Skydreamer73

Hey all,
Been reading here for awhile but just recently joined so let me thank all of you for your writings, I do find strength in what I read here!!!!!

I am a strong person, and very logical, which my AW loves unless she is drinking/using then she absolutely hates it because I am usually at least 1 step ahead of her, then when she levels out she will say "wow I wish I could see things in advance the way you do" her doctor has even said on many occasions "would you just listen to the guy when it comes to this stuff, you know you can't see it and he can and he has proven himself over and over again" While this is true I think she resents it, and has admitted her biggest problem is she gets in these modes where she self admittedly acts like a 2 year old (she is 41 btw) and says "I am an adult and I will show you" (now the "you" in that statement could be me, her parents, our kids, friends, etc..)

Most of my friends are the same as me and very logical thinkers, and they really can not wrap their heads around what she does in these times, truth is she is Bi-polar type 1 w alcohol abuse and if you think in logic you will probably never get close to understanding, it has taken me 13 plus years to get as close as I have, and I best describe it to my friends like this "you know the quick start guide to your new computer, well here is the quick start guide to my situation, remove all logic and in it's place put hyper emotion and desire, now read this quick start guide on a foggy mountain road where you can not see the warning signs but you just keep driving full steam ahead and truly believe you are just fine right up to the scene of the crash" They all seem to now grasp things a little better, however while I have some of the best friends and family on the planet, I do not think they can truly understand the way most of you here will, so here is my question...

How are you all handling the resentment and rebuilding trust? It seems I have the greatest woman on the planet, but about every 2-3 years we end up having a melt down, with a lot of destruction left in it's wake and I ask myself "wow, why am I still here?" Truth be told I want to be here, I love her, love our kids, family, etc and have a hard time dismissing all the quality times over a few months of chaos every 3 years. If I had to live through this daily for years like I read some do, I would be gone, in fact we were apart for 3 years back about 8 years ago, but then she got help for the Bi polar, took meds and worked at a new life so after several months I finally accepted her offer to try again and it was great, for 3 years, then a major and I mean major hiccup occurred, she found herself running w an ex high school friend she had recently ran into after 20 years and things just lit up on fire (they both acted like they were 16 again, her friend still does I am told), and I warned her trouble was coming, I did not realize how bad it would end up being, but I warned her it was going to be bad, and it was. To keep this short and leave out details as to not reveal names, etc a friend ended up dead by the hands of another person because of the lies my AW's long lost friend was telling and I found myself in a police station with my AW as she explained what she knew and there were details in there that cut me to the bone.... Keep in mind prior to this all happening I lost one of my closest friends to a medical issue at age 36....

All this snapped her back into reality, she came clean and went to therapy (counseling not rehab) and over time we became even closer than before, my emotional wounds healed for the most part and things were good, except for my work, I was in debt deep and had to find a way, which in time I did, and in a year and a half of hard work and lots of travel I made back just about all of the 80k in debt the business had suffered due to the economy, and my lack of focus during all of this, and 3-4 months ago I was feeling pretty good, then my old friend Bi-polar emerged, I saw it coming like I had before, but this time I could do nothing, nothing except watch her hit the wall, I tried a few times to talk to her, go to therapy, etc, but she couldn't listen (yes I mean couldn't, as in was not capable) and the alcohol started again, then in a short period of time that lead to pain killers and eventually a month or so of cocaine use. To top it all off she had had a gastric bypass 16 months ago and in my new research I discovered that this usually intensifies the alcohol effect and makes it easier to become an alcoholic, in fact the 3rd question on the rehab eval form asked if you have ever had a gastric bypass....

At this point I had no choice but to simply watch her hit the wall, she drained her bank account (keep in mind it didn't have but a 2 grand in it thank god) hit her CC for a small cash advance and then she was broke and had to look in the mirror, she had no where else to get money from as I had called everyone I knew she may call for money and informed them there was something going on and secured all the valuables out of reach. At this point she was coming home all messed up, picking fights, then passing out, just to wake up crying and more often than not using me for a human blanket as she cried herself back to sleep while telling me she didn't deserve me and she needed help, but the next day it was game on again until finally family stepped in and she checked herself into rehab, completed 20 days, now has 45 or so days clean, goes to out patient and has attended 20 AA & NA meetings in just 2 weeks and has been absolutely wonderful and loving, working hard to stay on recovery and make her wrongs right.

I am happy and so proud of her, it took a little bit of time but in reality she took control in the end, she didn't wait until she was hospitalized against her will and she now says she can honestly see how fast it got out of control and will continue to work on herself instead of getting complacent and thinking medication alone was enough and I believe her. I am sure most of you on here that have ever realized all you can truly do is to do nothing know how hard this was, and how much you have to fight the urge to help or give in because you just end up enabling, but now I find myself asking myself how do I heal? The business is down again because I lack focus, the lies I was told have cut again, my vision of happiness stepped on for the 3rd time and like I said I truly believe her, but I can't help from asking myself what if this happens again, what if this happens when I am 50 or 60, how do I trust again? I love her, but I have always said love alone is not enough, and love alone seldom fixes anything, it takes courage, forgiveness and understanding to make things work and I am afraid the well is getting dry.

Sorry this has gotten so long, we actually have therapy tonight then it is also family night at out patient so maybe it is all on my head and I needed to get it out, but I was just wondering how people are coping with the resentment and learning to rebuild trust yet again. I have already promised myself that now she has the tools and vision, but if it happens again I am done, but I want to give it my best shot since she has put in so much effort this time, I just need to find a way to let go of the resentment, I know it will take time, a lot of time, but I need to feel like me again...

Thanks for listening (reading) I am not use to feel so weak and conflicted, and I have been trying hard to stay up beat especially around her as to not sabotage her recovery, I have slowly mentioned a few things that hurt as to not bombard her but also to heal myself and she has said it hurts but she needs to hear some of it because she said she doesn't remember most of the whirlwind, and while I told her trust will take time, I have never really mentioned the resentment, she can't do anything about it anyway, and I do not want her carrying it around making it harder on her.

Thanks again all!!!!!!!!!

wiscsober

I appreciate your post

it is a bit dense so I may have missed a lot....but it shows you have a lot of insight in to your life.

Building and restoring trust takes some time being clean and sober. If you are working a 12 step recovery program a lot of what you are looking for will come from doing a 4/5 steps....8/9step....10/12 steps.

Look up the 9th step promises...a lot of your answers can be found there

Just as my life was restored anew....many of my relationships were restored.

Tuffgirl

Welcome Skydreamer.

Sadly, this post parallels my own experiences with a bi-polar Mother. She has major manic episodes every 2-3 years, drinks like there is no tomorrow while manic, spends money, buys amazingly expensive and useless junk, runs wild, picks up homeless people and animals and brings them home...gosh you name it, she has probably done it over the last 20 years.

My Dad finally moved out 10 years ago; they remain married for financial and benefit reasons but that is all. He finally hit his own rock bottom, after she set the house on fire.

What concerns me is what you describe as remorse and horror on her part after she stabilizes and seem to be encouraged by her attempts to find "recovery". I have to say we (my family) have really struggled with the chicken or egg form of mental illness and alcoholism. I really don't think the issue is alcoholism with my Mom...I believe the drinking is simply her form of self medication. But if your wife finds help and solace at AA, more power to her!

Truth be told, medicated or not, recovery or not, My Mom still has these episodes every 2-3 years. Now, we plan on it. We manage her environment as she goes through them. We hope each time she will consider adding a serious anti-psychotic to stabilize her quickly, but she can't get there once she is in a manic state. She just can't.

I have some resentments. She is meaner than a wet hornet when she is manic. It's challenging to have one's Mother spit in your face while calling you the most horrible names ever. She is untrustworthy and unreliable when manic. I frankly don't like her at all while manic. So when she gets this way, I stay away from her, as do my siblings and Dad.

So, we grit our teeth and deal with those episodes. Then we move on from them. We let go of our resentments because this is something she struggles to control anyway. It's a biological disorder; its not personal. And we know, similarly to other mental illnesses, denial is a major part of it. No amount of talking, guilting, or expecting/wishing will force her to act differently.

So what I am saying here is maybe instead of looking for ways to let go of resentment and rebuild trust; find acceptance instead. This is who she is. Sounds like you like her for most of the time; this is that time you don't. And I know when my Mom is like this, she doesn't like herself much either. We find that by allowing her to be this person, and loving her anyway, she is far less apt to go so far into mania that major damage is done.

P.S. She doesn't remember the way you do, but she does remember. Her brain is misfiring when she is manic; it prevents the memory from functioning properly. Amazing thing but true. Sharing things with her, especially the bad, may only cause her distress or flat out denial. I think of it this way - what if someone told you your memories were false? That you can't trust your own judgment? That your experiences weren't true? I know I'd have a very hard time with that myself.

jmartin

Skydreamer,
Thanks for posting, sorry you are here. My AW also has a bipolar component, though it is not as extreme, I don't think. She isolates in her depressive phase, and drinks. She also drinks as part of a stress response to quell anxiety.

For me, you have asked the key question, can I get to a place where I can forgive and trust afterwards. Having dealt with I think more minor episodes than you have every few months or so for the past ten years, I will tell you I find it difficult still. Each time she relapses, she tries a new thing in an attempt to achieve sobriety - counseling, AA, more AA, medication, different medication, inpatient treatment, another medication, and so on. This time is the charm, really, I promise.

Each time, I have tried to forgive and support her, but each time so far (I now see) eventually the relapse pattern begins, either stress or depression related, and it is hard to watch. She denies the problem when I ask her how she is doing, and she shuts off her support system so she can obsess on the current object of pain - work stress, health problem, and so on. The treatment program she did recently was good for me, because the family program that was included helped me much better understand the process and how to recognize the signs.

But the emotional roller coaster is still very hard to take (she has relapsed once since treatment) and this forum and Alanon have both helped me at least sort through the collapse of hope that has accompanied each relapse. I am no longer angry with her for using, but I am frustrated at her seeming inability to break her own pattern using the tools she has learned with treatment and AA.

The thing that continually surprised me is how deeply my emotional state is affected by the relapses, because of the broken trust. It has happened often enough that I am conflicted - how could I have (again) built up my trust and hope only to have it shattered by the isolating, lying, and "eff it all" attitude she gets to in her relapse pattern. And why am I surprised when it is really the expected outcome until she can somehow find the key breaking that pattern? Maybe she can, maybe she can't, that is something I cannot control.

The key for me, as I currently understand it, is accepting that, and coming to my own understanding of what it means. I need to decide for myself what I can accept and tolerate, set boundaries accordingly, and let her do what she needs to do. If my boundaries are violated, I may need to take action - not to punish her, but to take care of myself and others that might be affected. In theory, if I have undertaken this properly, I can do this with love, not out of anger or a sense of betrayal.

As for trust, in my experience it is not something that appears out of nowhere, it must be re-earned, and starting from a place of profound distrust, that ain't easy. We are currently working with a counselor who has been very helpful in showing us ways to do this, a step at a time, but I know that apple cart is easily upset.

In the past few days, I have gone from hopeless to cautiously optimistic, but another relapse may be a deal breaker for me.

BlueSkies1

I have never known anyone like this, but after reading your story I thought the same things Tuffgirl posted, and she's btdt.
I would expect this to reoccur every so many years. I would mentally plan for it, put the due date on the calendar.
I love how Tuffgirl said acceptance. Can you have a good life inbetween episodes and prepare yourself in some way for the upcoming episode?
I think you can if you want to...and that's where decision making comes in.
I know the mental issue of controlling future outcome is so very difficult. I have my own issues with that.
I have had to let go of the outcome.
For me, it's will he get drunk today or not.
We have to weigh the scales. Is the relationship worth it the rest of the time?
For me, it is learning how to handle my decisions while he is drinking. After having been down this road enough times, I finally understood that I don't have any control over it, and that there are things I can do to not react in the ways that I used to that didn't help me.
So what can you do to prepare yourself if it happens again? Maybe it won't, but history usually repeats itself.
Acceptance that history more than likely will repeat itself, and how you can prepare for it.

Skydreamer73

Thanks everyone, I agree with everything mentioned, (including my post being dense-LOL) and I ask myself a few questions in those times, 1) is walking away over 2-3 bad months worth it when you have amazing years in between. 2) If I could remove the bi-polar would I? I answer no to both questions today, to me it is not worth walking away just yet, and I say no to removing the bi-polar simply because what if it is somehow connected to the parts of her I really love? Would I take away the symptoms, and destruction though, absolutely!!!!

I try my best to never guilt her, in fact I usually do not mention 75% of what I know and when we need to discuss the critical ones I tell her " I am not discussing this to hurt you, I do not want you to feel punished or guilty as that will not help me and certainly not help you" then we discuss whatever issue it was that occurred that we have to deal with, and most times we do this in our on going therapy sessions so the counselor is present. I do take pride in the fact the counselor we see has told us both that in his 30 plus years of work in this field he sees very few partners as open and good for someone in this state as me, and he tells her to relish in that and realize in all these years he has never seen me tell her anything other than what is best for her, and tells her that she is also an amazing partner for me and that she helps balance many things in my life, he rarely ever cusses but he once said "I am not just saying this because I am your therapist, I see countless couples that make no sense or walk away for less, but I have known you for 8 years and you two just make "F-----g sense" Not that I am a saint or perfect by any means, but that I do have a fair understanding of the cycle, I do realize it is not personal and I somehow seem to have the patience's to not confront when using or manic and wait for a better time to start helping, and I admit that feels good but the feeling on edge gets old sometimes....

I also agree that the drinking/using is self medication, and I recently noticed something in this episode, caffeine!!!! This time she was not drinking for 4 months the longest ever, it was not part of a program she just agreed to my request to stop because she could see it was hard to keep control of. I then noticed over a months time her caffeine intake tripled, then the jitters started, then our conversations got weird, then the drinking started again in wicked force and that lead to intermittent opiate use.

What gives me hope is like I said this time she went for help at our request instead of forced into a hospital, in fact she would come home in her stupper and say things like I need help, but then the next day not remember, and this time she went through rehab and got an education, and this time she said she can look back and while not remember all the details she can see how it went from calm to a tornado in weeks. She is doing everything she is suppose to, and in one of our sessions she agreed with my caffeine theory and so did the Dr. and has agreed to make a switch to green tea or anything WO caffeine. I also had her write a letter to herself that is sealed and that I hold, I have no idea what it says, but I asked her to write something that I could hand to her that she would see in her own words to let herself know she was in danger, and the counselor liked this so we shall see what happens, I hope to never have to use it! While I believe we are on a much better and much more prepared path this time, I know there are no promises that the monster will not return, I just hope to reduce his free time and damage should it happen, and I really needed to vent this issue out of me, so again I apologize for it getting so long and thank all of you tons for listening and commenting!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tuffgirl

Great idea! I've been asking for years for my Mom to do the same, or record a video when she is stable. She tends to turn on her family when manic and psychotic, so it makes getting help very challenging.

Now, my brother, alos bi-polar with a checkered past because of it, has been able to find and develop an excellent relationship with his psychiatrist and work out a plan with the Dr and his wife to manage episodes with additional medication (usually Lithuim or something strong) but he has to get himself into see the Dr. That's the key - it has to be his choice.

And when bi-polar folks are manic and riding high on that...its damn near impossible to get them to seek the help that makes them stop feeling like that. Find something that works for you and your wife, and you can live a perfectly wonderful life together. But like any other chronic disease, it needs to be properly and carefully managed.

My brother has a wonderful wife and two young boys. He went on to be quite successful in his career and is living a good life, regardless of his mental health problems. It can be done, but it will take some serious commitment on your wife's part to work that plan to manage the episodes.

And know that sometimes, perfectly good meds simply stop working. I did a lot of reading about this (20 years of my life has been spent dealing with mental illness!) and it is based on the body's physiology changing, stress being a big factor, but also hormones, seasonal changes, etc. I thought my Mom was refusing to take her meds...was shocked to find after a blood test that her levels were normal, and she was totally manic and psychotic.

And for what it is worth, and I know I am biased here when I say this, I have found many people with mental "mood disorders" are very amazing, creative, intelligent, and kind-hearted people to be around. A lot of our leaders, great thinkers, and artists have this affliction. It's really not terribly uncommon.

Good luck to you, keep coming back!
~T

bradychi

It is all about your happiness. I have been away from my abf of four yrears for about three weeks. I miss the sober him terribly, the good times were really good, but the bad times were really bad. I got to the point where I was afraid to go to work because I never knew what I was coming home to.( I work midnights, weekends) He left me because he said he can't be himself. Money is really tight now, and I am scared, but I can go to work and come home and I know my house is gonna look the same as when I left it and I don't have to worry about babysitting a 40 year old man. It sucks being away from him and I worry constantly, but I am finding serenity in my own life, day by day. You sound so much like me, always knowing exactly what is coming and trying to prep for it and trying to keep control. You will know if it is time to walk away, when you just can't go back to loving and trusting her. Only you can decide if and when the time is right, otherwise you will make yourself crazy with what ifs.

Skydreamer73

Oh I agree on the meds, we actually just had one changed from a slow release to a regular dose due to a change in her body, problem when they start self medicating is they wipe out the meds they took. I remember in rehab group her telling the group that her problem is mania and then she gets euphoric and one of the younger guys said "well that sounds awesome actually I wish I could just walk around euphoric", she told him " yeah it sounds great and at the time feels great but then it tells you hey lets go here, lets go there, lets try this, lets try that and the next thing you know you are lost and destroyed everything, so it really isn't as much fun as you may think". I also agree with you on them being wonderful people when not in self destruct mode, it is why I tell myself I wouldn't remove it from her, but could do WO the symptoms.... I think anything is possible and one thing I do know is that she does love me like no other, and I told her if she is willing to stick with our plan then I am willing to do the same, and if it doesn't work quite right we will work through it, but we have to try and not just live in a false hope of the meds will take care of everything.

Brady I am glad to hear you have some security in your life, that is a hard choice, but probably the best one you can make, my Aw and I split up for several years about 8 years ago during a long episode, it was her that left me actually when I realized things were not normal and I quit going along for the ride, then when she tried to come back for awhile I refused to let my heart back out there (didn't want to confuse the kids either though) but I finally did and glad I did, but in those years as much as they hurt I realized I could be happy WO her and when she did her 20 days recently I admit the first week was weird and lonely, the second week I worked on the house and the last week I said screw it and made a point to visit friends and family I had not seen in awhile and it felt good, and it reminded me while I would like it better if she were there, but I had some fun alone too and would be ok if I had to, and enjoyed not worrying those days, so I think rehab helped us both in different ways and I feel good with it, I just find myself wondering "what if" and I know I need to let that go, and I believe time will do that, like it has before. I wish you the best in you journey and new freedom and thanks for chiming in!!!!