Is he serious?

Old 07-07-2013, 11:26 AM
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Is he serious?

I had previously offered my son rehab. (21 yo marijuana addict who dropped out of college to smoke mj full time, I evicted him from our home in Feb). I had been successfully detaching from his over the last couple of weeks. (no phone calls, no nagging, pleading or anger).
He came today - he had run out of money and told me he had no longer had a job. He asked me for money. I refused. He flew into a rage for a while and I asked him to leave. Then he calmed down and agreed to go to rehab.

Question: How can I tell he is serious to make a change? T

This will be his second trip to rehab. Even though most of the cost would be covered by insurance, it will still cost me about $4500. I don't want to waste the money if he is not serious. I forced him to go to a 21 day rehab last year which was 12 step based. He was clearly not serious. This one is more of a addiction medicine center but a lot more expensive.
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:47 AM
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Pravchaw, you stood your ground, you are FANTASTIC. I honestly believe you would be wasting $4500.00. The only reason he came home is because he has nowhere to go and he is broke. Even though he pitched his b!tch, he caved and became amiable. I'd make it clear to him he is running out of options and its time to change. Rootin for ya.
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:53 AM
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Question: How can I tell he is serious to make a change?
The short answer. You can't. It's not within our control to know whether or not they were serious. Wanting an answer.......is still holding on tight to an outcome that is not within our control.

I will tell you that my son did a total of four inpatient and outpatient rehabs before he was "serious". Was there a distinct difference in him when it happened? Absolutely. I saw surrender. But even then I couldn't predict an outcome.

But I knew a few things for certain:

1. None of the treatment programs we financed (none of which were covered by insurance) was a waste of my money. He got something out of it.....even if it wasn't what I wanted him to get out of it. He got something.
2. He would make the change when he found his life to be unmanageable and was ready to surrender......my wanting him to surrender wasn't enough and may have been more of a hindrance than a help. Things didn't change until he wanted it for himself more than I wanted it for him.
3. It would happen or it wouldn't.........it was out of my control.
4. After four tries, I was unwilling (and my husband would have vehemently objected) to spend any more money.....we just didn't have it without risking our own financial future.
5. When they really, really want it, they are willing to do anything.......including staying for six months with the Salvation Army ARC in a rigid and humbling environment, working 44 hours per week, attending chapel three times a week, going to meetings and classes nightly, and being paid $8 per week.

If you have the resources and can send him, that's ok but I would gently suggest you let go of the outcome, it is not within your power. Your son and his HP are in control of the outcome.

I do understand how very hard this is......you and your dear son will be in my prayers.

gentle hugs
ke
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Old 07-07-2013, 12:15 PM
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Good for standing your ground!
I'm also not sure if paying for rehab is a good idea.

I'm only 1 week sober and haven't entered treatment yet. I have an outpatient appointment on Thursday.
Its free... there are free programs out there...

Hugs to you
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Old 07-07-2013, 01:33 PM
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Sorry, but you won't know he is serious until he actually starts a program and works the program and his ACTIONS show he is changing.

(((((Kindeyes))))) Gave you the answer. Give him the number of the nearest Salvation Army and allow him to handle it. IF he is accepted, they will send him to the nearest SA that has 'in house' program. KE is correct, it is a very INTENSE program, for 6 to 9 months, but those that stay the course, come out with an excellent set of 'tools' for staying sober and/or clean.

Back when I got sober there were no 'free' in house' rehabs, so I was introduced to AA while I was still in the hospital, recovering from dying in the ER and given some phone numbers for Homes for Alcoholic Women. I found one, they accepted me, and when I left the hospital I went straight there. For the first 2 weeks, my car was parked over to the side and the House Mother had my keys. The rules were simple but quite rigid at first, one 'earned' privileges. One had to attend a minimum of 5 outside AA meetings a week, plus the 3 AA meetings in the house (unless one had a job, one could miss the in house meeting). One had to pay room and board, the first 2 weeks were $50.00 a week and were put on ones books. One also had 1 month to GET A SPONSOR and start USING that sponsor to guide one through the steps of AA.

Then it went to $60.00 a week and one had better be job hunting and find a job to start paying. On top of that we had chores, (they changed each week), house meetings to discuss whatever was bothering us, etc. Now this was 15 women in various stages of recovery from 5 days like myself to 6 months or so, and there were always a 'dispute' or two or three going on, lol It was suggested that one stay at least 90 daysbut longer was good and if one desired, they could then move to one of the one bedroom parents that the House also owned.

AA is always free. I learned in the house in a controlled environment how to start living sober and how to interact with folks without having to be numb. After I left the house I stayed close to the house, still attending those 3 meetings in the house when my job allowed, still helping with 'outside' projects, like a 'yard sale', mini retreats, a style show, etc all to earn money for the house, as Odyssey House (not connected with the chain, they had the name first) was totally funded by donations and what the ladies paid in room and board. It is still in existence 32= years later and is actually 37 years old now. I still send a yearly contribution to them as do many of the 'graduates' from the house.

My point is this, yea I know that I get wordy, rofl that if he is SERIOUS about recovery, then HE will find a rehab and/or a way to acquire the 'tools' that he needs. Give him the phone number of the local Salvation Army and then stand back.

Now how about YOU? Have you tried at least 6 different Alanon meetings to see if you might find one where you feel like you fit a teeny bit, and/or a therapist that specializes in Addiction? It is very hard having a loved one that is an alcoholic/addict and especially if the A is very close to us, such as a spouse or child. It is hard to stand back and not try and 'fix it' (because we can't fix it) but we can 'fix' OURSELVES.

Please keep posting and let us know how your are doing because we do care! And we are walking with you in spirit!

Love and hugs,
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Old 07-07-2013, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by pravchaw View Post
I had previously offered my son rehab. (21 yo marijuana addict who dropped out of college to smoke mj full time, I evicted him from our home in Feb). I had been successfully detaching from his over the last couple of weeks. (no phone calls, no nagging, pleading or anger).
He came today - he had run out of money and told me he had no longer had a job. He asked me for money. I refused. He flew into a rage for a while and I asked him to leave. Then he calmed down and agreed to go to rehab.

Question: How can I tell he is serious to make a change? T

This will be his second trip to rehab. Even though most of the cost would be covered by insurance, it will still cost me about $4500. I don't want to waste the money if he is not serious. I forced him to go to a 21 day rehab last year which was 12 step based. He was clearly not serious. This one is more of a addiction medicine center but a lot more expensive.
My opinion is this: Addiction left untreated is progressive. Right now your son is using marijuana, but who knows if left untreated he may end up progressing to heroin, meth or something so much worse. Worse in the sense he may become unreachable to you in every aspect, and his access to insurance money may disappear, and his life and all that’s in it may continue to erode away. If he has insurance, and is saying yes to rehab in any way shape or form then I would encourage it. Personally I think it is great to look into a rehab that is grounded more addiction medicine. Your son has tried other options, he has been working with a sponsor and going to meetings and it has not been working to get him excited about recovery or in recovery. Nothing changes if nothing changes. Try something different.

If you have been looking into addiction medicine and the concepts behind it, you will know one thing medical professionals say is that “ treatment does not have to be voluntary to be effective”. My husband went into treatment, he wasn’t jumping for joy at the idea, he wasn’t desperate and pleading, but he wasn’t resisting either. He just went along with it to start. But once there the doctors helped him, they got through to him. This weekend in fact, we have been back to his rehab to visit. They have a celebration around the Fourth of July every year. Last year we attended and he was just finishing up his treatment. This year he is 14+ months clean, and shared his story of recovery with everyone. It was just an amazing to come full circle to be on the other side this year. I wish this for your son & your family.
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Old 07-07-2013, 03:30 PM
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I really don't think it is a good idea to make a decision based on FEAR (ie. addiction progressing to heroin), obligation, or guilt.

More will be revealed about he serious he is. Let him show or prove it to you before you put out any money. However, I agree, Salvation Army is free and successful for motivated people who really want it.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:14 PM
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Pravchaw, my RA son who turned 24 today went to an out patient rehab and then to an inpatient rehab but at the time, he was not ready or serious about embracing recovery. He was only out days from the rehab before he picked up again. At that time, I was unaware of the Salvation Army's rehab. Had I been, I would have given him the number. But what my husband and I realized was that he could no longer live with us and we told him as much. We gave him the chance to go to another rehab because insurance was willing to pick up the bulk of it but only for 28 days. We made him aware that even after the 28 days he could not come home and needed to go a sober living environment which this rehab offered. I think he was stunned by us putting boundaries in place which I suppose we never really did to this extent before. After 2 days in the rehab he left and called us to come pick him up at the bus station. The answer was no to coming home and yes for a ride back to the rehab. I had no expectations that anything was going to take hold for him. But he obviously made the decision to try to turn his life around. He has been sober for well over a year. As we celebrated his birthday today, I thanked my higher power for all that he has done. His recovery is one day at a time, as is mine. It's not been easy but I pray we both can stay the course. You and your son will be in my prayers and wish peace for the both of you.
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Old 07-07-2013, 06:19 PM
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My daughter is 18 with profound MJ addiction (you know our story- since it is similar to yours). She's in intense outpatient rehab based on 12 steps- she goes 15 hours a week to classes, plus 3 NA or AA meetings per week on her own. She was required to get a sponsor. She's 30 days clean and seems to be doing really well.

We "forced" her in to rehab by giving her the option of leaving our house and no support from us or rehab. We gave her the number to call and were ready to pack her things and rekey the locks. She called and started a week later. She spent the first two weeks violently manipulating and denying and being angry/hostile/miserable. As part of the program my husband and I were required to do codependency class and family group meetings. I found and went to every Al Anon meeting I could and continue to do so. It helped so that when she'd start with the manipulation (saying how unfair it was that she couldn't keep her job, or go on a family trip, or attend graduation ceremonies because we forced her in to rehab) I could detach and say calmly, "I know it must feel very disappointing to you but you can quit rehab any time you'd like. It's your choice." It changed the dynamic and she started listening. She met other addicts and started finally hearing the "not yet" as "what's going to happen if I don't change"

Will it be the last battle we have with addiction? Will she relapse? Is she really being truthful and honest and clean, or does she sneak a bit? I honestly don't know. But no matter what she's gotten something out of it. She's at least been exposed to the tools and knows what it looks like to be out of control vs. sober.
But most importantly, I've changed. Her consequences are hers. Her life, her body, her future is hers. I don't take it on anymore. I worry and I fret and I struggle but I zip my lips, let go, let her Higher Power have His way, and go to a meeting. I love her beyond all beyonds. She is the daughter of my heart. But this is her battle and while I would move the sun and moon and stars to help her, she has to do it. I'll be here cheering but it's her race, her journey, her demons.
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Old 07-07-2013, 07:45 PM
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Thank you all for your advise. It will take me some time to process it all. I will leave it up to him to take the necessary steps to enroll in rehab. If he is serious he will do it. If not, he can continue his downward spiral. I don't think the bottom is very far now.


In the mean time I will continue to detach and not get emotionally involved. Good night, my friends.
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Old 07-07-2013, 07:52 PM
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You are doing really good work letting go--just want to support you in that. I know it is so hard to not help or NOT do what we said we'd do for our addicted loved ones before we learned what we have learned here on SR & other sources. I love the saying, "More will be revealed." It has really helped me to pause and slow down my automatic reactions.

A busy work week is a good thing. Take care.
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:05 PM
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Some treatment is better than no treatment.

With that being said, to some people $4500 is pocket change and to others it's a lifetime of savings. If you have the money to gift, can you do so without putting conditions on it and can you let go of all resentments if he chooses to leave the program early- forfeiting any deposit or payment?

Did you fully fund his prior rehab stint?
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Old 07-08-2013, 07:09 PM
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Its a substantial amount but I can afford it, if I have some confidence that it may do some good. That is why I want him to take the steps of going to the doctor to get a referral. The previous rehab (3 weeks) was paid by insurance. I paid $2000 for an after care program which was recommended but he dropped out within 2 weeks (relapsed).

He came to our house today to eat and for the internet (he says he is job hunting). I was at work and came back late. My wife says he was almost in tears and first time in months opened up a little to her. He has a lot of anger in him -mostly over little things people have said to him over the years. I have heard that anxiety and depression is anger turned inwards. It could be that he is self medicating to deal with these feelings.
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:27 PM
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Prayers going up for your family tonight....that he is ready to make the call soon. He is lucky to have such great family support.
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:49 AM
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I have been fighting with an over-whelming desire to contact him, and urge him again to get into treatment. (Not a good idea). Now that he is flat broke, this may be limiting his drug use. As soon as he gets some money its off to the races.
He did tell my wife - he is not going back to college. We pretty much knew that but still disappointing. He will be the first person in our family in 3 generation - to drop out of college or not to have a degree.
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by pravchaw View Post
He did tell my wife - he is not going back to college. We pretty much knew that but still disappointing. He will be the first person in our family in 3 generation - to drop out of college or not to have a degree.
Things change. Don't project too much into the future. That only makes the pain worse- and you may be borrowing pain that will not happen. One day at a time.

I am walking this path with you today.
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Old 07-09-2013, 05:58 PM
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Does your son have mental health problems? The way you describe him is a bit of a loner who gets high by himself? That could be a indicater of mental illness which would add to the marijuana addiction. It may help explain it as well.
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Old 07-09-2013, 06:45 PM
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I quit college and my parents were very upset too. At the time, I made great money at my young age because the economy was good, employees had it made and i didnt think i needed a degree. Anyway, my parents backed off and I finally chose to go back. I went back a year later, with a maturer attitude and was a Dean list student.

There is hope.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:27 PM
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It's hard to predict someone else's bottom. I hope this is his, but my step-daughter doesn't seem to have one. We paid for rehabs while she was under 18-she completed those, but said she preferred living in those places (from the real world). She later did a state-sponsored rehab that she was kicked out of. After a series of arrests, she went to a nicer rehab a couple of cities over. Now, she is living in a homeless shelter, still stealing money for drugs, and going in and out of jail. Her DOC is heroin.

My opinion is that we cushioned her too many times. Family members paid for Suboxone, gave her rides to addiction clinics, gave her rides to methadone clinic, etc. I think you've been doing the right thing with NC and not giving money. We made the mistake of giving her money in the early years, later we made the mistake of gift cards (can sell for drugs).

It's good you are letting him do the research on rehab. He can do the leg work. You don't need to check on him--he's an adult. You don't need to remind or encourage--just let things happen the way they will. I feel like we did too much to help my step-daughter --it went on for 8 years, or so. We are finally all done and on the same page, so that's how she ended up living at the shelter. We love her, and pray that she will some day make the decision to use all the knowledge from rehab to actually make a change. I will always believe there is hope (while she is alive) but we will not give money, rides, research rehabs, etc.
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Old 07-10-2013, 06:48 PM
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My son came home yesterday and said he has made an appointment with the doctor tomorrow to get the forms for the rehab filled out. He said he is not smoking any more and going through withdrawal. He asked if he could stay with us for a few days. I have not give him an answer but did not ask him to leave. He slept last night at our house. Not sure if I did the right thing but he does seem to be taking some baby steps towards sobriety.
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