? - Should An Addict Be Held Accountable for Their Behavior and Actions
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? - Should An Addict Be Held Accountable for Their Behavior and Actions
Okay, so, I have an opinion about this matter and I would like to get some feedback from some of the veterans and folks who are more advanced in their recovery than I am.
I hear my AH's mother say that she feels sorry for him a lot, and she is always willing to give him money, food, rides, etc. I get that she's enabling him, and I get that she's co-dependent, but it seems to me like she justifies her generosity and care taking with the idea that my AH isn't responsible for his actions. Can anyone chime in with an opinion or some feedback about this, please?
I hear my AH's mother say that she feels sorry for him a lot, and she is always willing to give him money, food, rides, etc. I get that she's enabling him, and I get that she's co-dependent, but it seems to me like she justifies her generosity and care taking with the idea that my AH isn't responsible for his actions. Can anyone chime in with an opinion or some feedback about this, please?
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,754
Although it's very hard to see, when you see a loved on screwing up, caring does not include providing a soft landing for an A.
Caring is letting them fend for themselve until they hit bottom.
It's very difficult to accept, it's hard for all of us.
It is up to her to take on her own recovery, you can not prevent someone else from enabling, you only have control of your own actions.
Caring is letting them fend for themselve until they hit bottom.
It's very difficult to accept, it's hard for all of us.
It is up to her to take on her own recovery, you can not prevent someone else from enabling, you only have control of your own actions.
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 577
Good morning yoga girl. I used to "help" my son with giftcards for gas and groceries and things. Goodness knows I wouldn't want to send him cash!! (I'm now certain he just traded those gift cards for cents on the dollar). I have become very strong in my stance now. I will not provide my son with anything he is capable of providing for himself...regardless of his actions or behaviors. I will however pay the co-pay on treatment if he ever asks for it. If/when he does...it will be the best $120 I've ever spent. Not sure if this helps ... just my opinions.
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,618
oh man his is a GREAT post.
I believe we should be held accountable for our actions. All of us.
My enablers/codies drive me crazy when I am in recovery. They treat me like I am not capable of taking care of myself, they shadow over me and nag me. I am partially at fault though because I manipulate them to think that its true.
The emotional outbursts Im not so sure about though... we deffinately have some chemical malfunctions.
I believe we should be held accountable for our actions. All of us.
My enablers/codies drive me crazy when I am in recovery. They treat me like I am not capable of taking care of myself, they shadow over me and nag me. I am partially at fault though because I manipulate them to think that its true.
The emotional outbursts Im not so sure about though... we deffinately have some chemical malfunctions.
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,295
Absolutely held accountable. If not them, then whom? Surely not somebody else!
Rides for going to work: Yes. Working is a good thing.
Rides for going to who knows what not important: No. Why? Well why doesn't he have his own transportation? Consequences for his own actions, or lack thereof.
Money? That would include trust as to what for. So no money.
Food for grandkids? Yes. Money to buy food? NO, as stated above this money could be used for something not on the food list.
Tough Love: yes
Soft easy lovey get away with it enabling: NO.
Rides for going to work: Yes. Working is a good thing.
Rides for going to who knows what not important: No. Why? Well why doesn't he have his own transportation? Consequences for his own actions, or lack thereof.
Money? That would include trust as to what for. So no money.
Food for grandkids? Yes. Money to buy food? NO, as stated above this money could be used for something not on the food list.
Tough Love: yes
Soft easy lovey get away with it enabling: NO.
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
As a mama codependent who enabled for too many years....I think that yes, the addict and us too should be held accountable for our actions.
My son should be accountable for breaking the law, for stealing and lying and doing all the sad things addicts do. His addiction may have put him out of control but in the end it is he who is accountable for the damage he does.
As a codie mama, I have been and still am accountable for my part in my unhapiness. I enabled, I stayed when I should have backed wayyyy off, and even if my intentions were good because I love my son....I own my behaviour and my actions. I have made my own peace with all that and did a 9th step making amends to my son a long time ago, which helped me grow in my recovery. I couldn't have done that if I had not felt accountable for my own part in all of this mess.
Short version of all this....I vote yes.
Hugs
My son should be accountable for breaking the law, for stealing and lying and doing all the sad things addicts do. His addiction may have put him out of control but in the end it is he who is accountable for the damage he does.
As a codie mama, I have been and still am accountable for my part in my unhapiness. I enabled, I stayed when I should have backed wayyyy off, and even if my intentions were good because I love my son....I own my behaviour and my actions. I have made my own peace with all that and did a 9th step making amends to my son a long time ago, which helped me grow in my recovery. I couldn't have done that if I had not felt accountable for my own part in all of this mess.
Short version of all this....I vote yes.
Hugs
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Jungle
Posts: 5,435
There are two parts to your question that needs to be addressed:
1. Should the addict be held accountable for their behavior.....
Absolutely.....with boundaries by their loved ones. There is a huge difference between boundaries and punishment as it pertains to loved ones. They should be allowed to feel the consequences of their actions......if they steal.....they get turned in. If they are abusive, they get turned out.
2. You ask the question about the mother's enabling.......and that hits pretty close to home. lol Here's my take on that.
It is not anyone else's responsibility to make a mother's heart hurt worse than it already does. Having an addicted adult (or juvenile) child is.....well......really not pleasant (yes.....call me Mrs. Understatement instead of Kindeyes today). We function instinctively as any mother of almost any species would....initially. We don't understand the disease of addiction because the concept is foreign to us and we exist in denial for a long time......just like the addict. Consequences happen to us and we either die from the sheer physical, emotional, psychological and spiritual trauma of it......or we seek recovery.......just like the addict. We have to hit a low point.....just like an addict.
And when we know better, we do better. Believe me.......a parent is going to be the last hold on to the spiral of their child's addiction.......picture a three year old with a needle in their arm shooting up heroin......that's what we see in our mind's eye. Now try to accept that and "let it go".
Believe me.....I enabled my son for a long time......I tried to love his addiction away.....I tried to enable his addiction away......and I learned some very tough (and expensive) lessons. Just like the addict, we do get our share of consequences. But trying to talk to us early on in the game is no different than trying to talk to an addict. And judging another on the amount of time it takes them to "get it"? Just doesn't accomplish anything.
Get between an addict and their DOC and you become the enemy.
Get between a codependent (parent!!) and their DOC (their child) and you become the enemy.
I tread very lightly with the new parents who come into our meetings......I've been there and it's deer in the headlights--they don't know what hit them. I know that with time and patience (and getting burned by the disease of addiction a number of times).....they'll get it. Trying to force them so see something or judging them for being so stupid that they can't see? Counterproductive.
Boundaries for the codependent (or anybody for that matter) is extremely important.......say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean.
gentle hugs
ke
1. Should the addict be held accountable for their behavior.....
Absolutely.....with boundaries by their loved ones. There is a huge difference between boundaries and punishment as it pertains to loved ones. They should be allowed to feel the consequences of their actions......if they steal.....they get turned in. If they are abusive, they get turned out.
2. You ask the question about the mother's enabling.......and that hits pretty close to home. lol Here's my take on that.
It is not anyone else's responsibility to make a mother's heart hurt worse than it already does. Having an addicted adult (or juvenile) child is.....well......really not pleasant (yes.....call me Mrs. Understatement instead of Kindeyes today). We function instinctively as any mother of almost any species would....initially. We don't understand the disease of addiction because the concept is foreign to us and we exist in denial for a long time......just like the addict. Consequences happen to us and we either die from the sheer physical, emotional, psychological and spiritual trauma of it......or we seek recovery.......just like the addict. We have to hit a low point.....just like an addict.
And when we know better, we do better. Believe me.......a parent is going to be the last hold on to the spiral of their child's addiction.......picture a three year old with a needle in their arm shooting up heroin......that's what we see in our mind's eye. Now try to accept that and "let it go".
Believe me.....I enabled my son for a long time......I tried to love his addiction away.....I tried to enable his addiction away......and I learned some very tough (and expensive) lessons. Just like the addict, we do get our share of consequences. But trying to talk to us early on in the game is no different than trying to talk to an addict. And judging another on the amount of time it takes them to "get it"? Just doesn't accomplish anything.
Get between an addict and their DOC and you become the enemy.
Get between a codependent (parent!!) and their DOC (their child) and you become the enemy.
I tread very lightly with the new parents who come into our meetings......I've been there and it's deer in the headlights--they don't know what hit them. I know that with time and patience (and getting burned by the disease of addiction a number of times).....they'll get it. Trying to force them so see something or judging them for being so stupid that they can't see? Counterproductive.
Boundaries for the codependent (or anybody for that matter) is extremely important.......say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean.
gentle hugs
ke
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
From Cynical One's Blog
Rate this Entry
Addiction As Disease Does Not Equal "Get Out of Jail Free”
Posted 06-06-2013 at 01:11 AM by cynical one
Addiction As Disease Does Not Equal "Get Out of Jail Free”
By Peggy L. Ferguson, Ph.D.
Sometimes family members have a hard time with the idea that addiction is a disease. When this is the case, it often has to do with the issue of responsibility. Sometimes family members believe that "disease" is equated with a "get out of jail free card" or not being held responsible. This is not the case.
An addict has responsibility for choosing recovery over choosing to stay in the illness. They have responsibility to do whatever is necessary to maintain sobriety after they have interrupted the addiction cycle by quitting drinking, using, or engaging in addictive behaviors like gambling addiction or sexual addiction. They also have responsibility for the inappropriate and devastating behavior that they engaged in during the active addiction.
One of the overarching tasks and goals of early recovery is to take responsibility for that recovery and for the devastation caused by the addiction. This is important in order to gain insight distorted by denial and other defense mechanisms, to gain a new direction in life, and in developing the living skills that are needed to recover.
Family members are naturally "irked" by the idea that the addict gets off the hook for their behavior because they have an illness. The truth is that in recovery, sometimes for the first time, they ARE being held responsible. They have to be responsible for their behavior in order to recover. The same is true for family members. There is often a great deal of maladaptive behavior involved in the family dynamics of addiction and each family member must take responsibility for their own feelings, decisions, and behavior.
Spouses and parents often try to solve the problem of the addict's addiction for a very long time before the addiction is correctly identified. They often end up enabling the addict by their very problem solving attempts. These family members usually tolerate intolerable behavior and situations over a long period of time, lose themselves in the process, and yet depend on the addict to step up and make it all alright.
Even sober or abstinent, the addict cannot make it all alright. The family member has often invested all their time, energy, and other resources in the development, nurturance, or reclamation of the addict, and has neglected themselves in the process.
In reality, family members are responsible for their own choices, decisions, and behavior in the addiction process--just like the addict.
One of the things that happens in the family dynamics of addiction is the circular blaming by all involved. The addict often blames the family members for the problems that occur in the family, in their lives, and the family member often believes them. These relatives typically feel compelled to engage in inappropriate caretaking or coercion of the addict, trying to get them to straighten up. There is a direct parallel between the compulsion to fix the addict and the addict's compulsion to "use" the mood altering chemical. The family member often gets to the point where they blame the addict for their own choices, saying "I had to do ____ because he did _______".
The reality is that both had choices and responsibility for those choices each step of the way. Addiction negatively affects everyone in the family. No one escapes unscathed.
The good news is that each person involved in the scenario can recover, regardless of whether the other does. This, again, is based on choices and responsibility for one's own choices.
There is no doubt that the inappropriate behavior of the addict hurts the family members. The dishonesty, the inability to be emotionally present, or the inability to engage in adult responsibilities with emotional maturity is often part and parcel of addictions. Family members are justifiably angry about the addict's behavior. If they have much insight into addiction, they are appropriately concerned about the continuation of that behavior.
Recovery is a process that occurs over a long period of time. When the addict enters recovery by stopping the consumption of alcohol or other drugs, things can begin to get better. However, abstinence is only the very, very, very beginning of recovery.
There is much work to be done.
Affected relatives also need their own recovery program. Family members do not recover by being a non-involved bystander or by continuing to over-invest in the addict's vs. their own recovery. Any person's recovery is contingent upon taking responsibility for that recovery. Relationships can also recover as each person works on their own issues.
The non-addicted spouse can recover regardless of whether the addict ever gets clean and sober. By working on their own issues and working a program of recovery, they can find peace and serenity that is not dependent on what the addict is doing or not doing.
Ultimately spouses get to choose whether or not they are willing to remain in a relationship with uncertain recovery outcomes. Relapse is a common symptom of all addictions and all chronic illnesses. Sometimes spouses decide that they "have had enough" and choose to get out. In some cases that action represents responsibility for self-care.
Rate this Entry
Addiction As Disease Does Not Equal "Get Out of Jail Free”
Posted 06-06-2013 at 01:11 AM by cynical one
Addiction As Disease Does Not Equal "Get Out of Jail Free”
By Peggy L. Ferguson, Ph.D.
Sometimes family members have a hard time with the idea that addiction is a disease. When this is the case, it often has to do with the issue of responsibility. Sometimes family members believe that "disease" is equated with a "get out of jail free card" or not being held responsible. This is not the case.
An addict has responsibility for choosing recovery over choosing to stay in the illness. They have responsibility to do whatever is necessary to maintain sobriety after they have interrupted the addiction cycle by quitting drinking, using, or engaging in addictive behaviors like gambling addiction or sexual addiction. They also have responsibility for the inappropriate and devastating behavior that they engaged in during the active addiction.
One of the overarching tasks and goals of early recovery is to take responsibility for that recovery and for the devastation caused by the addiction. This is important in order to gain insight distorted by denial and other defense mechanisms, to gain a new direction in life, and in developing the living skills that are needed to recover.
Family members are naturally "irked" by the idea that the addict gets off the hook for their behavior because they have an illness. The truth is that in recovery, sometimes for the first time, they ARE being held responsible. They have to be responsible for their behavior in order to recover. The same is true for family members. There is often a great deal of maladaptive behavior involved in the family dynamics of addiction and each family member must take responsibility for their own feelings, decisions, and behavior.
Spouses and parents often try to solve the problem of the addict's addiction for a very long time before the addiction is correctly identified. They often end up enabling the addict by their very problem solving attempts. These family members usually tolerate intolerable behavior and situations over a long period of time, lose themselves in the process, and yet depend on the addict to step up and make it all alright.
Even sober or abstinent, the addict cannot make it all alright. The family member has often invested all their time, energy, and other resources in the development, nurturance, or reclamation of the addict, and has neglected themselves in the process.
In reality, family members are responsible for their own choices, decisions, and behavior in the addiction process--just like the addict.
One of the things that happens in the family dynamics of addiction is the circular blaming by all involved. The addict often blames the family members for the problems that occur in the family, in their lives, and the family member often believes them. These relatives typically feel compelled to engage in inappropriate caretaking or coercion of the addict, trying to get them to straighten up. There is a direct parallel between the compulsion to fix the addict and the addict's compulsion to "use" the mood altering chemical. The family member often gets to the point where they blame the addict for their own choices, saying "I had to do ____ because he did _______".
The reality is that both had choices and responsibility for those choices each step of the way. Addiction negatively affects everyone in the family. No one escapes unscathed.
The good news is that each person involved in the scenario can recover, regardless of whether the other does. This, again, is based on choices and responsibility for one's own choices.
There is no doubt that the inappropriate behavior of the addict hurts the family members. The dishonesty, the inability to be emotionally present, or the inability to engage in adult responsibilities with emotional maturity is often part and parcel of addictions. Family members are justifiably angry about the addict's behavior. If they have much insight into addiction, they are appropriately concerned about the continuation of that behavior.
Recovery is a process that occurs over a long period of time. When the addict enters recovery by stopping the consumption of alcohol or other drugs, things can begin to get better. However, abstinence is only the very, very, very beginning of recovery.
There is much work to be done.
Affected relatives also need their own recovery program. Family members do not recover by being a non-involved bystander or by continuing to over-invest in the addict's vs. their own recovery. Any person's recovery is contingent upon taking responsibility for that recovery. Relationships can also recover as each person works on their own issues.
The non-addicted spouse can recover regardless of whether the addict ever gets clean and sober. By working on their own issues and working a program of recovery, they can find peace and serenity that is not dependent on what the addict is doing or not doing.
Ultimately spouses get to choose whether or not they are willing to remain in a relationship with uncertain recovery outcomes. Relapse is a common symptom of all addictions and all chronic illnesses. Sometimes spouses decide that they "have had enough" and choose to get out. In some cases that action represents responsibility for self-care.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
Absolutely they need to be held accountable.
Enabling is so hard for those close to the addict/alcoholic to understand, love seems to get in the way and cloud better judgments.
Often codependents don’t even realize they are doing more harm then good for their loved ones.
Enabling is so hard for those close to the addict/alcoholic to understand, love seems to get in the way and cloud better judgments.
Often codependents don’t even realize they are doing more harm then good for their loved ones.
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 93
Everyone is doing what they want to given their plot in life and everyone is paying for what they are getting. It is not my place to judge or hold someone accountable. It is also my right to stand up for myself if someone makes a transgression against me. Up to this point in my life I can say I have got what I deserved. What I gave was taken, what I took was given. My belief in the first step tells me I can only to take responsibility for myself and my life...so I do my best to live mine and let other people live theirs.
Maybe its the language I am getting caught up on, but "holding someone (who is not me) accountable for something I didn't do" seems like a breach in jurisdiction. Standing up for myself, on the other hand, seems totally inline with recovery and healthy behavior.
In terms of the specific question it is my belief that addicts get what they deserve at some point in their lives. Many die too young after living what most would consider a horrible type of existence. People usually don't die the first time they get high, they die because their body gets sabotaged after years of abuse. Other addicts find their way to sobriety. From what I have seen with the addict(s) in my life, recovery is an incredibly hard process to start and even harder to maintain (at least at first). I am a co-addict but my mind would torture the life out of me, if I had to look back on years on ruining things for me and other people. It seems like a big part of recovery is having to come to terms with your destructive past because thats the only way to move forward. I can only imagine that (for most people) coming to terms with a very destructive past is incredibly humbling and painful because you are holding yourself accountable for a lot of stuff at one time.
Maybe its the language I am getting caught up on, but "holding someone (who is not me) accountable for something I didn't do" seems like a breach in jurisdiction. Standing up for myself, on the other hand, seems totally inline with recovery and healthy behavior.
In terms of the specific question it is my belief that addicts get what they deserve at some point in their lives. Many die too young after living what most would consider a horrible type of existence. People usually don't die the first time they get high, they die because their body gets sabotaged after years of abuse. Other addicts find their way to sobriety. From what I have seen with the addict(s) in my life, recovery is an incredibly hard process to start and even harder to maintain (at least at first). I am a co-addict but my mind would torture the life out of me, if I had to look back on years on ruining things for me and other people. It seems like a big part of recovery is having to come to terms with your destructive past because thats the only way to move forward. I can only imagine that (for most people) coming to terms with a very destructive past is incredibly humbling and painful because you are holding yourself accountable for a lot of stuff at one time.
Restoring myself to sanity
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,018
Absolutely!!! For five years I held myself accountable for my exah's drugs use, cleaning up his mess, bailing him out of jail, paying his bills etc.. This just helped my ex continue using and abusing.. When I started holding myself accountable for my enabling and kicked him to the curb life got a whole lot easier for me and harder for him because he just found someone else to be accountable for his mess...
When you rob a bank, your held accountable.. When you abuse drugs and lie and steal from your family you need to be held accountable... But instead of worrying about the addict and his accountability.. What is your accountability to yourself and your recovery???????
When you rob a bank, your held accountable.. When you abuse drugs and lie and steal from your family you need to be held accountable... But instead of worrying about the addict and his accountability.. What is your accountability to yourself and your recovery???????
Curmudgeon, Electrical Engineer, Guitar God Wannabe
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Originally Posted by Yogagurl 
Okay, so, I have an opinion about this matter and I would like to get some feedback from some of the veterans and folks who are more advanced in their recovery than I am.
I hear my AH's mother say that she feels sorry for him a lot, and she is always willing to give him money, food, rides, etc. I get that she's enabling him, and I get that she's co-dependent, but it seems to me like she justifies her generosity and care taking with the idea that my AH isn't responsible for his actions. Can anyone chime in with an opinion or some feedback about this, please?
I hear my AH's mother say that she feels sorry for him a lot, and she is always willing to give him money, food, rides, etc. I get that she's enabling him, and I get that she's co-dependent, but it seems to me like she justifies her generosity and care taking with the idea that my AH isn't responsible for his actions. Can anyone chime in with an opinion or some feedback about this, please?
Yes, sometimes we make poor decisions under trying circumstances when we may be vulnerable. But that explains the decision, not excuses it.
All your mother-in-law is doing is delaying your AH's inevitable crash and burn. It's not a question of if it will happen, but when.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 261
ALL -
Thank you SO much for all of your responses! This has been a very thought provoking thread and I'm so grateful that I asked! I believe that I am still with my AH because I have been excusing his behavior as a consequence of his addiction. In my mind, I have tolerated the most unfathomable actions, words, and lack of self-respect because I have followed up my reaction to these things with the thought, "Oh, but he doesn't mean to do it. It's the addiction and I feel so sorry that he has to go through with this. I understand why he did/said those things. Surely, I need to be compassionate and let this go, etc, etc, ad nausea-um." I feel, after reading the VALUABLE information and opinions that have been posted thus far, I have a classic codependent thought process.
Additionally, I have noticed, since I have become less passive, that my AH will use my actions against me, as if I'm the bad guy in the situation. He gets angry when I say that I'm staying at a friends house as a result of his continued use. I took a holiday to the lake with a friend on the 4th and stayed gone the entire day; he was livid when I got home. It's interesting to me to see the mentality of the addict. I am to sit back and let him walk all over me, as if I am his own personal door mat, but when I not around, he is hysterically mad.
Thank you SO much for all of your responses! This has been a very thought provoking thread and I'm so grateful that I asked! I believe that I am still with my AH because I have been excusing his behavior as a consequence of his addiction. In my mind, I have tolerated the most unfathomable actions, words, and lack of self-respect because I have followed up my reaction to these things with the thought, "Oh, but he doesn't mean to do it. It's the addiction and I feel so sorry that he has to go through with this. I understand why he did/said those things. Surely, I need to be compassionate and let this go, etc, etc, ad nausea-um." I feel, after reading the VALUABLE information and opinions that have been posted thus far, I have a classic codependent thought process.
Additionally, I have noticed, since I have become less passive, that my AH will use my actions against me, as if I'm the bad guy in the situation. He gets angry when I say that I'm staying at a friends house as a result of his continued use. I took a holiday to the lake with a friend on the 4th and stayed gone the entire day; he was livid when I got home. It's interesting to me to see the mentality of the addict. I am to sit back and let him walk all over me, as if I am his own personal door mat, but when I not around, he is hysterically mad.
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