Embarrassed to ask but...

Old 07-02-2013, 11:12 AM
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Embarrassed to ask but...

Okay, I feel weird posting this; I know how ridiculous this is going to sound but I can't think of a better spot on SR to post it. It's about boundaries. Specifically, how to deal with the fact that your boundaries are going to get crossed when you can't do anything external about it. The implication here is that I can do something about it internally - i.e., change my thinking.

My wife has been the victim of sexual assault. As a result, there was a lot of damage and she had to have a hysterectomy. The fact is, she got a puppy just afterwards and for her, it became the next child she was never going to have. It really turned out to be very healing for her. This whole bit might seem like tmi but it plays into my situation.

The dog is two years old now and it's official, he spent way too much time in the birth canal. He is mentally challenged. My wife has trained dogs in the past for developmentally disabled folks and she specialized in two breeds - this dog is one of them. We've also taken him to an outside trainer and no luck either - he just doesn't have the mental capacity to learn.

He's a 100 pounds and overall has a sweet disposition if you like neurotic. He licks incessantly and I've told him no every time for over a year...I've gotten to the point where I've just given up. I timed him for this post and I got licked 342 times in a five minute period - that's more than once a second! I hate it. He gets up on the bed every night. Every night he's put off the bed. Every night he finds his way back on the bed until one or both of us gets kicked off and ends up sleeping on the couch because we know he won't stop climbing up there. He jumps up on us when we come home despite two years of trying to get him to stop - he's ripped clothes, torn flesh (accidentally) and even knocked one of my teeth out.

Anyway - point is, under any other circumstances, I would rehome this dog but he means way too much to my wife. To her, it really is the son she's never going to have. So he stays, but he has to be the only thing in life that gets under my skin regularly. I know how to place a boundary but I don't know how to ignore the fact that my boundaries get crossed all the time - even though it isn't intentional. Idea's?
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Old 07-02-2013, 11:18 AM
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If you wife tolerates his behavior, the dog is getting mixed messages.
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Old 07-02-2013, 12:14 PM
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that's tough...the dog could indeed have some issues...at the very least sounds like some separation anxiety with a dose of maybe under exercised? just too much pent up energy. that means that somebody needs to be walking him a lot, playing ball, off leash area if he's ok with other dogs, playing in the yard. different activities to help stimulate the brain.

as carl says tho, if both "parents" aren't on the same page....too many mixed messages. it's really not the dog's fault...he didn't pick you guys, your wife picked him. as a larger breed he's going to stay an adolescent for a lot longer...our American Bulldog turned 3 last Christmas and is now starting act sort of like an adult dog...calmer, better listening skills. one of the things we tell people when they come over, cuz our dogs have poor greeting skills still must admit, is don't stop right in the front door, no eye contact, eyes up, just keep moving. they WANT the interaction, even if it's negative...they are trying to ENGAGE the human.

all i got right now...i do feel for ya tho......
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Old 07-02-2013, 12:28 PM
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Dog crate for bed time?
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Old 07-02-2013, 02:22 PM
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^^^^^^^^^

What Hydrogirl said, but not a wire mesh one.

Get him, I believe it is the 700 Vari Kennel Air Kennel. It may take a bit for him to get used to it, make it fun to go into with treats and feed him in the kennel. Then at bedtime, hopefully the kennel will be placed where he can see y'all (at least try that first) and put him in the kennel for the night. If seeing y'all is still setting him off, then put the crate in a different room in the house, put him in it, latch the door and go to bed.

No matter his mixed signals, or whatever, the crate will become HIS CAVE.

As to his licking on you, obviously he has become used to the word NO and it is just a buzzing in his ear. Try a loud noise or get canned air and spray it at him every time and turn your back and walk away. He will eventually get the message, IF and it is a big IF you and your wife are on the same page on this. There has to be repetition and consistency from both of you.

J M H O

Hope the above helps.

Love and hugs,

PS: What breed is he???
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Old 07-02-2013, 02:31 PM
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Taken from my surveillance camera in legna’s bedroom.

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Old 07-02-2013, 04:18 PM
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Close the bedroom door?
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Old 07-02-2013, 04:44 PM
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Thanks for all the suggestions and the laughs... cynical one's photo almost sent me into cardiac arrest.

To answer questions, he is a black lab with some undetermined amount of great dane. As for closing the bedroom door, he ate it. Really. It's been replaced but I can't afford to keep buying doors.

As for the crate: he ate his way out of that too. Yes, really. It took both of us to get him in here and we did every night and every time we left the home when he couldn't come with us. It took him two weeks to gouge enough of the plastic out of the bottom to get his teeth into the act. From there it was only a matter of an hour. He is very food oriented and will do anything to get some treats - except go in the crate. I know that dogs eventually learn to love the crate as it becomes his space but this one didn't. We now put him in the laundry room (metal door) when we have to leave him. It's definitely separation anxiety - he won't eat, sleep, drink or move until we open the door and let him out. Then he'll take whatever treats, toys, etc. with him on the way out and then eat them but only in our presence.

And the wife and I are on the same page pretty much - I mean, at this point (almost two years) we've come to terms with the fact that he's 'different' and pretty much figure we got what we've got. I gave the abridged version on the licking thing but yes, in addition to no we've tried a whistle, a spray bottle with water, a spray bottle with vinegar, tried slathering my arms and legs with hot sauce, etc. etc. I'm sure I've forgotten some things we've tried.

His activity level is through the roof...but he will not or can not entertain himself. We have a huge fenced yard and my wife or I will go out there and play with him - he gets at least two hours a day from us - and we've got a friend whose daughter adores him and they have similar energy levels. They can play together from sun up to sundown and neither will stop except he'll stop to throw up when he's over-exerted himself and then go again. She spends two days a week with him now too - as a matter of fact, last night he had a sleep over at her house.

I'm on the computer now, it's 100 degree's outside and so outside is not going to happen but he is literally curled up under my computer chair. By curled up I mean, there are five legs on the computer chair with casters...you know the type right? He's wrapped himself around the base of the chair and is laying on all five legs of the chair so he's touching me...he must touch someone at all times.

Anywho, he is an enigma to both my wife and I, and maybe we are missing something but I'm done trying to find out how to fix him and decided that I'd work on fixing me. Acceptance is the answer to all my problems et al.... I'm just having trouble giving up the boundaries willingly.

OH! And my business voice scares the heck out of him. Which means I can't talk on the phone in the house because he cowers and tries to crawl between my legs and move with me. I'm use a cane and all he succeeds in doing is tripping me. Before we read too much into my voice scaring him, so do balloons, butterflies, flowers, the coffeepot, etc. Did I mention he was neurotic? Anywho, he's not going to change...cause I've given up and relegated myself to being inconvenienced for the next six to eight years or so. I guess I'm still trying to come to terms with that though because I know how to accept things I find unpleasant and yet I'm not letting go... I probably need to work a step. sigh
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Old 07-02-2013, 04:48 PM
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Oh, and cynical one... that photo is now my desktop background. Thanks
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Old 07-02-2013, 04:55 PM
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It's situations like this that make me glad I'm not married. I feel for you, man.
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Old 07-02-2013, 05:00 PM
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My sister often cares for very mentally damaged dogs--she has lost a lot of furniture

What has worked for some of her dogs is a plush stuffed animal toy. These dogs then have a 'baby' to take care of and who comforts them. She has begun to be able to have furniture again...
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Old 07-02-2013, 05:48 PM
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This thread has really made me giggle although I'm sure it's not funny to you Legna. I had a cat that was oxygen deprived at birth and I seriously had to reintroduce it to its food bowl every single day of its life. You know the expression "the lights are on but nobody's home". That cat seriously spent it's days thinking about nothing. At any rate....You might try reversing a baby monitor so you can talk to him from another room while he's in his crate....for bits at a time so he gets reassured (if possible). I've also heard dogs that incessantly lick can be depressed. The vets do have anti depressants available. I'm sorry you are dealing with this but I'm glad you found us. Wink wink.
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Old 07-02-2013, 05:59 PM
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Is there any medication that maybe could take the "edge" off his anxiety?
Maybe that is completely out of the question.
How about for a short enough period of time, so he can get some of the training messages?
The combination of a great dane and a labrador?
Wow, sounds like he got the heightened and exaggerated lap dog and retriever stuff
all twisted together.
You sound like a very calm and steady person.
Amazing really.

Beth

I really hope you find a way to help this poor dog get a grip.
Does having the dog help your wife at all?
With her recovery from the assault?
I pray it does.
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Old 07-02-2013, 07:01 PM
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awww, he sounds like Ferdinand the Bull..didn't mind being a bull, just didn't want to act like one. but that's just me reading about him being afraid of butterflies, not living with him underfoot and insecure.

all I ever wanted was a cat. i like cats. i had just left a husband with the two most annoying dogs ever...a mentally defective jack Russell terrier and a Papillion that was to be my dog but HATED me...now here i am, 11 years later, different husband and what do we have? two dogs. still highly annoying......but.............i LOVE these dogs. yes they are undertrained, yes bucky barks way too much at everything....yes della has issues with dogs and thus we try to refrain from having people and their dogs over - this includes my own daughter and her dog Kayla. Kayla and Bucky get along fine...they look like twins - but Della??? we do not trust her off leash with kayla over...i do NOT want MY dog killing or injuring HER dog.

della blew her knee out a couple years ago. we went with plateau tibial leveling surgery, at a vet over 70 miles away, 8 am appointments on our Saturdays (get up at 5am), up for an assessment, up to drop her off for the surgery, back up to get her the next day after the surgery, and a few follow ups. once she got home she was on extreme movement restriction. cone of shame on, they had reconstructed her knee and installed a titanium plate with screws....

we moved the matress from the guest room to the living room and i spent 3 months sleeping on the mattress with della rose, so she could sleep with people and not have to climb on anything. and i could get her outside to poddy if need be. she could not go outside unless leashed. so if it was 4 pm OR 2 am, you had to take her out until she found her spot. she had her surgery in October, so this was thru the fall/winter months. rain, wind, snow? you take her out.

we also had to keep the dogs from interacting too much, bucky lost his playmate. we had baby gates up. we went into quarantine and told people not to come over. she needed as calm and predicatable an environment as she could if she was going to heal properly.

six months. six months before dr rourke said she can GO now. but take it easy. six months before she AND bucky could be outside at the same time. before she could do anything but walk slowly. if not for the scar on the inside of her leg, you would not know there was ANYTHING wrong with her, or ever had been. she is incredibly fast. she loves to swim. she IS today a bulldog...an enormously powerful beautiful beast of a dog.

if you WANT you will find a way to make this work. if you can find a way to accept that this mess of a canine is part of the collective, you can find a way to adapt. kind of like our 4 burner electric stove...one of the burners conked out a year or so ago...we aren't ready to replace, so we ACCEPTED the stove for what it was and learned to adapt. price of toilet paper goes up, we accept, we adapt. LOL
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Old 07-02-2013, 07:11 PM
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It is not the dog's fault. If he is mentally challenged then he still deserves you commitment, love and care. That takes special people and it sounds like he may have been lucky enough to find them. Everything you mentioned that is bothering you sounds like a dog trying to express love for you....albeit in a frustrating fashion. Unfortunately our dogs only get a short time with us. Please continue to work with your pet and make them good years.
Lost my 17 year old dog over 18 months ago and still ache when I think about it or type anything on this topic. Thanks for caring for your pet and letting him care for your wife.
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Old 07-02-2013, 08:50 PM
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Sounds like a big silly goof of a pup. We had a German Shepherd that I threatened with the pound for the first two years (kidding of course).....he was "slow to mature". But he settled down and became the most amazing companion ever. I swear he had a bigger vocabulary than me and could read minds. Maybe your guy is just "slow to mature". lol

Dogs are as quirky as humans. Gotta love 'em.

I hope you find acceptance and can learn to live in harmony with your special fella.

gentle hugs
ke
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Old 07-02-2013, 10:09 PM
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How does your dog do around other dogs? Often you can pair a younger dog with one a few years older, a bit more mature (but has to have a playful outgoing personality still) and the younger one will learn by watching the behaviors of the other. They will play together, and cuddle together and neither will be alone. It can help a lot with anxiety too. The big thing is finding the right temperament to match your 2 year old pup, so the older dog isn't frustrated and unhappy.
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Old 07-02-2013, 10:19 PM
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Do you ever watch The Dog Whisperer? He would probably suggest that you walk him daily. You could get one of those hiking bags for him and weigh him down. I know you play with him in the yard, but walks are good for dogs. I understand that may be challenging. My bf's mom had a Rottweiler, and she was a handful during walks. I had to hold the leash tightly with both hands in case she saw a squirrel.

My grandmother had a really challenging dog. She had been taken away from her mother early, so never really learned dog manners. She was a mess, but we loved her anyway. She had a licking problem, too.

It sounds like the dog is good for your wife. Have you talked to the vet about it? Doggy Prozac could help the seperation anxiety. Is the dog neutered?? That sometimes helps.

Hopefully, he'll mellow with age. I am a long way off from getting a dog, but when I'm ready, it'll probably be an adult. The puppy stage just seems like too much work! We just have cats now, which seem like less work and less destruction. I think dogs need more attention. Our cats entertain themselves. Good luck!
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Old 07-02-2013, 10:45 PM
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Okay, one more dog story... but first the questions:

Yup neutered very early. We walk him too of course but with a training collar and he will hurt himself pulling against it. And yes, the dog is my wife's boy...they help each other. He loves playing with other dogs - all other dogs...but he lets every male dog hump him no matter how small...we've had a dachshund try to mount him, and he just lets them...we're thinking of getting him a rainbow sweater. Actually tonight I tried using my business phone voice while playing with him and giving him treats...it actually seemed like it might have an effect - he's confused, but he's always like that.

Okay, story time. We lived on the reservation and tied Fluffy (yeah, that's his name) up to a run in the yard to try and get him to play by himself back before we realized he wouldn't. Our cat Cujo (yes, we're very confused in our house) who is the most loving even tempered cat in the world (imo) suddenly went nuts clawing at the screen and screeching. I was shocked into motionless for a second and then went to look out the window. Before I got there she had clawed her way through the screen and out. Forget the window - I flew to the door now.

A black bear is coming for the dog and the cat attacked him - sent him hightailing it out of there and she just came back and sat in front of the dog (just out of reach - she's avoids him cause he's clumsy and steps on her) till I could get there and bring them both in.

She's like me...doesn't much care for him sometimes but he's family.
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Old 07-02-2013, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by legna View Post
Okay, one more dog story... but first the questions:

Yup neutered very early. We walk him too of course but with a training collar and he will hurt himself pulling against it. And yes, the dog is my wife's boy...they help each other. He loves playing with other dogs - all other dogs...but he lets every male dog hump him no matter how small...we've had a dachshund try to mount him, and he just lets them...we're thinking of getting him a rainbow sweater. Actually tonight I tried using my business phone voice while playing with him and giving him treats...it actually seemed like it might have an effect - he's confused, but he's always like that.

Okay, story time. We lived on the reservation and tied Fluffy (yeah, that's his name) up to a run in the yard to try and get him to play by himself back before we realized he wouldn't. Our cat Cujo (yes, we're very confused in our house) who is the most loving even tempered cat in the world (imo) suddenly went nuts clawing at the screen and screeching. I was shocked into motionless for a second and then went to look out the window. Before I got there she had clawed her way through the screen and out. Forget the window - I flew to the door now.

A black bear is coming for the dog and the cat attacked him - sent him hightailing it out of there and she just came back and sat in front of the dog (just out of reach - she's avoids him cause he's clumsy and steps on her) till I could get there and bring them both in.

She's like me...doesn't much care for him sometimes but he's family.
That's a beautiful story Legna. Thank goodness for Cujo !
I would suggest a spayed female dog to come and be Fluffy's new companion !
But it sounds like your doggy just wants attention and affection regardless of where it comes from.
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