same people.

It's hard because what I did with my son (21) worked so well, but I just have no idea what to do with her. But I sorta feel like I have to let go and let her fail, if she's going to fail. Living in my house with me hovering and doing and worrying isn't helping her see her life as her own responsibility- and she's certainly not going to see it as unmanageable if I'm managing it.

pravchaw

You make good points. . You know more about your situation than anyone else. It worked fine with my younger son (19 now) who was Also heavily into pot in high school and first year in an out of town university. . However in the last few months something has clicked, perhaps watching what has happened to his brother. He seems to have turned himself allowed and has started to do much better in a very difficult program. (Actuarial Mathematics)

I don't think my younger son was ever an addict like my older son. He was going through a phase and looks like he has broken through it. I think my older son became hard core living in residence on campus.

cleaninLI

Carrots,
I agree with wiscsobor. It looks like a well thought plan. She will be getting away from "people, places and things" that could suck her back into her previous drug lifestyle. You have set strong boundaries. You are relinquishing control over her life. You are teaching her that " her actions" equal "her consequences". ie "must maintain a 3.0 GPA in order to receive next semester's tuition." The atmosphere of going away to college and living on campus, being around other students will hopefully keep her focussed on her academics and her future vs. living a stagnant party life with other "friends" that may not value a higher education.
Great plan carrots!

incitingsilence

I shall tread lightly. And yes I am the mother of a recovering addict.

It doesn’t matter where she lives…
Where she goes to college…

If she wants to use she will. Hasn’t she proved that one already?

You essentially bribed her, honestly I can’t find a better word as that is what it looks like, with one semester of college paid if she went to rehab. It would seem she fulfilled her end of the deal . Are you trying to change the terms?

How about a totally different thought process. Let her make the choice to go to college where she wants to and honor your promise to pay another semester if she maintains a 3.0 GPA if you promised that …and from there if you promised more you will have to hold your end up or renegotiate the terms telling her that you were wrong and shouldn’t have bribed her to do anything because she was so very capable of finding her way and succeeding on her own.

Believe in her, see her as capable and don’t take the learning away.

And no if you manage her life then she won’t be able to see where it is unmanageable and it will create a rift between you both and will also perpetuate a lot of resentment for both of you. And neither of you need more chaos do you?

I know how hard it is to let go, and the fear associated with the unknown. But I have so much faith in our children, that they can learn, that they are teachable, if we change our reactions to them and allow them to have to work it out as it comes.

Also please note and I do find this important. If you always did everything for her, instead of teaching her how to do for herself, be very careful where you draw the line. Remember to teach not cut off, there is a huge difference. I have see many parents throw their children to the wolves after years of making their children dependent on them … frustrated that all the fixing, saving, and managing didn’t change them into what they thought their child should be like. So they washed their hands…

I do wish her the best…

Remember in it all to work on you too, what an awesome gift to yourself and to her.

Carrots

Incitingsilence, I see your point. Thank you for your insights. I don't know if it was bribery though? College was always a given in our family if the kid did the work. She did her work, she got in, she earned a 80% tuition waiver. I don't see any bribery, rather a consequence. In order to keep our support she had to be clean and in recovery. When she used, she broke the agreement. Now that she's clean, she's back in compliance.

We absolutely want her to go to college. I couldn't agree with you more that if she wants to use, she will use. I think her odds are better being away from the same places, people, environments. But her choice to do drugs is a crap shoot. I have ZERO control over that. I do know she really wants to go to college- its really important to her- which is why the consequence of losing our support was so effective in getting her into a rehab program. College in my mind is worked out. As long as she does the work and keeps the grades and doesn't get arrested etc, we will continue to support her progress.

My larger concern was whether I could require her to keep going to her continuing care rehab (its voluntary and free) and meetings in order to let her use a car. I was worried I was trying to control her. I think I've gotten my answer. Thank you to everyone for the time to respond. It's difficult sometimes to know what's responsible parenting and what's enabling.

cleaninLI

Carrots,
You mentioned about requiring her to go to the voluntary program in exchange for her use of your car. I don't see anything wrong with that. If you feel that rehab program is benefitting her and would like her to continue to attend until she leaves for college this fall. Perhaps it will keep her headed in the right direction and also use up some of the time she might otherwise spend with her party friends this summer. It looks to me that you are so relieved that she is now "clean" and do not want anything or anyone to jeopardize it this summer, before she heads off to college. That is a reasonable concern. I think you did an excellent job in that you knew what was important to your daughter "college" and gave her the consequence of withdrawing your support if she did not attend rehab. It worked. Congratulations on your daughter's recovery.

LoveMeNow

If we take credit for their recovery, then I assume you also believe we should take the blame for any failures/relapses???

Carrots, this is a tough one. I think being a freshman in college, away from home, is a very tricky year for most 18 yr olds. I had a car but to be very honest, that was a mistake on my parents behalf. I didn't earn it, I didn't deserve it and I really abused the privilege. JMHO

HopefulmomtoD

Do you trust her with the car? Have her behaviors with the car given you reason not to trust her? 30 days of out patient rehab does not change everything. If she was truly working a recovery, she would understand that your trust is not a given- that she destroyed your trust with her lies/behaviors. Trust and privileges are things she needs to earn back through actions.

How about wording it differently and don't make the car use dependent upon going to after care? Perhaps tell her I don't trust you with the car. You are going to have to do (actions, like aftercare) in order for me to start earning back your trust.

incitingsilence

Again change your thinking. If it was a given and she did the work and it sounds as if she did especially earning an 80 percent tuition waver. Then why did she have to go to rehab to begin with? Why tell her I won’t pay for college if you don’t go to rehab?

Yeah I know OMG she is an addict …

Maybe be aware of where you are changing the rules after the fact.

And ask yourself am I reacting based on the past or with what I have right now in front of me. She earned a clean slate. And you really need to give it to her. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t have boundaries because you should. That doesn’t mean she doesn’t get held responsible for what is hers, or she is viewed as sick and incapable, it just means that you don’t treat her as if she is in active addiction when she isn’t.

But lets backtrack…

Boundaries are for you, not her. They have nothing to do with her at all, never did, never will. They are for you. And any conditions, if you don’t I won’t…or if you do I will. Well that is just unhealthy.

Motive is huge, watch your motives when setting boundaries. None should have to do with keeping her clean or as a reaction to her using.

You can not make or keep her clean, no matter what conditions you place on her.

Boundaries begin with I.

There is no we in addiction.. Her addiction is hers, not yours and it never was. You have no control.

And the car …I have no opinion there, my son had his own car which was his and he maintained and paid the insurance on. I didn’t pay it before the crack, and didn’t pay after, why would I, it wasn’t my responsibility.

And maybe to prompt some more thinking.

As you wrestle with what to do in terms of her, have you ever thought what standards you are holding yourself too.

Do you have a recovery program? Are you working yours how you wish her to work hers?

I find that everyone learns the most when allowed to dispel the sickness in their thinking. Her choosing to go to aftercare, and meetings or choosing not to will be a learning experience for her.

And one more thing to show no control. I find so many live in this bubble with some thinking that isn’t healthy.

That if one goes to meetings they are all ok now.
That if one doesn’t go that means they are still sick.

Neither mean anything, at all, and behavior will still be the only indicator to what the truth is. Can you look at her behavior as a gauge to guide you, because in the end that is where the truth is.

I get the trust issues spoken about and do suggest you be very open and honest with her. I always was with my son, he knew exactly what my boundaries were and that they had nothing to do with him.

BeavsDad

Another strategy would be to have her get deferable student loans.

Then tell her that you will pay them off for her only if she produces a diploma.

This way you won't have to worry about money being wasted and won't have to play warden with the GPA.

If she blows the scholarship, she can up the loans and you can renegotiate.

cleaninLI

Carrots,

If I'm not mistaken, you mentioned that she would not have a car while she is away at college and that she would be using it while she is living at home. Is that correct?

The congrats are for successfully setting your boundaries which allowed your daughter to own her choices. Creating a successful change and recovery for your daughter.

Carrots, I am not implying that you are responsible for her addiction, nor would you be for any future relapses.

atalose

30 days clean after 3 years of use is nothing. When a person truly wants to change their life they don’t continue the behaviors and relationships that had caused problems in the past. She is still hanging with old friends! Not a good sign. What about her behavior?

It’s been said over and over that alcoholic/addicts don’t have relationships they take hostages….and you have unknowingly negotiated a deal with an addict to pay for a semester of school away from home where she is not going to be accountable to anyone except herself. This may be an expensive lesson you’re going to have to learn but I think you already know that and seem to almost be predicting it.

I think if you are prepared for the next step……if she does relapse, if she does fail out of school…….then what? What are you then prepared to do or in the mean time what steps or meetings or counseling will you be doing for YOU?

Carrots

Thanks everyone. She doesn't get a car in college. At least not from us. We didn't let her older brother have a car his first year of college either. That's just our family rule for cars in college.
I feel OK about our choice to withhold support if she's not clean. Not because of her but because I'm not going to give any of my hard earned money to help keep her in addiction. She had to leave our house if she was going to use. Leaving our house meant leaving us/walking away from our support and protection. She knew the deal. She broke the deal because yep, she's an addict. She's working pretty hard now to stay within the parameters of the deal.

Am I terrified of her getting worse in college. Yes. Am I terrified she'll get worse living at home. Yes. Can I change it, control it? No. I agree with Beavs dad. She can certainly pay for her own college, and when she was deciding if she wanted to commit to recovery vs. face her future on her own, we told her that. We said, "If you want to be a druggie that's your choice. You can still go to college and pay with loans but we can't give you any money or help you, because we cant support you using."

Now how to know if she stays in recovery in college-I have no idea. I'm going to go on faith and when/if she relapses we will deal with that when the time comes. But, I will play warden with the GPA. Not because she's an addict but because that is a family rule. My son lost tuition one semester because he dropped to a 2.8. He took out a loan and got a 4.0 the next semester. We will pay it back for him when he gets a diploma (but he doesn't know that-it will be our gift to him upon graduation)

Yes, we have had issues with her using a car. A year ago she broke rules by smoking in car. She lost its use for a month. After getting it back, she broke rules again. So we re-confiscated it and sold it. She's been riding her bike, bumming rides, or taking the city bus to her part time job for about a year. I took time off from my job over the past 8 weeks to support her recovery and attend all the family classes and family group sessions. Now, I'm going back to work. If she is going to continue going to rehab classes, she will need the use of a car because rehab is far from our house without any reasonable mass transit options. But I'm nervous because its been an issue in the past. So, that's the rub.

I like what incitingsilence said about the boundaries. I will make sure she understands the car boundaries are for her parents and if she breaks them, removal of car privileges is easy enough. I do have to make her accountable for meeting MY requirements for car use. I wasn't sure if that was me trying to control her, but I think now I see that it's what has to happen for ME to let her use my car.

So, as long as its about me and not about her, the boundary is acceptable and not trying to control them?

Carrots

Everyone, rest assured. I'm doing lots of things of things for me. The rehab program we selected was a family program so we've all been busy with individual, group, and family sessions. I have been in individual and marriage counseling for awhile. I've added in Al-Anon. I belong to a book club, go out with friends, travel, exercise a lot, work a very challenging and rewarding career. One-two years ago, my life was pretty wrapped up in following her around. I felt like it was my parental duty to do whatever I needed to do to get her through high school and to 18. I love her with all my heart and soul. I'll never give up on her-she's the daughter of my heart- but her life is hers. Whether or not she uses her future and pursues her potential, my life will go on and my future will be good. My future is not dependent on her choices. I'll feel feelings. I'll be proud if she continues her recovery and makes it, I'll be sad if she doesn't. But my life is mine and hers is hers.

If she fails out of college, she will have to figure out what to do. She's welcome at my house if she's clean and working a program. But my money and resources will not be used for her to pursue her addiction. That's a boundary I've always been very crystal clear about.

HopefulmomtoD

You're sounding pretty healthy, Carrots. I'm getting there, too. :-)

And, I get you on the car thing. My son got a DUI and couldn't drive for seven months and had to pay quite a bit of fines. It took him almost two years to get the fines paid off. He also had to have money for a car and insurance.

In the meantime, who took him to rehab, and AA meetings, and job interviews, and work? yep, me. When he finally started driving again, I think I was almost as happy as him.

Carrots

Thanks for the compliment. Some days are better than others. Some days are downright awful and I feel like I'm back at square one. But the day she left and we changed the locks on the doors was the day everything changed for me. I had to accept that I had no control and she might die. That was the worst day of my life.
I've been working hard, day by day, and it does get.....easier? That doesn't seem like the right word because it's never easy, but maybe more serene?

I'm glad to hear your son is doing well. Good on you to drive him around but I am really happy you are free from that now because ugh, I just hear you! Two years is a really long time!