musinglizzy

I've spent half the night looking for a group like this...thank you! Long story.

Good friend of mine. In her 40's. Married, two kids. Going through a divorce. I welcomed her into my home. But with her came a dog, two guinea pigs, and two kids part time. We are/were very close. I knew she drank a lot, but never saw her do it. Finally she admitted it to me one day. I told her I knew. She wanted help. Eventually she asked me to take her to detox. I was there every step of the way. Then intensive outpatient classes. I attended those classes on family nights, and for her graduation. I was amazed how well she was doing, and told her how proud I was every day. Now she's doing weekly AA and another women's meeting. I've noticed that she's started becoming much more distant lately, so Saturday night, I asked her about it. She very recently filed divorce papers. She's very recently quit drinking. So she has a lot on her plate. But I also said when she moved in that if there was every Anything on my mind, I'd let her know. She's feeling very guilty through all this. I've bent over backwards for her, in ways that I probably shouldn't have. Our house has been turned upside down with the extra pets, and two kids, one quite demanding of attention. I have a family of my own, they are being wonderful. So, like I said, I told her I felt she was becoming more distant. I asked why, was it something I've done. She talked about everything under the sun except WHAT I asked. She said our relationship is different when her kids are here because there's no time. They were just here 10 days straight (supposed to be one week on, one week off). So, never really got the issue resolved when I asked her about it.....but I thought, well,the following night, the boys would be going to their dad, so we'd have a few nights to talk. Nope. First night she left and didn't come home till after 11. Night after that she didn't come home till 3am (after leaving for work at like 7:30am the day before). And here she's doing it again. She left for work around 7:30 yesterday morning, and it's now 1:45 am here, and she's still not here.

I worry about her. She was working with a domestic abuse person who gave her some guidelines to follow. Keep a charged cell phone at all times (she didn't have a phone, I got her one). Let people know where you are. She's obviously not doing that. I'm very irritated. She's taking for granted that I'm caring for her pets. She's worrying me. And she knows she is. I have no clue where she is or what she's doing. Of course, I hate to think this way, but wonder if she's drinking again? She's only been sober about 6 weeks. But done GREAT during that time! All I asked is for her to be honest with me. Told her I would not be disappointed in her, we'll try again when the time is right if this time didn't work out.

I feel like perhaps I'm doing too much for her. I want her to start taking responsibility for her pets. I am giving her a safe, alcohol free place to live, with her pets, where she can have her kids, etc etc.

I'm sitting up just angry with her. Very angry. And I don't know if maybe I don't understand like I should. Divorce, and sobriety. Two big things.

I plan on starting to attend Al Anon meetings, hoping I can get some insight that way...... Do I have a right to be concerned about her when she's pulling this? I know she's an adult....but I'm caring for her animals, and she knows I'm worrying. I'm going crazy.

Crazed

Hi musinlizzy. Welcome to SR. The first thing you will learn here are the three C's.... You didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you cannot cure it. It is out of your hands. This includes any of the outcomes from her behavior.

You sound like a very caring friend. Regarding her, I would think that the only 2 things that would keep a recently sober individual away from home until 3 in the morning on a work night is either drinking or a new relationship. Neither are healthy for a freshly sober alcoholic.

Sorry you had to come here, but welcome!

musinglizzy

Thanks. I will remember those three c's. I just think she's being very inconsiderate in her staying out all hours of the night without a word, then being sweet when she wants her kids to come over. I'm feeling very used. I think I did TOO much for her.

theuncertainty

Welcome, Musinglizzy. It sounds like you understand that she's dealing with a lot: her addiction, divorce, DV issues. It's natural to worry, and to be angry that she's not taking more responsibility with her pets and letting you know she's safe.

Worrying about whether or not she's started drinking again... I understand that, too. I wanted AXH to let me know whether he was drinking or not. Expecting him to tell me just set me up for disappointment.

If her soon to be ex is the reason she's seeing a DV counsellor, it might help a little to find a way to let go of the expectation that her kids are there 1 week on, 1 week off, even if that's the court outlined schedule. My AXH is anything but consistent with regards to seeing our son.

I think waiting for the ideal time to discuss how the household duties are shared out won't work, and is probably a topic that can be addressed whether or not her kids are there. I don't really have anything to share regarding discussions about her sobriety and her relapse plan, AXH hasn't really gotten there; not that I know of, anyway.

It might be quiet on the boards with the holiday, but others will be by with more ESH. Hang in there.

theuncertainty

If you feel like you're being used, then it's definitely important to talk about how the household duties are being shared.

dandylion

Dear musing, It sounds like you know what you have to do. The longer you wait, the more resentment will build up---and more likely to blow up.

This is about boundrys--yes, she has a lot on her plate, but you are doing a LOT to help her and there is no excuse for her to be inconsiderate of you. Alcoholics are known for this kind of behavior. This is also enabling behavior on your part---just so you know. Any time you do something for someone else that they can and should do for themselves, it is enabling. Later, the tables turn and you will feel like the victim.

I have done the exact thing myself in the past with other people---and suffered the consequences. Now, I'm not saying not to help your friends--we all need help sometime--but, don't let them take advantage. Old Russian saying: "Offer your hand and they take the arm".

Sorry that a generous person like you is in this position--it sucks.

dandylion

musinglizzy

I agree. Resentment is completely what I feel right now. I'm trying to choose my words wisely.... here's what came out of my head that I could tell her. But she is very vulnerable right now, so I've been so careful...but think I'm done with that, because now she's hurting ME!

"You are being inconsiderate and rude. I have a right to be concerned for you, and you know damn well I am when you pull this ****.

You are going to need to take care of your guinea pigs every day and clean their cage when it gets to that point. I have responsibilities of my own, and wanted to help you out while you were trying to take care of yourself, but now, I see if you have time to be out all night, you have time to take care of your pets. The pigs would be dead if not for me.

I also would like to know what exactly you would like done with your dog when you are gone 18+ hours at a crack. Your responsibilities are no longer my responsibility. I wanted to help you out, but now that I'm feeling taken advantage of, I'm going to take care of my responsibilities, and let you take care of yours. So if you feel like being gone for 18 hours, that's fine, but you will need to come back and check on your pets first. Like any responsible adult would do. It's time to quit assuming I will do all of this for you. I'm done. I have always been happy you were here, but in a home, in a family, there are unspoken expectations of each other. You don't seem to care about that."

LexieCat

I think your feelings are very understandable.

I think what I would suggest is that you just tell her you have no wish to interfere with her life--if there is something she would like to discuss with you, you would be happy to do that, but that at this point the arrangement isn't working out. Give her a deadline to find other living arrangements.

I think going into a litany about how inconsiderate she is being won't do much good. I agree that it pretty much sounds as if she is either involved with a guy (hopefully not the abusive ex), or drinking. Either way, what she does is up to her, as long as it doesn't affect you. Clearly it IS affecting you, you don't like the situation, so it's up to you to change it. Note that I said change the situation, not change her.

You can tell her that you want your friendship to continue, but the living together at this point doesn't seem to be working out. If she is angry, she is angry. Not your problem. You owe it to yourself and your own family to put an end to this.

Hugs, you sound like an awesome friend.

cleaninLI

Lizzy, I agree with the previous posters. You really need to set some boundaries. I know you care about your friend and that is why you are helping her and worried about her. But your 1st and foremost responsibility is to you and your happiness. Let her know that you will not be caring for her animals anymore, in fact suggest that she find homes for them if she is unable to care for them the way they need to be cared for. If you would like to know why she is spending so much time away from home you could simply ask her, of course you never know if she is going to give you a truthful answer. Good luck to you and remember those 3 Cs.

ShootingStar1

Musinglizzy, you stepped up to the plate when your friend was in crisis and hit a home run to take care of her.

But the crisis is over, and it is time she takes responsibility for her own life, her own kids, her own pets, and her own living situation.

You are entitled to look after the needs of your family and yourself first.

I agree with Lexiecat, it is time to give her a deadline to find her own more semi-permanent arrangements. She has options to pursue about getting a court order to get back into her own home, especially if her husband was abusive.

I found Melodie Beattie's book Co-Dependent No More very helpful in learning what is my path to walk, and what belonged to my XAH. Before I read that, before I came to SoberRecovery, I thought it was my responsibility to take care of HIS needs, first, regardless of the consequences to me. It isn't.

Take care, we're all here for you,

ShootingStar1

Recovering2

If she is drinking again, there is nothing you can do about it. It's her decision. But consider that you make it easy for her to drink, etc when you take care of the responsibilities that she should be addressing. You also have to be careful about setting boundaries. The A will push those boundaries, and not respect you when you give in. Example: you tell her she has to take care of her pets. When she doesn't, are you going to let the pets starve or be neglected? I doubt it. So you feed the dog. The A knows you will.
You can't set boundaries for her, it won't work. But you CAN set boundaries for yourself. How much are you willing to deal with? You're being taken advantage of. Lexie is right. The healthiest thing you can do for you and your family is give her a date to make other living arrangements. You helped her get out, now it's time she helps herself.

musinglizzy

All of your thoughts have been wonderful for me. I only found this site shortly before I posted my first post, and already have been eager to check every chance I get.

I guess I just wasn't sure if it was RIGHT for me to expect that she lets me know she's safe, especially staying out all hours of the night. I got her a cell phone. On my family plan. So she has no excuse.

Her stuff has only just started....she has three major things going on right now, one of them recovering from drinking, the divorce, and a legal issue regarding her husband (he accused her of DV). I wanted to give her a safe place to stay and work through all of this. And she's been here for two months and it's been ok. Now, something's changed....

I finally went to bed at 3:30 am, and my husband got up at 6am, so she got home somewhere in between that time. It is almost 2pm and she is still sleeping. I was tempted to go banging on her door knowing it might be my only opportunity to talk to her...but I don't have the heart for that, either.

I am going to talk to her today, no matter what it takes.

wicked

It sounds as if she is not honoring you and your home.
She has no respect for you or your family.
Going out for 18 hours without a cell phone, is irresponsible, childish and disrespectful
of you and your concern for her.

You have been the most excellent of friends.
You helped a friend out of a very difficult and scary situation,
but has come to an end now.
If she can be gone for 18 hours at a time and not respond to a direct question from you,
I think you know what she is up to.

The thing is, it really does not matter what she is doing,
I am concerned about you and your family.
You deserve your house and family back the way it was before this train wreck moved in.

She has had help from you, from DV experts, from AA meetings and women's meetings.
It is time for her to do it on her own.
Give her a date, and she might expect you to give her some kind of explanation,
but you owe her nothing.

You, in my opinion, have gone above and beyond the call of friendship.
If you are concerned about hurting her or not being understanding enough,
ask yourself how concerned has she been about hurting you, worrying you,
displacing your family and making you the default animal care taker.
(I would do the same thing, I love animals.)

I admire you so much for helping your friend.
She was in a terrible place, an alcoholic being abused by her husband.
She seems to have NO IDEA how lucky she is to have you as a friend.

But the time has come to differentiate between helping and enabling.

Keep coming back for support and going to AlAnon.

I am grateful there are people like you in this world.

Beth

PS
Can I be your friend?
I will not abuse your generosity of spirit.

musinglizzy

LOL, of course, Beth. No one can ever have TOO many friends.

I counted. I have TWENTY SEVEN animals here to care for. That doesn't include the fish, but includes hers. It's time for her to take care of her own responsibilities, and time for ME to quit holding her hand. We love having her here. But now she's going through this...I don't know what. She's so sensitive and vulnerable, I have always tried to be very careful what I say. But I'm going to sit here until she gets out of bed, and have a talk with her before she's able to sneak off. I think she wants her kids here today, so she'll have to talk to me anyway.

And, she has a cell phone, but chooses not to use it in situations like this, or answer me. I GOT her the cell phone on our family plan. Because for her safety, we all agreed she needed one. I honestly believe in my heart she is doing this to make a point....she's doing this knowing I'm here worrying and curious what she's up to. That's a mind game I'm quite sure, but I honestly believe she has considered what she's doing to my mental health, and chooses to continue. I'm done with games now.

I love her with all my heart, but it just hurts too much now. I will eventually be deleting this post if it's possible. I notice that non members can read the posts...and I just want to be careful.

musinglizzy

It breaks my heart. She detoxed in a hospital. I was there after work, for 7-8 hours a day. One night spent the night with her. She thanked me for "saving her life." I told her no, she saved her own life. She said she never would have done this if she was not at my place. I feel good about that. We don't drink. None in this house. I know her failure isn't my problem, if that ends up happening...ugh, I know I can't save her. She's pushing me away.

dandylion

Dear musing---It doesn't sound like mind games to me as much as straight-out irresponsible and immature behavior. She sound like a teenager--though I know she is not.

I realize that you are too close and too entangled with her situation to see this as clearly as you ought to. No doubt you have co-dependent tendencies as do most of us here. You are teaching her how to treat you---and you are teaching her the wrong things!

I am sorry to speak so bluntly, but, I know that you want honest feedback.

Good luck with your discussion. Remember to use "I" statements--sh e will be less defensive.

Let us k now how it goes, if you will.

dandylion

musinglizzy

dandylion.... I'm thankful for your bluntness, because I have been thinking of that myself. I have gone out of my way way too far, done too much. Of course I thought I was doing the right thing. I'm learning now that it was quite wrong.

LexieCat

Well, it might not have been "too much" when she was in crisis and working on getting sober. Now, though, it looks like she is ready to sink or swim on her own.

It sounds to me more like typical selfish alcoholic behavior than a "mind game" per se. Hopefully, if she stays sober and works a program, that will go away. But you don't need it in your life right now.

wicked

Thank you! I hope you can hang around and talk some more.
this is a great place to learn about boundaries.

Beth

Justfor1

There is a old saying that, "nothing good happens after midnight". I think that is especially true with newly sober people. There are few places even open at 3AM. The exception, of course, is the bars/clubs.