AW man handled
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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AW man handled
Hello Friends,
Here is an interesting one. (I think.)
So my AW has a new job. She calls me this AM from a business trip and says that we was sexually harassed and “man handled” while at a bar last night by one of her new coworkers. YES, I have been completely supportive as she is pretty upset about it.
The problem is that I don’t feel supportive at ALL. There is never an excuse for a man roughing or harassing a woman; end of story… BUT, (this is the tricky part), she can be way flirty when she is drunk and I can see how some guy could take it the wrong way and too far. I also feel that because of her alcoholism she frequently puts herself in an environment that has a much higher probability for this kind of thing to happen. It is consistently her choice to stay out with a bunch of strange guys and get drunk. This instance is exactly one of my codie brain imagined scenarios that results from her drinking too much.
Finally – she has refused to report the guy to her company HR group which I find nuts for lots of reasons. One of my irrational thoughts is that she doesn’t want to expose the situation because there were other office people there that might say that she was behaving inappropriately also. (again – there is never a time with a man can harass a woman…).
So – I am putting this out there for thoughts. I am trying to maintain a die hard support position but it is rough considering I believe it is the result of her choices. AND am I enabling her by being supportive?
Sincerely,
PS
Here is an interesting one. (I think.)
So my AW has a new job. She calls me this AM from a business trip and says that we was sexually harassed and “man handled” while at a bar last night by one of her new coworkers. YES, I have been completely supportive as she is pretty upset about it.
The problem is that I don’t feel supportive at ALL. There is never an excuse for a man roughing or harassing a woman; end of story… BUT, (this is the tricky part), she can be way flirty when she is drunk and I can see how some guy could take it the wrong way and too far. I also feel that because of her alcoholism she frequently puts herself in an environment that has a much higher probability for this kind of thing to happen. It is consistently her choice to stay out with a bunch of strange guys and get drunk. This instance is exactly one of my codie brain imagined scenarios that results from her drinking too much.
Finally – she has refused to report the guy to her company HR group which I find nuts for lots of reasons. One of my irrational thoughts is that she doesn’t want to expose the situation because there were other office people there that might say that she was behaving inappropriately also. (again – there is never a time with a man can harass a woman…).
So – I am putting this out there for thoughts. I am trying to maintain a die hard support position but it is rough considering I believe it is the result of her choices. AND am I enabling her by being supportive?
Sincerely,
PS
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,754
If it were my x I would have told him the truth, but from a distance.
Never face to face.
I realize now that was pretty dangerous too. So I never was around him when he drank , well, when I didn't know he had drank.
God it's all so sick.
All I know , is that supporting something you don't want to is exhausting.
And it's also very hard on your psyche.
It's not healthy at all.
Never face to face.
I realize now that was pretty dangerous too. So I never was around him when he drank , well, when I didn't know he had drank.
God it's all so sick.
All I know , is that supporting something you don't want to is exhausting.
And it's also very hard on your psyche.
It's not healthy at all.
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Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,218
I can understand why you are fed up and not enthusiastic about giving a hoot. This is, I'm sure, just one thing on a list of inappropriate behavior you put up with. It's confusing because you can't be sure what her behavior was prior to that, magnified by the fact that she doesn't want to report it. It's a shame that we get so used to seeing someone behave in such ways that we can't just give them the benefit of the doubt.
I wish I had some solid advice. Just wanted to offer some empathy.
I wish I had some solid advice. Just wanted to offer some empathy.
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Melbourne Australia.
Posts: 3,748
Not easy! I agree men should not man handle women irrespective of perceived flirting.
Of course in a drinking environment such may be seen as acceptable by a few.
She may not think the event warrants getting the guy perhaps sacked.
If her dress attire and flirting is really over the top and you say nothing you are probably enabling IMO .
Of course in a drinking environment such may be seen as acceptable by a few.
She may not think the event warrants getting the guy perhaps sacked.
If her dress attire and flirting is really over the top and you say nothing you are probably enabling IMO .
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 73
JMO. I have to say (and you did ask for opinions) that she is putting herself in these situations. No- there is no time or place for a man to get out of control either. But we know people do bad things. And if we purposely put ourselves in a situation knowing that something unfavorable is almost sure to happen, then we shouldn't complain when it does. I can understand your lack of support too. Sometimes a person can push us so far our compassion for them is gone. I too am in this situation with compassion for my hubby. I believe I'd back away and let her go. This is only my opinion and what I would do.
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: San Mateo, Ca
Posts: 52
This is a tough one, and I've had to deal with a version of this with my AGF.
Since you aren't an eyeball witness to what went down, and your only source is hearsay from your AW, you don't have enough information to make a good judgment as to the facts - and since that's the key to the whole situation, it's pointless to worry about her reaction wrt the incident.
Supporting someone when you know the facts firsthand is one thing but supporting someone without that knowledge (with or without the complication of addiction) is a very sketchy thing.
This (imo) is one of those situations where the person involved (your AW) should be left to their own devices - she wants to report the incident? have at it, doesn't want to report it? same deal.
Since you aren't an eyeball witness to what went down, and your only source is hearsay from your AW, you don't have enough information to make a good judgment as to the facts - and since that's the key to the whole situation, it's pointless to worry about her reaction wrt the incident.
Supporting someone when you know the facts firsthand is one thing but supporting someone without that knowledge (with or without the complication of addiction) is a very sketchy thing.
This (imo) is one of those situations where the person involved (your AW) should be left to their own devices - she wants to report the incident? have at it, doesn't want to report it? same deal.
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 588
An awful lot of unwanted sexual attention (of every sort) goes unreported (whether to HR or police) because the complainant does not want to go through the scrutiny making a complaint brings. The "you must have done something to bring it on" attitude is still loud and clear despite efforts to provide a safe environment for reporting.
Lots of intelligent, non-flirty, otherwise confident, capable women do not report it because of the hassle it would bring them. They would become a victim twice, the incident and the investigation.
Add in a fuzzy memory if she was drinking, and I am not surprised she wouldn't want to report it.
Regardless of flirting, clear consent by someone capable of making that consent is still required. Who doesn't know this by now?
Sorry, bit of a rant, a huge pet peeve of mine.
Lots of intelligent, non-flirty, otherwise confident, capable women do not report it because of the hassle it would bring them. They would become a victim twice, the incident and the investigation.
Add in a fuzzy memory if she was drinking, and I am not surprised she wouldn't want to report it.
Regardless of flirting, clear consent by someone capable of making that consent is still required. Who doesn't know this by now?
Sorry, bit of a rant, a huge pet peeve of mine.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: USA
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BigBass and Wellnow had some pretty solid advice.
I'd add that, unless I were violently assaulted in a way that warranted criminal prosecution with real prison time, I would be extremely unlikely to report a co-worker to HR for sexual harassment if I were at a new company. When you're new at a company, the usual victim-blaming issues (women are frequently blamed by men and by other women for sexual assault) are compounded by the fact that you're the new kid and no-one knows you so you lack credibility. I'd imagine that your wife has some idea of how tricky it would be to report someone when she was so new.
I also think one of the comments above gave an excellent illustration of the more vitriolic type of reaction someone reporting assault can unfortunately expect. Who wants to deal with that stuff when fresh on the job?
All of which is to say, who knows what really went on, but there are so many explanations for her choice that I wouldn't assume anything.
I'd add that, unless I were violently assaulted in a way that warranted criminal prosecution with real prison time, I would be extremely unlikely to report a co-worker to HR for sexual harassment if I were at a new company. When you're new at a company, the usual victim-blaming issues (women are frequently blamed by men and by other women for sexual assault) are compounded by the fact that you're the new kid and no-one knows you so you lack credibility. I'd imagine that your wife has some idea of how tricky it would be to report someone when she was so new.
I also think one of the comments above gave an excellent illustration of the more vitriolic type of reaction someone reporting assault can unfortunately expect. Who wants to deal with that stuff when fresh on the job?
All of which is to say, who knows what really went on, but there are so many explanations for her choice that I wouldn't assume anything.
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Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,218
Originally Posted by AllieB 
BigBass and Wellnow had some pretty solid advice.
I'd add that, unless I were violently assaulted in a way that warranted criminal prosecution with real prison time, I would be extremely unlikely to report a co-worker to HR for sexual harassment if I were at a new company. When you're new at a company, the usual victim-blaming issues (women are frequently blamed by men and by other women for sexual assault) are compounded by the fact that you're the new kid and no-one knows you so you lack credibility. I'd imagine that your wife has some idea of how tricky it would be to report someone when she was so new.
I also think one of the comments above gave an excellent illustration of the more vitriolic type of reaction someone reporting assault can unfortunately expect. Who wants to deal with that stuff when fresh on the job?
All of which is to say, who knows what really went on, but there are so many explanations for her choice that I wouldn't assume anything.
I'd add that, unless I were violently assaulted in a way that warranted criminal prosecution with real prison time, I would be extremely unlikely to report a co-worker to HR for sexual harassment if I were at a new company. When you're new at a company, the usual victim-blaming issues (women are frequently blamed by men and by other women for sexual assault) are compounded by the fact that you're the new kid and no-one knows you so you lack credibility. I'd imagine that your wife has some idea of how tricky it would be to report someone when she was so new.
I also think one of the comments above gave an excellent illustration of the more vitriolic type of reaction someone reporting assault can unfortunately expect. Who wants to deal with that stuff when fresh on the job?
All of which is to say, who knows what really went on, but there are so many explanations for her choice that I wouldn't assume anything.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I don't CARE how drunk she was, no excuse for the guy. Victim-blaming IS rampant, and something I have to deal with professionally every day. Many women are assaulted while intoxicated, and it doesn't make them any less victims of inappropriate, if not criminal, conduct.
To pirate, it doesn't sound as if she is asking you to DO anything, so I don't see any need to do anything. You can say you're sorry it happened to her. You can tell her you can't imagine how it must have felt (you can't).
I, too, understand her not wanting to rock the boat with a brand new job. However, employment law protects victims from any form of retaliation. Still, her decision whether she wants to go through the ordeal that it undoubtedly would be.
Thankfully she wasn't injured further. You might suggest that she talk with someone in her Employee Assistance Program. I believe all communications to them are considered confidential. A good experience there might also make her feel comfortable about talking to someone there about her drinking, at some point.
That's about all you can do, I think, unless she asks for something specific from you. And no, I don't think that is enabling.
To pirate, it doesn't sound as if she is asking you to DO anything, so I don't see any need to do anything. You can say you're sorry it happened to her. You can tell her you can't imagine how it must have felt (you can't).
I, too, understand her not wanting to rock the boat with a brand new job. However, employment law protects victims from any form of retaliation. Still, her decision whether she wants to go through the ordeal that it undoubtedly would be.
Thankfully she wasn't injured further. You might suggest that she talk with someone in her Employee Assistance Program. I believe all communications to them are considered confidential. A good experience there might also make her feel comfortable about talking to someone there about her drinking, at some point.
That's about all you can do, I think, unless she asks for something specific from you. And no, I don't think that is enabling.
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,754
Originally Posted by LexieCat
I don't CARE how drunk she was, no excuse for the guy. Victim-blaming IS rampant, and something I have to deal with professionally every day. Many women are assaulted while intoxicated, and it doesn't make them any less victims of inappropriate, if not criminal, conduct.
To pirate, it doesn't sound as if she is asking you to DO anything, so I don't see any need to do anything. You can say you're sorry it happened to her. You can tell her you can't imagine how it must have felt (you can't).
I, too, understand her not wanting to rock the boat with a brand new job. However, employment law protects victims from any form of retaliation. Still, her decision whether she wants to go through the ordeal that it undoubtedly would be.
Thankfully she wasn't injured further. You might suggest that she talk with someone in her Employee Assistance Program. I believe all communications to them are considered confidential. A good experience there might also make her feel comfortable about talking to someone there about her drinking, at some point.
That's about all you can do, I think, unless she asks for something specific from you. And no, I don't think that is enabling.
To pirate, it doesn't sound as if she is asking you to DO anything, so I don't see any need to do anything. You can say you're sorry it happened to her. You can tell her you can't imagine how it must have felt (you can't).
I, too, understand her not wanting to rock the boat with a brand new job. However, employment law protects victims from any form of retaliation. Still, her decision whether she wants to go through the ordeal that it undoubtedly would be.
Thankfully she wasn't injured further. You might suggest that she talk with someone in her Employee Assistance Program. I believe all communications to them are considered confidential. A good experience there might also make her feel comfortable about talking to someone there about her drinking, at some point.
That's about all you can do, I think, unless she asks for something specific from you. And no, I don't think that is enabling.
She is responsible for her stuff, but he is asking about his stuff. It's confusing for us , when we are in a relationship with an active A.
I understand his concerns. This is about trust. Not abuse.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
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possibly she let things happen and is now attempting to rewrite history a bit to make it sound as if she was a victim. if she found such affront to "his" advances, she should have no problem reporting the activity to HR....there were after all a number of witnesses....................
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
No, I didn't miss what he was feeling. A person can't help what they feel, but they can help how they act. And even if she was drunk and "flirty" that isn't license for someone to take advantage of the situation. He ASKED whether it would be enabling to be supportive. So my understanding is that he is willing to make the effort to be supportive regardless of his feelings, if it isn't enabling.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 48
I was new at a company, working away at a mine site. I had only been there for a couple of months when the guys started harassing me. I told my colleague and he said I should stop drinking with the guys because it was giving them the wrong impression. So I did.
Later, I was in a situation where I was the only girl on the bus full of men after flying home from my R&R. They were all drunk and became sexually aggressive, grabbing me, my breasts, saying inappropriate things. I DID report it, I was taken off site and told that I hadn't handled myself well so there would be no real repercussions - because i had been drinking also and up until that point, seemed to be having a good time. I lost my confidence and ended up quitting my job.
I'm saying this so you realize how hard it is for a woman to report something that offends them. We are often seen as trouble makers and are blamed. Yes, she was drunk - but man handling and offensive behavior is never ok.
Still, I have had the same conversation with my AM about her behavior and I know for a fact she says inappropriate things and gets drunk with the boys. If something happened, I would still feel bad for her, but I wouldn't be altogether surprised. They have already started placing bets as to when she will cheat on my father with one of the guys.
I choose to be supportive of her but I have also to her how I feel about her behavior.
I think you can be supportive without enabling her.
Later, I was in a situation where I was the only girl on the bus full of men after flying home from my R&R. They were all drunk and became sexually aggressive, grabbing me, my breasts, saying inappropriate things. I DID report it, I was taken off site and told that I hadn't handled myself well so there would be no real repercussions - because i had been drinking also and up until that point, seemed to be having a good time. I lost my confidence and ended up quitting my job.
I'm saying this so you realize how hard it is for a woman to report something that offends them. We are often seen as trouble makers and are blamed. Yes, she was drunk - but man handling and offensive behavior is never ok.
Still, I have had the same conversation with my AM about her behavior and I know for a fact she says inappropriate things and gets drunk with the boys. If something happened, I would still feel bad for her, but I wouldn't be altogether surprised. They have already started placing bets as to when she will cheat on my father with one of the guys.
I choose to be supportive of her but I have also to her how I feel about her behavior.
I think you can be supportive without enabling her.
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,754
Originally Posted by Carlotta
I don t care how drunk and "easy" a woman appears to be or is, this is not acceptable and that man should be disciplined. The accused is a great movie on that topic.
She said she was not going to pursue it.
He can't make her.
I know if I had been handled in that way, he would be reported pronto.
That is the normal response.
He has to support just letting it slide.
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 588
" I know if I had been handled in that way, he would be reported pronto. That is the normal response."
Actually, statistics do not support you on this one.
My response was to indicate to him that there nothing to be inferred by her not wanting to report it.
A personal story: My AH and I had argued re the Anita Hill hearings. He said if she was really harassed back then she would have reported it at the time so he didn't believe her. My argument was "no, it goes unreported. it's a huge pain to report it. and it is more than likely you will be blamed somehow." That was 20 years ago and not enough has changed.
A month later we moved to a new home and were out front meeting our new neighbours. Our little girl (4 years old) came up and whispered to her Dad that the little boy next door, whose parents we were just meeting, was trying to pull down her shorts. His response: "Are you sure? Maybe he's just playing? Maybe he's just tickling you?" He was more worried about his new neighbours' feelings than his little girl's complaint. My response to him was "considering how you just reacted right here and now, how likely do you think your own daughter will be to report unwanted advances in the future?"
Actually, statistics do not support you on this one.
My response was to indicate to him that there nothing to be inferred by her not wanting to report it.
A personal story: My AH and I had argued re the Anita Hill hearings. He said if she was really harassed back then she would have reported it at the time so he didn't believe her. My argument was "no, it goes unreported. it's a huge pain to report it. and it is more than likely you will be blamed somehow." That was 20 years ago and not enough has changed.
A month later we moved to a new home and were out front meeting our new neighbours. Our little girl (4 years old) came up and whispered to her Dad that the little boy next door, whose parents we were just meeting, was trying to pull down her shorts. His response: "Are you sure? Maybe he's just playing? Maybe he's just tickling you?" He was more worried about his new neighbours' feelings than his little girl's complaint. My response to him was "considering how you just reacted right here and now, how likely do you think your own daughter will be to report unwanted advances in the future?"
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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I have to agree with Anvil, perhaps, just maybe, she is rewriting this script.
If she truly was "man-handled" I believe she would be handling this differently.
XA used to distort the truth, or make up something just to fill in the BLACKOUT space of the previous night , in order to make himself squeaky clean. The bottom line, he was an active addict, and a BIG FAT LIAR.............
Does she frequently blackout?
If she truly was "man-handled" I believe she would be handling this differently.
XA used to distort the truth, or make up something just to fill in the BLACKOUT space of the previous night , in order to make himself squeaky clean. The bottom line, he was an active addict, and a BIG FAT LIAR.............
Does she frequently blackout?
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