mick3580

I don't have to look at the consequences of me trying to manage my own life in this step. This step is only about alcoholism. Nowhere in the discussion of step one does it talk about life being unmanageable outside of the context of the one problem of lack of power over alcohol. Life had become unmanageable because I couldn't manage my decision to not take the first drink. I was also a failure at running my life but I only looked at that in step 3 because the book only asked me to do it then. I hope someone can relate to this!

GreenEggsAndHam

I actually was stuck on the unmanageable part - the wording.

For me, what it ended up coming down to was that I could not manage my life without alcohol, thus making my life unmanageable.

sugarbear1

Step one is also fully conceding to one's innermost being that they are alcoholic and can't drink.

I like this: "that I could not manage my life without alcohol, thus making my life unmanageable."

paul99

My unmanageability in my life needn't have anything to do directly with alcohol per se. The unmanageability are the feelings, causes and conditions - mentally, emotionally, spiritually - that bring me to point of wanting to pick up a bottle. The DUI's, jail cells, hospital visits, etc. are just a consequence of my drinking large amounts of booze. The true unmanageability lies deep beneath the surface and no matter how much I try to "think things through" or "try to figure it all out", every flowchart brings me back to alcohol. When I realized that, that drinking wasn't the problem, it was me, then I was also able to see that I was powerless over alcohol. In that regard, I see why these two parts are separate and yet together in this step.

GreenEggsAndHam

Great perspectives.

I also had to consider that my husband has been managing a huge chunk of my life - things that I have put on him because I couldn't handle doing it. So, my life wasn't falling apart at the seams, but that was in large part due to help that I was receiving from him.

The BB talks about this but in the reverse (male/female). We went over it my women's group and big lightbulb went off for me.

Boleo

It was not until I quit trying to manage my sobriety, my emotions and everything else in my life that I had the spiritual awakening that solved nearly everything for me (except my bank account).

mick3580

To further explain my original post, I want to point out that step one in the book only talks about a problem drinking and not being able to stop and a problem with not starting. It makes no mention of screwed up consequences of our drinking or screwed up consequences of just living-it doesn't mention the life management problem in the absence of alcoholism until step 3.

wiscsober

thanks OP....I think I understand not having to look at the consequences, but it is important knowing what unmanageable means.

As part of my recovery foundation -- or three-legged stool -- it was important I understand the nature of alcoholism and either accepting if I am or not, and knowing what areas of my life are unmanageable which makes my life as a whole unmanageable.

As someone mentioned their husband managing their lives, I see that family, police, social workers, doctors and nurses, had to step in for temporary damage control and management issues.

I think a look at the consequences should be thoroughly addressed in the 4th/5th, 8th/9th.

DayTrader

I believe it does......

1. powerless over alcohol (once I start and from re-starting) could be argued, though I won't make the argument, is ONLY in effect until one is "recovered." That we've only lost power and choice up until recovery... Again, that's a belief I've heard shared and have had myself....at times.

2. Unmanagability..... it's covered on pages 44 and 45 of "We Agnostics" and a little more on p 52. Since I know you Mick, I'll paraphrase some stuff cuz I know you already get it....
A. if my life was manageable, even in sobriety, then I'd be able to just manage it right onto the spiritual path - experience shows me VERY few ppl manage to stay on the path. We all seem to have detours from time to time.
B. If I could manage to work this darn program "the way it should be worked" I wouldn't have to keep making those damn 8th step lists and making new amends.....ugh. (lol).
C. When I look honestly, I'm nowhere near my "ideal" level of faith in God.
D. I still haven't found a way to ALWAYS tap into that HP and apply it to my reality / life.......even though I know it's there.....I seem to forget it.......or even seem to just ignore it in favor of my own supposed power.
E. Even on some of my best days, I'm still having trouble with relationships, only partially able to control my emotional nature, still prey (though much less) to misery and depression, lmao - still can't make a G-D living, and still feel pretty damn useless a lot.......

At times in my recovery, I've had a much stronger experience with part two of step 1 than part 1. While that helped motivate me to do some growing..... FOR ME.... I need to remember BOTH parts. When I pick just one to work on, I tend to totally forget the other part and start going backwards in the areas where the "forgotten part" applies to my life.

.....just my thoughts.....

tomsteve

"Nowhere in the discussion of step one does it talk about life being unmanageable outside of the context of the one problem of lack of power over alcohol."


when I read the big book, I find it in 3 chapters( the doctors opinion, there is a solution, and more about alcoholism) , plus many more areas of the BB.

Mark75

I just think a willingness to look at that unmanageability thing is important. While much of mine was brought on by alcohol and pills, I found it useful to look at whether there was unmanageability outside ... Or perhaps even underlying... the addictions.

I don't know if it serves any useful purpose if I assert to myself that my life was unmanageable simply because I took too many pills and drank too much. Which is of course what Mike was getting at, I think, and getting on into the housecleaning steps after 3... What would be the point then, really, of inventory and change?

DayTrader

Right on Mark..... that's what I was, alluding to. You put it much more succinctly.

One area I've noticed a lot of growth in over the past couple years has been in the acceptance of current unmanageability in my life. Alternatively, one could say I'm becoming less of a perfectionist (and for me, being a perfectionist usually involved little to no God what-so-ever).

There's a fine line between rolling over and just accepting everything and being able to accept my present, as it is no, for what it is now......and still striving to do better but at the same time not kicking my own butt for falling short. It's a wonderfully freeing grey area that I never knew existed.

mick3580

All three of those chapters relate to step one. Yet they do not address the umnanageable life outside of the scope of having lost the power of choice in drink. The chapters you cited only talk about unmandgeability in this particular context.

Grungehead

spiritual malady = untreated alcoholism (drinking or not) = unmanageable life

spiritual malady overcome = straighten out mentally and physically = manageable life

mick3580

The spiritual malady, as I understand it is the essential cause of alcoholism. Secondly, the spiritual malady and how to address it are only explicitly stated in the step four discussion. A person who is going through the twelve steps of aa does not have to admit their spiritual malady in step one. Read chapter three and see if either Fred or Jim were asked to do this. Fred only had to concede that a)he was alcoholic and b)"really licked this time."

Grungehead

I agree. I was just stating what I believe is the root cause of life becoming unmanageable for the alcoholic. It is because he's an alcoholic LOL. If he didn't have a spiritual malady he wouldn't be an alcoholic. I believe that if you admit you are powerless over alcohol the unmanageable part comes as part of the deal (no extra charge LOL).

UncleMeat69

Page 60, 2nd. Paragraph:

Our description of the alcoholic = The Doctor's Opinion

The Chapter to the Agnostic, and our personal adventures before = Bill's Story & More about Alcoholism.

Make clear three pertinent ideas:

(a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives = Step 1

(b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism = Step 2

(c) That God could and would if He were sought = Step 2

Being convinced (of a, b and c above) we were at Step 3.

When do we do Step 3 ? As soon as we are convinced of Steps 1 & 2. In the original manuscript, Bill W. had written
"If you are not convinced, re-read the first 60 pages. If still not convinced after that, throw the book away....."

mick3580

Im am alcoholic and cannot manage my desire to drink. That's why in step 3 it says just what do we mean by that(our third step decision) and just what do we do? The first requirement is that we be convinced that any life run on self will can hardly be a success. But you're saying we already addressed that in the abc's? Alcoholism is a two fold illness, making life unmanageable. The cause of this problem is spiritual malady/separation from God.

UncleMeat69

I believe that Bill W. was trying to put the nails in the coffin, so to speak,
that self-will and self-knowledge are useless tools for any real alcoholic
to try to employ against alcoholism. Only a higher power can bring about
recovery. Carl Jung stated as much in his remarks to Rowland Hazzard
in 1931 as indicated on page 26 of the BB regarding managing the illness.

My experience in sobriety has been that I can't manage my life unless I practice
principles of the program. When I don't my life tends to spin out of control
until I get back to basics. I believe a key to this is in the fact that Bill W.
wrote the 12X12 for recovered alky's who were still struggling. In a letter
of October 5, 1953 he said:

"At first I was dubious whether anyone would care for it, save oldtimers
who had begun to run into life's lumps in other areas than alcohol."

Page 356 of "Pass it On."

This is also another reason I believe newcomers going thru the steps for
the first time should not do it with the 12X12, but rather the BB. That is
like going to college and skipping High School...IMHO

mick3580

I see your point. But if I'm working with a newcomer and they understand that once they start drinking, they can't stop and then....they can't not start, the officially pass step one with flying colors!!